________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ For Better Results on all Your Records ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 8 messages in this issue of Spectropop. Topics in this Digest Number 300: 1. Re: RONETTES ROYALTIES From: LePageWeb 2. RONETTES ROYALTIES...ANOTHER VIEW From: Mike W 3. LaSalles on V.I.P. and Ronnie on H.S. From: "Spector Collector" 4. Re: 60s videos From: "Tony Leong" 5. Last True Girl Group Record? From: "Don Charles" 6. Jeanette From: "Antonio Vizcarra" 7. scuba party From: "Spectropop Administration" 8. Re: Louise Cordet From: "Ian Slater" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:09:56 +0900 From: LePageWeb Subject: Re: RONETTES ROYALTIES Thanks to Robert for posting to the photos section his news clipping on the subject of the appellate court upholding the previous ruling ordering Spector to pay $3 MILLION DOLLARS to the Ronettes. Nice to see your messages on Spectropop lately, Robert! After reading this and the article Mick so kindly posted (thanks!), I went back and read one of the June 2000 articles on the original judgement. Here 'tis: http://www.escribe.com/music/spectropop/bb/index.html?bID=35 In a nutshell, the key point is that the original contract between the three Ronettes and Phil (or Philles) concerned only royalties on records. The court found that the contract language should be read to exclude, rather than authorize, uses other than those stated in the contract, and in accordance with industry standards, all fees paid for reuses should be shared equally between the company (Phil) and the artist (The Ronettes). That is, in essence, the whole story as far as this case is concerned. Is 50% really industry standard? A bit of research into the subject confirms it is. Sort of. The variable comes with the definition of who is entitled to that 50%. This gets complicated, but in brief, the producer and the group manager (at the time the records were made) typically take the respective commission from that 50% as well. Now seeing that Spector's name value and success rate far exceeded that of the Ronettes at the time, and seeing that Spector essentially created the recordings under discussion, and managed the group, it would today be "standard industry practice" for him to take at the very least a substantial producer royalty and manager commission, perhaps 5/15 of the artist royalty and 20% of the artist royalty respectively. Add those and subtract >from the 50%; the artist would get just over 23%. But, for whatever reasons, no contract between Phil and the Ronettes read that way, so the Ronettes stand to receive the full 50% the court granted. So even though the 50% is indeed industry standard for what record companies should *pay* on reuse fees, that percentage is a heck of a lot more than a modern R&B vocal trio (e.g., TLC) would *receive* for similar third party reuse fees. For an in-depth article on current industry standard with regard to how artist royalties are split up, check out this rap coalition (!) page: http://www.rapcoalition.org/generic.html?pid=10 Let's also remember that in this same case the Ronettes sought ownership of their Phil Spector produced recordings! Think that's going too far? So did Manhattan Supreme Court Judge Paula Omansky, who wrote in her decision: "Spector's contributions to the Ronettes' success cannot be underestimated, as composer of their songs, and as creator of the sound for which the Ronettes' recording hits became famous. Rescinding the 1963 recording contract and taking ownership of the masters away from Spector is not warranted." Anyway, this judgement made me think about something outside the issues raised in this case. Given the time the contract was signed (May 6, 1963), Ronnie, Estelle and Nedra undoubtedly had equal 1/3 share in the Ronettes' royalties. If a similar contract would be signed today, chances are Ronnie would be the only royaltor and the others would be hired guns for concert performances and photos. Such is the nature of the beast. At the time, the three girls must have been ecstatic when the Tycoon of Teen set out to turn them into the ultimate girl group. Today they would have three separate attorneys at each others throats before committing a note to tape. One wonders why Spector didn't try to sign only Ronnie in the first place. But I digress. I'm not trying to Milli Vanilli-ize the two Ronettes here or anything like that - god knows I adore their records - but to tell you the truth, I really can't tell if Estelle and Nedra actually sang on any of their Philles' recordings (for which they are now being paid a cool mil each). If so, which tracks specifically? Does anyone know for sure? Just curious... Jamie n.p. Is This What I Get For Lovin' You Baby - Ronettes --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:50:11 -0000 From: Mike W Subject: RONETTES ROYALTIES...ANOTHER VIEW Dear Members, To me, it just sounds like just alot of Sour Grapes and Misery, that is the perfect recipe for the Media, who has fun with public figures like Spector. To me, this does not diminish Spector's Genius, which is just the aim of this too late, and punitive legal action like this. What looks bad are ignorant artists like these, who come on like Innocents, and who were not forced to become famous or who knowingly signed contracts and did business at a "disadvantage" with people in the Music Business. If the truth be told, at the time they were employed by Spector, these artists would do ANYTHING to take advantage of the opportunity that was offered to them, as ANYONE would. This lawsuit is designed to "even things out", but all it does is produce "positive" publicity, and the wrong message to send, for artists with stalled and DEAD music careers, that can't find a place in Today's Music Marketplace. These are people, I use the term very loosely, who feel that looking stupid, and, ahem, "innocent" is worth it...and I guess it is, isnt it ? But they are so out of it, they don't realize it's NOTHING to be proud of. I'm sure Spector will appeal it, and he should! It's a bad day for the Law, and a bad day for Music. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:16:25 +0000 From: "Spector Collector" Subject: LaSalles on V.I.P. and Ronnie on H.S. I just got a 45 by The LaSalles on Motown subsid V.I.P. 25036 (1966). The songs are "La La La La La La"/"This Is True." The seller listed it as a girl group record, but I'm just not sure, and I wondered if anybody here has any information on the group. The lead singer's voice sounds to me like what you might get if you put Lulu, The Rocky Fellers, Brenda Lee, and The Aubrey Twins in a blender. Help! On an unrelated topic, I've learned that Ronnie Spector has taped two episodes of the game show Hollywood Squares. Installments in a "Classic Rock" theme week, they're scheduled to air in the U.S. on December 31 and January 2. Other guests include Dionne Warwick, Frankie Valli, Mark Lindsay, and Pat Boone. David A. Young --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:59:03 -0000 From: "Tony Leong" Subject: Re: 60s videos --- In spectropop, "Phil Chapman" asked: > is the Shindig Chiffons' clip commercially available? > do you know of any available clips of The > Ronettes or Crystals lip-synching to the Philles > recordings? > > Phil Phil: Hello, the Chiffons on Shindig is NOT commercially available, but I got the clip off of a friend. The only other Chiffons appearances on ANY show are an American Bandstand show for "He's So Fine" and "A Love So Fine". I have a friend Dennis Garvey that recalls seeing the girls doing "The Real Thing" on a local NY show. As for the Crystals, they are also listed as doing "Little Boy" on Bandstand, which I have not seen. BUT, I have clips of them on Shebang in July 1965 miming "Da Doo Ron Ron" and "He's A Rebel". The line-up was LaLa (miming the lead) with DeeDee and Frances. They also appeared on Where The Action Is including a performance of "He's Sure The Boy I Love". Most Ronettes clips I have include them miming "Be My Baby" and "Is This What I Get For Loving You". Photos do exist of a Lloyd Thaxton appearance where the girls mimed "Walkin In The Rain". Another friend of mine has the girls singing "You Baby" from Hullabaloo. I guess that was almost a single in late 1965. US cable TV occasionally shows the ENTIRE "Big TNT Show", and it is wonderful!! The Ronettes sing "Be My Baby" and "Shout", but the way the film was edited, it appears that the group sang something else between those 2 numbers. Of course Darlene and the Blossoms were on every Shindig (except 1 where the Ikettes replaced them), but they did not seem to do ANY Philles material on that programme. They backed up other artists or sang hits of the day by other people. Anybody out there have any recollections or tapes of Shangri-Las TV appearances, especially in the UK!!!!!!! Tony Leong --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:04:27 +0000 From: "Don Charles" Subject: Last True Girl Group Record? "David Bash" wrote > >I would nominate "Condition Red" by The Goodees as a true >girl group record made after Sweet Talkin Guy. It was >originally released in 1968 on Hip Records, and can now >be found on CD on the excellent Ace Records compilation >"Where The Girls Are". > >One could also call 1969's "Nothing But A Heartache" by >The Flirtations a true girl group record. What about Josie and The Pussycats (a group whose output is still woefully neglected by girl group collectors) and their wonderful 1970 singles "With Every Beat Of My Heart" and "You've Come A Long Way, Baby?" What about The Pointer Sisters, who recorded "He's So Shy" and "Should I Do It" in the '80s? What about Tracey Ullman's sublime "They Don't Know?" I submit that true girl group records have never stopped being made. It's just a question of quantity now. Don Charles --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:32:03 +0100 From: "Antonio Vizcarra" Subject: Jeanette Hi everybody. Jeanette was in fact an american singer, she started recording in the late 60's in the spanish group Pic-Nic, all their singles are really worth checking out. They also released an album. These recordings were recently reissued in Spain on a cd which features also the single sides they cut for the spanish market and unreleased tracks. In the 70's she went solo - the biggest hits were released on the first half of the decade. "Por que te vas?" the song featured on the film "Cria cuervos" from Carlos Saura became a big hit in Spain and France. In the eighties she had a sort of come back, these are the recordings that Sheila mentions. If anybody is interested on her recordings, please let me know. All the best. Antonio. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:15:07 +0900 From: "Spectropop Administration" Subject: scuba party Posted to Spectropop Bulletin board by Simon W on Wed, 21 Nov 2001 http://www.escribe.com/music/spectropop/bb/index.html?bID=256 Hello girls and boys. New to Spectropop and I hope you can help me! I'm looking for info on two things. 1. the movie 'CATALINA CAPER [NEVER STEAL ANYTHING WET]' with Mary Wells and more importantly, Little Richard singing 'SCUBA PARTY'. Did it come out on video [uk format ] or even dvd? Has anyone seen the movie? 2. Does anyone have any info on The Elites on Era records? --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:07:48 -0000 From: "Ian Slater" Subject: Re: Louise Cordet Further to Alan Miller's comments about reissues of Louise Cordet's material, I think she has been poorly served. I believe "Two Lovers" is the only track currently available and it is frankly embarrassing compared with the Mary Wells classic! Her EP "The Sweet Sound of..." is very much more appropriate with the ballad "Everytime" my own favourite - none of the tracks were issued on her 5 UK singles and she never had an LP. Anyone who likes "So Hard to Be Good" on the film "Disco-O-Tec Holiday" (aka "Just for You") is unlikely to be disapointed by any of her singles (except perhaps "2 Lovers/ Don't Make Me Over" - she really wasn't a soul singer). How about a CD, Decca? And one of the Orchids too! Ian Slater PS - thanks to other subscribers for infomation on other Chiffons video clips. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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