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Spectropop - Digest Number 362

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There are 20 messages in this issue of Spectropop.

Topics in this Digest Number 362:

      1. Dee Irwin
           From: Carol Kaye 
      2. Meditations upon a Wall
           From: "Paul Payton" 
      3. The Jaynetts and the Hearts
           From: "Ian Slater" 
      4. Jaynetts, et al.
           From: John Clemente 
      5. Re: Sally Go 'Round The Roses
           From: Bryan 
           From: Mick Patrick 
      7. The Crystals In London
           From: John Clemente 
      8. RE: When songwriting starts to suck
           From: Robert Bates 
      9. Re: Montage/Laurie Records
           From: "Robert Conway" 
     10. Re: Various
           From: Michael Rashkow 
     11. Re: Hank Shifter
           From: "Don Charles" 
     12. Re: Grace of My Heart / That Thing You Do
           From: "Robert Conway" 
     13. Re: Sally Go 'Round The Roses
           From: Andrew Hickey 
     14. Re: New euro-visions release
           From: "Jean Emmanuel DUBOIS" 
     15. More Mojo Men
           From: "Jeff Lemlich" 
     16. Re: Best of George Harrison
           From: "Robert Conway" 
     17. Re:Bow Down & Worship?
           From: "Martin Roberts" 
     18. Re: Bow Down and Worship?
           From: LePageWeb 
     19. Must-Hear Jeff Barry Production Rarities!
           From: "Don Charles" 
     20. Al Kooper covers
           From: "Jeff Lemlich" 


Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:20:49 -0800
   From: Carol Kaye 
Subject: Dee Irwin

Yes, I knew and even recorded for Dee Irwin (is on my
list on my website also).  Dee Irwin, the only name I
knew him by, was sort of a happy-go-lucky type of person,
good good singer....very soulful funky stuff we cut
(about 3-4 recording dates, probably 12 songs).  I was
surprised that he didn't keep going.  There's one thing
we cut that was a pretty big hit for him, I have the bass
line in my first book "How To Play The Electric Bass"
(pub. by my own pub. co. Gwyn in 1969).

Then pretty soon he worked a lot for Local 47 Musicians'
Union up on the 2nd floor.  Yes, he was a pretty rotund,
very sharp guy, totally happy to be around, and loved to

Carol Kaye

PS.  Seems to me I saw in my Log where I recorded for him
early on too, before the mid-60s when we cut that hit for
him....have him somewhere around 1961-62 in my log, so
played guitar on that.  I didn't play elec bass until
someone didn't show up on a Capitol Records date late '63.

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:11:58 -0500
   From: "Paul Payton" 
Subject: Meditations upon a Wall

Re: Big Dee Irwin, let us not forget his exquisite lead
vocals with the Pastels (Argo) in the '50's on "Been So
Long" and "So Far Away," two of most gorgeous doo-wop
records ever made. He's the only Pastel I know about;
anyone have any background on the rest of the group or
where they went afterwards (if anywhere)?

Re: Al Kooper - he spells it with a K (not a C). Let's
say what we will about him, but spel it rite! :-)

I just heard Montage for the first time yesterday on
WFMU - a long narrative song (missed the title) using a
12-tone scale! And no, it wasn't "T-square and triangle
music" (as my father called it) like Stockhausen; it was
an absolutely gorgeous and inventive piece which
eloquently spoke in its own musical language. (And a
side note - it's even on Laurie Records, right? What a
departure for them!) Can I assume this is available on
CD? From who/where, please?

Michael Marino writes:
> I believe "All Things Must Pass" is one of PS's
> production triumphs from the 70's...excellent work
> from Phil because he allowed George, his guitar and
> Clapton's guitar to shine rather than be buried in
> the mix.  This was a case of what I call the Wall of
> Compromise.,

Michael, allow me to philosophise: why does it have to be
a compromise? I've always envisioned "the Wall" as "its
own instrument." In whatever texture it adopts on a
particular recording, it exists as if one was "playing an
orchestra" on a keyboard. Thus, to me, the Wall can stand
alone, or it can "surround" or "protect" what's going on
inside or next to it. Examples: On the Spectors Three, "I
Really Do," the embryonic wall (the lush velvet mix of
voices and non-shrill electric guitars in the track)
surrounds and supports the delicate lead vocal grouping
and "dom-dooby-doms." (In my mind I can hear some
Fleetwoods tracks produced in the same way.) In ATMP -
and in Ronettes records - the Wall stands strongly
behind the soloists out front. When I was playing in
my band, I used to get shellacked by some of the
other members because I viewed what we were playing
less as a way to hear everyone's individual flash and
more as a group effort of individuals in service to
the creation of the total sound. To me, that's the
philosophy of the Wall.

I've bloviated long enough....and Michael, your George
Harrison track list for the retrospective is excellent. I
would only add "Try Some, Buy Some." (Was "Dark Hoarse"
[sic] an intentional pun or a typo?)

Country Paul

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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:31:00 -0000
   From: "Ian Slater" 
Subject: The Jaynetts and the Hearts

Simon White wrote:

> Thanks for theJaynettes stuff - I 'm a bit confused
> with the Jaynettes/Hearts connection though. Are we
> saying that the Jaynettes were the Hearts? Time for a
> Jaynettes cd  anthology I think?

The identities of the Jaynetts and the Hearts is a
complicated matter. To make things worse, the Clickettes
are involved too! Not to mention the Patty Cakes.... the

It is all covered in great detail in John Clemente's
wonderful book "Girl Groups " from Krause Publications.
John devotes a chapter to each of the 3 groups with the
line ups over the years, discographies, and a total of
about 18 pages and 13 photos. Fascinating stuff.

Very briefly, there really were groups of these names
(with changing personnel over the years) but the
formidable Zell Sanders, owner of J&S records, decided
who to use on each record and the name on the label.

Buy the book!

Do you hear me, everybody - buy the book!!

[ Reviews, photos, artist line-up and how to order:

Ian Slater

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Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:03:37 -0500
   From: John Clemente 
Subject: Jaynetts, et al.

Hello Again,

Yes, Simon, a rotating group of young ladies, which
always included Lezli Valentine and Louise Murray was
indeed all these groups on Tuff Records:

Jaynetts/Hearts/Poppies/Clickettes/Patty Cakes

When the group released singles on J&S was when the
lineup was totally different.



--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:37:53 -0800
   From: Bryan 
Subject: Re: Sally Go 'Round The Roses

> Thanks for theJaynettes stuff - I 'm a bit confused with
> the Jaynettes/Hearts connection though. Are we saying
> that the Jaynettes were the Hearts? Time for a Jaynettes
> cd  anthology I think?

As I understand it, Tuff Record's Chicago-based
producer-label executive Abner Spector had expressed
interest that he was looking for material and a new girl
group to produce. By this point, he had already worked
with the Corsairs and the Tune Weavers

Spector liked "Sally Go 'Round The Roses," but wasn't
sure about the Jaynetts. Instead, he wanted to have
Johnnie Richardson backed by members of the The Hearts
--- Hazel Crutchfield, Louise Harris, Joyce Weiss, and at
various times, Betty Harris and Baby Washington ---

There were at least five female vocalists on the date the
song was recorded-- Johnnie Louise Richardson, Ethel
Davis, Mary Sue Wells, Yvonne Bushnell, and Ada Ray. In
fact, there was some confusion as to who exactly were the
Jaynetts; the three women in the usual Jaynetts publicity
photo, for instance, may not even be the Jaynetts that
recorded the song. 

Both drummer Buddy Miles and piano/keyboardist Artie
Butler are supposed to have played on the session (which
is rumored to have cost more than $60,000, an
astronomical sum in 1963). 


I have more info if anyone needs it.


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:20:26 +0000 (GMT)
   From: Mick Patrick 

> -----Original Message from Simon

> Thanks for theJaynettes stuff - I 'm a bit confused with
> the Jaynettes/Hearts connection though. Are we saying
> that the Jaynettes were the Hearts? Time for a Jaynettes
> cd  anthology I think?


Like I said, Simon, your really do need to read John
ROCKED THE WORLD for the lowdown on not only THE JAYNETTS
but also THE HEARTS. In fact, the chapter on the latter
group is a masterclass in research. Like the girls say,
you can either take my advice or go eat worms.


[ Reviews, photos, artist line-up and how to order:

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 7
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:55:45 -0500
   From: John Clemente 
Subject: The Crystals In London


This message is in response to Simon White's question
about the 80s Crystals.  Dee Dee was definitely there,
along with Niecy Dizell (stage name) another protege of
Zell Sanders from the early 70s, plus one girl whose name
escapes me, but I remember she was tall.  Shortly after
that, Gretchen Gale Prendatt was with Dee Dee, along with
Louise Bethune, who was in The Crystals in the mid 70s
and was showing up again intermittently.  Nowadays, I
think Dee Dee has her daughter in the group and is
singing all the leads.


John Clemente

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Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:12:51 -0700
   From: Robert Bates 
Subject: RE: When songwriting starts to suck

It has always been my theory that the reason the Brill
Building songwriters were so good is that they wrote
EVERY DAY. It was the day-in, day-out practicing of
their craft that made them so sharp. I read an interview
with Gerry Goffin where he said that if he and Carole
weren't finished with a song in the old days, they
wouldn't stop until they got it exactly right. These
days, instead, they'll break and go to dinner. They
don't have the old drive or dedication.

The same goes for Brian Wilson, or the Beatles. In the
sixties, these guys did several albums a year, filled
with gems.  Now they do one album every five years, and
while in theory their work should be better, because
they have more time to focus on it, it just isn't. 

So to the other question, perhaps Irving Berlin et al.
probably had a stronger work ethic than some of the 60s
rock writers. Here's my favorite quote by him:

"You write in the morning, you write at night. You write
in a taxi, in the bathtub, or in an elevator. And after
the song is all finished it may turn out to be very bad,
but you sharpen your pencil and try again. A
professional songwriter has his mind on his job all the
time." ---Irving Berlin. 

Let's just say you won't find Goffin/King etc. saying that 
kind of thing these days.

Rob B.

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Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:21:45 -0600
   From: "Robert Conway" 
Subject: Re: Montage/Laurie Records

>From: "Paul Payton" 

> I just heard Montage for the first time yesterday on
> was an absolutely gorgeous and inventive
> piece which eloquently spoke in its own musical
> language. (And a side note - it's even on Laurie
> Records, right? What a departure for them!) Can I
> assume this is available on CD? From who/where,
> please?

Paul:  Montage is available now on CD with bonus tracks on
the mostly always awesome Sundazed label.  Yes the LP was
originally released on the Laurie label in 1968.  Don't
forget that Dion's "Abraham, Martin and John" also was
released on Laurie (in 1968) so I don't think Montage was
a conscious departure from the Chiffons, Jarmels, etc. but
more of a artist shift by Laurie to stay contemporary and
relevant.  Anyway, by the late sixties the Chiffons and
Jarmels, etc. were one step away from the oldies-show
circuit and certainly not considered air-worthy by the
majority of station programmers at that time.

Montage:  Obvious Michael Brown (you know him from the
Left Banke) influence although he was not in the band. 
Brown and Bert Sommer ("We're All Playing in the Same Band")
wrote most of the material.  One last note for
Spectropopers:  The first song on the CD, "I Shall Call
Her Mary," is about Mary Weiss of the Shangri-Las.   -Bob

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:56:27 EST
   From: Michael Rashkow 
Subject: Re: Various

In a message dated 1/23/2002, keith beach writes:

> Because of the medium songwriters wrote for, stage
> musicals or throwaway pop singles, they shouldn't be
> judged as superior/inferior.

It appears that I'm being judged as judgmental-- not.
Although Dr. Morris Laitman, my former therapist once
said,  "listen, people are making judgments all the
time--they're just not telling you about them".  Anyway,
I was just pointing to a few writers who had long bright
careers and asking whether there was a difference.  And
I forgot to mention Cole Porter.

By the way Keith, appreciate your asking,  I just use
Rashkovsky for fun--I'm a big fat kow.

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 11
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:09:01 +0000
   From: "Don Charles" 
Subject: Re: Hank Shifter

>From: "Paul Payton" 

> Re: Jeff Barry productions - anyone else like Hank
> Shifter's "Saturday Noontime" on Steed? I find it intense
> and unusual. I know Shifter had at least one other Steed
> 45. Anyone know who he is/was? Other info?

According to Jeff, Hank Shifter was a
singer/songwriter/guitarist he signed to his Steed label
early on.  He cut about two singles for Steed, both of
which are terribly rare - I've never heard either, but
Jeff says the best release he ever cut with Hank was
called "Mary On The Beach."  That's probably the other
45 you're referring to.

> Don Charles: thanks for the Distant Cousins discography.

You're giving me credit for something I didn't do!  I
never heard of Distant Cousins before.

Don Charles

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Message: 12
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:48:14 -0600
   From: "Robert Conway" 
Subject: Re: Grace of My Heart / That Thing You Do

Another "recent vintage" flick that I find less
superficial and equally entertaining as "Grace..." is
Tom Hanks' "That Thing You Do."  I love that state fair
caravan of stars.  Also, the ST is excellent as a
recreated time piece from about 1964.  The first track
of the CD is dead-on Mitch Miller.

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 13
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 05:54:02 -0800 (PST)
   From: Andrew Hickey 
Subject: Re: Sally Go 'Round The Roses

--- John Clemente wrote:

> Hello All,
> Long ago, I quit trying to figure out exactly what the
> song was about.  It falls into the "American Pie"
> category. I speculate that it's a play on an old
> nursery rhyme or a folk tune.  

Yeah, there is an old folk song by that name. Don't
know if it's the same one as I haven't heard the
version you're talking about. IIRC Pentangle among
others recorded the traditional song (on Basket Of
Light I think).

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 14
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:57:21 +0200 (MET)
   From: "Jean Emmanuel DUBOIS" 
Subject: Re: New euro-visions release

Dear spectro-friend erratum: is the address of my site not the
previous one that is not connected by any means to my
label- sorry- site available for mid February :-)

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 15
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 01:05:07 -0500
   From: "Jeff Lemlich" 
Subject: More Mojo Men

There were actually three distinct periods in the life of
the Mojo Men. Before they moved to the West Coast, they
were based in South Florida, and known as the Valiants. 
Their first appearance on record was in 1961, backing
Steve Alaimo on his "Twist with Steve Alaimo" album
(Checker 2981). (Two of Alaimo's cousins were Mojo Men
members).  Jim Alaimo of the Mojo Men also recorded in
Miami using two pseudonyms:

as JIMMY SUMMERS & THE SLICKS - I Love You, You Love
Me/Long Lost Love (Space 001)

as JIMMY PARIS - Esmerelda/Lost Love (Dade 5001, issued
nationally on KC 5001)

Jimmy and the rest of the Valiants/Mojo Men re-recorded
"Lost Love" after their move to the West Coast, and that
track appears on the "Why's Ain't Supposed To Be" reissue.

The Mojo Men also did a pretty good cover of cousin Steve
Alaimo's 1950s tune "She's My Baby".

Jeff Lemlich

> > Is it possible that there were two groups under the name
> > of Mojo Men? The "Should I cry - group" sounds
> > completely different from the "Freak-Beat Mojo Men" who
> > recorded "She's my baby".
> There was only one group known as the Mojo Men but their
> career can be broken down into two distinct periods pre
> and post Jan Ashton. Jan was a female drummer who sang
> the lead on "Sit Down I think I love You". She had
> previously done some recordings with the Vejtables who
> had a local hit in San Francisco with "I Still Love You".
> Her real name I think was Jan Errico.

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 16
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:42:41 -0600
   From: "Robert Conway" 
Subject: Re: Best of George Harrison

GH would enjoy your play on words for the disc one, track
19 selection.  Or was that truly a typo?

>From: Michael Marino 

> ...19. Dark Hoarse...
> Comments, Revisions, Critiques are welcome!

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 17
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:05:47 -0000
   From: "Martin Roberts" 
Subject: Re:Bow Down & Worship?

Think you've missed my point Keith about Phil Spector's
achievement (as does Michael Marino.....last I heard this
was a Ronnie Mack tune and this poor guy is also dead!!).

It doesn't matter when Phil produced The Righteous
Brothers, Ramones or George Harrison, or how musically
talented the artists were that Phil worked with. What is
amazing and a 'record' I can't see anyone breaking for at
least 18 years is the fact that the credit P. Spector (in
various guises) has been printed on Top Ten charting
records for six decades.

George's best LP was released after the Beatles break up,
all those great songs he'd been saving (couldn't use)
were released to critical and commercial acclaim. Was it
just the strength of these tunes or did his co-producer
also deserve credit? It is the PS credit that I celebrate,
not the sad death of George Harrison.

So what if Phil is not releasing 'new' music? I enjoyed
his work with Dion, Leonard Cohen & The Ramones but I'm
still more likely to play "Born To Be Together" than
"Iodine" My wife is turning into Dean Martin's biggest
fan (scary!!), his greatest record releases in the 60's
but he carried on recording (with a few exceptions)
lesser material into the 80's and now he's dead. If you
hear and enjoy "Amoure" being played as an advert for a
pizza takeaway that doesn't diminish the beauty(!) of the
song/singer. If hearing this song makes you go out and
buy the record, what does it matter he's not recording

Great music is great music (without a date stamp!) 

I think Mr Spector deserves credit for NOT releasing
material that might not live up to the standards he has


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 18
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:16:22 +0900
   From: LePageWeb 
Subject: Re: Bow Down and Worship?

When George Harrison passed on I wrote here that his
work "truly enriched my life," yet I have to agree with
Martin that Phil's achievement in getting top hit
records over the course of six decades is indeed a
phenomenal achievement. Just my opinion but I don't
believe Harrison's death diminishes this accomplishment.
The ghosts around when Unchained Melody topped the
charts for the second time certainly weren't those of
dead rock stars. 

I admit that one might view the re-release of My Sweet
Lord as exploiting Harrison's death, but EMI deserves a
little sympathy here - after all, they gotta figure out
some way to make back that 49 mil they paid to Mariah
to not sing for them anymore. In any event, Spector
certainly can't be accused of pulling an Elton John /
Candle in the Wind type manoeuver here.

--- In Spectropop, Keith Beach wrote:

>'s a slightly hollow claim for 'six decades of
> hits' if it includes reissues. It's not a measure of
> Phil's continuing talent to produce good music...just
> an happy accident of public taste.

Hmmm. OK - can we agree then that it is a measure of
Phil's talent to have produced good music that
continues to appeal to the public's taste over six
decades? After all, "Tomorrow's Sound - Today!" is one
heckuva claim to have made! Self-fulfilled prophecy?

Finally, I feel compelled to ask: Whether by accident or
design, isn't the reason ANY music is popular is BECAUSE
it appeals to public taste? To my way of thinking, it is
far more impressive that a record made 30 odd years ago
can hit #1 now than is two million unit sales of a banal
flavor-of-the-month Mariah Carey record.


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 19
   Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:27:33 +0000
   From: "Don Charles" 
Subject: Must-Hear Jeff Barry Production Rarities!

As a follow-up to my list of Jeff Barry's 25 Greatest
Productions, here's a (highly)subjective list of 25 rare
JB productions that I strongly recommend. All were
released as singles unless otherwise noted:

1.  Lovin' Lady - Ron Dante (LP cut, RON DANTE BRINGS YOU UP)
2.  You Touch Me - Bobby Bloom (flipside of #10)
3.  Let Me Bring You Up - Ron Dante
4.  Get On The Line - The Archies (killer LP cut, JINGLE JANGLE)
5.  I Been Moved - Andy Kim
6.  Careful Not To Break The Spell - Bobby Bloom
7.  Sweet Savior - Jeff Barry (second best of Jeff's solo
singles,and my all-time favorite JB composition)
8.  Love Is On Our Side - The Playhouse (featuring Joe DiBenedetto)
9.  You Ain't As Hip As All That, Baby - Jay and The Americans
10. We Need Each Other - Bobby Bloom
11. Rainbow Ride - Andy Kim
12. Run, Run, Run - The Illusion
13. We're All Goin' Home - Bobby Bloom
14. You Little Angel, You - Archies (killer soundtrack LP
15. Catchin' Up On Fun - Archies (soundtrack LP cut, THE ARCHIES)
16. A Summer Prayer For Peace - Archies (chart-topping South African single)
17. And I Don't Want Your Love - Keepers Of The Light (featuring Alzo)
18. This Thing I've Gotten Into - Bobby Bloom
19. Sign Of The V - Bobby Bloom (Jeff's favorite Bobby Bloom record)
20. You Make Me Wanna Dance - Archies (killer soundtrack
21. Seventeen Ain't Young - Archies (would've been great
for The Shangri-Las, too, soundtrack LP cut, THE ARCHIES)
22. Cheer Me Up - Globetrotters (reportedly Carl Gardner
of The Coasters on lead)
23. Try A Little Harder - Bobby Bloom
24. Stay On Top - Bobby Bloom (great "Mony Mony" style rocker)
25. Hang In There, Baby - Robin McNamara (featuring La La
Brooks and other "Hair" castmembers on backing vocals)

Honorable mention goes to "Bounce In Your Buggy," "It's
What You Do (With What You Got)," "You Can Bet They Do"
and "Bless My Soul", all four from the 1972 Sha-Na-Na LP
that Jeff produced, THE NIGHT IS STILL YOUNG.

Don Charles

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Message: 20
   Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 01:09:22 -0500
   From: "Jeff Lemlich" 
Subject: Al Kooper covers

Mick Patrick wrote:

> THIS DIAMOND RING - Sammy Ambrose (Musicor). Gary
> Lewis?!?! For Pete's sake do me a friggin' favour!!!
> This is by far the best version, and the original.
> (The b-side is even more amazing).

There were some excellent soul covers of Al Kooper tunes
-- "Jolie" by (Benny) Latimore, and "I Love You More Than
You'll Ever Know" by Donny Hathaway come to mind.  And
you are so right about Sammy Ambrose!  Pretty good job
for a Miami Beach limbo dancer!

My favorite Kooper tune is "Night Time Girl", a gem of a
tune recorded by both the MODERN FOLK QUINTET and THE

Jeff Lemlich

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

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