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Volume #0377 January 25, 2000
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ONE WORLD - ONE RECORD COMPANY
Subject: Just very good vocal groups
Received: 01/25/00 1:42 am
From: Joseph Scott
To: Spectropop!
Hi all,
Jamie wrote:
"We seem to have reached a general conclusion that at
least some of the 'sunshine pop' artists were really just
very good vocal groups who were riding a wave. I contended
that many simply had the fortune to land a record deal, get
superb vocal arrangements, and record what was at the time
contemporary vocal pop. The result was a psychedelic 60s
tinged take on what groups like Chordettes, Four Freshmen,
Lettermen etc. had been doing for years. Obviously the
arrangments on any of these records didn't happen in a
rehearsal hall full of stoned hippy guitar players, no
matter what the record jacket might lead you to believe."
These are very interesting issues. Here is my take on some
of this stuff:
Young people always want to perceive their music as very
distinct from their parents'. (Whether it really is or not
is completely irrelevant to that.) E.g. in the late '50s
Elvis didn't put a sticker on his records saying "Your
parents will enjoy this too because my pianist Dudley
Brooks used to be Benny Goodman's pianist and is playing
in basically the same style he did with him" -- it would
have been true, but it would have been very foolish
marketing. Similarly, Jagged Little Pill does not have a
sticker from Alanis reading "Your parents will enjoy this
too because I hired organist Benmont Tench, who was
playing on Tom Petty hits before you were born" -- again,
that wouldn't turn the kids on one bit. From generation to
generation, this aspect of marketing never changes.
Now, one could ask "Was Dudley Brooks an authentic
'rocker'?" "Is Benmont Tench an authentic 'Generation
Xer'?" In my opinion these are meaningless questions --
musicians either play well or don't. The rest is
marketing.
Now the way the above applies to the '60s, I think, is
this. As in every other decade, the way to market records
to young people was to tell them what they wanted to hear.
Young people generally wanted to hear about something
vaguely like a "counterculture" and all that good stuff.
(These things never change.) Magazines such as Rolling
Stone played into this. The rock groups played into this.
Basically everybody played into this. As a result, the big
question became, Who is one of us (the young, the
counterculture, yada yada yada) and who is just pretending
to be one of us, but is really one of THEM, our parents'
age group, those hopeless insensitive bores? And that big
question has never really gone away in the minds of most.
Many people still often tend to judge Simon and Garfunkel
and Janis Joplin and Bob Thiele and the Byrds and the
Mothers and the Association and everyone else largely on
the basis of their perceived street cred etc. (or, I
should say, how their supposed street cred etc. was
marketed)!
The funny thing is if you try to actually rationally apply
those "street cred etc." criteria retroactively to '60s
acts, it just doesn't work. Who smoked more pot, Zappa or
Simon? Gee, THAT can't be what makes music good, can it,
whether the artists have an ingenuous, serious commitment
to drugs? :-) Who hung out with Coltrane, Thiele or
Joplin? Oh wait, never mind. :-)
And it can't be jumping on a bandwagon, because one can
easily argue that e.g. the Byrds were a close-harmony
vocal group who decided to "ride the wave" of
folk-rock-psych. Does that makes their c. '66 stuff
invalid in some way? Certainly not, according to my ears!
(Indeed the whole notion of supposed bandwagon jumping is
very tenuous, because musicians ALWAYS influence one
another, and playing in a style that is currently popular
-- just about everyone does that, if they want to sell any
product.)
Basically, this (imaginary) who's authentic/who's not
divide is all about the younger generation (as of the '60s
) vs. the older generation (as of the '60s). When did
Simon and Garfunkel lose their "street cred" in the minds
of many? When a ton of older people happened to love "
Bridge Over Troubled Water." Why do many people consider
Donovan more hip than Mel Torme? Because he's YOUNGER.
That's IT. (Note that Torme's cover of "Sunshine Superman,"
which is excellent, has been marketed on CD as camp,
which has nothing to do with reality and is in poor taste.
Donovan himself says he was influenced by the Torme-era
jazz singers, and it shows.)
So what I'm trying to lead up to here is that I think,
aurally, Jackie Ward is Jackie Ward, whether she's singing
with Anita Kerr or anyone else. Know what I mean? There's
this perceived distinction between (1) the vocal groups
who were marketed in the '60s to older people and (2) the
vocal groups who were marketed in the '60s to younger
people -- that's what it comes down to, and it is written
right into decades of rock and roll literature (which has
mostly been controlled by baby boomers, makes sense eh?)
like you wouldn't believe -- and the distinction basically
was NEVER there in the first place.
Which is why Brian Wilson listened to Four Freshmen
records (and I'm sure glad he did!).
Best to everybody,
Joseph Scott
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: examples of jazz vocal harmony pop
Received: 01/25/00 1:42 am
From: DJ JimmyB
To: Spectropop!
In a message dated 1/23/0 10:59:38 AM, you wrote:
>but I wonder if there aren't examples of jazz vocal
>harmony pop that would similarly appeal to fans of
>sunshine pop.
Singers Unlimited, Sergio Mendes, Chris Montez, The
Sandpipers...all crossed into jazzy turf. Also don't
forget Johnny Mann Singers, Ray Conniff Singers, even a
touch of We Five....more??
Jimmy Botticelli
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: unison versus harmony
Received: 01/25/00 1:42 am
From: Nat Kone
To: Spectropop!
>...examples of jazz vocal harmony pop that would
>similarly appeal to fans of sunshine pop. Something like
>the Randy van Horne Singers doing Bacharach and Brian
>Wilson covers. That is a list I would like to see
>alongside David's comprehensive soft pop list.
I have a little section in my collection with the Kirby
Stone Four, the Hi-Lo's, the Double Six of Paris and a
bunch of other things like that, including Ray Conniff's
"S" records, like "S'Wonderful". I don't know if the KS4
lasted into the sixties and made hippy records - I haven't
seen any - but certainly the Ray Conniff Singers did, along
with similar aggregations by Percy Faith, Billy Vaughn, etc.
But it seems to me that on Ray Conniff's fifties records,
the singers were really doing something. There were
arrangements and harmonies happening. In the sixties, it
seems all they did was sing along in unison. And this is
true of virtually all the "choir" records I have from that
period. The Living Voices - and their classic version of
"Like A Rolling Stone" - the Doodletown Pipers, the Enoch
Light Singers, the Ray Charles Singers. I don't know why
they felt they had to work less hard when they were
singing sixties tunes but it seems they did. And this is
sort of why I don't include the Lettermen in "soft
sunshine pop" though certainly they're related. I don't
know enough about harmony to comment on their arrangements
but there's not a lot going on there. Not that some soft
pop doesn't also include a lot of "unison" singing. Anyway,
here and there I have found a few "choir" records with a
bit more going on. Not enough for a list but for a short
paragraph.
There's the Singers Unlimited. They have an association
with the Hi-Lo's and bring a kind of soft jazzy harmony to
bear. I can recommend the one record I have by them "Try to
Remember". But I suspect all their records would qualify.
The Anita Kerr Singers are a cut above. They have a record
"All you need is love" with a lovely version of the Bee
Gees' "Holiday". Keith Textor, who made a Stereo Action
record, made at least one "hippy" record, "Measure the
Valleys". Then there's Hugo Montenegro. His "Good
Vibrations" is one of my all-time faves and he made a
bunch of records in that period with similar vocal
arrangements and moogy instrumental backups. (I can't
recommend all of them as Chuck knows.) I'm not sure this
helps you since these are LP's and I'd be surprised if
much of this had been (legitimately) reissued. Then again,
I'm often surprised this way.
Nat
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Re: Soft Pop Which *Isn't* On CD
Received: 01/25/00 1:41 am
From: David Bash
To: Spectropop!
> Also, while I am on the subject, I would like to see your
> list of soft pop which *isn't* on CD, David. I bet that
> list includes more Gary Zekely material besides the Yellow
> Balloon, and Michael Brown's Montage album too.
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Jamie LePage
> n.p. Introducing the Four King Cousins
Hi Jamie,
Well, since you asked...here it is, keeping in mind that
this list is not all-inclusive, mainly because I haven't
heard everything (like those King Cousins discs, for
example). And yes, Jamie, you were quite right in your
guesses. :-)
#1 Album-Chris & Peter Allen (Mercury, 1968)*
The American Revolution-The American Revolution (Flick Disc, 1968)
A Symphony For Susan-The Arbors* (Date, 1967)
The Arbors Sing Valley Of The Dolls-The Arbors (Date, 1967)
I Can't Quit Her/The Letter-The Arbors (Date, 1969)
Are Not For Smoking-The Blades Of Grass (Jubilee, 1968)
Bound To Happen-Cashman, Pistilli, and West (ABC, 1968)
Chamaeleon Church-Chamaeleon Church (MGM, 1968)
The Cambridge Concept of Timothy Clover-Timothy Clover (Tower, 1968)
Rain And Shine-The Canterbury Music Festival (B.T. Puppy, 196?)
Peter Cofield-Peter Cofield (Coral, 1968)
The Collage-The Collage (Smash, 1967)
Colours-Colours (Dot, 1968)
We Can Fly-The Cowsills (MGM, 1967)
Captain Sad And His Ship Of Fools-The Cowsills (MGM, 1968)*
II X II-The Cowsills (MGM, 1969)
Touch 'N Go With The Critters-The Critters (Project 3, 1968)
Daughers Of Albion-Daughters Of Albion (Fontana, 1968)
So Good-Don And The Goodtimes (Epic, 1967)
Edwards Hand-Edwards Hand (GRT, 1968)
Miss Butters-The Family Tree (RCA, 1969)
The Magic Garden-The Fifth Dimension (Soul City, 1967)
Five Man Electrical Band-Five Man Electrical Band (Capitol, 1968)
Elephant Candy-The Fun and Games (UNI, 1969)
Color Blind-The Glitterhouse (Dynovoice, 1968)
The Gordian Knot-The Gordian Knot (Verve, 1968)
Take A Picture-Margo Guryan (Bell, 1968)*
Blew Mind-The Hard Times (World Pacific, 1968)
Down To Middle Earth-The Hobbits (Decca, 1967)
Tic Tac Toe-The Jackpots (Sonet Svenska, 1967)*
Jack In The Box-The Jackpots (Sonet Svenska, 1968)*
Love Generation-The Love Generation (Imperial, 1967)*
A Generation of Love-The Love Generation (Imperial, 1968)*
Montage-The Love Generation (Imperial, 1969)*
A Midsummer's Day Dream-Marc Eric (Revue, 196?)*
Marshmallow Way-Marshmallow Way (United Artists, 1968)
Montage-Montage (Laurie, 1968)
Without Earth-The Moon (Imperial, 1968)
Mortimer-Mortimer (Phillips, 1968)
October Country-October Country (Epic, 1967)
Orange Colored Sky-Orange Colored Sky (UNI, 1968)
Will You Be Staying After Sunday-The Peppermint Rainbow (Decca, 1969)
Peppermint Trolley Company-Peppermint Trolley Company (Acta, 1968)
Hot, Cold, & Custard-Peter & Gordon (Capitol, 1968)
Procession-Procession (Smash, 1969)*
Queen Anne's Lace-Queen Anne's Lace (Coral, 1968)
It's Happening-The Red Squares (Columbia Denmark, 1967)
The Robbs-The Robbs (Mercury, 1967)
It's Now Winter's Day-Tommy Roe (ABC, 1967)*
Phantasy-Tommy Roe (ABC, 1967)
The Rose Garden-The Rose Garden (ATCO, 1968)
The Blue Marble-Sagittarius (Together, 1969)
The Smoke-The Smoke (Sidewalk, 1968)
Divided We Stand-The Split Level (Dot, 1967)
Captain Nemo-The Sundowners (Decca, 1968)
Basic Magnetism-Teddy & The Pandas (Tower, 1968)
Island In The Sky-The Tuneful Trolley (Capitol, 1968)
Twinn Connexion-Twinn Connexion (Decca, 1968)*
For Women Only-Bergen White (SSS International, 1969)
Hair-Zen (Phillips Holland, 1969)*
The ones with the asterisk are those I'm looking for, so
if anyone has any of them for sale or trade I'd be very
grateful. :-)
As you might imagine, a lot of the albums on my list are
pretty scarce. However, I've seen them, and have won some
of them on eBay, so that seems to be the most viable
ticket for finding these albums.
--
Spectropop Rules!!!!!
Take Care,
David
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Re: Renee Armand
Received: 01/25/00 1:42 am
From: Hans Ebert
To: Spectropop!
Would someone be able to tell me whatever happened to a
very underrated singer-songwriter named Renee Armand?
The lady, who was a backup singer, recorded, at least one
solo album for A&M titled 'Rain Book' which included a
great track co-written- as I believe were all the tracks-
with then-husband Jim Gordon called 'England.'
Also, the whereabouts and musical odysseys of of Mark
Radice, Felix Cavaliere, the brilliant Leon Russell, any
members of the Critters, Left Banke and Alan Merrill.
Alan was once a member of the Arrows, the first band to
record 'I Love Rock 'n Roll' and stayed in Hong Kong for
some time before moving to Japan and then the UK.
Alan, if you happen to read this, I just found a tape of
our collaborations when in Hong Kong- 4 tracks that were
perhaps slightly ahead of their time!
Thanks,
Hans Ebert
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
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