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Spectropop - Digest Number 302

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There are 12 messages in this issue of Spectropop.

Topics in this Digest Number 302:

      1. Re: Ronettes Recordings
           From: Marc Wielage 
      2. Re: Ronettes Recordings
           From: LePageWeb 
      3. Re: Ronettes Recordings
           From: Mike W 
      4. The Last Two Weeks
           From: Michael Rashkow 
      5. Nick DeCaro LP find
           From: "Nick Archer" 
      6. Re: Sweet Talking Guy
           From: "gregg luvoxx" 
      7. Re: Sweet Talkin Guy
           From: James Botticelli 
      8. Re: curse the taunting liquid room
           From: James Botticelli 
      9. Re: UK Honeys
           From: Keith Moore 
     10. Louise Cordet
           From: Kieron Tyler 
     11. Re: catalina caper
           From: Simon White 
     12. Louise Cordet and the Orchids:
           From: "Ian Slater" 


Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:56:48 -0800
   From: Marc Wielage 
Subject: Re: Ronettes Recordings

Paul Urbahns commented on the Spectropop group:

> Hopefully, Ronnie and the girls will use some of the
> money and reinvest it in new recordings recreating their
> old hits so that they can circulated to the various
> labels and for use in future movies.

Jesus, I sure hope not!  There's no way a 58 year-old
singer like Ronnie Spector could properly recreate the way
she sounded almost 40 years ago, not even with the
greatest production in the world.

As far as I know, Allen Klein is the guy calling the shots
for re-licensing the Spector material for other labels.  I
think that was his deal, when he put out the WALL OF SOUND
boxed set a decade ago.

Klein already has a very profitable division that does
license songs for movies and TV shows.  As far as I know,
he'll even do that with the Cameo-Parkway material (though
it's not cheap).  Where he becomes difficult is when
someone wants to put out any of these songs on
_compilation albums_.

I don't know if he just flat-out says NO, or if he says,
"sure -- that'll be $100,000 per song."  Either way, they
discourage it to the point that you never see any Philles
material on multi-label compilations from Rhino, Time-Life,
or even foreign companies like Ace or Bear Family.

Man, you could imagine a Bear Family box of Ronnie
Spector's stuff?  Every thing she ever did that got
released, singles or albums, for the last 40 years?  Boy,
that'd be too hip...


-= Marc Wielage      |   "The computerized authority   =-
-= MusicTrax, LLC    |       on rock, pop, & soul."    =-
-= Chatsworth, CA    |                                 =-

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 2
   Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:09:13 +0900
   From: LePageWeb 
Subject: Re: Ronettes Recordings

On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:25:23 EST
Paul Urbahns wrote:

> Since Phil restricts [Philles recordings'] use to his
> label, other than a few spins on oldies radio, you
> never hear a Ronettes or Crystals record much anymore.

Yes, it sure does seem like that's true, but the $2.9
million awarded by the courts was for money Spector
collected on licensed reuses, which may or may not
include film, video and commercials. Phil must have
licensed the masters to someone to achieve that level of
income! The example quoted most often in the press is the
use of Be My Baby in the film "Dirty Dancing." That was a
biggie. Quadrophenia is another that comes to mind. 
> Hopefully, Ronnie and the girls will use some of the
> money and reinvest it in new recordings recreating their
> old hits so that they can circulated to the various
> labels and for use in future movies. 

There are companies out there already who specialize in
re-recording the old groups doing their hit material.
Naturally the most attractive project for such labels is
an artist whose original material is not widely
available and whose name value strongly appeals to a
certain demographic. Ronettes qualify big time on both
points. They could have done a re-recording album years
ago, and in fact, if they ever intended to do it, it
probably should have been done years ago, before ABKCO
made the Spector recordings available. However, even if
there was an album of re-recordings available, the
re-recordings couldn't be used in movies, and they never
would, because use in film or video requires publisher
approval. No matter who owns the re-recordings, the fact
is the Ronettes did not write the songs and cannot grant
synch rights for publishing. Enter Mother Bertha.

I can tell you that music publishers, like Spector, that
own/control both original recordings and publishing
strongly resist licensing their compositions if the
recording is a sound-alike. They nearly never agree if it
is a re-recording of an original group. The reason is
simple - Generally, re-recordings devalue the originals,
and specifically, it reduces the fee the publisher would
otherwise be entitled to if it licensed both publishing
and master reuse.

Unfortunately for those of us who are keen to see the
Ronettes et al take their deserved place in 60s pop
music history, the judgement in the Ronettes case will
probably result in even less use being made of these
recordings in future. 


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 3
   Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:04:22 -0000
   From: Mike W 
Subject: Re: Ronettes Recordings

Dear Paul and Jamie,

That the complainants in this legal action wanted ownership
of their Phil Spector recordings, just what the extent
that this desire would encompass, would be immeasurable,
in the sense that what did they define as "ownership" ?
It could have been anything from ANY recording they
performed it is well known that the group members
performed on many Phil Spector recordings, in different just recordings as the group The Ronettes.
I suspect they were going for the WHOLE THING, and
expected to be negotiated "down".

It's bad enough that the lawsuit set a lower bar, for
future complainants to take advantage of. It seems to
indicate that to be part of the Music Production Process,
one has to be breathing, and in a recording studio,
working in some capacity on a Song.

That they even went after this "ownership" aspect,
indicates the voraciousness of their own appetites in
starting the whole lawsuit. And to me that exposes the
true nature of what they wanted in the first place...not
setting the record straight via the monetary
compensation, but Greed. 

--- In Spectropop, Paul Urbahns wrote:
> Jamie wrote:
> > Let's also remember that in this same case the
> > Ronettes sought ownership of their Phil Spector
> > produced recordings! Think that's going too far? So
> > did Manhattan Supreme Court Judge Paula Omansky, who
> > wrote in her decision: "Spector's contributions to the
> > Ronettes' success cannot be underestimated, as
> > composer of their songs, and as creator of the sound
> > for which the Ronettes' recording hits became famous.
> > Rescinding the 1963 recording contract and taking
> > ownership of the masters away from Spector is not
> > warranted."
> Paul adds:
> I agree the full rights should not be taken away from
> Phil, but if joint rights of some kind were declared then
> the recordings would be licensed to various companies and
> would appear on the various artists comps that most
> people (meaning the general public) buy.

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 4
   Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:09:18 EST
   From: Michael Rashkow 
Subject: The Last Two Weeks

Hello Boys & Girls,

Though I have not been an active writer of late, I have
continued to be an avid reader when I can get a line and
download the postings.

It is better than the NY Times-- fershure!

Mark me down as another mother lover of Sweet Talkin' Guy.


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 5
   Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:28:37 -0600
   From: "Nick Archer" 
Subject: Nick DeCaro LP find

 I just bought a copy of the Nick DeCaro LP "Italian
Graffiti" at a local old record store. Mint in plastic,
original issue. In case anyone is interested, there were
five more in the bin. Let me know.

Nick Archer
Nashville TN

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 6
   Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:52:11 -0800
   From: "gregg luvoxx" 
Subject: Re: Sweet Talking Guy

Like the bright, sunny string intro, The Chiffons seem
rather upbeat regarding the *Sweet Talkin Guy*. They've
moved on.

Darlene Love, on the other hand, is simply lost in the
bloody Spectorian bathtub of misery, due in no small part
to the dishonest treachery of the dreaded "Quiet Guy".
It's all right there in the thick clinical depression of
the devestating *(He's a) Quiet Guy*. The lyrics to this
song ought to be written in stone.

Conversely, *He Hit Me* isn't as shocking and painful as
it should be, it's kind of weak lyrically. *The Best Part
of Breaking Up* is a stronger portrayal of the pain and
denial of this type of masochistic love affair.

It is beautiful music for sure, and it should be
appreciated by all, but I'm kind of glad that it isn't
overexposed like the bulk of Motown.

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 7
   Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:12:59 EST
   From: James Botticelli 
Subject: Re: Sweet Talkin Guy

Jack Madani writes:

> But I can NEVER bypass Sweet Talkin' Guy

One of the Chiffons best biggies, but when I produced
my 6T's obscure pop ishow in the 8T's I immediately
latched onto "Out Of This World". For all intents and
purposes its "Sweet Talkin' Guy II" the sequel (or
maybe the prequel and failed)...JB

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:08:52 EST
   From: James Botticelli 
Subject: Re: curse the taunting liquid room

Madani...Ponak is a West Coast Weenie....But can at
least lay claim to East Coast Roots...Botticelli/likes
both Ponak and his show and knows how valuable it is

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 9
   Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:01:35 -0000
   From: Keith Moore 
Subject: Re: UK Honeys

--- In Spectropop, "Ian Chapman" wrote:

> ...there was a girl-group called the Honeys in the UK,
> and I saw them as a kid on a variety bill in '67.  All I
> remember is they sang "Manana" and one of them was named
> Anita. They didn't make any records, but such trios were
> staple fare of variety shows back then, and didn't need
> to.
> Ian

Dear Ian

Thanks very much for responding to my query about the
Honeys - I didn't think the Rovell sisters and Ginger
Blake were likely to be running around the UK in '63.
Hopefully, someone will know the answer to the second part
of my question - who were Honey & the Hotpants???



--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 10
   Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:10:17 +0000
   From: Kieron Tyler 
Subject: Louise Cordet

"Ian Slater" said that Louise Cordet's "Two Lovers" is
"frankly embarrassing compared with the Mary Wells

I gotta disagree. Sure it's different. It's a radical
guitar-led beat-style version. Just listen to that chunky
and driving Jimmy Page rhythm underpinnings Louise's
purring vocals. One of the best UK '60s girl records.
Pure excitement on vinyl.

So there.

All the best, 


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 11
   Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:34:02 +0000
   From: Simon White 
Subject: Re: catalina caper

Oh you lucky people !

Thanks for all the replies chaps.

I have wanted to see the movie for half of my life ! It
seems it was [ is ] on video, but only in the  U.S.
format [  I'm in the U.K. ]. 'Scuba Party' was not
released on  anything else  but the movie.

So therefore it is the Little Richard holy grail for a
collector who also likes the stuff he did in the sixties.
I think I feel my Christmas present coming on !

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 12
   Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:25:28 -0000
   From: "Ian Slater" 
Subject: Louise Cordet and the Orchids:

I take Ian Chapman's point about Louise Cordet's version
of "Two Lovers" - I guess I'm sensitive to covers of early
Motown material as it was Motown that got me interested in
records to begin with! My main point was too press the
interest of the other material of these acts. I certainly
agree with the choice of Orchids tracks on Ian's excellent
"Girls' Scene" compilation (UK issue Deram 844 897-2).

Ian queried whether either act cut enough material for a
CD. Well, I make it 15 and 10 ISSUED tracks by Louise and
the Orchids respectively, but on the liner notes to "The
Girls' Scene", Pam Hepburn of the Orchids refers to some
"wonderful tracks hiding somewhere" including a session
with Bert Berns and Andrew Oldham.

I understand from someone in the business that UK Decca
were not good at keeping unissued material, but does
anyone know of the prospects of these and Decca tracks by
others coming to light, and being released?

Ian Slater

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

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