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Volume #0282 June 29, 1999
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Don't touch that dial...
Subject: TO-John Rausch
Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am
From: Diane renay, CEIInvxxxxm
To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com
Dear John:
Regarding oldies being used to pitch hamburgers, macaroni
& cheese, etc. I don't imagine that my recording of Navy
Blue would be used to sell these types of products, I
couldn't see the connection. I wouldn't be surprised
however, if a company such as "Old Navy," were to pick up
on tying my song into a commercial for them one day.
As far as my feelings would go - if, let's say, this
particular company chose to use Navy Blue to promote their
store, it would all depend on how they used my recording.
If it were done in "tongue & cheek," in good humor, and
made people feel good about wearing clothes that they
purchased at "Old Navy," it would not bother me, in fact I
would be flattered that they chose to use my recording.
However, I don't think I would like it very much if my
song was used for pitching food products, that's kind of
CHEESY, ha, ha!!!
Also, regarding compensation for using oldies for
commercials....I believe that if only the first 8 bars of
music are used, they do not have to pay any royalties to
anyone. If this is so, of course it is not fair to the
writers, or the artists who are singing the songs. However,
in these times in which we live, there are many things
in life that are not fair. Unfortunately, for the writers,
and recording artists of oldies, such as myself, many of
the old songs are being put to CD's, and no one is able to
receive any royalties for their work! At this time, there
are several CD's on the market sold here and overseas,
that have many of my recordings on them, along with lots
of other oldies, and I nor any of the other artists are
receiving compensation in the form of royalties.
So, I guess you might say that many oldies recording
artists, who for the most part do not receive any monetary
compensation for the use of our music, are at least
receiving a little recognition instead when our songs are
used to pitch commercials, whether the commercials are
good or bad!
I hope that I was able to answer your question to your
satisfaction.
Sincerely: Diane Renay <[:>)
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Subject: Commercials w/hits
Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am
From: Carol Kaye, carolkxxxxink.net
To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com
John Rausch, you ask my opinion about using old hit
records for commercials. I think it's good business for
one thing.....those hits were well-done, good recognizable
tunes that draw the listener in to hearing them. And the
nostalgia is wonderful....many feels akin to the older hit
records, especially when considering the alternative of
listening to the music of today (excuse me, some of
today's music is pretty good but not much...it was just
the opposite back then in the 60s).
Plus the musicians get a few coins in royalties too...
everyone benefits. I recorded a lot of commercials back in
the 60s and some in the 70s too...it's a fine art, and back
then you had the likes of the wonderful Bob Thompson; even
Billy Strange did some...they were all the finest of the
arrangers, etc.
But nowadays, that's not exactly what is going on with the
synthesizer users cutting in on the business...so most
commercials are not that signatory of great talents. A few
are (Nissan ad etc.) but most, like the music changes, are
pretty drab and some downright awful and stupid.
It's best to use the old hits, cheaper, and you've got
some class then.
Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/
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Subject: Re: Jingle Jangle
Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am
From: Jamie Lepage, le_page_xxxxies.com
To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com
john rausch wrote:
>what are your thoughts on T.V./Radio ads using...old hit
>songs for their commercials?
I'm not against this practice at all.
>...who gets the profit from this practice?
It depends on the use. If the original recording is used,
then those interested parties connected with both master
rights and publishing rights profit. Old contracts
typically did not address profit sharing on secondary uses
of masters or use of songs in ads. However, in practice it
is typical for the master reuse fee to be shared equally
between the master owner and the artist. Publishing varies,
but certainly songwriters profit from use of songs in
ads.
>does anyone involved with the original recording have
>any say in this practice?
Approval rights too were usually not addressed in old
contracts, but I would think more often than not writers
and artists are consulted on these ad uses before the
licenses are done, if for no other reason than to
circumvent potential lawsuits from the writers/artists.
>I would rather remember all my favorite
>hits of my youth the way they were intended - on the radio
>or at home in all their glory.
Your opinion is certainly a valid one and obviously comes
from a deep affection and appreciation for the music. It's
an opinion shared by many music fans. Today, though, many
view such uses as giving "added value" to a song/master.
Stand By Me is a good example. For decades it was merely
one of many fine Leiber/Stoller productions on Ben E King/
Drifters. But the use in a Levi's commercial and a few
soundtracks elevated the song to that of a standard or
"evergreen" as such songs are often called. Theoretically,
various secondary uses of Stand By Me might have helped
generate sufficient interest in the Drifters to justify
the great Drifters box that came out recently. If so,
bring on the ads!
>...those great hits play as a soundtrack to my youth not
>as the latest jingle to sell me something I don`t want or
>need.
I share that feeling, but keep in mind that for many, this
music is NOT the soundtrack to their youth. Many hear these
songs for the first time in ads and soundtracks.
In fact, much of the music I listen to today is not the
music of my youth. For instance, I never heard Diane
Renay's Unbelievable Guy until a few years ago, or
anything on the Girls Scene CD until Ian wrote about it
here on the list. But if the Diane Renay master was used
in an advert with a man's voice tagging "Unbelievable
savings at Acme", I for one wouldn't be offended. I would
think the ad agency had good taste in music. :-)
What I do find objectionable is when a song is rewritten
and re-recorded by jingle singers specifically with a
product in mind. For instance, I wouldn't want to hear
Strawberry Fields Forever rewritten as "Strawbery Crush
for flavour" etc. But when music is used tastefully in ads,
as it often is in Levi's commercials, I say why not? I
can still listen to the old 45s or elpees at home in their
original context.
Just one person's opinion, though...
Jamie
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Subject: Re: Jingle Jangle
Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am
From: Michael "Doc Rock" Kelly, docroxxxxom
To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com
Well, I for one have been keeping a log of commercials that
use oldies. I started keeping track in 1978.
Doc
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Pop Songs used in commericals
Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am
From: Paul Urbahns, Paulurbxxxxm
To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com
John Rausch writes:
>what are your thoughts on T.V./Radio ads using all
>the old hit songs for their commercials?
Brian Wilson has been making a good living off of this
commerical use of beach Boy songs for years. Matter fact
they probably have the largest number of songs converted
to commericals than any other writer.
>who gets the profit from this practice? Obviously the
>copyright owner, I imagine, but does anyone involved with
>the original recording have any say in this practice?
Normally this is a copyright issue. The advertising
company gets permission from the publisher of the song to
use it in the commericals and they normally use studio
singers to resing the song. Very seldom is the original
record used because unless you have multitrack studio
tapes and don't want any chages to the lyric it's not
practical. The resung versions are the length needed for
the commerical. Some samples of commerical uses are:
Radio: This is sometimes different that the TV version of
the same ad, simply because radio is audio and you can't
show something so everything has to be described. That
means they usually make whats known in the business as a
"donut". That is a version of the song that starts out
singing then goes to an intrumental bridge (usually 1/2
the total playing time) This is were the announcer can say
"Come on by randy's Used car Imporimum for the best buys in
used cars" or some such commerical Then the singing comes
back to close the commerical. It's called a donut because
there is no singing in the middle.
I am not sure how the royalties are calculated, but I
have been told that the songwriter receives something
everytime the commerical is played on radio or television.
I have seen a few commericals where they used the original
recording. A good example is Louis Armstrong's "What A
Wonderful World". But Armstrong had such a unique voice
that it would be hard to copy his delivery and make it
sould anything like the original.
In the case of the original singer being consulted, if
they are still in the business and actively working then
they may be hired to do the re-sing. But you have to
remember, even singers still working don't sound like they
did 30 years ago. Brenda Lee recently recut about 20 of her
greatest hits and they had to play them in different keys
than the original recordings because her voice has cjanged
and she has been working professionally since she was about
12 years old, and still does.
One commercial song I have been looking for is Lou
Christie's recording of Wouldn't It Be Nice, the Beach
Boys song, which was done for a car television commerical
(and probably the radio versions too). I always though it
waould make a good addition to a Lou Christie CD but
apparently nobody else does. So they use well known
siongers sometimes in the re-sings but seldom the original
singer.
Paul Urbahns
former-DJ
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Subject: Re: Diane Renay
Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am
From: DJ JimmyB, DJJimmyxxxxm
To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com
In a message dated 6/27/99 10:37:39 AM, you wrote:
>(Diane, this song rocks!)
Diane Renay's "Blue Navy" LP was spotted yesterday in
Boston (where we have fantabulash used record shops by the
by) on the wall with their other "catches" with a $39.99
price tag decorating its upper right hand corner. Encased
in the plastic jacket so popular with we collectors, it
was begging me to buy it. Diane of course looked
resplendent all decked out with her state-of-the art 1964
"do" swooping down and framing her face. Ya looked great
Ms K!
Jimmy Botticelli
"Jimmy's Easy" airs on 88.1FM, WMBR in Cambridge MA from 6
-8 am on Tuesdays. To hear it on your 'puter, download
Real Audio (its free) and go to www.wmbr.org after you
calculate when it will be audible in your neighborhood
(it's live at our website)
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: music history
Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am
From: james fisher, JHFAxxxxnet
To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com
Jim Cassidy mentioned Ian Whitcomb's book "After the Ball"
as a good source regarding the background of pop music and
it's ancestors...indeed it is. Ian also put out another
tome on the whirly-gig of early/mid '60s pop and his own
fleeting brush with fame--"Rock Odyssey". If anyone wants
a good read on the LA music scene,circa 1965, ( and who
doesn't for crying out loud??) then get ahold of this book
....even if you don't learn anything new you will
definitely get a laugh out of his encounters with Sonny and
Cher and many of the other luminaries who populated the
Sunset Strip at the time. A revised edition came out a
year or two ago and I'm sure you can order it through any
of the larger chains. He goes from upper-class English
twit at Trinity to Has-Been pop star in LA almost in one
fell swoop. It's a great yarn, try and check it out.
Regards, Jim.
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: Re: Lilys...and more Brazilian music
Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am
From: Stig O'Hara, wuo0xxxx.se
To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com
Dave Mirich wrote:
>Tobias, you sounded downright sure of yourself when you
>shot off that the Lily's most recent CD was their 4th.
>What gives?
Oh, I'm probably wrong. I always give the impression of
knowing more than I do so don't take anything I say
seriously :-)
On another note, I got some tapes of Brazilian music in the
mail today. Gal Costa's two first albums, which both are
brilliant and in the same style as her "Baby" contribution
to the "Tropicalia" compilation last year. It's kind of
modernized bossa nova with brilliant string and flute
arrangements, with Costa's breezy voice floating on top.
Several of the songs are duets with Gilberto Gil, another
Brazilian artist and composer (Os Mutantes covered several
of his songs, as did many other Brazilian artists).
Milton Nascimento's "Courage" is even better, but quite
similar to Costa. Again, huge string and flute/oboe
arrangements dominate the moody neo-bossa music. What
makes his music so original, I guess, is the chord changes
which are completely unpredictable, and take the music into
unexpected directions. You don't have to be a musician to
notice this, it's something you hear instantly and it
really does make the music sound really fresh, atleast
compared to the I IV V rock'n'roll played on the radio.
Also...heard a track by Ladybug Transistor called "Vale Of
Cashmere", and it's ok I guess. It's pretty much stolen
directly from Stereolab's "Cybelie's Reverie" (which, btw,
is arranged by the High Llamas' Sean O'Hagan)...well, it's
better than to sound like Oasis :)
Tobias
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Subject: Re: Spectropop TO-Will Stos
Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am
From: Diane renay, CEIInvxxxxm
To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com
Dear Will:
I would like to ask about the Girl Group Gazette and the
other oldies publications you mentioned. What are these? I
have never heard of them.
Thanks: Diane Renay <[:>)
--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
Subject: top ten(s)
Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am
From: Stewart Mason, flamixxxxom
To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com
Okay, I wasn't going to play, seeing as how those of you
who know me know that I have a lot of trouble limiting
myself to ten of *anything*, much less music. So with the
caveat that I actually had to split this into THREE lists
and that there are several dozen other songs per list that
I'd be prefectly happy to have on here -- as it is, two of
the three have 11 entries! -- and that the ranking will
probably have changed between the time I send this and the
time the digest shows up, here goes:
THE CANON (that is, I love pretty much everything these
artists did, but these are the highest highs):
1. Caroline No -- The Beach Boys (my favorite song of all
time)
1. (tie) You Don't Own Me -- Lesley Gore (my
just-barely-second-favorite song of all time)
2. Seven and Seven Is -- Love
3. And Your Bird Can Sing -- The Beatles
4. Waterloo Sunset -- The Kinks
5. Painter Man -- The Creation
6. She's Not There -- The Zombies
7. Sunday Morning -- The Velvet Underground
8. Porpoise Song -- The Monkees
9. You're Gonna Miss Me -- The 13th Floor Elevators (the Texas National
Anthem, at least amongst my generation of Texans)
10. Be My Baby -- The Ronettes (Phil's second greatest production -- see
below)
GREAT AMERICAN SINGLES:
1. Summer Samba -- Astrud Gilberto (should actually be in
the canon, but as wonderful as her other songs are, this
is simply head and shoulders above)
1. (tie) Walk On By -- Dionne Warwick (ditto)
2. This Could Be the Night -- Modern Folk Quartet (Phil's
greatest)
3. Cherish -- The Association
4. Sweet Pea -- Tommy Roe (dig the way the drummer's using
James Brown's "Funky Drummer" beat four years before James did!)
5. Lightnin' Strikes -- Lou Christie
6. Cynthia Loves -- The Robbs
7. Stained Glass Window -- The Yellow Balloon
8. Surfer Dan -- The Turtles
9. Laugh Laugh -- The Beau Brummels
10. Weeping of the Willow -- Harry Nilsson
(NOTE: This contains nothing from Van Dyke Parks' SONG
CYCLE because I can't tear myself to limit myself to one
track. If I included the album, it would be around #6.)
GREAT BRITISH SINGLES:
1. Downtown -- Petula Clark (am I the only one who thinks this is the
saddest song ever recorded?)
2. The Intro and the Outro -- The Bonzo Dog Band
3. I Can Hear the Grass Grow -- The Move (just barely edges out "Flowers
in the Rain" and "Night of Fear")
4. Substitute -- The Who
5. Night Time Girl -- Twice As Much
6. Ferry Cross the Mersey -- Gerry and the Pacemakers
7. Astronomy Domine -- Pink Floyd
8. All Of Us -- Nirvana
9. Have You Seen Your Mother Baby Standing in the Shadow -- The Rolling
Stones
10. Smashed Blocked -- John's Children
Stewart
************************FLAMINGO RECORDS**********************
Stewart Allensworth Mason
Box 40172 "New Mexico: Cockfighting's legal
Albuquerque NM 87196 and we got Plague!"
www.rt66.com/~flamingo
******************HAPPY MUSIC FOR NICE PEOPLE*****************
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