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Volume #0040 02/09/98
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Hawthorne Mourning
Carl Dean Wilson (1946-1998)
Subject: RE: Beat At Abbey Road
Sent: 2/6/98 4:43 AM
Received: 2/6/98 7:33 AM
From: Marc Miller, marXXX@XXXXXXom
To: 'spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com', spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
Jack, re:
>>Does anyone have any thoughts on this new compilation I've seen, called The
Beat at Abbey Road? <<
Yeah - it's really simple: If you like Merseybeat, you'll like this.
PLUS extra-cool bonus points for including "Things Will Never Be The
Same" by the Just Four Men. I like this disc alot!
Miller
--[ archived by Spectropop - 02 /8/98 - 12:20:27 AM ]--
Subject: Tony Hatch... et al
Sent: 2/6/98 7:57 AM
Received: 2/7/98 1:57 AM
From: Big L, biXXX@XXXXXXmail.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
>>Now where do the Brit GG records by Tony Hatch,
Ivor Raymonde etc. fit in to this theory?
I dunno, but I love the records Hatch produced for
Pet Clark, especially Colour My World, The Other
Man's Grass..., ... Subway.... Very jazzy and hip. I
don't know where this concept of Clark as the
ultimate schmaltz artist came from, but I hate it. I
can think of many artists far more schmaltzy.
On another note (probably high C), I am compiling a
list of great records, that were big hits, that are
largely ignored by the oldies stations. Maybe we can
get a thread going on this. Here's a few...
Smokey Robinson - More Love; The Love I Saw In You
Was Just A Mirage
Petula Clark - Colour My World
Temptations - Since I Lost My Baby; You're My
Everything; Cloud Nine
Four Tops - 07 Rooms Of Gloom
Tommy James & the Shondells - I Like The Way
Buckinghams - Back In Love Again
These are just a few. Why aren't these, and other
great records played? Is it something about the
concept of oldies radio in general?
==
Big L Check out my Radio Legends pages at:
biXXX@XXXXXXmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/9816
--[ archived by Spectropop - 02 /8/98 - 12:20:27 AM ]--
Subject: Back To The Roots
Sent: 2/6/98 2:27 PM
Received: 2/7/98 1:57 AM
From: Javed Jafri, javedjaXXX@XXXXXX.ca
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
> Subject: Beat At Abbey Road
> From: David Marsteller, davebXXX@XXXXXXlin.org
> One review I've read mocked the opening track, Cilla
> Black's "Love Of The Loved". It is a bit of a goofy
> arrangement, but I like it fine, and I don't know of any
> other versions of the song anyhow and am glad to have it.
> Jack, if you'd like a track listing, let me know.
I suspect that Cilla Black's "Love Of The Loved" is the Lennon and
McCartney composition which was also covered in a fine version by San
Jose's E-Types. The E-Types by the way are another great unknown band
from the 60's. They released only a handful of singles during their
existence but they are the subject of a CD on Sundazed which is well
worth checking out. I'd buy it on the strength of the song "Put The Clock
On The Wall" alone. This Bonner and Gordon composition is the best song
that the Monkees never recorded.
> Sent: 2/5/98 6:20 AM
> From: Alec Palao, paXXX@XXXXXX.com
> Not strictly true - while the LA studio mafia may have been
> involved in the recording of "Where Were You" (as they were
> on most other Sloan/Barri projects of that time), the
> 'first' Grass Roots were a real group, from the Bay Area.
> They came from San Bruno, near the airport on the SF
> peninsula, and were originally known as the Bedouins. They
> got involved with Lou Adler etc by winning the Teenage Fair
> Battle Of the Bands in San Mateo in 1965, the prize for
> which was the Dunhill contract. They appear on about 80% of
> the "Where Were You" album, as well as the great non-LP
> flips "These Are Bad Times" and "You're A Lonely Girl" (both
>
> Supposedly, there was some kind of blowout between the band
> and Adler/Sloan/Barri, although the way lead singer Bill
> Fulton tells it, it was manager Jay Lasker who screwed the
> band and had them replaced by Grill and co (who were an LA
> band originally known as the 13th Floor). Fulton later ended
> up with Tower Of Power oddly enough, whilst original Roots
> drummer Joel Larson of course later went on to the Gene
> Clark Group and the Merry-Go-Round.
>
> ALEC
Alec,
Thank you for clarifying my earlier post about the Grass Roots. Most
sources I have read seem to perpetuate the idea that the original group
was just a studio vehicle for P.F. Sloan. I did know about the second
incarnation being an actual group called the Thirteenth Floor ( not to
be confused with the Thirteenth Floor Elevators) and of course I posted
the fact that Love's original name was the Grass Roots. So is everyone
thoroughly confused now ??
By the way Alec, let me take this opportunity to let you know that I have
read several editions of your fanzine called Cream Puff Wars and have
thoroughly enjoyed each and every page. It's a great source of
information about obscure and some not so obscure San Fran Bay area
bands.
> From: Scott Bauman, scottbauXXX@XXXXXXmsn.com
> Speaking of the Grassroots, does anyone know whether
> Sloan-Barri were ever sued for stealing the hook of the
> Drifters' "I Count The Tears" for the Grassroots' "Let's
> Live For Today"? In my expert legal opinion, it's a
> pretty clear case of infringement.
>
> -- Scott
Scott,
Sloan-Barri may have produced "Let's Live For Today" but they did not
write it. The writer's credit on a 45 that I have is given to
Mogol-Shapiro-Julien. Not sure who these guys were but according to the
sleeve notes on a Rhino comp the song was originally by an
Italian/British band called The Rokes.
Javed
--[ archived by Spectropop - 02 /8/98 - 12:20:27 AM ]--
Subject: stealing riffs--or giving props?
Sent: 2/5/98 9:27 PM
Received: 2/6/98 7:33 AM
From: Jack Madani, Jack_MadXXX@XXXXXX2.nj.us
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
Scott Bauman, scottbauXXX@XXXXXXmsn.com writes:
> Speaking of the Grassroots, does anyone know whether
> Sloan-Barri were ever sued for stealing the hook of the
> Drifters' "I Count The Tears" for the Grassroots' "Let's
> Live For Today"? In my expert legal opinion, it's a
> pretty clear case of infringement.
If you want to hear a bunch of other possible infringements, check out
the 2-disc set "Growing Up Too Fast: The Mercury Girl Group Anthology."
I think it's an essential set, and there's a ton of examples of records
copping riffs and general soundscapes from other, bigger hits. It seems
that back then, either "riffs" weren't considered copyrightable, or else
there was an unwritten agreement amongst producers that copping sounds
and even whole musical phrases was to be thought of as "flattery" rather
than imitation.
Which leads to an interesting conclusion about Mike Love and his recent
"songwriting" suits against Brian Wilson; namely, that the bomp-a-bomps
and two-word phrases that Mike may have added to a song do not constitute
songwriting. Or at least, in the sixties' understanding of songwriting,
anyhow. I guess things have changed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Madani - Princeton Day School, The Great Road,
Princeton, NJ 08540 Jack_MadXXX@XXXXXX2.nj.us
"It is when the gods hate a man with uncommon abhorrence that they
drive him into the profession of a schoolmaster." --Seneca, 64 A.D.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--[ archived by Spectropop - 02 /8/98 - 12:20:27 AM ]--
Subject: "I Count The Tears"/"Let's Live For Today"
Sent: 2/7/98 11:27 PM
Received: 2/8/98 1:00 AM
From: le_page_XXX@XXXXXXies.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
Scott Bauman writes:
> In my expert legal opinion, it's a
> pretty clear case of infringement.
Sloan/Barri weren't the writers, still your point is well taken. When
Let's Live for Today comes up in conversation, I usually say "oh, the
Drifters cover?" This bothered me from the very first time I heard it.
The original is apparently an Italian copyright; that in itself might
have been a deterent to infringement claims. I would like to know how it
happened that Grass Roots recorded this apparently obscure Rokes record.
Was it Jay Lasker? (wasn't Lasker the #1 or "2 exec at at Dunhill?) In
any case, it's a fair bet the Drifters song was the basis for the hook in
Let's Live for Today.
It's interesting that there weren't more claims of infringement over
lifted melodies during the 60's. The examples are endless. Remember that
during this era Brill writers stole from each other, wrote with each
other, married, had children, divorced each other, and most were too be
busy making a successful career doing what they did best: composing. No
one could have foreseen how valuable those copyrights would become thirty
years after the fact. As it is today, most labels, artists, management
companies and music publishers refuse to accept unsolicited material for
fear of infringement claims later down the line.
One more Grass Roots piece of trivia; Grass Roots' Warren Entner was with
Spector's Three, the trio (with Russ Titelman and Annette Merar) that was
the "face" of Phil Spector's session group of the same name. Entner later
went into management, his most successful act being a heavy rock guitar
outfit called the Quiet Riots.
LePageWeb
--[ archived by Spectropop - 02 /8/98 - 12:20:27 AM ]--
Subject: Grass Roots
Sent: 2/6/98 12:17 AM
Received: 2/6/98 7:33 AM
From: Paul Urbahns, purbaXXX@XXXXXXorg
To: Spectropop List, spectroXXX@XXXXXXies.com
> The one re-recording you have to be aware of is the one
> done for the first Grass Roots single "Where Were You When
> I Needed You". The original song was done by P.F. Sloan
> and fellow studio hands. The original concept of the band
> was very much a Sloan studio project. Once the song became
> a hit a real group was put together with Robb Grill and
> co. This new fabricated group became a force to be
> reckoned with and recorded and released some fine material
> but they recorded their own vocals over the original track
> of WWYWINY for an early Greatest Hits comp. I still prefer
> the cool original.
Paul URbahns asks:
Is this original version available on CD?
--[ archived by Spectropop - 02 /8/98 - 12:20:27 AM ]--
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