__________________________________________________________
__________ __________
__________ __________
__________ S P E C T R O P O P __________
__________ __________
__________________________________________________________
Volume #0356 December 14, 1999
__________________________________________________________
Clean with a slightly damp, lint free cloth
Subject: Earl Palmer/Richie Frost & Definitions
Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am
From: Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
John, hi! Actually I can't imagine Richie Frost ever
playing alongside of the great Earl Palmer to "add" to the
date, don't remember him doing that at all. Richie did a
few dates around town for a short while, was sort of a
3rd-stringer (sorry, have to tell it like it is) there for
awhile, nice guy, fair drummer.
Think he worked some percussion dates maybe for Phil,
don't exactly remember. I did do some dates with Richie on
drums but NEVER for Phil Spector -- some of the rock-surf
dates, some pop too. It was always Earl Palmer or Hal
Blaine who did the heavy dates (but Sharkey Hall did some
great dates early on on drums too, as did John Guerin a
little later with various producers).
It's probably right what Phil said about "time" being
better with Earl, but don't forget that Hal started those
multi-tom-toms about that time too, which was a little
hard to get together time-wise I'm sure at first. Hal's
time is fine on many dates but sometimes he was a little
off -- Joe Osborn did say something about Hal's time too
in some magazine articles. Earl's time was not that great
in the fills tho' (if you really listen, he's rushing some
) but overall feel you couldn't beat Earl back then at all.
It's not easy holding some of the strongest musicians in
the world on the same groove. No, I'd say that wasn't
right, never saw Richie Frost ever play 2-drum sessions
with anyone, let alone Earl Palmer.
I was surprised to learn that Earl and Hal played together
on the Jan & Dean dates, I had forgotten that.....no wonder
those things groove.
FYI, the engineer is the fellow who turns the knobs in the
booth, dials in the sounds, and usually at the behest of
the producer. Larry Levine succeeded Stan Ross as engineer
w/Phil and Phil liked working with Larry, who was great at
anticipating how Phil liked his sounds, was quick to obey
Phil's commands, etc..
The arranger is the fellow who writes the music charts out
for the musicians, indicating what notes, chord changes,
etc. he wants the musicians to play. However, and this is
a big however especially back then with our creative group
of studio musicians (many from the jazz world), they did
count on us to invent parts too in our own special ways to
enhance the arrangements, etc. And at first, the arranger
really didn't know how to write in the rock styles very
well, and counted on us to do "head arrangements" with
just chord charts - no notes (head arrangements are off
the top of your head, all spontaneous inventing).
Usually the arranger conducted the musicians (1-2--1-2-3
the count-off leading to the start of the take) too.
Carol Kaye
http://www.carolkaye.com/
PS. Thanks for your nice words about the award, it's
actually an award by a woman's group on the east coast "
Women In Music" Touchstone Awards, only 4 years old now,
Odetta is another being awarded too as well as two others
in the business part of it, their names later. It's a very
sincere and honest award....am proud and honored to be a
part of it. Luncheon is at the Mariott Marquis on Feb. 1st
2000.
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Re: Richie Frost
Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am
From: Rex Patton, heaxxxxxspring.com
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
At 12:34 AM 12/13/99 +0900, you wrote:
To John Rausch:
Richie Frost was a session drummer in the late 60's.
Judging from his credits, I would say he was 4th call,
behind Hal Blaine, Earl Palmer and Jim Gordon. He later
played in a keyboards/drums duo with Lee Michaels. That's
his simple but perfect drum break in "Do You Know What I
Mean."
Rex Patton
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Thank you to all !
Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am
From: Jimmy Cresitelli, Jimxxxxxcom
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
Thanks, everyone, for th emajor input re Reparata & the
Delrons, the Victorians... and Celia Paul. Very positive
responses, and multitudinous eMail contacts. Still would
love to get my hands on a pic of the Victorians, if indeed
one exists. I've come to the conclusion that they're not
actually a group per se, but simply a line-up of session
singers. But that's definitely Darlene Love wailing in the
back on the group's "Oh... What A Night for Love." The lead
on the Victorians also sounds at times very much like the
lead on the Butterflys (who, as some of you may not know,
included the Crystals' Mary Thomas). Hope you all are
enjoying the Season! So crank up the Philles Christmas
album and play it on...
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: The Cake
Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am
From: Ian Chapman, iaxxxxx.net
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
Lindsay enquired about the Cake:-
> I once had a tape recording, taken from a radio show in
> the late 70s, of a female group called The Cake doing a
> song called (I think) "Baby That's You". (Not "Baby ITS
> You"!) I think the announcer said it had been recorded at
> Goldstar Studios. It sounded like something in the Spector
> /girl group/Red Bird/Brill style, but I don't know whether
> it was original 60s or some later revival.
"Baby That's Me" is the title, a Jackie de Shannon/Jack
Nitzsche song, first done in '64 by the Fashions (and
Nitzsche later did it with Lesley Gore). The Cake's
version - in my opinion the best by far - was from '67 on
Decca, and again, Jack Nitzsche was involved, hence the
Spector sound, and yes, it would have been done at
Goldstar. The trio, who had a slight Shangri-la's vocal
sound, also had a couple of albums, "The Cake", and "A
Slice Of The Cake". But beware - although you will find "
Baby That's Me" on the first album, plus another similarly
Spectoresque track entitled "World of Dreams", Nitzsche's
involvement spans a small part of the first album only -
the remainder, on both albums, is pretty dull fare in
comparison. "Baby That's Me", however, remains pure
girl-group gold.
Ian
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Re: The Cake
Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am
From: Michael B Kelly, docxxxxx.com
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
Lindsay,
I have the 2 Cake LPs.
Doc
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Baby That's Me - The Cake
Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am
From: jake tassell, xwsf.taxxxxxin.net
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
Dear Lindsay Martin:
I have a copy of 'Baby That's Me' by The Cake on one of
those great Mick Patrick compilations released in England
in the mid-eighties - 'Where The Girls Are' (Don't know if
it got a U.S. release, don't know the original label). The
details given on the sleeve state that the original
release was 1964. The song was written by Jackie DeShannon
and Jack Nitzsche, the string arrangement was by Harold
Battiste and the record was engineered by Stan Ross so it
was almost 100% bound to have been recorded at Gold Star!
If you are a 'perfect echo' aficionado like I am, the
record is an absolute must-have. From the opening
spine-tingling ultra-reverbed plectrum Fender Bass-motif
(who on Earth would ever want to D.I. a bass again after
hearing that!?!) to the exquisitely slurring swimming pool
string figures - it's an absolute beauty. Although not the
strongest of songs, the monumentally cavernous sound
achieved on this record easily challenges the best of the
best Spector output. Another great reverb-er on this album
is 'Let's Break Up For A While' by The Sapphires - Produced
by Ross Associates - so again probably recorded at Gold
Star. It's another remarkable piece of work - again, not a
fantastic song, but what a sound!
On a seasonal note I've been advised that anyone who likes
The Joe Meek Sound (you remember 'Telstar' - right?) should
check out:-
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/4326/index.htm
I can't personally recommend all the content of this site
(hmm hmm) but there's loads of music on it and on their
latest update they've put up a bunch of unreleased
downloadable Joe Meek Christmas songs, which should be at
the very least - interesting listening.
Also, belated thanks to Michael G. Marvin of WASE Radio
for answering some of my questions re: Gold Star
construction - I found it fascinating about the echo
chamber in the ceiling!. Anyone else got any technical
info on Gold Star?
Spectorial Regards to All.
Jake Tassell
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Attention London + Footnote for Lindsay re: The Cake
Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am
From: jake tassell, xwsf.taxxxxxin.net
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
Dear All
Hope this makes the list on time. After a browse on the
web last night, found the following:-
Wednesday 15th December
Da Doo Ron Ron. Xmas Shindig at:-
Po Na Na
20 Kensington Church Street
off High St Kensington
London W8
8pm - 2am
£5 on the door.
DJs Declan, Chris and Ady Croasdell
All The Best in Girl Group Sounds.
Back to the question of 'Baby That's Me' by The Cake. I
checked the Kent/Ace catalogue and found that the 'Where
The Girls Are' compilation has been deleted. They now have
two albums on release - 'Where The Girls Are - Volumes 1
and 2', but they are nothing to do with the original album,
so don't get confused - The Cake track is on neither of
them. I think a good bet for trying to find the original
45 would be from a Northern dealer so - get thee to the
Northern Soul Webring! As good as any link would be Roger
Stewarts' site at:-
http://www.boo-ga-loo.demon.co.uk/
If you don't find it in the catalogues I'm sure if you
e-mailed a couple of these sites someone would come up
with a copy. It's worth remembering that because of the
Northern and Sixties Soul boom in the UK that occurred in
the Seventies and Eighties, most of the US Sixties Wall of
Sound and Girl-Group type records were plundered from
American warehouses by short stocky Lancastrians in penny
loafers and Fred Perry shirts - which is why a lot of the
time it's best to shop for this material in England! -
kind of sounds like the Tea Wars doesn't it?!!
Regards
Jake Tassell
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Brian Wilson - Fire
Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am
From: Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
I 2nd that opinion about the fact that yes, Brian Wilson
was absolutely "normal" when we cut the Fire sessions.....
he was just having FUN on the dates, and we understood
that and respected him. We sort of had fun ourselves!
And yes, he did have to have enourmous talent, genius type
talent actually, to command us.....of course we worked for
"everybody" in LA, didn't matter if they had a "degree in
music" or not -- if they paid, we played. But it was sure
easier to work for people who knew what the heck they were
doing.....most of those younger producers didn't and it was
OUR JOB to help them in spite of their lack of experience
and their ignorance of real music....we got hits for them
no matter what, but we also called these kinds of dates "
ditchdigger" dates.....get the shovels out and get it done,
etc. and were usually picking on each other some,
telling some great inside-joke one-liners (to stay awake
etc.), those dates were tough to work, even tho' we'd cut
3-4 songs which should have made it more interesting.
Brian only did ONE song per 3-hour date (or longer) but it
was interesting and we knew we were cutting history, and
the respect for Brian was in hushed tones believe me. All
of us would check each other on the other dates to make
sure we were "all" working for Brian......it was the top
of the month to work for Brian....we knew he was the
genius-kid.
Plus he was strong - a true leader, knew exactly what he
was doing (what he wanted), he paid us well, and he loved
being around us too, felt completely COMFORTABLE, in his
element being around us, and yes, we were the finest of
the studio musicians to cut that kind of hit-music. Such
was HIS TALENT, you're right! Right on the nose!
He had to have the finest of musicians to PLAY HIS MUSIC,
it was so strong and needed our experience and expert
performance values to pull it off....he knew this. The
Fire sessions (I believe) was sort of a culmination of his
breaking away from the dum-dum surf-rock stuff, and going
on to his real music career of writing/arranging/producing
etc. That stuff is very tame compared to some of the
greatest classical writing ever done (sans fire hats....
but do we really know what it took for the classic masters
of those early times, what did they do to "get in the mood"
to write the great music *they* did? And weren't they
probably considered a little strange in their time for
having fun with their music too? Booooooo!).
Brian is playful, and that side of him is not really known
much.
He was certainly in his element in the studios, doing his
thing - he was masterful, had fun, yes worked hard, it's
fun when you work hard on great music, no matter the
physical part of it or not, and it's a joy to see someone
enjoy *his talent* like Brian did....we all felt it, we
admired him (unlike some of others we had to work for,
altho' most were good) and watched him grow so fast back
in the 60s, once he got away from the mundane things of
travelling with the group, and doing the "public thing".
He grew like you won't believe, because he was HAPPY in
the studios, creating with our gang of musicians who were
*for* him........
I hate the way so-called *expert writers* pick and judge
him -- they're looking at the OUTSIDE IMAGE of the man,
and have no couth to look for the beauty of the INSIDE of
the REAL MAN where Brian resides....but his real friends,
studio musicians, fine fans, they all know the real Brian
and they're correct.
It wouldn't surprise me once they get more settled again
out here, to have a studio built-in so he can fool around
at home....yes, he's still GOT IT imo, and better than
ever. He just doesn't need some envious-jealous imitator
with a record contract "helping" him....his "Everything I
Need" track was as great as ever before it was messed with,
that is for sure.
The man knows what he is doing!
Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
End
Spectropop text contents & copy; copyright Spectropop unless
stated otherwise.
All rights in and to the contents of these documents, including each element embodied therein, is subject to copyright
protection under international copyright law. Any use, reuse, reproduction and/or adaptation without written permission of the owners is a violation of copyright law and is strictly prohibited. All rights reserved.
