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Spectropop - Digest Number 426

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There are 16 messages in this issue of Spectropop.

Topics in this Digest Number 426:

      1. Abba, "dumb music," elitism
           From: "Joseph Scott" 
      2. ? for Mr. Wirtz re: "Ice Cream Man"
           From: Jon Cook 
      3. Re: Let's Dance!
           From: Bob Rashkow 
      4. Re: Jimmie Rodgers
           From: Paul Underwood 
      5. Re: Rainy Day Bells
           From: "David Bell" 
      6. Philwit & Pegasus
           From: "Martin Roberts" 
      7. Soft As A Rock
           From: "David Ponak" 
      8. Re: "Smoke Two Joints"
           From: Jason Penick 
      9. Girly-Groups on Top
           From: "Brian Davy" 
     10. "Now" Sound '70
           From: James Botticelli 
     11. Re: 2 joints
           From: Billy G. Spradlin 
     12. Re: Let's Dance!
           From: Billy G. Spradlin 
     13. Pop Icons
           From: Stone Jones 
     14. Re: "You're No Good" -  who did the original version?
           From: "Peter Lerner"  
     15. not so cold
           From: Frank Youngwerth 
     16. RE: Let's Dance!
           From: "Norman" 


Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:27:56 -0700
   From: "Joseph Scott" 
Subject: Abba, "dumb music," elitism

Hi all,

This is a general observation about this topic; it's not
directed at anyone on this list.

Most record collectors are men, and most men (but by no
means all) are quite interested in perceiving their own
music listening tastes as not "feminine." Musical artists
who have a lot of appeal to women tend to be dismissed by
a large proportion of male record collectors as making
"inauthentic," dumb, commercial music, whether the
content of the music is dumb or not, and artists who make
music perceived as "masculine" tend to be accepted as
"authentically" good whether their music is dumb or not.
(Relative to the record "New York Mining Disaster 1941,"
the record "Pushin' Too Hard" is simple -- "dumb" --
music. But it only takes a little doublethink for a "real
man" to turn that around.)

In short, the Archies, Abba, etc. have cooties. Of course,
consider the Bee Gees for example: there are quite a lot
of men such as John Lennon and Bono who have publicly
praised the Bee Gees' music -- not afraid of cooties, I

Joseph Scott

-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:34:09 EST
   From: Jon Cook 
Subject: ? for Mr. Wirtz re: "Ice Cream Man"

Mr Wirtz - wanted to echo the appreciation for your
answering of questions. I've been a fan since college. I
spent a lot of time trying to reconstruct 'Teenage Opera'
>from tracks off of Bam Caruso re-issues. My question is
this: There's a track called 'Ice Cream Man' by the band
Clover. Not sure of the issue year, but I believe it's
1968. There are 2 versions, one of which, as has been
noted before, sounds a lot like a 'Teenage Opera' style
production- kids chorus, etc. Did you have any connection
with this or is it a coincidence/possible homage to your

Thanks very much -
  jon cook

-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 3
   Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:22:50 EST
   From: Bob Rashkow 
Subject: Re: Let's Dance!

Peter Lerner asked for some get-up-& dance music for his
wedding.  I hereby offer a very partial list of
Keep On Dancing    Gentrys 1966   MGM
Little Bit O' Soul       Music Explosion  1967  Laurie
Hold On, I'm Comin'    Sam & Dave  1967  Stax
(anything by Jay & The Techniques!  anything by the
Animals! anything by the Grassroots!)
Everybody          Tommy Roe  1963  ABC Paramount
Little Miss Sad    Five Empressions  1965  Freeport
Shake               Shadows of Knight  1968  Team
Dance To The Music  Sly/Family Stone  1968  Epic
Reach Out Of The Darkness    Friend/Lover  1968  Verve Forecast
Are these too obvious or not quite what you have in mind??!!
The list goes on & on & on & on.........Bobster

-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 4
   Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:15:09 +0100
   From: Paul Underwood 
Subject: Re: Jimmie Rodgers

Michael Edwards wrote:
> Great write-up on Jimmie Rodgers from Paul Payton. Jimmie
> is another one of our greats whose career is limited to 2
> songs by US oldies radio - and that's if he's lucky. From
> his Dot days, members should check out Jimmie's The World
> I Used To Know from 1964 - a song written by the poet, Rod
> McKuen. Don't be put off, the result is not poetry, just
> darned good pop music

Yes, Jimmie Rodgers is indeed one of the best. I do have a
preference, though, for his A&M work (up to his accident)
produced by Allen Stanton. Another McKuen song from that
period, "The Lovers", is a standout. There is a need for a
serious anthology of his fifties and sixties work.

And while we're on the subject of McKuen, some of his work
is not a million miles removed from the kind of material
regularly discussed on Spectropop. "Baby be my love", his
version of a Byrds-influenced French hit by Michel
Polnareff is pretty good. And he also made two tracks with
Jack Nitzche (arranged and conducted) in 1966: "The Loner"
and "Some trust in chariots".


-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 5
   Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:22:50 -0000
   From: "David Bell" 
Subject: Re: Rainy Day Bells

I hadn't realised that anyone other than Connie Francis
had recorded "Rainy Day Bells."

It's such an obscure track by her that I'm surprised that
anyone except the most hardened fan has heard of it!

Connie recorded it in London for UA in 1978, the year
after her Greatest Hits album hit number 1 over here.
However, it never made the "Who's Happy Now?" album and
remains well and truly locked in the vaults. She also
recorded a French version called "Symphonie Des Gouttes De
Pluie", which is also unreleased.

It's great to realise that I'm not the only Connie Francis
fan left in the world!!!!


-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 6
   Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:25:13 -0000
   From: "Martin Roberts" 
Subject: Philwit & Pegasus

Phil Chapman wrote:

> Perhaps if I promise not to upload the autographed
> dedication pic you sent to me at the time, I might be
> allowed to upload some/all of the album to musica?:-) 

Well, I think we've all waited long enough, what's it
to be? The picture (what horrible secrets are revealed
there) or musica enriched with tracks from the Philwit
& Pegasus LP? How about both?!


-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 7
   Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:56:51 -0800
   From: "David Ponak" 
Subject: Soft As A Rock

(Hey folks. Sorry about this self promotion, but I think
any Spectropoppers who happen to be in Los Angeles will
enjoy this show. How often does one get to hear "The
Drifter" performed live???)

"SOFT AS A ROCK" starring MELLO CADS happening Tuesdays in
April @ KNITTING FACTORY's "Alterknit Lounge."

KNITTING FACTORY's "Alterknit Lounge"
7021 Hollywood Blvd. (between La Brea and Highland)
8 PM SHARP show (Tuesdays in April: 2, 09 , 16 and 23)

SPECIAL $5 List, please RSVP to David Ponak:
... print out this email and bring it to the venue. See
the flyer at

Local lounge/soft pop band the Mello Cads mix magically
crafted originals and covers of classics and hidden gems
>from the likes of Burt Bacharach, Jimmy Webb, and Neil

Lead singer David Ponak (host of KPFK show "The Liquid
Room") and his fellow Cads have spent a good part of the
past 15 months in the studio with producer Linus Of
Hollywood to create the Mello Cads debut release, "Soft As
A Rock", out this Spring through Franklin Castle

CD features guest appearances from the legendary Paul
Williams, fellow Franklin Castle recording artist Kim Fox,
and Nick Walusko from the Wondermints, to name just a few.

-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:32:22 EST
   From: Jason Penick 
Subject: Re: "Smoke Two Joints"

Paul Payton observed:
> Speaking of TV, "The American Embassy" (new and OK, on Fox)
> used a white-reggae-novelty song called "Smoke Two Joints"
> on the soundtrack; I believe the record was originally
> from Hawaii in the '80's. I can't find a tape I have of it
> to get the artist's name - and I also thought only I and
> maybe a hundred other people around the world
> knew/remembered it. (I think Dr. Demento played it a
> couple of times in a less-PC era.) Any help, please?

>>"Smoke Two Joints" was recorded by the Toyes (with an E)
>>in Honolulu in 1983 and issued on a four-song 12-inch EP. 

This was also re-recorded by the band Sublime on their
excellent 1990 CD 40 OZ. TO FREEDOM.  Perhaps this is the
version you may have heard?  It was something of an
underground hit in the 90's.


-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:39:51 -0000
   From: "Brian Davy" 
Subject: Girly-Groups on Top

I recently acquired a rather dodgy German album called
"Girly-Groups On Top" (Trend 156.116).

As well as a bunch of songs like "Leader of the Pack" &
"Chapel of Love" that appear on every other budget Girl
Group album, there are a number of re-recordings & also a
few oddities.

There are songs by the Flirts & Lipstique that are surely
>from the disco era, but the real outsider on the album
has to be "Get a Job" by the Silhouettes!

In fact, the only track on it that has saved it from the
wheelie-bin is "I Need Your Love Tonight", a version of
the old Elvis B-side by someone called Martinique.

Does anybody out there have any info on this lady or the
recording? And talking of Elvis B-sides, does anyone know
where I can get a CD version of Gerri Granger's recording
of "Just Tell Him Jane Said Hello"?

Brian Davy

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Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:28:20 EST
   From: James Botticelli 
Subject: "Now" Sound '70

In keeping with my recent comment about no title ending
with '70 is ever bad, a new genre rears its head: Now
Sound '70. First artist: the Jerry Ross Symposium. Jerry
worked for Mercury Records for years where he produced
some outstanding soft pop records including "Sunny",
"Sunday Will Never Be The Same" ,"Apples, Peaches, Pumpkin
Pie", "The 81" by Candy and the Kisses, "Who Do You Love"
by the Sapphires, "Mr. Dream Merchant" by Jerry Butler and
the outstanding "When Loves Slips Away" by Dee Dee Warwick.
He went on to form Colossus Records in August, 1969 and
established the "Dutch" Sound with Tee Set's "Ma Belle
Amie", "Little Green Bag" by George Baker Selection, and
the world-famous Colossus maiden voyage "Venus" by
Shocking Blue. The Symposium is his "now sound" effort
with Dick Hyman on keys featuring many songs of the early
7T's on two separate LP's with female choruses and
wordless vocals..including "I Saw The Light", "Too Late To
Turn Back Now", and " "For The Love of Him" among
others...Highly recommended at this address

Jimmy Botticelli
Taking the EZ..Way Out!

-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 11
   Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:22:03 -0000
   From: Billy G. Spradlin 
Subject: Re: 2 joints

The Toyes "Smoke Two Joints" is on Rhino's "Dr. Demento's
30th Anniversary Collection - Dementia 2000!" CD Comp.
The punk-reggae group Subline also covered the song on
one of thier CD's. 

(Dont ask me why I know this too - I used to tape the
good doctor's show every sunday night and heard it there
first, plus it's kinda catchy.)


--- In spectropop, Dave Gardner wrote:
>  In a message dated Wed, 27 Mar 2002 "Paul Payton" writes:
> > 
> > Speaking of TV, "The American Embassy" (new and OK, on Fox)
> > used a white-reggae-novelty song called "Smoke Two Joints"
> > on the soundtrack; I believe the record was originally
> > from Hawaii in the '80's. I can't find a tape I have of it
> > to get the artist's name - and I also thought only I and
> > maybe a hundred other people around the world
> > knew/remembered it. (I think Dr. Demento played it a
> > couple of times in a less-PC era.) Any help, please?
> > 
> i think you mean the Toyes
> don't ask me why i remember...
> -dave

-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 12
   Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:37:13 -0000
   From: Billy G. Spradlin 
Subject: Re: Let's Dance!

> DJ JimmyBee on "Dancing Queen":
> >and put many spectropoppers to sleep who've heard it a 
> >jillion thymes.

I wouldnt be falling asleep - yeah the song has been
played a Zillion times since it was ABBA's only #1 in the
USA. Like most classic pop songs, too much oldies radio
airplay has killed the freshness. It's a nice combo of
Mamas & Papas harmonies (ooooh yeaaaah) meets Donna Summer
70's disco production. 

ABBA did record some fun danceable pop/bubblegum songs on
thier "Waterloo" and "ABBA" (known by fans as the "Limo"
LP) albums that could suprise dancers. "Dance (While the
Music Still goes On)" is one of my longtime faves, but
since it's a breakup song its not appro for a wedding! 

My Picks:
The Williows - Church Bells May Ring
Rare Earth -  Get Ready (the 45 version - It's got a
eaiser to dance to groove than the Temps classic)
James Brown - I Got You 
Contours - Do You Love Me? (the fake fade-out still
psych-out dancers) and Can You Do It?

-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 13
   Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:54:04 -0800 (PST)
   From: Stone Jones 
Subject: Pop Icons

Hi Folks:

All this conversation about "faceless" under
appreciated performers has gotten me feeling nostalgic
for The '50s.

(Great piece on Nilsson, Michael!)

I consider myself very fortunate that I became a
Teenager in the mid-50s as so many wonderful songs and
performers were emerging.  For the first time,young
people had a degree of influence and control in The
Music Industry.

For a couple of years, it was Music For Kids by Kids.

But Black or was not easy being a Pioneer
of what had become known as Rock and Roll.  Many Radio
Stations had "banned" Rock and Roll. Church Groups in
some parts of the U.S. were burning it.  The
would even try to stamp it out through Payola

Elvis was inducted into The Army.  Chuck was in jail. 
Richard had joined The Ministry.  Buddy, Ritchie, The
Bopper were dead.

By the end of the decade....most of The Music on The
Charts was Music by Adults for Kids.  This sanitized
Rock and Roll was often sung by someone named Bobby.

One of the few "Kids" who made Rock and Roll on his
terms in both The 50's and into The 60's became My
Hero.  He was rarely featured in magazines or
appeared on TV.  Yet he always seemed to be on The
Charts......but "beneath the radar".   And he didn't
just sing Rock and Roll.  In 1960 he created an
album of gospel and a country music tribute album to
Hank Williams which was good enough for Hank's widow
to invite him for dinner.

Yet, he also had 19 Singles on Billboard in the 41
months between June 1958 and November 1961.  Four of
them Top 10.

But he didn't just sing them.  He also wrote all
except one of them.  And produced almost all of them. 
Not just with Studio Musicians.  But, mostly,  with
his own band.

Just how easy to you think it was to accomplish all of
this while The Establishment around you was burning,
banning and legislating against your music?

In the mid-70's as I was producing a 64 hour radio
documentary called The Evolution of Rock, this
performer....Giovanni Scafone Jr.......became my
friend.  He had just come back from Europe where many
of his fans, including Led Zeppelin's Robert Plant,
brought him records to sign which were bootlegs.  So I
negotiated a record deal for a Greatest Hits package. 
My Bonus was writing the liner notes.   For My Hero.

Since then we've had many adventures together.  Ten
years ago, I even sang background for him on stage in
Clear Lake Iowa at the annual tribute to Buddy,
Ritchie and Bopper.  He headlined a show which
featured Carl Perkins and Wanda Jackson.

A couple of months ago we went out to a local casino
to see one of those "Bobbys" from The 60s....Bobby
Vee.  A few years ago, Vee's band which includes three
of his sons,  had recorded one of Giovanni's songs and
so were thrilled to be able to perform it in front of
him.  And Bobby himself, referred to Giovanni more
than a few times during what was an excellent
show.  But Vee was clearly nervous.

On January 26th, my pal Giovanni turned 66.  It was
quite a party. Naturally it was a concert with a few
hundred of his closest friends. Fittingly, it was at a
club  called TBonz located a mile or so from the big
barn near Detroit where he used to play regularly back
in 1955 and helped to define what became known as Rock
& Roll.

Is he in The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?  No.  Should
he be?  Of course I think so. Unfortunately there
doesn't seem to be a clear and established criteria

I have a suggestion.  How about this.

If you are a Rock and Roll Singer who first charted in
The 50s and have been able to support yourself and
your family  singing Rock and Roll for at least
40 are automatically inducted.

Hell...they ought to give you a Medal as well.

Check out

Warren Cosford

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Message: 14
   Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:53:13 -0000
   From: "Peter Lerner" 
Subject: Re: "You're No Good" -  who did the original version?

Original Message from "Michael Edwards"

> Does anyone know who first recorded "You're No Good"? 

I can't answer Michael's question, but quite the best
version of this song that I know, is by Barbara West on
Ronn 27, a great southern soul rendeing, coupled with Jeff
Barry's ballad Anyone But You. A double-sided treat!


-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 15
   Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:20:39 EST
   From: Frank Youngwerth 
Subject: not so cold

Thanks Don for motivating me to go back to the Archies for
another, more gratifying listen. My ears must have been
off that day. Then again, I'm now playing the same tracks
on a different system than then.

Just today at work, a co-worker and I agreed the new Gomez
CD sounds very good when you're listening out on the sales
floor, but only so-so when you're sitting at your desk up
on the mezzanine. Strange how aural perspective works.
Rockin' music always sounds better on a jukebox, doesn't
it? Or AM radio.

Au contraire, I love bubblegum. And Abba, without
qualification, "Dancing Queen" being no exception.

I didn't realize (or else forgot) Sedaka/Greenfield wrote
for Atlantic. I thought things started for them with "Oh
Carol." And to me, R&B implies more emphasis on emotion,
groove, and blues riffs than on hook-laden melodies e.g.
James Brown, Joe Turner, Mitch Ryder. But I love it all,
so why argue? 

Frank Youngwerth

-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

Message: 16
   Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:19:27 +1030
   From: "Norman" 
Subject: RE: Let's Dance!


I wrote the following contribution before Joseph Scott's
excellent input


Phil Chapman,


I remember in the early Eighties,  a pre-tutorial chat
(unrelated to the topic to be discussed),  I made the
statement that ABBA should not be discounted as an
influence.  In as much as The Beatles had more dynamics
attached to their persona, progressing at a time of
substantial social change, ABBA have to be content with
writing good pop songs without the social influence.

In as far as their music goes they were to the Seventies
what The Beatles were to the Sixties.  One measure being
how soon mainstream artists and other groups covered their

I was immediately put down.

Whether ABBA owe much to their style to the beer halls of 
Europe, the polka, carousel music or the Beatles it cannot
be denied their influence.

ABBA gave me the utter *s***s* when they were on top of
the charts, especially Fernando.   But so did the Beatles
in their day with some of their trite waste of studio time

Maybe two points about ABBA should be considered;

    are people put off by the tweeny, teenybopper and mom
    and dad  audiences they appeared to attract at their

    are people put off by the attention they received
    through movies like Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.

Don't worry you can like ABBA music. It doesn't mean that
you are going to turn into a tweenybopper...or anyone else.


-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------

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