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Volume #0360 December 22, 1999
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GEMA
Subject: Musicianship!
Received: 12/21/99 11:02 pm
From: DJ JimmyB, DJJimxxxxxcom
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
In a message dated 12/19/99 7:17:13 PM, you wrote:
>There's a reason why you don't hear the musicianship today
Musicianship! Hell, you don't even hear choruses, bridges or
melodies....mainly just grooves...fine for a little while,
but.............
Jimmy Botticelli
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: I'll Never Need More Than This
Received: 12/22/99 1:27 am
From: jake tassell, xwsf.taxxxxxin.net
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
Right Jamie!
If they're gonna call us 'retentive' - then let them go
ahead, say I! My two different copies of 'INNMTT' are; the
one on the A&M album which you referred to as the Larry
Levine stereo mix and another one on a single backed with
'A Love Like Yours....'; it's an English release on the
London label HLU10627, unusually for a London release - it
has an orange label. It also says on the label GEMA which I
don't know anything about, but my neighbour told me this
meant it was an 'export copy', no, I don't know what that
means either - export from where? To where? Maybe that has
no significance at all. It also says;- Made in England by
the Decca Record Co. Ltd. It was found in my girlfriend's
father's attic along with a bunch of dreary Searchers
records and a couple of good Eden Kane and Heinz discs.
But let's drop the red-herrings, superfluities and
anecdotals - I think this copy is probably just the
ordinary English release. On the single version, which is
mono, it's a tighter mix, the guitar section is more
prominent and there is definitely a ton-weight more
'chamber' on the vocal. I don't think it's just a straight
'squeeze and balance' job. I personally like both versions
for different reasons. Because of the more compressed sound
on the single it gives the illusion of being more fleet
than the album version, but I think they're both the same
speed and length. As I said before it also has a really
stupid amount of echo on it - which is always fun. The
'Levine' version has a lot more light and shade, height and
depth - which I like a lot too. The original on Philles is
probably going to sound a bit different again as you know,
because British and American sixties 45s were made out of
completely different kinds of vinyl. Now we're getting
into the the 'fine-wines' talk! American record-plastic at
that time was much more brittle, had huge amounts of really
unsubtle bass and treble reponse and kind of lacked finesse,
but it excelled in impact terms. The English vinyl was
less brittle and thus - mid-rangey and more
comprehensively fi oriented but it didn't mark up as much
oomph! Which is best? As all things, it depends what you
want. I tend to like US 45s on US vinyl and vice versa. I
know a lot of British musicians of the time were
disappointed that they couldn't get as much instant impact
as they wanted from the UK stuff. Joe Meek was particularly
frustrated with this, and when he went into cut 'Telstar'
he cut it so deep it nearly came out the other side!
That's why The Decca 'Telstar' is the loudest British 60s
45 you will find.......
I have to apologise at this point and say that I really
want to write more but I have to go to the bank! Then I'm
off to the log-fire in Somerset for Christmas. To be
continued......
Wishing a Merry Christmas to All of You on The List - You
Spectorial Revisionists, You!!!
Jake Tassell
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Re: Goffin/King Collection
Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm
From: David Bash, baxxxxxhlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
The Heavy Blinkers, heavyblixxxxxo.com wrote:
>
> Hi there! I'm new to the list and I have a question
> that I know you spectorophiles out there can answer
> for me: Does there exist and where can one purchase a
> Goffin/King box set (or simply a collection) covering
> material that was given to other artists? Any help
> would be GREATLY appreciated.
> thanks guys
> Jason
Hi Jason,
One collection which might fulfill your needs, although it
isn't devoted strictly to Goffin/King, is "On Broadway: Hit
Songs And Rarities From The Brill Building Era", a 2 CD set
released this year, on Westside Records. It's got 50 tracks,
all of which are tunes writeen by either Goffin/King,
Barry Greenwich, or Mann/Weil. It's a great collection,
and very reasonbly priced for an import. The sound is good,
the liners are good; I'm sure you'd love it! Check out
Westside at http://www.vci.co.uk
Jason, are you a member of the Canadian band The Heavy
Blinkers? If so, I like your CD, and just heard your Xmas
song, which I thought was excellent!
--
Spectropop Rules!!!!!
Take Care,
David Bash
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: RE: King/Goffin compilation
Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm
From: Mark Landwehr, mxxxxxbbs.com
To: Spectropop List, Spectxxxxxities.com
> Does there exist and where can one purchase a
> Goffin/King box set (or simply a collection) covering
> material that was given to other artists? Any help
> would be GREATLY appreciated.
>
As for LPs, Jason, here are two hard-to-find compilations...
Screen Gems-Columbia Music released to radio stations only
an LP (CPL-713) of King/Goffin hits around 1970 featuring:
Chains - Beatles(!)
Halfway to Paradise - Tony Orlando
Her Royal Majesty - James Darren
Hey Girl - Freddie Scott
Hi-De-Ho - Blood, Sweat and Tears
I'm Into Something Good - Herman's Hermits
Loco-Motion - Little Eva
Oh No, Not My Baby - Maxine Brown
One Fine Day - Chiffons
Pleasant Valley Sunday - Monkees
Take Good Care of My Baby - Bobby Vee
Up On the Roof - Drifters
Will You Love Me Tomorrow - Shirelles
Later, an LP called "Solid Gold Programming from Screen
Gems/Colgems EMI Music Companies" included 2 records
filled with nothing but King/Goffin hits. Again, this was
a promo-only issue, featuring many of the same tunes as
the previously-mentioned LP, along with such goodies as:
Goin' Back - Byrds
Will You Love Me Tomorrow - Dave Mason
No Easy Way Down - Dusty Springfield
Oh No, Not My Baby - Rod Stewart
Locomotion - Grand Funk
A Natural Woman - Aretha Franklin
Every Breath I Take - Gene Pitney
It Might As Well Rain Until September - Carole King
and others....
This is a goodie for the Spector-produced Pitney song, and,
surprisingly, both LPs have the uncharted Beatles cover of
the Cookies' smash hit "Chains"...(Why didn't they put the
Cookies' version on these records??)
Since both LPs were promo-only, I'm pretty sure they were
never commercially released later on CD/tape. That is, I'm
sure until someone says I'm wrong....
Mark
Phil Spector Label Gallery - updated
12/xxxxxp://www.toltbbs.com/~msland/Spector
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL SPECTROPOPPERS!!!!
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: two areas
Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm
From: Michael B Kelly, docxxxxx.com
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
I feel we are immensely fortunate to have Carol Kaye
contributing to Spectropop. I have two areas I would
appreciate her input on.
1. You mentioned that "Brian was the ONLY one who had
semi-charts, parts for some instruments were totally
written out while other charts were just chord-charts."
What did Jan Berry bring, if anything?
2. Rock and roll is generally said to be a fusion of R&B
and Country. I grew up listening to my father play Big
Band music and pop, and I always felt that was the third
leg of the table. Now you mention that the musicians were
all Jazz-oriented.
So in your opinion was R&R a combination of R&B/Country/
Pop/Jazz?
Doc
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Re: Spector Christmas in ((stereo))
Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm
From: WASE RADIO,xxxxxt.org
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
Hi James:
I have a European CD that has the Spector Christmas songs
in stereo. But they also tacked on three Elvis songs. The
CD is simply called "Xmas Party". The sound quality varies.
Darlene Love's "White Christmas" sounds bassy. Elvis'
"Blue Christmas" is the same. The other tracks sound fine.
There are some differences in the mixes other than the
obvious stereo-mono ones. On the stereo mixes, the strings
(heard on the right channel) are much louder. On the mono
mixes the strings are almost buried by the rhythm section.
Also the stereo versions that fade does so earlier than on
the mono versions. I'll try to find out the label for you.
But again the CD is called "Xmas Party". The front cover
depicts a swiss chalet at night covered in snow. And over
the picture are publicity photos of Elvis and all the
Spector artists.
Good Luck
Michael G. Marvin
WASE radio
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Living at the other end of the channel tunnel
Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm
From: Frank, fxxxxxc.fr
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
jake tassell wrote:
>
>Dear Spectropop
>
>...made me think a lot about The
>Spector influence on the English and Continental-European
>production styles of that time.
>
>The British ignorance of any Continental-European
>tradition in pop music before or since reflects fairly
>well the complete lack of identification with its
>geographical proximity. This is partly a cultural divide,
>but also simply to do with language difference. Since the
>channel-tunnel opened you can now get to Paris from London
>quicker than you can get to Liverpool or Manchester;- but
>hardly anyone in England has heard of Francoise Hardy,
>Serge Gainsbourg, France Gall etc. and apart from the
>aforementioned artists, my knowledge of sixties
>continental pop is fairly limited too. Any of you Spectros
>got any good recommendations?
>
>Regards
>
>
Dear Jake,
Interesting subject you bring up there. Living at the
other end of the channel tunnel and having been raised and
bathed in US and British music in the 60's, I was lucky
enough to see live and later on meet most of the great
artists you mention from the Beatles to Andrew Oldham, and
of course all of the French artists you mention (I'm still
very good friend with France Gall).
However I' m sorry to have to say that in my opinion there
was never anything in France that could be compared to the
Wall Of Sound. It's true that the British scene really
knew who Phil Spector was and what he was doing (I can
still remember the ecstatic opinion Paul and John had
about River Deep Mountain High) and also, true there were
quite interesting pseudo WOS productions done in the UK
(certainly the Walker Bros. were one instance and Andrew
Oldham was probably the No. 1 Phil Spector fan), but as far
as France was concerned : nothing.
I know at one point, Francoise Hardy had some following in
Britain but this had probably more to do with her look that
was pure Carnaby Street than anything else and certainly
not with any relations to the WOS.
You must remember that back in the 60s when French pop
started (with artists like Johnny Halliday, Eddy Mitchell,
Sylvie Vartan...) it was 99% covers of US and British hits,
nothing else. Artists and producers only tried to copy, as
faithfully as they could, the sound they heard on the
English speking hits. As a result we had all those French
translations of most of the Phil Spector songs (even River
Deep Mountain High) and practically all the other hits of
the time that you can think of. All I can say is that (99%
(again) of these covers were tragic. And it's interesting
to note that the only French artists who survived this
period veered from covers to original songs definitely
much more interesting.
This being said there were of course hundreds of French
singers and groups to suddenly come out of nowhere at the
time and they are much more listenable now than then.
Probably a nostalgic effect, so if you're interested
in anything in particular, I'll be glad to help.
Frank
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Video
Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm
From: Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
A fan just emailed this to me, tho't you might like to see
it, tho't they were done showing those videos (permanently
archived now in the Paul Allen Experience Museum in
Seattle, due to open June 2000, I just was up there
recording bass sounds on their old instruments for them,
great people with this company, EMP):
The Message:
I just visited the "Experience Music Project" page and
found a video clip of Carol et al at McCabe's. Woo-hoo, I
finally get to see them in action! Check it out at:
http://www.experience.org/nowplaying/ck/videos/real/kaye_thumbs_up_300.ram
Carol, why didn't you tell us it was there???
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: News
Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm
From: Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
Here's something I just received from Alan Boyd, a very
wonderful person as is the great Mark Linnet, fine
engineer with wonderful integrity:
>Just tonight Mark Linett and I finished mastering a
>special Beach Boys CD for Capitol Records, a "bonus" disc
>that will be given to folks who buy the new greatest hits
>packages. I've tried to structure it a little like a movie,
>I guess, interspersing bits of dialog, studio chatter,
>and even some very early home recordings at the Wilson
>house with alternate/unreleased versions of songs that are
>either in the movie or on one of the greatest hits CD's.
>
>It turned out quite nicely, and I think fans will really
>go for it. Mark Linett is an amazing engineer, a real
>perfectionist, and he did some magic with those old tapes.
Mark is the nicest guy in the business and the most honest
too.....altho' some ugly bootlegger tried to slander him
awhile back, I can vouch for Mark, a terrific guy.
Carol Kaye
http://www.carolkaye.com/
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Against the law to post contracts
Received: 12/21/99 11:02 pm
From: Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
FYI Brad Elliott, it's against the law to post any of our
Musicians' Union contracts, or at least our Union
threatened a lawsuit against someone who recently tried to
do that, SSN's or not ...so you shouldn't be putting any
contract on the url. And I have a message out to Russ
Wapensky who usually replies to me quickly on what he told
me about this.
"Drums" can mean percussion and "Guitar" can mean elec.
bass on the contracts -- so now you know that contracts
are not to be literally taken unless you are in the music
business and know the difference of what is meant by the
different ways of handling the IDing of instruments. They
even have me playing "bongoes" on many of the Ray Charles
contracts, hahahaha!
Will get right back to you all as to what Russ says.
>From Brad:
>He's the third musician listed. Carol is, by the way,
>the ninth name on the contract.
Well darn, I'm "heartbroken", they should have had me
first! :-)
Carol Kaye
http://www.carolkaye.com/
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Re: Only Hal Blaine on drums
Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm
From: Dave Mirich, Dmxxxxxcom
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
Brad Elliot wrote in part:
> << Jeez, I really hate to be put in the position of disputing
> Carol Kaye, but in this instance, I'm afraid she's wrong.
>
> and:
>
> Well, if you check the sessionography in the PET SOUNDS
> SESSIONS booklet, which "was compiled using research
> generously supplied by music historian Russ Wapensky,"
> you'll see that he too credits Frost with drums on "Pet
> Sounds" (AKA "Run James Run"). If Russ now disputes that,
> I'd be interested in learning why.
> Surf's up! Brad
Brad. Your response to Carol felt overly harsh to me, in
contrast to the style and manner normally shown by
discussants on this list. I feel it was unnecessary for
you to flatly state that she was wrong on this small point.
There may be additional information that surfaces
sometime in the future to support her memory of this item
of discussion. I would rather you had couched your
comments in the context that, "It must be next to
impossible to keep track of those thousands of dates and
hundred of thousands of details -- but here is the
information I have unearthed on this point."
Dave Mirich
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