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Spectropop - Digest Number 365


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                  the most exciting sound in the world

There are 15 messages in this issue of Spectropop.

Topics in this Digest Number 365:

      1. Re: Opinons are like noses - everyone has one
           From: "Don Charles" 
      2. re: THE JAYNETTS
           From: Mick Patrick 
      3. Re: Meditations upon a Wall
           From: Michael Marino 
      4. Re: Decades of meaningful popularity
           From: "Vincent Degiorgio" 
      5. Re: Sally Go 'Round The Roses
           From: Bryan 
      6. Over The Mountain, Across The Records
           From: "Paul Payton" 
      7. Kim Sisters 1970's
           From: "tsmbjjcd" 
      8. Re: Lost In Wonderland
           From: LePageWeb 
      9. Re: Laurie 45's
           From: "Justin McDevitt" 
     10. Amen Justin but!
           From: "Martin Roberts" 
     11. this just in from Tipsydave.
           From: James Botticelli 
     12. re: ETTA JAMES
           From: Mick Patrick 
     13. Jaynetthestized
           From: James Botticelli 
     14. Re: that thing you do!
           From: Billy G. Spradlin 
           From: Michael Rashkow 


Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:36:49 +0000
   From: "Don Charles" 
Subject: Re: Opinons are like noses - everyone has one

> Don Charles: Yes, "Mary on the Beach" is the other one.
> Also a real fine record. And I appreciate your mention
> of my favorite Bobby Bloom track, "Careful Not to Break
> The Spell." But, Don - Sha Na Na????????

Sha-Na-Na produced by Jeff Barry, and singing Jeff Barry
songs - voila la difference!

> I'm probably exhibiting elementary Spectropop ignorance
> here, but Don speaks of Jeff Barry in the present tense.
> Was I misinformed that he passed away a while back?

Not so! Jeff Barry is very much alive.

Don Charles

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Message: 2
   Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:51:29 +0000 (GMT)
   From: Mick Patrick 
Subject: re: THE JAYNETTS


I thought I should bring to the attention of everyone the
(Varese Sarabande 302 066 110 2, 2000). According to the
annotation, this newly assembled stereo version contains
the organ overdub from the 45 (presumably absent from
other reissues).

Sally Go Round the Roses

It's just struck me have suitable this song would have
been for Dusty Springfield. I closed my eyes and it could
have almost been her singing.

Varese CDs are known for their wonderful sound quality.
This one is no exception. (Yes, Phil, I'll bring it with
me tomorrow!).


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Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 06:49:19 -0000
   From: Michael Marino 
Subject: Re: Meditations upon a Wall

--- In Spectropop, "Paul Payton" wrote:

> Michael, allow me to philosophise: why does it have to be
> a compromise? I've always envisioned "the Wall" as "its
> own instrument." In whatever texture it adopts on a
> particular recording, it exists as if one was "playing an
> orchestra" on a keyboard. Thus, to me, the Wall can stand
> alone, or it can "surround" or "protect" what's going on
> inside or next to it. Examples: On the Spectors Three, "I
> Really Do," the embryonic wall (the lush velvet mix of
> voices and non-shrill electric guitars in the track)
> surrounds and supports the delicate lead vocal grouping
> and "dom-dooby-doms." (In my mind I can hear some
> Fleetwoods tracks produced in the same way.) In ATMP -
> and in Ronettes records - the Wall stands strongly
> behind the soloists out front. When I was playing in
> my band, I used to get shellacked by some of the
> other members because I viewed what we were playing
> less as a way to hear everyone's individual flash and
> more as a group effort of individuals in service to
> the creation of the total sound. To me, that's the
> philosophy of the Wall.


I agree with you that PS had to adapt his Wall of Sound
to the artist and style of music that was being
performed.  Perhaps the terminology "Wall of Compromise"
was not a good one, but I was complimenting PS on his
ability to bring out the best in George Harrison... ie.
by letting the great guitarwork (Eric Clapton's too, of
course) shine.  The material demanded that PS use a
slightly different approach.  He did, and we have all
been rewarded!


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Message: 4
   Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:49:40 -0500
   From: "Vincent Degiorgio" 
Subject: Re: Decades of meaningful popularity

----- Original Message from: "Michael Rashkow" 

> I note that Etta James just turned 64...Quite a talent.

Etta was elated earlier this year at having her first
dance hit in over twenty years. You gotta love someone
who has it all, and after all her accolades, she loved
the club remixes and told her A&R person "Honey, I'm a
disco star again"...this was on "Miss You" from her most
recent album...


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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:37:53 -0800
   From: Bryan 
Subject: Re: Sally Go 'Round The Roses

> Thanks for theJaynettes stuff - I 'm a bit confused with
> the Jaynettes/Hearts connection though. Are we saying
> that the Jaynettes were the Hearts? Time for a Jaynettes
> cd  anthology I think?

As I understand it, Tuff Record's Chicago-based
producer-label executive Abner Spector had expressed
interest that he was looking for material and a new girl
group to produce. By this point, he had already worked
with the Corsairs and the Tune Weavers

Spector liked "Sally Go 'Round The Roses," but wasn't
sure about the Jaynetts. Instead, he wanted to have
Johnnie Richardson backed by members of the The Hearts
--- Hazel Crutchfield, Louise Harris, Joyce Weiss, and at
various times, Betty Harris and Baby Washington ---

There were at least five female vocalists on the date the
song was recorded-- Johnnie Louise Richardson, Ethel
Davis, Mary Sue Wells, Yvonne Bushnell, and Ada Ray. In
fact, there was some confusion as to who exactly were the
Jaynetts; the three women in the usual Jaynetts publicity
photo, for instance, may not even be the Jaynetts that
recorded the song. 

Both drummer Buddy Miles and piano/keyboardist Artie
Butler are supposed to have played on the session (which
is rumored to have cost more than $60,000, an
astronomical sum in 1963). 


I have more info if anyone needs it.


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Message: 6
   Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 13:13:53 -0500
   From: "Paul Payton" 
Subject: Over The Mountain, Across The Records

Re: Jaynetts - nice AMG review, Patrick. I think that
because the record is so timeless and its production
values so universal, there's a tendency to universalise
the mysticism of the song. But there are some pretty scary
nursery rhymes out there, too, so who knows? BTW, lest we
forget, Johnnie Richardson was earlier half of Johnnie &
Joe, creators (on J&S) of the monumental doo-wop ballad,
"Over The Mountain, Across The Sea." Another univeral
classic in my opinion.

Brian: you mean "Tommy" by Reparata & the Delrons (on
World Artists) doesn't grab you? Quintessential girl-group
gold! (Just gotta pitch for my fave - although some of the
later stuff, like "Captain of your Ship," is also
remarkable.) The "family" story is fascinating. I'll make
sure the cassette case isn't burning if I rent the film.

Keith Beach: "noughties" - I love it. Perfect pun for
these strange times, too.

Mick Patrick, re: "Jimmie Cross - Hey Little Girl," I saw
somewhere that the artist is really Harry Nilsson, who
changed his name to this  one for the incredibly
wonderfully sick "I Want My Baby Back." Is that true, or
are they separate people?

Happy weekend,
Country Paul

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Message: 7
   Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 00:45:13 -0000
   From: "tsmbjjcd" 
Subject: Kim Sisters 1970's

Does anyone know anything about the Kim Sisters, a 1970's
Korean vocal group? Or their agent (talent scout), Tom
Ball? Someone named Bob Alcivar posted something in 1999
saying that he once wrote for and traveled with the Kim

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Message: 8
   Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 09:40:50 +0900
   From: LePageWeb 
Subject: Re: Lost In Wonderland

Martin wrote about "Wonderland" by Shelby Flint:

> Written by the Addrisi Brothers and arranged by Perry
> Botkin Jr. (who arr. most of the labels 'purple'
> output) it is the most gorgeous 2:18 of soft (meaning
> not harsh!!) Spector styled Pop.

Dear Martin,

Thank you so much for playing this most gorgeous 2:18 on
musica. I had never had the pleasure of hearing it
before. What bliss! The arrangement on this is
fantastic - little wonder what with the arranger
credit. This is really a very special record. Do any
of her others compare?

Thanks again,


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Message: 9
   Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 17:18:24 -0600
   From: "Justin McDevitt" 
Subject: Re: Laurie 45's

  ----- Original Message from: Jeffrey Glenn 

> I'm out of town right now, but if anyone is interested
> I could compile a list of these [Laurie] singles that
> I've burned in the Lost Jukebox series and post it. 
> Some standouts - "Heard You Went Away" by Proctor
> Amusement Company from 1967 (a national release of a
> regional Florida record, and amazing soft pop!), A
> Thousand Devils (Chasin' Me) by The Fifth Order (1967,
> great uptempo pop!), "Ten Story Building" by The
> Cardboard Zeppelin (another great soft pop gem - from
> 1968, predating Led Zeppelin!:-))...

Jeffrey, Your proposal sounds great! Put the list


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Message: 10
   Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:47:02 -0000
   From: "Martin Roberts" 
Subject: Amen Justin but!

Not too sure about the perfect acoustics or the cosmic
sound. I sometimes feel the most exciting moment is when
you've bought your 45, credits look good you've never
heard it before, the deck gets up to speed, you lower
the, click, pop,pop...... Oh Bliss!


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Message: 11
   Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:50:03 EST
   From: James Botticelli 
Subject: this just in from Tipsydave.

In a message dated 1/26/02 6:59:05 PM, Tipsydave writes:

the Jaynettes were basicly a  studio group, with
completely different lineups from one record to another,

sorta like those Kasenetz-Katz bubblegum groups, and the
impressario who owned the name/concept/rights is long
gone, nobody should really mind THAT much if i borrowed a
couple bars of the instrumental b-side... have you ever
heard (one-time Jaynette) Ada "Cry Baby" Ray's "I No
Longer Believe In Miracles"? pretty wonderful...she
completely breaks down in the middle of the song...

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Message: 12
   Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 09:00:23 +0000 (GMT)
   From: Mick Patrick 
Subject: re: ETTA JAMES

> -----Original Message from Michael Rashkow:
> I note that Etta James just turned 64--will I still need
> her, yes; will I still feed her, I think she's had enough
> to eat. But she's been cutting great stuff since she was 17 years
> old, that's in six decades by my count.  Quite a talent.


Agreed, Mike, Etta James is one magnificent artist. And,
indeed, quite fat. It is impossible to do her justice here.
The former Jamesetta Hawkins deserves an entire book to
herself. Well, in 1995, the year in which she won a Grammy
for her "Mystery Lady" LP and a full four decades after
she first rocked the R'n'B charts with "Roll With Me,
Henry", Etta James published that very book. It is an
autobiography that every fan of R'n'B and soul music
really should read. Full of compelling recollections of
how she came to records famous hits like "All I Could Do
Was Cry", "At Last", "Something's Got A Hold On Me",
"Pushover", "Tell Mama" and "I'd Rather Go Blind" and
lurid details of her tempestuous life, RAGE TO SURVIVE
will turn you off drugs and on to the music of Etta James
for good. It is packed with evocative tales of her life on
the road with living legends like Little Richard, Ray
Charles and the Rolling Stones and obscure Runyonesque
characters such as Titty Tassel Tone the fire-eating shake
dancer, Lady Java the hermaphrodite Josephine
Baker-impersonator and Etta's beloved Leo with whom she
cohabited. The singer's circle of gender-dysphoric pals
shared with her all the tricks of their trade, while the
ever-maternal Etta taught Leo how to overcome his limited
intellect and do his own laundry. Etta was forced to have
him evicted from her apartment after he killed and ate her
beautiful canaries for Christmas dinner. Leo was Etta's
pet monkey.

There are very many good Etta James CDs on the market. A
beginner could do worse than THE BEST OF ETTA JAMES (UK
Spectrum 544 367 2) - eighteen tracks for under six quid.
(Sorry, John, this is not the one which contains the
stereo version of "Seven Day Fool").


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Message: 13
   Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:07:56 EST
   From: James Botticelli 
Subject: Jaynetthestized

Yet more info on the Jaynettes from their site...One
member, Lezli Valentine, recorded briefly for All Platinum
Records in the late 6T's...The label was owned by Sylvia
Robinson (Mickey & Sylvia, owner of Sugar Hill Records and
the Chess catalog). Lezli covered The Moments' "Not On The
Outside" and "I Won't Do Anything". I have one other
single by Lezli on All Platinum, the title of which
escapes me at the moment..
Al Z. Heimer

Sally Go Round the Roses

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Message: 14
   Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 05:11:10 -0000
   From: Billy G. Spradlin 
Subject: Re: that thing you do!

> Final, final note-To Billy G. Spradlin--Excellent
> power pop, girls, and 60's stations, I tried to send
> you a note, but the mail daemon keeps saying they're
> undeliverable for some reason, I tried the hotmail and
> earthlink addresses. Keep up the good work.

Yahoo halfway hides e-mail address to prevent e-mail
spammers from using "bots", programs that grab e-mail
addresses from web pages.

As for my stations, I may have to change the Jangle Radio
FM (for cable modems/ISDN) stream to 56K sometime this
month to get more listeners. According to Live365, my 24
(33.3) streams gets almost twice as many listeners in
a week. I havent updated the playlists since December
because I have been super-busy with family/business


[ ADMIN NOTE: Billy's reference to Yahoo's "hiding"
email addresses presents a good opportunity to clarify
anti-spamming measures. 

Yahoo! Groups displays truncated email addresses (e.g.,
"joe@x...") on the Message Archives at the Spectropop
Group members page. However, whenever a message is sent
to the Spectropop Group, the author's email address will
be visible to those members of the group set to receive
messages via email. 

Spectropop members' names and email addresses are
available to the owner and moderators of the group. To
protect the privacy of group members, this information
is not available to outside parties. Further, members'
email addresses are always purged from the digest
archive web sites. If there are any questions or
comments about this or any other group function or
policy, please write to spectropop owner
rather than writing to the group ].

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Message: 15
   Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 00:47:41 EST
   From: Michael Rashkow 

Mick The Man writes:

> I have in front of me a rather excellent 7 inch single
> written and produced by Ellie Greenwich and Mike Rashkow.
> The record in question is WHAT GOOD IS I LOVE YOU by
> DUSTY SPRINGFIELD. Perhaps Mike will do us all the honour
> of telling us as much as he can about the making of this
> great track.

First, let me thank you for the word "excellent" and your

Well, was a dark and stormy night, and we were
all sitting around the campfire...I thought I had already
bored everyone to tears with this story. Possibly not.  

It seems to me that each time I go back and start to tell
these old war stories, they sound so bizarre that I
question whether or not it all really happened that way.
This one is pretty weird--it guess there's a crazy record
story for every light on Broadway, but what the hell,
here goes.

What Good Is I Love You was originally written by us for
Ellie and produced by us with Ellie singing and the
intention of releasing it as a single.  Ellie didn't have
a record deal at the time.

We brought it to Jerry Wexler, we wanted to get her on
Atlantic.  He said great, I love Ellie, I love the song,
love the record (Wexler was a bit given to hyperbole I
think)--but, he says I don't think it's the right song
for Ellie, I want it for Dusty Springfield.  

Well, we said, why not?  Ellie was a Dusty fan anyway and
it seemed like it would be an easier route to the
Billboard charts. Wexler was someone that you didn't say
no to without considering the downside, and besides, we
had some other things cooking with, or in the can for

So Wexler sends Dusty an acetate of the master and she
says O.K., she agrees--wants to do it, or so Wexler tells
us. My guess is he kind of pushed her into it.  I don't
know why I think that, I just do.

Then Jerry says can we give him (sell him) the track,
Dusty likes it a lot, but she doesn't want to come over
to voice it; so he will send it to her and she will voice
it in England then send it back for us to mix.

Well, we were a little disappointed that we wouldn't get
her into the studio ourselves--who wouldn't want to work
with Dusty; and I guess we were a little bit concerned
about shipping our master overseas.  But who could say no
in a case like this--Wexler/Springfield.  Not us.  But I
did make a dupe of the unmixed master and sent that, not
the original.  Can't remember whether it was 8 Trk or 16
Trk.  I think it was 16. Prescient--but I get ahead of
the story.

So a few weeks went by and Wexler calls and we go over
and pick up the master and the rough mix that Dusty had

Well, imagine our surprise.  Not only did she replace
Ellie's vocal--that's what we expected--she also removed
the drum track and put on some other joker over there.  

How interesting!  I mean, it wasn't like our drummer was
Chaim Chamyonkle--I'm pretty certain it was The Man
himself, Bernard " Pretty" Purdie, and as far as we were
concerned, we liked what we had and thought what she gave
us was a little, shall we say, lacking in excitement. 
Purdie could dominate and overplay sometimes --maybe
Dusty thought he was too much or overshadowed the vocal.
I don' t know what she thought--never talked to her or
saw her face--before, during or after.

Now what?  We are in a quandary.  Not only what are we
going to do about it, but how are we going to do it?  Are
we going to discuss it first or just take back control of
the record.

Well, it's a long time ago and I don't remember the
discussions or considerations, but I do know that we took
off her drummer and put our original drum track right
back on the tape -- either with or without sync tone
(which would have been the best way if there was an open
track on each).  If you listen closely to the
record--particularly near the end, there's a slight out
of time feeling--kind of sloppy.

My guess is that we just used both tapes, got the reels
weighted as close as possible, put a VFO on one machine
to fine tune them to the same speed--and may have even
done it with a couple of "punch-ins" at open spots to
keep them sync'd together and then just ran our drum
track back in.

Another studio nightmare and some degradation to the

We mixed the thing, gave the Stereo and Mono masters to
Wexler and never mentioned what took place.  My guess is
he never knew the difference between them--or maybe he
didn't give a damn.  

As far as Dusty, she never asked us whether she could do
it in the first place, so I never felt obligated to ask
her either.  I hate to speak unkindly of the dead, but
frankly I thought it was one of the most presumptuous
things anybody ever did.

Of course, Teddy Vann once cut a song we wrote, with his
group The Sandpebbles, then took the track, wrote his own
song over it and released it that way.  Title "Forget It".
That's not very nice either, but hey its' a five o'clock
world when the whistle blows right?  The original song--I
forgot it.  Maybe if I heard the record again now the
thing would come back to me.

So anyway, the Springfield record came out, got decent
reviews (as if that meant anything then or now) and dove
straight to the bottom of the sea.

So that's the story of how I produced a Dusty Springfield
record without ever meeting her. May she rest in peace.

By the bye, the thing that Dusty does in the fade--wooo
oooh oooh, etc. was note for note from Ellie's vocal.

Ellie recorded the tune again on Let It Be Written Let It
be Sung.

In closing, I'd like anyone who will pay royalties to
record it again. Actually, I'd like 20 or 30 people to
record it.  And in spite of some recent critical comments
on this site, I think starting with Mariah Carey would be
a wonderful idea.

...and as the campfire coals glow softly in the darkness
and forty seven music enthusiasts snore gently in their
slumber, another long, pointless and boring reminiscence
by an old has-been comes creakingly to a halt.

Hey, don't blame me, huh. Send your nasty letters to Mick.
He's the one who invited me over.


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