The Spectropop Group Archives presented by Friends of Spectropop

[Prev by Date] [Next by Date] [Index] [Search]

Spectropop V#0008

  • From: The Spectropop Group
  • Date: 11/6/97
  • ===========================================================
        __| __ \   _ \  __| __|  __| _ \  __ \   _ \  __ \  
      \__ \ |   |  __/ (    |   |   (   | |   | (   | |   | 
      ____/ .__/ \___|\___|\__|_|  \___/  .__/ \___/  .__/  
           _|                            _|          _|  
       Volume #0008                                 11/07/97
    Subject:     Sunshine Lollipops
    Sent:        11/6/97 8:05 AM
    Received:    11/6/97 9:15 AM
    From:        Javed Jafri,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    My first post to the group. Once again thanks to Jamie for inviting me. I 
    look forward to participating.
    A few items :
    As far as my fave version of "I wonder What She's Doing Tonight". I have 
    always liked both and so I'd like to say it's a tie but if push comes to 
    shove I'd pick.....well actually I'm not sure.
    I read the book on Spector that Jack Madani spoke of and found it quite 
    fascinating, In fact I have read it several times over the last few 
    years. I think it offers good insight into the era of classic 
    Finally, I wanted to mention a recent article in the British mag "Record 
    Collector" about "Sunshine Pop" The article discusses post Brit Invasion 
    American pop/harmony groups with mention of everyone from the Tradewinds 
    to the Turtles to The Love Generation to The Sunshine Company. Curiously 
    no mention is made of Spanky and Our Gang. There were some interesting 
    discogrophies listed that made my mouth water and left me with an urge to 
    head straight to my favorite record store.  I enjoyed the article and 
    suggest it to everyone on this list. It might have been in the Sept. 
    Javed Jafri
    -----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
    Subject:     Flowerpot Men
    Sent:        11/6/97 9:57 AM
    Received:    11/7/97 2:04 AM
    From:        David Marsteller,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Jack was asking about The Flowerpot Men. (sound of shuffling CDs) I know  
    that CD is around here someplace! Well I believe they were essentially a  
    studio group. There's a CD compilation, but it's a few years old and may  
    be out of print by now. In any case, the ubiquitous (is that the right  
    word?) Tony Burrows was in at least one lineup of the Flowerpot Men,  
    before being in Edison Lighthouse etc. There *is* in fact a Flowerpot Men 
     track, "In A Moment Of Madness", on the Tony Burrows comp, and I have 
    the  vague feeling it's on the Flowerpot Men CD as well. Where is that 
    CD? I just got a CD in the mail called "Beat At Abbey Road". It looks 
    like it  will be an interesting compilation. It has the usual Hollies, 
    Gerry And  The Pacemakers, but also obscure acts like The Naturals and 
    The  Paramounts. I'll try to listen to it tomorrow morning and make a few 
    /**   "Reach out and grab a fistful of now"                            **/
    /**                                             Thornetta Davis        **/
    /**      David Marsteller                       **/
    -----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
    Subject:     Re: Flowerpot Men
    Sent:        11/6/97 7:01 AM
    Received:    11/6/97 9:15 AM
    From:        David Bash,
    To:          Spectropop  List,
    > From:        Jack Madani,
    > And now for my own very latest "discovery," a band I'd never heard of
    > until I had the pleasure of listening to a handful of cuts of theirs on a
    > tape that Francis Greene recently sent me:  The Flowerpotmen.  It's
    > fanTAStic stuff, "truly"-petsounds-style instrumental tracks with vocals
    > that remind me of the Turtles.  Can I send out a call please for more
    > information about them?  Are they honest to goodness as good as "Let's Go
    > To San Francisco," "A Walk In The Sky," "Am I Losing You," "Silicon
    > City," and "Man Without A Woman" lead me to believe?
    Hi Jack,
    I agree with you about the Flower Pot Men being fantastic, and here's 
    what I know about them:
    The Flower Pot Men were a late 60s British band led by John Carter and 
    Ken Lewis, who had previously led The Ivy League, who some of you may 
    know as doing the original version of "My World Fell Down", which has 
    become better known as being done by Sagittarius.  Carter and Lewis 
    brought Tony Burrows and Robin Shaw on board, and then later Neil Landon 
    and Pete Nelson to complete the Flower Pot Men Lineup.
    Their only chart hit was "Let's Go To San Francisco", which reached #4 on 
    the UK charts, although it never charted in the US.  Upon hearing this 
    song for the first time (in 1979), I had thought it was written on the 
    heels of Scott McKenzie's "San Francisco" (written by John Phillips of 
    The Mamas & The Papas), but I doubt it given that they were released 
    around the same time.  Anyway, they had many wonderful singles including 
    "You Can Never Be Wrong" "A Walk In The Sky" and "In A Moment Of Madness".
    In 1969 the band broke up and Carter & Lewis went on to greater fame as 
    members of First Class, where they penned the 1974 hit "Beach Baby", 
    which was Top 5 in several countries including the U.S.  Tony Burrows 
    went on to sing lead for several bands, including White Plains ("My Baby 
    Loves Lovin"), Edison Lighthouse ("Love Grows") and the aforementioned 
    First Class on "Beach Baby".
    I would highly recommend The Flowerpot Men compilation on Repertoire 
    Records, called "Let's Go To San Francisco", which contains 21 of their 
    tracks, including many that had been previously unreleased.  If you can't 
    find that one, I believe there's another comp available though I can't 
    think of the label.
    Pop Rules!!!!!
    Take Care,
    -----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
    Subject:     Ginger Glantz and Pamela Lee
    Sent:        11/6/97 4:55 AM
    Received:    11/6/97 9:15 AM
    From:        DerekAldenBill,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Here's a topic I've never seen discussed before online, so why not now?
    How about an informal poll of listees on the subject of the relative 
    merits of the Honeys' respective voices.
    Marilyn always kind of turned me on, but I can barely stand to listen to 
    her sing. There's a certain Fran Dresheresque quality to her voice (and 
    Diane's, too) that I just can't get past.
    Ginger's another story - - sounds like the Glantz genes were the ones to 
    have - - and of course she was more photogenic....I don't expect many to 
    disagree there......
    Her vocal work is excellent - - and versatile. Listen to her rock on 
    "Hide Go Seek" and contrast it to "Goodnight, My Love"....
    Anyway,  with regard to discovering new music from the early 60s, Brian's 
    productions have certainly had their fans, but I still feel they're 
    underrated. Why didn't "He's A Doll" get any airplay or chart 
    The Beach Boys could go into a studio today and cut "She's A Doll" or 
    "Pamela Lee" ( just a few lyric changes would update either one for Ms. 
    Anderson - - they could even get a guest shot on "Baywatch"!) and get 
    some action out if it, I should think.
    Hey, it couldn't do any worse than their last album did........
    -----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
    Subject:     Re: Carter-Lewis / Ronettes in stereo
    Sent:        11/6/97 4:10 AM
    Received:    11/7/97 2:04 AM
    To:          Spectropop List,
    >Can I send out a call please for more information 
    >about (The Flowerpot Men)?  
    I too would like to know more. Their story is really the story of a 
    circle of songwriter/producers from Great Britain that is often quickly 
    passed over. I know very little background, hopefully others on the list 
    can help fill in the blanks. The people involved with this circle were 
    writers/producers John Carter and Ken Lewis, and two Rogers (Cook and 
    Greenaway). Other names that often pop up in this story are Tony Burrows, 
    Tony Macauley, John Macleod and Geoff Stephens. A very brief history:
    The Kestrels with Tony Burrows and Roger Greenaway 
    Carter-Lewis and the Southerners
    The Ivy League with John Carter and Ken Lewis
    John Carter out - Tony Burrows in (Carter continues writing and producing)
    John Carter, Ken Lewis, Robin Shaw and Tony Burrows record as The 
    Flowerpot Men 
    Edison Lighthouse "Love Grows (Where My Rosemary Goes)"
    White Plains "My Baby Loves Lovin'"
    Brotherhood Of Man "United We Stand"
    Tony Burrows "Melanie Makes Me Smile" 
    First Class" Beach Baby"
    For being lesser-known, they certainly got around. In various 
    combinations they wrote for many artists including Fortunes, Foundations, 
    Hollies, Herman's Hermits, Marmalade, Flying Machine, Pickettywicket, 
    Manfred Mann and the Music Explosion. Yikes!
    Anyway, here's a list of Flowerpot Men recordings (that I know of). I 
    already had it in text because I am trying to put together a discography 
    on Carter/Lewis. Any help will be appreciated.
    Am I Losing You 
    Blow Away
    Brave New World
    Busy Doin' Nothing
    Children Of Tomorrow
    Cooks Of Cake And Kindness
    Gotta Be Free
    Heaven Knows When
    In A Moment Of Madness 
    Journey's End
    Let's Go Back To San Francisco
    Let's Go To San Francisco (Part 1) 
    Let's Go To San Francisco (Part 2)
    Man Without A Woman 
    Mythological Sunday
    Piccolo Man 
    Silicon City
    Sweet Baby Jane
    A Walk In The Sky
    White Dove
    You Can Never Be Wrong 
    Young Birds Fly 
    Watson wrote:
    >Paul Urbahns writes:
    >>I am probably one of the few that actually like to hear Phil 
    >>Spector's work in stereo.
    >Aha!  Another heretic!  Come over here and join me at the stake, fella. 
    >Can I be the only person who genuinely prefers the stereo mix of the 
    >Ronettes album to the mono?  
    Ronettes is one thing. X'mas album is another. The Ronettes album stands 
    up in stereo. The problem I have with the X'mas album is not that it is 
    in stereo per se, but rather that the stereo mix sounds, well, different.
    >(Please put your axes down, folks, especially the Mark Linett 
    >custom ones that do the *really* thin slices).  
    >The Polydor reissue of the Ronettes album from the mid-1970s 
    >was in stereo, but I don't think the stereo mix has made it 
    >to CD; if it has, somebody *please* tell me.
    I assume the Polydor reissue means the PSI packages. That would be the 
    Ronettes album with the blue cover, right? I like this stereo mix too. 
    Yet, there is another. The Polydor reissue isn't fully spread L-R, it's 
    more balanced. But once upon a time...
    Capitol Records Club pressed their own stereo version of the album for 
    club members only. Since they offered titles in both mono and stereo, a 
    stereo mix was needed. The label says Philles, but the matrix number is 
    Capitol's. It is the definitive binaural mix. ABKCO/Spector will probably 
    never re-release either the Capitol or Polydor stereo mixes. 
    There was a 9 disc box set released in UK in the 80's. I never bought it 
    because the only "track" I didn't have was Lover by the Ronettes. Were 
    the tracks on that compilation in stereo, does anyone know?
    David R. Modny wrote:
    >I too prefer the stereo mixes. One of my current CD faves for 
    >this is  "The Ronettes - Ultimate Collection" ( although the 
    >Xmas cuts are mono :(  ). It's on the Marginal Records label 
    >out of Brussels. Sounds like a combination of a clean vinyl 
    >and tape source, but the best quality I've heard yet for some 
    >of these tracks, after hearing similar CD's of dubious 
    >legality. Anyone know of a better one, quality wise, for the 
    >'Ronettes' stuff in stereo ?
    It sounds like the Marginal CD is in stereo? At least the original album 
    tracks? I just bought "The Crystals - He's A Rebel - Ultimate Collection" 
    on the same label. The tracks are dubbed off vinyl and mastered through a 
    no noise system. Sound is very good to my ears, but then the tracks sound 
    like the original vinyl pressings, which I am quite fond of.
    -----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
    Subject:     songs vs. records
    Sent:        11/6/97 12:27 AM
    Received:    11/6/97 9:15 AM
    From:        Jack Madani,
    To:          Spectropop  List,
    >>I think the key question here is when did *sound* and/or performance  
    >>become more important or just as important as the song itself?
    >Absolutely. That was my point.
    In fact, I always have attributed the changeover from "songs" to 
    "records" to the Brian Wilson-slash-Beatles cold war of the mid-sixties.  
    Once Brian and the Fab Four retired from live performing, they began in 
    earnest to make "records," rather than the prior situation where they'd 
    write some songs at home and *then* come in to the studio to record them.
    Every year in February we have this thing at our school called 
    "Mini-Course Week."  I'm part of the team that teaches a minicourse 
    called The Sixties:  Decade of Upheaval.  My special lectures are the 
    Cuban Missile Crisis and.......Sixties Pop: From Songs to Records.  And 
    that's how I describe it:  between 1965 and 1967, Brian Wilson and 
    McCartney/Lennon/Martin got involved in a musical arms race that changed 
    how pop music was made.
    A good way to gauge whether a particular platter is thought of as a 
    "song" or as a "record," IMHO, is to see how often it gets covered by 
    other artists.  Early Beatles tunes are fairly often covered, 
    particularly by country artists, but not so many songs from Sgt. Pepper 
    or after get remade.  And as for Brian Wilson tunes, well fugettaboutit.  
    Almost nobody bothers to cover them.
    Jack Madani - Princeton Day School, The Great Road,
       Princeton, NJ  08540
    "It is when the gods hate a man with uncommon abhorrence that they
     drive him into the profession of a schoolmaster." --Seneca, 64 A.D.
    -----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
    Subject:     Beat At Abbey Road
    Sent:        11/6/97 9:55 PM
    Received:    11/7/97 2:04 AM
    From:        David Marsteller,
    To:          Spectropop  List,
    I've had a bit of a chance to listen to the new compilation Beat At Abbey 
     Road. It's quite a nice collection really. From what I can figure, the  
    only 'previously unreleased' track is a version of When You Walk In The  
    Room by Billy J. Kramer With The Dakotas. It's a surprisingly rocking  
    version, and the only Billy J. song I've heard thus far (well I haven't  
    heard many really) that wasn't awash in reverb. I know George Martin  
    wasn't fond of Billy's voice, but his vocal is fine here, and the Dakotas 
     sound really good! The credits have Mick Green on lead guitar. The  
    credits claim the track is unreleased in the U.K., I don't know about the 
     rest of the world. In skimming through the writing credits, it is 
    noticeable that only a few  of the 28 tracks are written by the groups 
    themselves, and most of those  are by the bigger groups (Hollies, Manfred 
    Mann, Gerry And The  Pacemakers). One amusing anecdote concerns the 
    recording debut of The  Whirlwinds, Graham Gouldman's early group. The 
    comp includes the A-side,  a cover of Buddy Holly's Look At Me, 
    apparently the B-side was a  composition by Gouldman's friend Lol Creme, 
    as Gouldman said "I had not  really started to write songs at this time." 
    Wow, Graham really started  his songwriting career with a bang, if he 
    wasn't 'really' writing in 1964  and was writing things like Bus Stop 
    shortly after! The other interesting  bit was how Gouldman, Creme, and 
    Kevin Godley all knew each other years before  starting 10CC. Anyhow, 
    this album has a number of similar early oddities, like The  Roulettes 
    with Russ Ballard, The Paramounts (later to be Procol Harum),  and 
    various bands with members of The Move.
    /**   "Reach out and grab a fistful of now"                            **/
    /**                                             Thornetta Davis        **/
    /**      David Marsteller                       **/
    -----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------
    Subject:     What If Smile Had Been Released?
    Sent:        11/6/97 3:47 PM
    Received:    11/7/97 2:04 AM
    From:        David Bash,
    To:          Spectropop  List,
    Hi everyone,
    I've been wondering about something for a long time, and since there's 
    been so much talk about the Pet Sounds Box and the proposed "Good 
    Vibrations Sessions", I thought I'd pose the following:
    What if Smile had actually been released in 1967, as planned?  How do you 
    think that would have impacted the Beach Boys career?  Do you think it 
    would not have affected the output of albums they actually did 
    subsequently released (i.e. would "Wild Honey", "Friends", "20/20", 
    "Sunflower" etc... or something like them come out anyway-I'm assuming 
    "Smiley Smile" would not have), or would it have altered their output 
    considerably, effecting a vast stylistic change?
    My opinion is that had Smile come out, it would have altered their output 
    considerably.  The press would have either lauded it as a profound work 
    of art, which probably would have created a great need in Brian to have 
    to top it with his next release, which probably would have been even more 
    experimental.  Or, the press would have vilified it as being too 
    unfocused and freaky, which may have caused Brian to head into a downward 
    spiral of a greater magnitude than the one he actually experienced, which 
    ultimately might have broken up the band right then, or at least caused 
    them to become an "oldies" band before their time.  
    I'm not sure which it would be, but one thing I'm confident of is that 
    nothing even remotely close to "Wild Honey" would have been released, and 
    in some ways I'm glad that "Smile" wasn't released, because "Wild Honey" 
    was showed the band to have such remarkable versatility; besides, I like 
    it a good deal more than any configuration of "Smile" I've heard.
    Okay, your turn to ramble, if you don't think this hypothetical is a 
    gross waste of your time.  :-)
    Spectropop Rules!!!!!
    Take Care,
    -----------[ archived by Spectropop ]-----------

    Click here to go to The Spectropop Group

    Spectropop text contents Spectropop unless stated otherwise. All rights in and to the contents of these documents, including each element embodied therein, is subject to copyright protection under international copyright law. Any use, reuse, reproduction and/or adaptation without written permission of the owners is a violation of copyright law and is strictly prohibited. All rights reserved.