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SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 23 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Jackie and Gayle
From: Mikey
2. Re: Carl Hall
From: Simon White
3. Re: Radio Radio
From: James Botticelli
4. Re: Jackie & Gayle / Short albums
From: Andrew Jones
5. Re: Four Tops and Spector
From: Martin Jensen
6. Re: Short albums
From: Paul Bryant
7. Re: Gay recordings / Teddy and Darrell LP on Mira
From: Art Longmire
8. Re: Lonnie Donegan
From: Paul Bryant
9. Re: Carl Hall / Bobby Darin
From: That Alan Gordon
10. Re: Four Tops and Spector
From: Bill Reed
11. Speedy West passes
From: Neb Rodgers
12. Re: Del (Dell) Vikings & Gus Backus
From: Bill Reed
13. Re: Jackie and Gayle
From: John Fox
14. Re: Phil S. on the air / key changes / Carl Hall
From: Phil Milstein
15. Re: the dawn of folk-rock / e-z listening
From: Phil Milstein
16. Re: Kit Kats in Philly/Radio
From: S.J. Dibai
17. Re: Carl Hall
From: Ken Mortimer
18. Re: Del (Dell) Vikings again
From: Allan Rinde
19. Re: Orpheus Cover The Fab 4 (Rare Demo @ Musica)
From: Mike Dugo
20. More That Alan Gordon at musica
From: Bill George
21. Re: Gay, Lesbian & Cross Gender GG songs
From: Bill George
22. Chicago / Beatles and Eddy / Let It Be / Innocent Fame
From: Albabe Gordon
23. Re: Sinatra concept albums
From: Peter McDonnell
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:45:19 -0500
From: Mikey
Subject: Re: Jackie and Gayle
SD45john asked:
> Does anyone know whatever became of the two 1960s girl singers,
> Jackie and Gayle? They appeared on some of the early Shindig
> TV shows and also in the teen movies, Wild On The Beach (1965)
> and Wild Wild Winter (1966). I love their song, 'Our Love's
> Gonna Snowball' from the movie Wild Wild Winter.
Jackie and Gayle are an act that history has pretty much
forgotten, altho' they were very popular for a short time
in 1965/66.
They were signed to Mainstream Records and had a small novelty
hit with "Mr Novack" (or something like that). But its their
later singles on Mainstream, especially "It's The Thought That
Counts" are as good as ANYTHING by any female group in rock.
Really nice soft pop.
I have tried to get some of the smaller labels like ERIC and
Taragon to do a Jackie and Gayle "Complete" CD, but I'm always
told that since Sony owns the Mainstream catalog now (it was
bought by CBS/Columbia in the 1970s) that they would demand
10,000 units sales minimum, and that this is a release where if
they sell 3000 they would be lucky.
Which brings up another point. Why oh WHY aren't the major
labels setting up internet-only download sites for material
like this? Let them charge $5 a song for this stuff that they
won't press. At least collectors would be able to get it.
Mikey
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:59:56 +0000
From: Simon White
Subject: Re: Carl Hall
Mick Patrick wrote:
> Thanks a lot for the Carl Hall stories. I notice that another of
> the singers featured on the Alley & the Soul Sneekers LP was
> (ex-Ikette) Vanetta Fields. By any chance, is this the "Nettie" to
> whom Carl's married? We seem to be agreed, he's one of the best
> vocalists there ever was. "The Dam Busted", anyone? Awesome pipes!
I've missed this whole thread! I'm a bit partial to Carl's voice
meself. "You're So Qualified" is my personal favourite.
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:33:16 -0500
From: James Botticelli
Subject: Re: Radio Radio
Stewart Mason wrote:
> Our own DJ Jimmy Bee was around for this show's genesis, and he can
> tell you that the overriding concept of the show has been to play
> all the songs commercial oldies stations miss.
I was the originator of Lost & Found at WMBR and we did precisely what
Stewart describes. The bickering was between people who leaned in a
spectropoppish direction like me or the endless stream of deadheads
who wanted shows that played 15 minute live album cuts, etc. Phil
Milstein was part that show's staff for a while as well. We agree that
the show has gotten a bit too dead-ish but then again I haven't
listened for awhile. One of the guys does a "bubbling under the hot-
100" segment that's pretty interesting.
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:44:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Jones
Subject: Re: Jackie & Gayle / Short albums
SD45John: I've actually been in touch with Gayle Caldwell, and she told
me she's starting up an e-mail list - I don't know if it'll go with a
website or what. If I hear anything else I can let you, and others,
know.
And as for short albums: I haven't heard it, but I'm told the album
EXCURSIONS by the Tradewinds (Anders & Poncia), on Kame Sutra, is one of
the shortest LPs ever released.
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:08:25 -0000
From: Martin Jensen
Subject: Re: Four Tops and Spector
Bob Rashkow wrote:
> If The Left Banke hadn't done it first, I could easily imagine The
> Four Tops' noble attempt at "Walk Away Renee" with the Spector
> touch.....or how about the B-side, "Your Love Is Wonderful".....or
> the soulful, super-bad "I Got A Feelin'", the B-side of "Bernadette"
> .....or, for that matter, "Bernadette"! ! ! Interesting, how
> Spector was one of those who successfully bridged the gap between
> mere "pop" and the prevalent R&B styles in the early and mid-6Ts.
They also did a great song called 'Wonderful Baby', which had some
Spectoresque touches such as castanets and a prominent string
arrangement. I think it was on the 'Reach Out' album... Man, I would
really have loved to hear some of the tracks you mention given the
full Spector treatment. Levi Stubbs' earthquake of a voice, and
Spector in unison? It would have been massive!
With regards
Martin, Denmark
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:32:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Short albums
And after albums became seen as the thing to do if you
were serious, by default singles were what you did if
you were trivial, so that after about 1968/9 the art
of the pop single began to decline disastrously. (See
Ian Macdonald's Revolution in the Head for a brilliant
version of this argument.)
However there were album charts since the 1950s - I
have them in a book. They were full of soundtracks to
Broadway shows, and Nat King Cole, right up until the
time you refer to.
pb
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:12:41 -0000
From: Art Longmire
Subject: Re: Gay recordings / Teddy and Darrell LP on Mira
While we're on the subject of gay recordings, I wanted to ask if
anyone else has heard the Teddy & Darrell LP on Mira? It dates
from 1966 and features an openly gay duo taking on a bunch of the
hits of the day. When it comes to gay cover versions, this one's
a classic of sorts.
Art Longmire
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:26:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Bryant
Subject: Re: Lonnie Donegan
Yes, I don't disagree, and I particularly like your
point about records with a different feel or sound.
And trying to locate these firsts is, I guess, the pop
fan's equivalent of figuring out how many angels can
dance on the head of a pin (or needle). So there's my
disclaimer!
You can't push the origins of folk rock back before
rock and roll itself, and I would also respectfully
argue that there are instrumental components without
which a song really can't be rock or folk rock. So I
don't think Leadbelly originated skiffle. He inspired
the originators, and provided the skifflers with most
of their songs. Lonnie's first skiffle records
employed the same propulsive techniques as Elvis'
"That's Alright Mama" - but soon Lonnie, like Elvis,
began to use real drums, and in came an electric
guitar too. And when that happened, as on "Tom
Dooley", it just wasn't skiffle anymore. And since
"Tom Dooley" was accepted as an American folk song (in
spite of its history) then what could we really call
Lonnie's record except..... folk rock! Go Lonnie! Rock
that folk!
(Everything went quiet after Lonnie, and the Peter
Paul & Mary tendency took over the folk revival for a
few years until booted out by Bob and his Subterranean
Homesick Blues. For an essential overview of this
strand of American music see Tommy Roe, "The Folk
Singer", 1962 - "Lavished in glory, fortune at his
feet/The folk singer/Awoke one morning and he couldn't
speak"!!!)
pb
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:30:59 -0700 (MST)
From: That Alan Gordon
Subject: Re: Carl Hall / Bobby Darin
Mick Patrick, Carl Hall's wife Nettie is not Vanetta Fields [another
great voice] and thank you Mick for posting the song, and the nice
thoughts for this new grandad.
Here's another good Carl Hall story. We were in the studio doing a
demo when a friend of mine who was a producer stopped by to check
things out. The producer [who shall remain nameless] is a very, very
neat, short conservative and quiet guy was introduced to Carl who
sized him up and said with a smile "You`ve got T.F.P". I asked Carl
"what the hell is T.F.P." Carl raised his eyebrows, looking intently
at the man and replied "TREMENDOUS FREAK POTENTIAL"!!! I love Carl
Hall.
Bill Reed wanted to know if I had any backround info on "Whatever
Happened To Happy". Not too much Bill, only one thing, the Darin
version has Bobby singing the last line of the song which is crucial
to the lyrical idea. The Righteous Brothers left it out.
Speaking of Darin, if you get to listen to "She Knows", here's a
story about that. Garry and I were in the studio with Bobby when he
did it. During the instrumental break in the song, I suggested to
Bobby that he throw in a couple of hey hey heys. He quickly turned
me down and said "I've done that already a couple of times on
differant songs." I pleaded with him, "C'mon Bobby, do it for me."
He reluctantly agreed and did it. Now whenever I hear that part in
the song, I kinda smile and say to myself, he did that for me.
Thanks Bobby!
Best, That alan
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:08:55 -0000
From: Bill Reed
Subject: Re: Four Tops and Spector
Martin Jensen wrote:
> They also did a great song called 'Wonderful Baby', which had some
> Spectoresque touches such as castanets and a prominent string
> arrangement. I think it was on the 'Reach Out' album...
This is a great Tops cut. Every castanetist in Motown must have been
called in for this one. Kettle drums for miles. Just beautiful!
Pluperfect Spector.
By the way, that ersatz Spector track by the Dutch group Gasolin'
that Martin played is really nice. Is it typical of their "sound"?
Bill Reed
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:14:01 -0000
From: Neb Rodgers
Subject: Speedy West passes
Without a doubt, one of the best steel guitar players, ever.
- Neb
Taken from:
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/local/7280425.htm
BROKEN ARROW, Okla. - Wesley Webb "Speedy" West, whose innovative
steel-guitar licks made him one of the best on the instrument, died
Saturday. He was 79.
West was born in Springfield, Mo., and moved to the West Coast
following World War II. He eventually landed a job with the popular
western-swing band of Oklahoma expatriate Spade Cooley.
Taking a cue from recording star Alvino Rey, who introduced the pedal-
steel guitar to pop audiences, West had a custom instrument that
featured three necks and four pedals. He became the first country-
music steel-guitarist to use pedals.
He was Capitol Records' first-call steel player from 1950 through
1956.
"I broke the all-time record for anyone playing any instrument," he
said in an interview. "During that time, I played on more than 6,000
records for 177 different artists, both pop and country - Bing
Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Dinah Shore, the big bands of Nelson Riddle
and Billy May, Jim Reeves."
.......
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:14:23 -0000
From: Bill Reed
Subject: Re: Del (Dell) Vikings & Gus Backus
Country Paul wrote:
> "Whispering Bells" was the Dot Records follow-up to "Come
> Go With Me." The Del Vikings had cleaved in twain........
Point of info: Gus Backus, of the original Del Vikings, went on
to have a major one hit wonder in Japan with his '64 single
"Short On Love." Most here probably know that he also went on
to become a major rockabilly performer . . . in Germany.
Bill
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:22:08 EST
From: John Fox
Subject: Re: Jackie and Gayle
SD45John asked:
> Does anyone know whatever became of the two 1960s girl
> singers, Jackie and Gayle?
No, but I believe they are the answer to the trivia question,
"Who was the first act to appear on Shindig?" I believe they
opened the first show as the first singers in a medley that
eventually included all of the regulars (Blossoms, Righteous
Brothers, etc.) and that week's guests. If my memory serves
me, I think they started with the gospel tune "Up Above My Head"
(also great trivia - gospel kicking off a show dedicated to
rock & roll?).
John Fox
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:33:11 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: Phil S. on the air / key changes / Carl Hall
John Fox wrote:
> This was a very small part of the KHJ Los Angeles "History
> of Rock and Roll", a 48-hour radio documentary produced in
> the early 1970s.
Do any of y'all have a copy of this? It sounds fascinating.
jerophonic wrote:
> The Drifters' "On Broadway" is another. With no bridge, no
> chorus and only two key changes, it's more understated than
> the Toys, Four Seasons or Twitty recordings. And it's got a
> Spector guitar solo to boot. A perfect record.
I'm curious what you mean by "only" two key changes, jerophonic.
Don't most songs have zero? (I'm not trying to show you up or
anything, but I am musically pretty ignorant, and see an
opportunity to try to learn something here.)
Mick Patrick wrote:
> Thanks a lot for the Carl Hall stories. I notice that another
> of the singers featured on the Alley & the Soul Sneekers LP was
> (ex-Ikette) Vanetta Fields. By any chance, is this the "Nettie"
> to whom Carl's married? We seem to be agreed, he's one of the
> best vocalists there ever was. "The Dam Busted", anyone?
> Awesome pipes!
Talk about my ignorance -- I am embarrassed to say I have never
before heard of this cat who so many of you attest to having the
greatest voice of them all. Can we get a (witness!) brief
overview of his career, or should we check the Archives for that?
--Phil M.
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:48:11 +0000
From: Phil Milstein
Subject: Re: the dawn of folk-rock / e-z listening
"Turn Turn Turn," Richie Unterburger's first book on folk-rock,
does a very good job (I thought) of both defining the term and
tracing its genesis. I imagine those more expert than I on the
matter could find some fault with his presentation, but this
middling fan of the genre found the first entry (haven't gotten
to "8 Mi. High" yet) highly enlightening.
Paul Bryant wrote:
> However there were album charts since the 1950s - I
> have them in a book. They were full of soundtracks to
> Broadway shows, and Nat King Cole, right up until the
> time you refer to.
Not to mention the Melachrino Strings! (or, in Europe, James Last)
--Phil M.
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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:06:26 -0000
From: S.J. Dibai
Subject: Re: Kit Kats in Philly/Radio
Nick wrote:
> It's one of my favorite songs of all time, and really brings
> back the feeling of Philadelphia radio in the 60s. If the
> stations there are ignoring their heritage, and not playing
> all the great music made right there, it's a shame.
I don't listen to much oldies radio anymore, but the big oldies
station here, WOGL Oldies 98, used to play plenty of national
hits by Philly artists. But if it wasn't a national hit, well...
they played local R&B hits but not local pop hits. I don't know
if that was an official policy, but I used to hear Billy Harner's
"Sally's Sayin' Somethin'" in regular rotation, not "Let's Get
Lost On A Country Road."
I can remember hearing the Kit Kats only once on Oldies 98. See,
Philly's a big Motown city, and 98 used to have "Motown Monday,"
on which they'd feature Motown heavily and conclude with a Motown
show. But a few years ago, there was some kind of sports faceoff--
I don't follow sports closely, but I think it was the Philadelphia
Flyers versus the Detroit Red Wings. Well, Philadelphians tend to
take sports very seriously, so 98 rather nastily put Motown Monday
on hiatus, and the deejay who hosted that show decided to do an all-
Philly show that night. I thought this was unnecessary: can't we
separate Detroit's music from its sports teams? But anyway, the
deejay played one track and announced the artist as the Kit Kats. I
was a huge oldies fan who had Philly running through his veins and
yet, my response was, "Who the hell are the Kit Kats?"
Incidentally, I think the track he played was "Distance," which is a
Spanky & Our Gang cover. But don't hold me to that.
S.J. Dibai
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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:18:35 -0000
From: Ken Mortimer
Subject: Re: Carl Hall
Mick Patrick wrote:
> Thanks a lot for the Carl Hall stories. I notice that another of
> the singers featured on the Alley & the Soul Sneekers LP was
> (ex-Ikette) Vanetta Fields. By any chance, is this the "Nettie" to
> whom Carl's married?
Could this be Nettie Gloud perhaps?
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 00:38:09 -0000
From: Allan Rinde
Subject: Re: Del (Dell) Vikings again
Allan Rinde wrote:
> When the group did cleave (because most of the members were
> underage at the time of their original contract, but Kripp
> Johnson was not and couldn't leave) you had the unusual
> situation of two different recordings, on two different labels,
> of the same songs, ostensibly by the same group - "I'm Spinning"
> b/w "When I Come Home." This, I believe, was the first Mercury
> single, quickly followed (as the inevitable lawsuit was settled),
> by "Cool Shake."
My bad. I really shouldn't write these things in the middle of the
night. Almost everything I said is incorrect in some fashion.
Checking over my old 45s, I see that "Cool Shake" was the first
Mercury single, followed by "What'cha Got To Lose" and then "I'm
Spinning"(which was either the same master or at least from the same
session as the Dot release). So, apologies to Country Paul. (It also
seems that despite being released as a Del-Vikings records, "What
Made Billy Run" was actually the group backing a singer named Joey
Briscoe). FYI, the group's name was spelled differently on each of
the first three Dot singles I own, which may just be due to them being
pressed at different plants (pretty common in those days) who each
printed their own labels. Although "Whispering Bells" was recorded
before the group split, it was probably not released till after,
thus the label credit "Dell-Vikings featuring Krips Johnson." Despite
the label credit, Mr. Johnson's actual nickname appears to be not
Krips but Kripp. When they got to Mercury, it offically became Del
Vikings. As far as Gus Backus goes, he didn't join the group until
after "Come Go With Me" and didn't leave until after the first Mercury
LP and a few singles and appeared with the group in the Alan Freed
movie, "The Big Beat". The reissues I was praising came out on a
Danish label called Sparkletone. Due to the group being in the
service, the personnel changed often, and there seemed to be some
different members on each single. All in all, a pretty inaccurate
post on my part, so my apologies to the group.
But I still love the Del Vikings.
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:27:07 -0000
From: Mike Dugo
Subject: Re: Orpheus Cover The Fab 4 (Rare Demo @ Musica)
I've been in communication with Eric Gulliksen of Orpheus, and he
informed me a while ago that the band recorded "Good Day Sunshine"
for a Boston talk show named O.B.W (he doesn't recalled what that
stood for), so it's not a demo in the truest sense of the word.
They also recorded "Shalla" and "Big Green Pearl" at the same
sessions. A later version of Orpheus recorded "Big Green Pearl",
too, but "GDS" and "Shalla" were never re-recorded.
Mike Dugo
60sgaragebands.com
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:39:56 -0000
From: Bill George
Subject: More That Alan Gordon at musica
I've had two requests to post Jackie DeShannon's version of "Me About
You" to musica. So voila... here it is. Later I will post "I'm With
You", completing the trio. But first I'll post Bruce Springsteen's
cover of When You Walk in the Room.
Is anyone interested in hearing a Stu Phillips' tune recorded by Barbi
Benton? (hint: you SHOULD be interested!)
- Bill
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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:56:43 EST
From: Bill George
Subject: Re: Gay, Lesbian & Cross Gender GG songs
JD writes:
> Naturally my additional motive is to spur some posts and have folks
> tell me of all the ones I've overlooked...:) Please, Please do
> that..:)
Jackie DeShannon recorded several demos from a "boy's" perspective. And
in another way, Lisa Hartman recorded a song called "Johnny's Always On
My Mind" about falling in love with a gay guy. Kind of like "Johnny Are
You Queer Boy" by Josie Cotton.
- Bill
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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:12:49 -0800
From: Albabe Gordon
Subject: Chicago / Beatles and Eddy / Let It Be / Innocent Fame
Do any Chicago fans out their know anything about a re-release of
"Chicago: At Carnegie Hall, Vols. 1-4 (Chicago IV)" by Rhino with
their new Chicago remastering project? I also hear that the "Live
in Japan 1972" album is groovy... any comments about that one?
Let It Be... Naked Fans: There is a nice track-by-track detail of
which takes were used and what was done to them, in the latest issue
of I.C.E. (#201). I.C.E. posts all their magazine articles on their
site about a month after the magazine hits the stands. A good read.
Steve Harvey:
> Tuning down a halfstep in order to hit the high notes was a popular
> trick among singers. Labelmates, Buck Owens and Don Rich, use to
> drop their Teles all the time.
Thanx a bunch Steve. (More below) But first... more Beatles: I
found out from Lewisohn's book that the first and third Ed Sullivan
"Beatles Sundays" were done that first Sunday in NY. They taped their
first performance - the one to be shown after they left town - and
then did their "first" live Ed show. They, then, did a quickie tour
of the east coast, ending up in Florida for their second live
appearance on the show a week later. Then the following week Ed
showed the performance that was taped and in the can from the first
session before their first live show. So, it would seem that their
first 2 (two) actual performances that same Sunday where on guitars
tuned down to Eb. Or the speed of those shows are off by a half-step
south.
Besides what Steve said above... Back before "slinky" strings, I
know a lot of folks used to tune down their guitars to get a bit more
stretch outta 'em. It also made for an interesting fuller sound when
you took it a whole-step down to "D." It's also the way we used to
play bottle neck, by tuning our slide guitars down to a "D" tuning
- but with an "E" finger configuration. But I think what Steve said
is probably what happened on those Eddy shows... unless someone else
knows the wiser(?)
steveo:
> steve...do you have perfect pitch?...or how are you noticing this
> tuning down a 1/2 step?
I certainly can't answer for Steve, but as for moi... I watch the
little TV that I do watch (It's actually a big TV... 37 flat inches
of my compensating for something) with my (unplugged) Strat tuned to
concert pitch, in my lap. It keeps my hands busy, and stops me from
eating a bunch of crap - hence turning me into a bigger fleshy
refrigerator than I already am - while I sit there motionless for a
few hours. And since it's unplugged, my Girlfriend has stopped
smacking me with her knitting. Anyway... that's why I know what key
everything is in.
Country Paul: I always sorta feel like I'm on the radio when you
quote me. I kinda like it.
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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:18:41 -0800
From: Peter McDonnell
Subject: Re: Sinatra concept albums
Richard Havers:
> I think it's generally accepted that Frank Sinatra recorded the
> first concept albums (putting head above parapet and awaiting the
> first shot). 'In the Wee Small Hours of The Morning', 'Songs For
> Swinging Lovers' and 'Come Fly With Me', from the fifties, were all
> conceptually based. Interestingly, Sinatra's early '78 rpm albums'
> were often entirely made up of songs that were not released as
> 'singles'.
Richard, And don't forget 1958's 'Only the Lonely', a concept album
in the sense that it was organized around songs that had a similar
emotional somberness, on which the classics "One For My Baby", "Blues
In The Night" and his version of "Ebb Tide". appear. This also had one
of his best album covers, a chalk drawing of Frank's face, half in
shadow against a black background, with him made up in whiteface, a
slight tear shape drawn on his cheek.
friscopedro
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