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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Grass Roots
From: Glenn
2. Cilla Black vs. Dionne Warwick
From: James Botticelli
3. Re: Projections
From: Al Kooper
4. Re: Monkees - I Wanna Be Free
From: Steveo
5. Re: D. W. Washburn / Coasters
From: Andy
6. Re: DJ enunciation
From: Robert R. Radil
7. Re: Feldman, Goldstein & Gottehrer
From: Glenn
8. Re: Feldman, Gottehrer, Goldstein - sixties discography
From: Jeff Lemlich
9. Re: The Beat Goes On/Uni-chord songs
From: TD
10. Songs not in the movie
From: Peter Lerner
11. Re: Awesome group names
From: Peter Lerner
12. Re: Elvis Sun Session tapes done for profit?
From: Steveo
13. Re: Grass Roots
From: Mark Frumento
14. Dis-Advantages of You
From: Mark T
15. Re: Cilla Black vs. Dionne Warwick
From: Phil Chapman
16. Benson and Hedges 101/She Let's Her Hair Down
From: Mark T
17. From: Mark Hill / Happiness Is / Colt 45 / Cigarette Commercial Jingles
From: Dr. Mark
18. Mark Wirtz in Mojo
From: Doug Richard
19. Re: Sock it to me!
From: TD
20. Grass Roots
From: Mark T
21. Re: Mina - and other things
From: Steve
22. Re: Cilla Black
From: Phil Chapman
23. Country Paul/Homburg/record company
From: Peter Kearns
24. Re: Monkees - I Wanna Be Free
From: lightning
25. Re: Gary Stites
From: Jeff Lemlich
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:36:13 -0000
From: Glenn
Subject: Re: Grass Roots
Dan Hughes wrote:
> Just to be a completist, it was also on the third (think it
> was the third) Grass Roots album, Feelings.
Nope, it was on the fifth Grass Roots album, Lovin' Things. Lead
vocal by Rob Grill. Strings arranged by Jimmie Haskell. Produced
by Steve Barri. And a heck of a good version.
Dan Hughes also wrote:
> [I suspect that] ringers were substituted for the real Grass
> Roots after the third album, when they switched from cutting-
> edge Sloan/Barri folkrock to poppy fluff....
There are a lot of folks out there with this view of Sloan/Barri-
period Grass Roots vs. pop/rock/white soul-period Grass Roots
(though it was the very same quartet that performed both).
Unfortunately, most of the people in the industry involved in
re-issuing records on CD also agree with you. Thus Rhino's 2-disc
Grass Roots Anthology devotes about 65% of its tracks to their
material from 1966 to early 1968 and about 35% to the material
from late 1968 to 1975, with only ONE album track from that latter
period and the rest a string of singles. Only the first three
Grass Roots albums have been re-issued on CD - the first two, which
were produced by Sloan & Barri, and the third, produced by Barri
alone but primarily filled with Sloan/Barri songs. None of the six
albums after that have been re-issued on CD.
I don't agree with the term "poppy fluff" to describe the music
beginning with "Midnight Confessions" and on through "The River
Is Wide", "Wait A Million Years", "Temptation Eyes" (ranked in
one book as one of the 100 greatest singles of the rock era),
"Sooner or Later", "Two Divided By Love', "Heaven Knows", etc.,
etc., when the Grass Roots sold about 19 million of the 20 million
records they've sold.
Should the Grass Roots have stuck to their acoustic folk-rock
while Dylan had already gone electric, P.F. Sloan had quit the
business entirely, and the whole folk-rock movement was down
the drain? In fact, I can tell you that their lead singer Rob
Grill even agreed with you at the time. When Steve Barri offered
them "Midnight Confessions", a Motown-influenced record with horns,
Grill didn't want to do it. He thought the Grass Roots would have
better luck sticking with the folk-rock sound. In retrospect, though,
he's glad he took Barri's advice.
So, perhaps you might say that when the Grass Roots "souled out",
they also "sold out"? But not everyone on the planet agrees with
the term "pop fluff" to describe records like "Midnight Confessions"
and "Temptation Eyes" are of no value (an assessment inherent in
your description of them as "fluff") - some feel that these are
among the greatest records to ever make the Top 40, in sound quality,
musicianship, vocal power and songwriting strength. One critic said
"the Grass Roots' hits would go on to influence a generation of new-
wavers taken by their well-honed craftsmanship and economy of purpose."
Glenn
Webmaster
Golden Grass - The Grass Roots Fan Page
http://home.att.net/~souldeep69/index.html
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:05:59 -0500
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Cilla Black vs. Dionne Warwick
Paul Bryant wrote:
> The character singing the song is
> a not unintelligent but slightly naive young woman trying
> to work out some profound, difficult moral problems
> (question - which other 1960s pop song fits that
> description? Answer - The Shoop Shoop Song!!).
Yes but will you still love me tomorrow?
--
James Botticelli
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:13:01 EST
From: Al Kooper
Subject: Re: Projections
Mike:
> ..before it ever arrived to my ears. I was amazed, really,
> at my intimate and total familiarity with something I'd
> been away from for so long.
> So Al, you and the rest of the boys sure must have done
> something right! Thanks for all the great music.
Yikes! I am humbled by your sincerity.
Thanks so much for listening !
Al Kooper
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:21:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Steveo
Subject: Re: Monkees - I Wanna Be Free
Jim asks:
> Anyone recall an almost forgotten Monkees song called
> "I Wanna be Free"? Not sure if was a "B" side or an
> LP track.
Jim,
"I Wanna Be Free" was a huge hit for the Monkees
(Davy Jones specifically on vocal) and was released as a 45.
It may have been a "B" side originally to another hit, but it
got a lot of airplay, and thus became a double-sided hit.
I seem to remember a picture sleeve that accompanied the 45.
Steveo
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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:07:23 -0000
From: Andy
Subject: Re: D. W. Washburn / Coasters
John Cook wrote:
> When was D.W. Washburn? If it was early '68,
> that would put it within range of that interest.
Not sure of the release date but, it was recorded on 2/17/68 and
3/01/68 in Hollywood, CA.... also the Coasters did record this
song in october of '67 but, it was not released by King records
when scheduled, but was re-issued (if this is a correct term)
when the Monkees version broke, at least that is what I was told.
Andy
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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:32:59 -0000
From: Robert R. Radil
Subject: Re: DJ enunciation
Dan Hughes wrote:
> East Side Story--Bob Seger & the Last Herd.
> I mean, I wonder how many stations passed on their
> records because when the DJ announced the group the
> audience would hear "Bob Seger and the Last Turd."
The DJs would have to speak *very* clearly! As they would
when playing a cut from "Dolly Parton's Greatest Hits"!
Bob Radil
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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:51:11 -0000
From: Glenn
Subject: Re: Feldman, Goldstein & Gottehrer
I wrote:
> One of my favorite songwriting stories is about this
> song. "Goldmine" magazine interviewed the three...
Eddy:
> I have that issue of Goldmine right here and I quote:
Eddy,
Thank you SO MUCH for looking that up for me, and for going to the
extra effort of checking for the Tommy James "Mirage" quote. Getting
this info from you was as much a relief as if I'd found the issue
myself. That was really nice of you!
Well, at least I had the *gist* of the "My Boyfriend's Back" story -
that they'd written the whole song in one sitting except for getting
stuck on one line of the lyric, and it actually took them months to
come up with that one line. I was just way off on exactly how many
months it took!
Still, the fact that they wrote the whole song, but wouldn't let it
go until they found THE right line, and that took three months to
come up with - that kind of care for the quality of the finished
product impressed me very much, and the story has always stayed with
me.
That kind of care paid off, too! I mean, "If I were you I'd take a
permanent vacation" is pretty much the coolest line in the song,
isn't it? Worth the wait, I'd say.
If there had been some awkward line there, they may not have
"hey la"-ed that song all the way to #1.
Thanks again, Eddy.
Glenn
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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:29:21 -0000
From: Jeff Lemlich
Subject: Re: Feldman, Gottehrer, Goldstein - sixties discography
David L Gordon:
> FELDMAN, GOTTEHRER, GOLDSTEIN
> This is an incomplete list of sixties records written
> and produced
> THE LAST WORD (Boom 60014) 08/66
> Hot Summer days
> ?
> Prod : Fireplace Productions
Thanks for the listing, Davie. The flip of 60014 is Bidin'
My Time, and both sides were pdouced by Bob Feldman.
Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com
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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:32:27 -0500
From: TD
Subject: Re: The Beat Goes On/Uni-chord songs
Add Howlin' Wolf's "Smokestake Lightning",
"Somebody's Walkin' in My Home",
and Muddy Waters "She's Alright"
-- TD
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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:57:45 -0000
From: Peter Lerner
Subject: Songs not in the movie
Splendor in the Grass by Jackie DeShannon.
Jackie liked this song of hers so much that she recorded
it three times - once with acoustic guitar for her Metric
Music "folk" demo, once with rock backing by the Byrds
(a pretty disorganised affair), and the sweet dramatic
version that most of you have probably heard.
Peter
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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:02:44 -0000
From: Peter Lerner
Subject: Re: Awesome group names
previously;
> Brian Diamond & The Cutters (awesome name for a group!)
Mike Edwards:
> Which set me thinking, what other groups have names like
> that? I'll start the ball rolling with an obscure British
> (?)band.. Guy Rope & The Tent Pegs .. it's true!
Dawn Chorus and the Blue Tits. (did a nice version of "When
You Walk In The Room"). Rumour has it that UK TV personality
par excellence Carol Vorderman was a Blue Tit in earlier life.
Peter
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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:00:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Steveo
Subject: Re: Elvis Sun Session tapes done for profit?
Dan wrote:
> Hacked to pieces for profit? I mean, if that was their
> game wouldn't they have gone for, say, half-inch strips?
Dan,
I believe that this was done both for the benefit of
the fans AND for profit! The articles in the New York
Times said that it was a New Jersey firm that was
doing this. I'm not exactly sure what the arrangement
with Elvis Presley Enterprises was.
Steveo
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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:51:01 -0000
From: Mark Frumento
Subject: Re: Grass Roots
Glenn wrote:
> I don't agree with the term "poppy fluff" to describe the music
> beginning with "Midnight Confessions" and on through "The River
> Is Wide", "Wait A Million Years", "Temptation Eyes" (ranked in
> one book as one of the 100 greatest singles of the rock era),
> "Sooner or Later", "Two Divided By Love', "Heaven Knows", etc.,
> etc., when the Grass Roots sold about 19 million of the 20 million
> records they've sold.
Boy do I agree with Glenn! I don't own a lot of Grass Roots records
but do own what little is available on CD. They were an amazingly
diverse group. It's easy to forget that they also had some
incredible writers, producers and arrangers behind them.
To me they were one of the acts who kept well arranged, melodic pop
alive well into the 70s. Let me add to the list: "Bella Linda"
and "Lovin' Things"
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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:10:20 -0000
From: Mark T
Subject: Dis-Advantages of You
The original version of this was done by a group called The
Answer on Columbia. The Brass Ring version on Dunhill was a
cover. The Answer version was the one actually used on the
commercial.
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Message: 15
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 00:24:35 -0000
From: Phil Chapman
Subject: Re: Cilla Black vs. Dionne Warwick
Paul Bryant:
> I hesitate to say this, in fact here goes my credibility
> right now, but Cilla's version of "Alfie" is loads better
> than Dionne Warwick. It's because she's a worse singer.
Paul, I agree with your interesting comparison of the versions.
Conversely, IMHO the worst version of "Alfie" is by Cher. I
really like Cher from her S&C days and their Spector-sounding
stuff, but the track to her recording of "Alfie" sounded to me
like some escaped animal had invaded the session. And wasn't
that the version used in the U.S. release of the film?
As for credibility, don't worry about it. Re: my recent post on
the Patti Labelle sessions, a rather thoughtful Vicki Wickham
said to me, in conversation about some R&B records, "Phil, you
like all the wrong things!" - Nothing's changed:-)
Phil C
PS - Re: Lulu/Aretha Franklin - are we talking about "Oh Me Oh My?
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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:14:23 -0000
From: Mark T
Subject: Benson and Hedges 101/She Let's Her Hair Down
I also remember the 101 jingle very well. It was done by The
Tokens and appears on a bootleg I have of their commercial
jingles. They also did a full length version of the song,
with different lyrics, as a real song, kind of like Hillside
Singers did with the Coke commercial.
Haven't seen anyone mention the great Clairol commercial song,
She Lets Her Hair Down. Originally done and recorded by Don
Young on Bang and then made into a hit by the Tokens. I remember
never hearing it on the radio but seeing it in my record store
and buying it hoping it would be the commercial jingle and it was.
Probably my favorite Tokens record.
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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:53:37 -0500
From: Dr. Mark
Subject: From: Mark Hill / Happiness Is / Colt 45 / Cigarette Commercial Jingles
Ed Salamon:
> Subject: Re: cigarette commercial music
> Another great one is Paul Evans' "Happiness Is", a hit by Ray
> Conniff,
I'm pretty sure I have a vocal version of this by BOBBY SHERMAN.
*Prior* to his Metromedia label days.
Steveo:
> One of the best 60's commercials music was "Colt 45 malt liquor
> theme"! This used an ocarina as lead and was very quirky. It had
> a moderato beat, but was very memorable! The title of this piece
> is "A Completely unique Experience".
Any known recordings of this????
"Dr. Mark" Hill * The Doctor Of Pop Culture /*/ drmark7@juno.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/popmusicpopculture
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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:37:29 -0000
From: Doug Richard
Subject: Mark Wirtz in Mojo
I don't think this has been mentioned here yet, but there is
a six-page story on Mark Wirtz and Tomorrow/Keith West in the
February issue of Mojo magazine.
Doug
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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:07:16 -0500
From: TD
Subject: Re: Sock it to me!
Howard:
> A while back I was listening to a radio prog. when they played
> a record from the 50s where the phrase 'Sock It To Me' was used.
> I sure some Spectropoppers will know!
Although it wasn't from the 50's, Rex Garvin and the Mighty
Cravers used "Sock it to 'em, J.B." (the J.B. was James Bond).
They also had a hit inspired by the Lestoil commercial--
"Emulsified"!
--TD
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Message: 20
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:17:34 -0000
From: Mark T
Subject: Grass Roots
> Dan, who suspects ringers were substituted for the real
> Grass Roots after the third album, when they switched from
> cutting-edge Sloan/Barri folkrock to poppy fluff....
Their Sloan-Barri folk rock was good but nowhere near as good
as their "poppy fluff". That was great.
Speaking of the Roots, anyone know why Optical Illusion wasn't
a single? That was vintage GR and should have been a hit. It
also should have been on the Rhino double CD as well as Powers
of the Night from their comeback LP in 81.
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Message: 21
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:02:52 -0000
From: Steve
Subject: Re: Mina - and other things
Julio:
> I think I have (Mina's) Spanish version of "Grande, Grande,
> Grande" somewhere. Personally, I don't like it very much,
> it is too seventies style for my taste, but I can play it
> to musica if you are interested.
Mike:
> One other Italian song not yet mentioned: "Volare" by Bobby
> Rydell on Cameo from 1960.
Mike and Julio
Sometime in the next few weeks or so I hope to be set up for
playing songs to Musica - then I can put some music where my
talking goes.
By the way - just remembered 2 more....
Piano - Mina
Softly As I leave You - Matt Monro
Uno Tranquillo - Riccardo Del Turco
Suddenly You Love Me - The Tremoloes
Cheers
Steve
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Message: 22
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 02:10:17 -0000
From: Phil Chapman
Subject: Re: Cilla Black
John Love:
> ...there are plenty of others too that made the grade -
> McCartney's brilliant "It's For You" and "Step Inside Love",
"Step Inside Love" is structurally and dynamically similar
to the Ronettes "Born To Be Together", and was written shortly
after. I once shared this observation with (Sir) Paul during
a Wings session, as he seemed bemused by my use of BTBT as a
monitor-alignment tape.
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Message: 23
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 00:05:31 -0000
From: Peter Kearns
Subject: Country Paul/Homburg/record company
Country Paul wrote:
> Also, kudos to list member Peter Kearns, who has created a very
> respectable version of Procol Harum's "Homburg" with his brother
> Terry channeling Gary Brooker's voice to quite an extent.
Thank you for taking the time to listen. I agree it's a splendid
number. :-)
And re the record company thing: I've wondered this myself. It's a
shambles out there these days what with every man and his milkman
doing an album. But hopefully it'll eventually level out and those
that aren't so serious will pack up their kit and walk home. hahaha.
Peter.
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Message: 24
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:52:08 EST
From: lightning
Subject: Re: Monkees - I Wanna Be Free
I Wanna Be Free was never released as a single. It appears
on their first album, "The Monkees" (Colgems 101) and
"The Monkees Greatest Hits" (Colgems 115)
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Message: 25
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:33:26 -0000
From: Jeff Lemlich
Subject: Re: Gary Stites
Country Paul:
> "Superoldies" asked about Gary Stites, who had "Lonely For You"
> on Carlton (1959). There's a citation for a website for one
> Sammy Hall, a minister; the Google sample reads: "This marks the
> first time Gary Stites takes a producer's credit on a Birdwatchers
> single. ... Gary Stites recycled 'She Tears Me Up' for the flip of
> this as well." However, the website is under re-construction, and
> the document with this reference is gone. (The Birdwatchers are
> also referenced in Fuzz Acid & Flowers.)
Hi Paul,
The narrative on Sammy Hall's site was reproduced from a story I
wrote on the Limestone Lounge. The full text can be found here:
http://tinyurl.com/3bk6s
The last I'd heard of Gary Stites, he was retired and living in
Ocala, Florida. That was several years ago and I've lost track of
him since then.
Jeff Lemlich
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