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Spectropop - Digest Number 338

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There are 20 messages in this issue of Spectropop.

Topics in this Digest Number 338:

      1. YOU STILL BELIEVE IN ME question
           From: "Jason MacIsaac" 
      2. Re: BIG TOWN BOY
           From: "Vlaovic B" 
      3. Re: Happiness Is Orange Colored Sky
           From: Matthew David 
      4. Re: Almer's Alice Designs
           From: Matthew David 
      5. Riff pioneers
           From: "Phil Chapman" 
      6. Magic Lamp label
           From: "David Gordon" 
      7. Re: Sandpipers/Lettermen pop gems
           From: "Michael Coleman" 
      8. Re: YOU STILL BELIEVE IN ME question
           From: Andrew Hickey 
      9. soft pop
           From: Alan Zweig 
     10. Bobby Callender
           From: Simon White 
     11. re Bobby Callender
           From: Mick Patrick 
     12. Re: soft pop
           From: Bryan 
     13. Lit by The Match
           From: James Botticelli 
     14. Re: JANE CANADA
           From: Mick Patrick 
     15. Re: You're So Good To Me
           From: "Javed Jafri" 
     16. Re: soft pop
           From: "Justin McDevitt" 
     17. Re: soft pop again
           From: "Justin McDevitt" 
     18. Claus & Connie Rockin dem bells
           From: Alan Miller 
     19. Re: JANE CANADA
           From: Simon White 
     20. Good Vibrations recording
           From: "Kingsley Abbott" 


Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:20:57 -0800
   From: "Jason MacIsaac" 
Subject: YOU STILL BELIEVE IN ME question

Hey there,

I was just wondering if anybody out there knows if the
opening tack piano (or hammered dulcimer?) line in YOU
STILL BELIEVE IN ME by the beach boys is a traditional
melody that Brian appropriated? You know.. 'I want to
cry-i-i-i- etc."I ask this because I was listening to
"Hell's ditch" by the Pogues the other day, and that
line is note for note in one of their songs called
"House of the Gods". For those of you who are not
familiar with the Pogues, they were an irish/english
celtic/pop/punk band in the eighties and nineties. It
seems more likely to me that they would have "borrowed"
a traditional line for their song then a Brian Wilson
passage. Any help at all would be fantastic.


Jason MacIsaac

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Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:04:40 -0500
   From: "Vlaovic B" 
Subject: Re: BIG TOWN BOY

>Not sure if you are talking about the "Oh What a Feeling"
>4 CD box set that came out in 1996 to commemorate the
>25th anniversary of the Juno Awards. Unfortunately BTB
>is nowhere to be found on that set. The collection is a
>rather pedestrian affair that concentrates on post 1968
>material . It does include some of the biggest Canadian
>hits but a lot of essential music is missing. No Ugly
>Ducklings, Staccatos, Teenage Head or Pagliaro but at
>least Martha and the Muffins made the set.

Thanks for correcting me.  It was a series of 3 CDs that
came out (individually) around 1991. Iremember looking at
the first volume and wondering whether I should buy it
for 'Big Town Boy' but opted against having 1 treasure
amongst as you say too many 'pedestrian' tracks.

Whilst I'm being corrected, let me give precise numbers
on Matthews chart claims in Toronto.  'Big Town Boy' went
to #4 in January of 64.  The follow up 'Private Property'
went to #18 in April of 64.   And that was the end of
Shirley's chart career At CHUM in Toronto.

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Message: 3
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 12:25:32 EST
   From: Matthew David 
Subject: Re: Happiness Is Orange Colored Sky

Andrew Hickey writes:

> Never heard of the *band* Orange Colored Sky, but any
> connection to the song of the same name, as recorded
> by Burt Ward (B-side of Boy Wonder I Love You). I only
> have those tracks as MP3s and have always wondered if
> Orange Colored Sky was, like its A-side, a Frank Zappa song.

Orange Colored Sky DID release a song called "Orange
Colored Sky" (written by Walter Slivinski), but I think
the Burt Ward recording is a different tune..... I seem
to recall someone named Delugg wrote that one.


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Message: 4
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 12:38:05 EST
   From: Matthew David 
Subject: Re: Almer's Alice Designs

Kingsley Abbott writes:

> If I recall rightly, the song "Alice Designs" did get
> a UK issue done by The Sugarbeats on Polydor.  They
> were a studio band name with a first issue of "I Just
> Stand There"/"Ballad Of Old Betsy" (Polydor BM 56069 -
> 1966) which was done by Tony Rivers and chums.  I
> don't belive the later issue (1967) of Tandyn Almer's
> song was done by Tony, but is still an obscure goodie...

"Alice Designs" (LSD Signs) was also a regional hit for a
band from Oregon called Mr. Lucky & The Gamblers in 1967.


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Message: 5
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 17:37:49 -0000
   From: "Phil Chapman" 
Subject: Riff pioneers

> ....nearly 50% if not MORE of
> all the cool riffs in the world of pop, funk, disco, house.,
> garage rock, etc have that little "you're so good to
> me"-type four or five note segment that seems to be the
> essence of the groove of the song....

These groovy little tunes are a bit too fast to sing
though. I hear them more as today's version of the James
Brown funky rhythm guitar style. I also like the trend of
sampling classic 60s R&B riffs and putting a half-time
dance beat underneath.

What I'm really interested in is the golden age of the
insidious pop riff, especially the ones that somehow
manage to state the intro and continue through every
section of the song. As I mentioned, the earliest example
I can think of is Ben E King's "Stand By Me", but I'd be
interested in any earlier reference (12-bar R&R bass
lines don't count).

I'm also curious about the development of the electric
12-string riff, which was the basis of The Byrds early
style, and a whole load of folk-rock that followed. The
earliest example I can find is "Then He Kissed Me" (&
"Rudolph.....") - I wonder who's idea it was to voice it
on electric 12-string, Phil's or Jack's? And who played
it? Jack Nitzsche took the idea further on Jackie
DeShannon's "When You Walk In The Room" (np), and this,
to my mind, was the innovation that spawned an era. And
do we know who played that legendary figure?


> Motorin' - Martha and the Vandellas - What a bassline!

I had my first instant teenage crush on our attractive
new student music teacher, who proclaimed a preference
for this over "Nowhere To Run"!

> One of the coolest ever is Someday We'll Be Together
> by the Supremes. This one features an incessant 1/8
> note guitar riff that plays on the "and-3-and-4-and"
> of every single measure.

Motown were the undisputed masters of this kind of rhythm.
Check out the earlier also Johnny Bristol
co-write/production of The Velvelettes "These Things Will
Keep Me Loving You" (np loud!), a record I never tire of,
which features that same rhythm idea on the intro, but
relentlessly continuing in the background tracking the
bass line in double tempo. Not to mention fiendishly
tricky muted brass doubling the backing vocal figure
(I'll leave it to Ian to describe the vocals). One of
their tightest rhythm tracks too - that kick & bass combo
could knock out walls. Yet another 'no ordinary girlgroup

And while I'm on a roll - listen to Marvin Gaye's "Baby
Don't You Do It", another Motown classic: a record
entirely over one note (Bflat) - metronomic 16s
throughout. Pioneering stuff!


> Connie and Claus also collaborated on other singles
> ("Your Other Love" comes to mind)

I can't say enough about "Your Other Love" - a
masterpiece tucked away on a 'b' side (in the UK). Genius
right from the opening galloping James Bond style guitar
figure, which continues throughout some moody chromatic
changes and surprise syncopation. Worth buying the CD set
for this track alone. Did Ogerman-Raleigh write any more
like this?


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Message: 6
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:34:38 +0000 (GMT)
   From: "David Gordon" 
Subject: Magic Lamp label

Can't add a lot to this topic other than that I've
read that the label was owned by Johnny Burnette.

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Message: 7
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:22:20 -0700
   From: "Michael Coleman" 
Subject: Re: Sandpipers/Lettermen pop gems

Paul wrote:

> Any other rare soft pop that you could tell me about?


If you can find it, there was a group called The Sound Of
Feeling. a trio who had arrangements kind of like free
design, but with MUCH stranger vocals, kind of like free
form jazz improvistions.  i found it in a thrift store,
they were on the Limelight/Mercury label (their cover of
donovans hurdy gurdy man stands as my fav to date)  also,
youve probably heard of margo guryan...what a great era.


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Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:57:51 -0800 (PST)
   From: Andrew Hickey 
Subject: Re: YOU STILL BELIEVE IN ME question

> It seems more likely to me that they would have
> "borrowed" a traditional line for their song then a 
> Brian Wilson passage. Any help at all would be 
> fantastic.

I doubt it was part of a traditional melody as the
intervals are all wrong - it certainly doesn't sound
like Irish music to me - and I'd never heard anything
to suggest that.

I don't know the song in question, but is it one of
the ones when they were working with Elvis Costello?
He's a big BW fan and may well have suggested it.
Also IIRC Kirsty MacColl did a cover of YSBIM, and she
worked with the Pogues on a couple of occasions, so
they may have taken the idea from her version.

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Message: 9
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:55:45 -0500
   From: Alan Zweig 
Subject: soft pop

Paul wrote:

> I'm also a big fan of The Arbors,Free Design,Hugo
> Montenegro,Collage,Roger Nichols,The Match [anybody
> heard their 69RCA LP-they do a version of 'Thru Spray
> Colored Glasses' by Dino,Desi & Billy which is very
> dreamy]I'm looking for info on a group called The
> Pretty People who 'Fuzz,Acid & Flowers' say sound like
> Free Design.Any other rare soft pop that you could
> tell me about?

I agree about the Match.  One of the few records I have
two copies of, just waiting to meet someone who is right
to receive it. Does anyone know if they made more records
besides the one with Spray Colored Glasses on it?

As far as other examples of "rare" soft pop?  Outside of
the usual suspects like The Association, Cowsills, Fifth
Dimension and Harpers Bizarre, it all seems pretty rare to
me.  At least on vinyl.

I really like Queen Anne's Lace. One of my few records
that's soft pop thru and thru. Maybe I'd add The
Happenings to that list.

Most of my best examples, I think, appear on records by
bands who were a little rockin, a little psychedelic, a
little bubblegummy etc. Like The American Breed
f'rinstance. In that category, veering on psychedelia, I
can recommend Elephant Candy. Veering on folk rock,
there's the duo called "Bobby and I". I sort of expect
this list to have an expert on anything I might name but
I'd be surprised to hear a comment on Bobby and I. And
even more surprised to hear one on Doug Randle, an
accidental soft pop gem from a middle aged composer in
Canada who I've otherwise never heard of.


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Message: 10
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:42:28 +0000
   From: Simon White 
Subject: Bobby Callender

Can anyone out there in Spectropopland tell me
anything about Bobby Callender ?

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Message: 11
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:17:46 +0000 (GMT)
   From: Mick Patrick 
Subject: re Bobby Callender


> -----Original Message from Simon White:
> Can anyone out there in Spectropopland tell me
> anything about Bobby Callender ?

Bobby had a small hit with "Little Star" (Roulette 4471)
in 1963. His subsequent releases included two 45s for
Coral in 1967 and one for MGM the following year. Big
Beat (ie Ace) released a CD by him a few years ago which
appears to be now deleted. Chances are that it contained
a good sleevenote. However, you can read more about Bobby
in the book Fuzz, Acid & Flowers. Browse it in Helter
Skelter bookshop in Denmark Street.

Now, about that Connie Francis 45.........


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Message: 12
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:51:10 -0800
   From: Bryan 
Subject: Re: soft pop

Here's a list I saved once. Thought it might come in
handy. I think David Bash came up with this:


Proper Albums:

And Along Comes The Association-The Association (Warner Brothers, Japan)
Renaissance-The Association (Warner Brothers, Japan)
Insight Out-The Association (Warner Brothers, Japan)
Birthday-The Associaton (Warner Brothers, Japan)
This Is Us-Harmony Grass (EM Records, Japan)
Around Grapefruit-Grapefruit (Repertoire Records, Germany)
The Yellow Balloon-The Yellow Balloon (Sundazed, US)
Save For A Rainy Day-Jan & Dean (Sundazed, US)
The Cowsills-The Cowsills (Razor & Tie, US)
You're A Very Lovely Woman/Live-The Merry Go Round (A&M, Japan)
Give Me, Take You-Duncan Browne (Sony Special Products, US)
Would You Believe-Billy Nicholls (Sequel, UK)
Present Tense-Sagittarius (Sundazed, US)
Begin-The Millennium (Revola, UK)
Preparing For The Millennium-The Ballroom (Revola, UK)
Revelations/Attacking The Straw Man-New Colony Six (Listed as "Best Of 
New Colony Six", but is in fact their two proper albums on 
Would You Believe-The Hollies (EMI, UK)
For Certain Because-The Hollies (EMI, UK)
Evolution-The Hollies (EMI, UK)
Butterfly-The Hollies (EMI, UK)
The Parade-The Parade (A&M, Japan)
Walk Away Renee-The Left Banke (Mercury, Japan)
Odessey & Oracle-The Zombies (Big Beat, UK)
Now That Everything's Been Said-The City (Epic, US)
Ellie Greenwich Composes, Produces, and Sings (Raven, Australia)
Feelin' Groovy-Harper's Bizarre (Warner Brothers, Japan)
Anything Goes-Harper's Bizarre (Warner Brothers, Japan)
The Secret Life Of Harper's Bizarre-Harper's Bizarre (Warner Brothers,
Kites Are Fun-The Free Design (Teichiku, Japan)
You Could Be Born Again-The Free Design (Teichiku, Japan)
Stars/Time/Bubbles/Love-The Free Design (Teichiku, Japan)
One By One-The Free Design (Teichiku, Japan)
Heaven/Earth-The Free Design (Teichiku, Japan)
Sing For Very Important People-The Free Design (Teichiku, Japan)
Spanky And Our Gang-Spanky And Our Gang (Vivid Sound, Japan)
Like To Get To Know You-Spanky And Our Gang (Vivid Sound, Japan)
Without Rhyme Or Reason-Spanky And Our Gang (Vivid Sound, Japan)
4-Harper's Bizarre (Warner Brothers, Japan)
The Clique-The Clique (Varese Sarabande, US)
All Strung Out-Nino Tempo & April Stevens (Varese Sarabande, US)
Bee Gees 1st-The Bee Gees (Polygram, US)
Horizontal-The Bee Gees (Polygram, US)
Idea-The Bee Gees (Polygram, US)
Salies Fforth..Plus-The Rainbow Ffolly (See For Miles, UK)
Outward Bown...Plus-The Alan Bown (See For Miles, UK)
The Pleasure Fair-The Pleasure Fair (Universal, Japan)
On-The 8th Day (Universal, Japan)
It's Been A Long, Long Time-The Hep Stars (Keystone Music, Japan)
Neon-The Cyrkle (Sony, Japan)
The World In A Sea Shell-The Strawberry Alarm Clock (Universal, Japan)
Wake Up, It's Tomorrow-The Strawberry Alarm Clock (Universal, Japan)
The World Of Oz-The World Of Oz (Si-Wan, Korea)

Compilations, Single Artists:

There's Gonna Be A Storm-The Left Banke (Polygram, US)
Sittin On A Fence (The Immediate Anthology)-The Twice As Much (Sequel, UK)
Colonized!-The Best Of New Colony Six (Rhino, US)
It's About Time-The Kit Kats (Jamie, US)
The Complete Roger Nichols & The Small Circle Of Friends (A&M, Japan)
Eternity's Children-Eternity's Children (Revola, UK)
The Sunshine Company-The Sunshine Company (Revola, UK)
Let's Go To San Francisco-The Flowerpot Men (Repertoire, Germany)
The Best Of The Cowsills-The Cowsills (Rebound, US)
Choir Practice-The Choir (Sundazed, US)
Anthology-The Critters (Taragon, US)
The Very Best Of-The Arbors (Taragon, US)
You've Got To Be Loved-The Montanas (Sequel, UK)
Flight Recorder-Pinkerton's Assorted Colours/Flying Machine (Sequel, UK)
Major League-The Ivy League (Sequel, UK)
Up, Up, And Away, The Definitive Collection-The 5th Dimension (Arista, US)
Back To The Story-The Idle Race (EMI, UK)
The Enfields/Friends Of The Family (Get Hip, US)
The Sun, The Wind, And Other Things (Collectables, US)
The Best Of Paul & Barry Ryan (Repertoire, US)

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Message: 13
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:45:31 EST
   From: James Botticelli 
Subject: Lit by The Match

> Roger Nichols,The Match [anybody heard their 69RCA
> LP-they do a version of 'Thru Spray Colored Glasses'
> by Dino,Desi & Billy which is very dreamy]

As Alan Z can probably attest, The Match's 1969 LP
(liners by Henry Mancini) not only contains the
aforementioned DD & B song, but also a Roger Nichols gem
"Dont Take Your Time" ...HUGE in Japan

Jimmy Botticelli

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Message: 14
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:38:43 +0000 (GMT)
   From: Mick Patrick 
Subject: Re: JANE CANADA


> -----Original Message from Brad Elliott:
> ...does anybody know whether there are any more 
> Jane Canada records out there?

To the best of my knowledge there are two Jane Canada
45s. Well, one and a half. Read on:

"Am I Dreaming" bw "Your Eyes Will Tell You" Magic Lamp 616, 1965
"Am I Dreaming" bw "Remind My Baby Of Me" Crusader 125, 1966

I wonder if "Remind My Baby Of Me" could be the same
song recorded for Scepter by Billy Byers in 1964? Now,
there was a good record.

Unfortunately, I have yet to hear anything by Jane
Canada. I'll just have to make do with the British
version by Tiffany which is pretty fab.


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 15
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:07:55 -0500
   From: "Javed Jafri" 
Subject: Re: You're So Good To Me

 "Phil Chapman" writes:

> Not much mention seems to go to the Andrew Oldham produced
> version by The Factotums, which I think is one of the
> better Brit covers. I'm sure it's on an Immediate comp
> somewhere, but, as I know at least two Immediate artists
> that have never received a penny, I feel relatively
> guilt-free...

This was the first time I have heard this version and it
is indeed wonderful. It may be one of the best Beach Boys
covers ever. Can you give us more info about this
recording, it should have been a hit. Sounds like it from
the peak era of Mr. Oldham's career circa 66-67.

A big thanks to the list members for [playing] some great
music of late including Flower Music by the Osmonds and
the Byzantine Empire tracks.


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Message: 16
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 23:59:54 -0600
   From: "Justin McDevitt" 
Subject: Re: soft pop

Hi Bryan and Spectropop friends,

This is a great list representing the soft pop genre. I
would also include the Best of the Cyrcle CD on this list.
This is a great collection. The tracks, Please Don't Ever
Leave Me, (a wonderful example of harmonic soft pop),
released here in the US around Oct-Nov 1966 and the
followup track, I Wish You Could be Here, (released in
early 1967) are two of my favorite soft pop songs.  This
second track has a dreamy relaxed quality that holds my
attention just as much as it did when I first heard it.

Hats off also to Free Design, The Parade and Yellow
Balloon. Of course, it's not a coincidence that The
Association's first four LP's are the initial entries on
this list. I'm an invenerate Association fan, ever since
I heard Along Comes Mary in May of 1966, as a just-14
year-old eighth grader, about to enter high school. 

I understand that these Association Lp's have not been
released on CD which is a real shame, or are they
available as imports?

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Message: 17
   Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 00:48:40 -0600
   From: "Justin McDevitt" 
Subject: Re: soft pop again

Hi Alan and list friends,

This is my second email to the list in 10 minutes. Am I
becoming an early addict?

Alan, I concur with your comments  that a number of soft
pop bands and artists incorporated bits of rock,
psychedelia and bubblegum into the mix. The other day I
pulled out two vinyl LP's from the American Breed: great
harmonies and a little tinge of psychedelia as
reflective of the times.

The Buckinghams, another Chicago-based band flirted a
bit with psychedelia in their end-of-1967 song, "Susan".
The New Colony-6 (I believe also from Chicago) ventured
into this area as well. 

Spanky and Our Gang's "I'd Like To Get To Know You You"
is one of my favorite soft pop songs; the guitar-flute
lead-in to the end of the song, the harmonic vocal
echoes, the sound of a hand hitting a guitar to add
rhythm and richness! 

As I share these perceptions, I am aware of how great it
is do find folks like myself, many of whom are in
middle-age as I am, who love and remember this kind of
music as well as the other genres that are also
discussed and appreciated by this group. It's great to
be able to reflect on the ending of a song, (as I did
above) and people understand where I'm coming from,
without thinking I'm a bit strange, as my wife sometimes
does. But then she is 14 years younger than I am, (born
in 1965) and grew up with 70's and 80's stuff. She loves
and appreciates our generational interests and
differences, and so, appreciates that I sometimes get
all gushy about specific groups and songs that will be
with me until the day that I leave this earth. 

I have a three-year-old daughter (Maeve) who is deaf,
though she has a cochlear implant which provides her
with some hearing and the opportunity to learn vocal
language, used in conjunction with signing.  I don't
know that she'll ever get to hear music in the same way
that I do, though auditory technology has, and will
continue to improve in terms of fidelity. How ironic
that there are people with full auditory functioning who
don't give music a second thought.


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Message: 18
   Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 06:11:49 -0500
   From: Alan Miller 
Subject: Claus & Connie Rockin dem bells

> However, the next entry, from 1964, caught my
> attention: Connie Francis with Claus Ogerman - Lady
> Valet Theme/Rock Dem Bells (MGM13260). The A side
> crops up in a current Hungarian dance club Chillout
> playlist. Does this ring a bell with anyone? Phil

Yeah, this is one of my fav spins at the Club i dj at,
>from the soundtrack "looking for love" with Connie

The "lady valet" was a special stand for Ladies to hang
their clothes on and put their make-up in and on the album
sleeve it says that the actual item was available in

"Rock dem bells" was a popular play on the "Popcorn"scene
and is very groovy.   The single is pretty hard to come by
but the soundtrack is easily (and cheaply) getable.

In a similar vein are Al Hirt's "boy watchers theme" and
Stu Phillips "wild party".


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Message: 19
   Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 11:39:20 +0000
   From: Simon White 
Subject: Re: JANE CANADA

Mick Patrick wrote on 4/1/02:

> "Am I Dreaming" bw "Your Eyes Will Tell You" Magic Lamp 616, 1965
> "Am I Dreaming" bw "Remind My Baby Of Me" Crusader 125, 1966
> I wonder if "Remind My Baby Of Me" could be the same
> song recorded for Scepter by Billy Byers in 1964? Now,
> there was a good record.

Wonderful indeed.

 And  I wonder if  "Am I Dreaming " is the same as Delaney
Bramlett on Independence ?

Answers on a postcard please....

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Message: 20
   Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 21:44:03 -0000
   From: "Kingsley Abbott" 
Subject: Good Vibrations recording

Valuable as Carol comments are, and believe me I value
them extremely highly, I feel I must point out a couple
of points concerning the posting about my recent book on
'Pet Sounds' that Carol is referring to.  The book does
not anywhere claim that the hit version of GV was
recorded at Gold Star, but does list in an appendix what
is believed to be the first session that Brian recorded
for it when it was still under consideration for
inclusion for Pet Sounds. According to all published
information that I have seen, this occurred on the 18th
Feb 1966 at Gold Star, where Ray Pohlman took the Fender
bass chair.  It refers to Take 28 as being the master for
that session, and  does not claim that this is the hit
version which is well documented in many places as being
recorded in many sections in other studios during which
Carol was famously involved of course.  This section of
information concurs exactly with the booklet accompanying
the Pet Sounds Sessions Box Set (used with photographic
material with the kind permission of Capitol Records),
and this early session is referred to in the main text on
P.46, along with some of Tony Asher's original words for
the song.  As David Leaf indicated in a number of places
in the Sessions booklet, the whole session history is
particularly difficult, and that the details he included
were apparently taken from tape box legends.  My book
certainly does not claim in any way to be an attempt to
count every single rivet; it is aimed to be an
interesting summation of the writing and recording of a
wonderful album that will interest people who love the
music.  In several instances the book places very high
value on the musicians like Carol who were involved -
indeed, I do not believe that it could have happened in
any other way.  

Kingsley Abbott

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