________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 21 messages in this issue of Spectropop. Topics in this Digest Number 274: 1. A fine fine group From: Phil Chapman 2. J-Pop/The Cake From: Stewart Mason 3. Re: The Cake- saw 'em on Smothers Brothers! From: Charles Ellis 4. Re: Yes Sir, That's My Baby From: "Peter Lerner" 5. Re: Yes Sir, That's My Baby From: "Brad Elliott" 6. Sunshine Company on Revola From: "Kingsley Abbott" 7. Re: Overlanders From: "Peter Lerner" 8. Re: Overlanders From: Richard Havers 9. Re: Various From: Carol Kaye 10. Re: Snuff 'n' Richard From: "Spector Collector" 11. Marshall Session From: "Randy M. Kosht" 12. Re: ELLIE GREENWICH From: "Don Charles" 13. Re: Soft Pop/ Psych/ Association Heebie Jeebies From: Jason 14. Re: Soft pop '66 From: Jason 15. The Goodies From: Mark Tilley 16. Re: Overlanders From: Michael Marino 17. Re: Overlanders From: "Robert Conway" 18. Re: Bravo program From: Mike W 19. Re: Achievement (trivia) From: "Peter Lerner" 20. TRIVIA QUESTION From: "radiopro" 21. qualifying the Diamonds From: Frank Youngwerth ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:09:31 -0000 From: Phil Chapman Subject: A fine fine group Congratulations to our hard-working moderators- membership has now officially reached 500! Keep it up. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:48:30 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: J-Pop/The Cake Bill Reed writes: >I highly recommend these and stylistically-related Nihon >artists to anyone who has a lingering/ongoing affection >for that big, fat, layered, vertically and horizontally >complex Euro pop "sound" that so heavily draws upon the >well of Spectropop. Especially Tats and prolific >Spectorian producer/performer Ohtaki. I concur, though I'd add that a lot of these performers, particularly Dreams Come True, use a lot of synths and electronic percussion and have an occasionally disco-ish sound that may not be to all tastes here. (Pizzicato 5, who are possibly better known in the US than they are in their native Japan, is an easily available introduction to this style -- I recommend their Matador releases MADE IN USA or THE SOUND OF MUSIC.) Staying in Asia, I'd avoid most of the Canto-pop performers from Hong Kong (they make Britney Spears sound like Tina Turner), but I've always really liked Faye Wong. Besides being drop-dead gorgeous (see her in Wong Kar-Wai's CHUNGKING EXPRESS, her first acting role), she's one of the more interesting Asian pop singers, melding east and west better than most. Her most famous song is probably her Cantonese version of the Cranberries' "Dreams," which just shreds the original (partially because her voice doesn't have the annoying affectations of Dolores O'Riordan, the Cranberries' singer), but she's done some other interesting work. She sounds kind of like ABBA working with Kate Bush. Also: >I've got the second LP by The Cake and it pretty much > sucks ! Must be a different version of the Cake's second album than the one I heard, because I think A SLICE OF THE CAKE is worlds better than the first album, which is so fragmented and disjointed it sounds like three groups on one record. The second album melds the girl-group and lite-psych strains much better, which does have the unfortunate effect of making the pair of R&B songs stick out, and not in a good way. But the rest of the album is terrific. "Extroverted Introvert" is one of the most completely over the top songs I've ever heard. ("Let's see, steel drum band or full orchestra? Ahh, just put 'em both on!") S --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:37:14 -0000 From: Charles Ellis Subject: Re: The Cake- saw 'em on Smothers Brothers! Well, a few years ago, the E! channel showed all of the classic Smothers Brothers shows, and I actually managed to see the Cake's appearance! they looked absolutely deadpan, looking straight in the camera as they sang a big Spectorlike number (No, it wasn't "Baby That's Me"- this other song was a slow-placed metallic number with Wall of Sound effects) By the way, this was the FIRST time I had even heard the group, and would love to find MP3s or CDs from this amazing femme group. BTW, does anyone know where in the NYC area I can get my hands on some of those Brill Building demo CDs by King/Greenwich/Mann et al? Charles Ellis --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:31:43 +0100 From: "Peter Lerner" Subject: Re: Yes Sir, That's My Baby My Hale and the Hushabyes 45 (Reprise 0299) says "arranged and produced by Jack Nitzsche". Peter "Andrew Hickey" wrote: > According to MOJO Collections the track (under the name > The Date With Soul) was 'put together by' Nitzsche, and > Spector's singing backups, along with the Blossoms, > Sonny And Cher, BW and 'some guy sitting in the lobby' > with Edna Wright singing. Doesn't say if it was Spector > or Nitszche who produced it, but both were present, so... --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:40:41 -0500 From: "Brad Elliott" Subject: Re: Yes Sir, That's My Baby Andrew Hickey wrote: > According to MOJO Collections the track (under the name > The Date With Soul) was 'put together by' Nitzsche, and > Spector's singing backups, along with the Blossoms, > Sonny And Cher, BW and 'some guy sitting in the lobby' > with Edna Wright singing. Doesn't say if it was Spector > or Nitzsche who produced it, but both were present Not according to Jack himself! In the Winter '76/77 issue of BOMP! magazine, Ken Barnes did a lengthy interview with Jack Nitzsche, discussing most of the great arranger's work to that point. Here's what Nitzsche said about "Yes, Sir, That's My Baby": "This [the Date With Soul 45 on York] is the third one. There's one on Reprise as Hale & The Hushabyes and one before that on another label [Apogee]. That's an all-star group, that one -- that's Brian Wilson singing falsetto, with Sonny & Cher and the Blossoms and Albert Stone. The guy singing bass is someone who was in the lobby. Honest to God, a black guy was in the lobby and I went out there and said, "Do you sing bass?" He said yeah, and I said, "Come in and sing it." That's Edna Wright singing lead, singer of the Honey Cone. Darlene Love's singing background. Jackie DeShannon's on there. It was good. "That was also the session where I met the Rolling Stones. Andrew Oldham called me and asked if they could come. All these people were in the studio recording and the Stones walked in. Wow ... but nobody cared. "First Terry Melcher did this ["Yes, Sir"] with a guy named Little E. So we did this at Columbia but it never came out. I thought it was a good idea... Charlie [Greene] and Brian [Stone] didn't have any money, so we went to RCA and just recorded it, because we were so sure of it -- and nobody got paid. Sold it to Reprise. I got the people. Charlie and Brian just sat there and smiled." Surely is Spector had been at the session, Nitzsche would have mentioned him. But he didn't, so ... Brad --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:02:47 +0100 From: "Kingsley Abbott" Subject: Sunshine Company on Revola I compiled and annotated the Revola SC CD, and can confirm that there were no unreleased tracks on that one - just my own choice from the three albums. We did investigate if there were any outakes available, but at that stage at least the cupboard was bare. I've recently heard from Maury Manseau that he liked the notes and selection. I smiled! BTW if you do manage to somehow acquire a Revola CD, please don't judge me on the punctuation therein - it seems that revola had a strange apostophe black hole sweeping around North London when that was done! Kingsley Abbott PS Surely the great "Club Seventeen" was the B-side of "New York's a Lonely Town". wasn't it?? Wasn't "The Party Starts At Nine" out with "Summertime girl"? Or did US/UK issues vary??/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:35:05 +0100 From: "Peter Lerner" Subject: Re: Overlanders The Overlanders were a fairly soft folky UK group, who recorded on Pye, and surprisingly had a number 1 hit over here with their cover of the Beatles' "Michelle". I never liked them much but to each his own - I'd rate them as ploddingly listenable in a damp sort of way. Peter "Robert Conway" wrote: > Here's my question of the day: Anybody recall a UK group > (circa 1963-65) called the Overlanders (UK Pye/U.S. > Hickory) that had a couple of minor U.S. hits including > "Don't It Make You Feel Good?" > > ...their entire output is now out on a new UK > import for a budget price (under $15). Again as with > most of the first wave of the British Invasion, song > quality is a bit uneven, but nevertheless definitely > entertaining. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:40:45 +0100 From: Richard Havers Subject: Re: Overlanders Robert Some Overlanders stuff...... Best Wishes Richard The Overlanders Hits: 1 Weeks on Chart: 10 Genuine one hit wonders, one number one single and no other chart entry for the five piece who started life as a vocal & guitar trio. They were former income tax collector and typewriter salesman Laurie Mason (b.1.11.40 Middlesborough) Thames bus hand, Peter Bartholomew (b.20.5.41 Andover, Hampshire) and Paul Arnold, real name Paul Arnold Friswell, trainee grocer (b.18.8.42 Coventry). Their debut single released in the late summer of '63 Summer Skies and Golden Sands, failed to make the chart, as did the follow up Movin' and indeed the next seven releases in Britain; Pye certainly had faith! It was probably helped by the fact that their third single, Yesterday's Gone, an old Chad and Jeremy number, managed to make No.75 in the US charts in '64. In '65 two new additions were added to the line-up, bass player and former lab technician Terry Widlake, real name Harry Terance Widlake (b.21.4.42 Birmingham) and ex-clerk Dave Walsh (b.10.8.47 Birmingham) on drums. Their long overdue break came when producer Tony Hatch, who also played piano on the record, suggested they cover the Beatles' Michelle, they did and it went to No.1 for 3 weeks in January '66. An EP and album followed, and they reverted to their tradition of non-hit singles, including a cover of the Mamas and Papa's hit Go Where You Wanna Go. In October '66 Arnold left, to be replaced by lan Griffiths. By '67 Paul Petts had joined on bass and Paul Brett on lead guitar, the outfit finally spilt in September '67 when Petts and Brett joined the Warren Davis Monday Band. By the following year Brett was playing alongside Richard Hudson and John Ford (later to have hits as members of The Strawbs and as Hudson Ford) in Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera. He later formed a band under his own name that made 10 or so albums between '70 & '80, using the name Paul Brett's Sage in the early days. Pye 7N 15544 Summer Skies And Golden Sands/Call Of The Wild 1963 Pye 7N 15568 Movin'/Rainbow 1963 Pye 7N 15619 Yesterday's Gone/Gone In The Rainbow 1964 Pye 7N 15678 Sing A Song Of Sadness/Don't It Make You Feel Good 1964 Pye 7N 15712 If I Gave You/I Wonder Why 1964 Pye 7N 15719 The Leaves Are Falling/Delia's Gone 1964 Pye 7N 15804 Along Came Jones/Walking The Soles Off My Shoes 1965 Pye 7N 15883 Freight Train/Take The Bucket To The Well 1965 Pye 7N 15967 Room Enough For You And Me/January 1965 Pye 7N 17034 Michelle/Cradle Of Love 1966 1 Pye 7N 17068 My Life/The Girl From Indiana 1966 Pye 7N 17159 Go Where You Wanna Go/Don't Let It Happen Again 1966 -- --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:26:27 -0700 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: Various > Gary Lewis and The Playboys (Carol...were you a > Playboy) Haha, I played on quite a few of the Gary Lewis and Playboys hits yes, and Bobby Vee, and other "Bobbys" too, Vail, Darin, etc. see my Biography page on my website for some credits. I'm not surprised that Snuffy produced Roy Rogers -- Snuf always wore his cowboy hat around Hollywood, was a very straight guy, good person to work for, he was very revered by the studio musicians. BTW, we were all influenced by Roy Rogers and the fine Sons Of The Pioneers (some of whom were jazz musicians) with the good musical backgrounds, but it wasn't until I worked later for Walter Scharf that I realized the connection....Walter was writing the music for those cowboy films of Roy Rogers' and Walter began with Al Jolson....what a guy Walter was. One raise of the eyebrow and you knew he was listening to you, and you carefully played his music but being an Easterner, he was a LOT of fun to work for, a very gregarious, gracious man - those National Geographic things we all did for him were great music. So you might say that one of Snuffy Garrett's musical influences was of Walter Scharf's musical backgrounds of those Roy Rogers films.... Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:21:44 +0000 From: "Spector Collector" Subject: Re: Snuff 'n' Richard I understand all the points Warren Cosford made in his last post regarding Snuff Garrett, but as a point of order, it must be noted that twice in that message he confuses another of Phil Spector's "rival" producers, Richard Perry, with Garrett (in his references to work with Ringo and The Pointer Sisters). David A. Young --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:56:36 -0700 From: "Randy M. Kosht" Subject: Marshall Session Hi, Carol: Your mention of Marshall Lieb and Gold Star... > Marshall [Lieb] and Bob [Criswell], good young men, very > nice, worked for them mainly at Gold Star from what I > recall. Think I was just recording on guitar then - I > remember their tracks as some pretty good music. ...inspires a question. There was a Chris Montez B-side produced by Marshall Lieb, "Go Head On." Chris wrote it and it was the flip to "Call Me." Were you playing guitar on it? Randy --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 12 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:40:51 +0000 From: "Don Charles" Subject: Re: ELLIE GREENWICH I conducted that "rather marvelous" interview with Mark Barkan that you speak of. He was indeed filled with praise about Ellie Greenwich, as anyone would be after hearing her marvelous singing voice. Bob Crewe was even more adulatory about her talents when I interviewed him. Don Charles Mick Patrick wrote: >On first hearing I find the standout tracks to be Ellie's >original demos of "House Of Gold", "He's Got Something", >"I'll Try Anything", "Time To Go" and "She's A Liar" all >of which were written or co-written by Mark Barkan. I >seem to recall a rather marvellous interview with that >great songwriter some years ago in which he said that >Ellie Greenwich was his favourite demo singer. Buy this >CD and you'll understand why. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 13 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:01:29 EDT From: Jason Subject: Re: Soft Pop/ Psych/ Association Heebie Jeebies In a message dated 10/22/2001 JOSEPH SCOTT writes: > Re the Association, their "Pandora's Golden Heebie I'm with you there, Joseph. Phenomenal song. Very progressive. No one would believe it was the Association if you asked them. Which leads me to the conclusion maybe Mr. Boettcher was involved with this one. After all, it was the first single released after the album he produced for them, a couple months before their second lp that was produced by Jim Yester's brother. Curt produced the "b"-side "Standing Still". Also, there's the re-appearance of the koto, which as far as I know was only featured "Pandora's" and Curt and Tandyn Almer's "Message of Our Love" from the first lp. Anyone care to speculate with me? Jason --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 14 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:18:36 EDT From: Jason Subject: Re: Soft pop '66 In a message dated 10/22/2001 spectropop writes: > Some more '66 stuff that is in the general ballpark of > "soft psych" is > "Remember," Association > "I'm Only Sleeping," Beatles > "Love Seems Doomed," Blues Magoos > "Steve's Song," Blues Project > "Section 43," Country Joe and the Fish > "Dance Of The Freak-Gropers," Fugs > "Electric Tomorrow," Electric Tomorrow > "Runnin' 'Round This World," Jefferson Airplane > "Orange Skies," Love > "Flowers In My Mind," Rockin' Ramrods > "Turn To Earth," Al Stewart Can I add some to your list? "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times" -- Beach Boys "I Won't Hurt You" (first version) -- WCPAEB "Panama Red" -- Yellow Balloon "Message of Our Love" -- Association "Time is After You" (first version) -- Peanut Butter Conspiracy "That's the Way it's Gonna Be" -- Lee Mallory "Softly to Me" -- Love "I'm Only Sleeping" -- Beatles "Look Through My Window" -- Mamas & Papas (1966 single) "Out of My Mind" -- Buffalo Springfield "the Music Scene" -- Fapardokly That's all I can think of for now! Jason --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 15 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:59:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Tilley Subject: The Goodies Does anybody have any info on the group The Goodies? In particular the song Dum Dum Ditty. I'm curious to know who the lead singer was and who played drums. I'm betting on Hal Blaine. It sounds like his style. Carol, maybe you can enlighten me. --- Carol Kaye wrote: > Spector was never hard to work for, wasn't a > "taskmaster" except....that sometimes he wouldn't > observe Union-mandated breaks and tho' we were all > game for working long hours - no problem, it got a bit > much to do go without bathroom breaks sometimes. He > respected us tho', was good to work for and sometimes > fun too...altho' a few musicians and singers later > said some other things. It got boring tho' doing 1 > song for 3 hours. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 16 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 05:15:49 -0000 From: Michael Marino Subject: Re: Overlanders --- In spectropop, "Robert Conway" wrote: > Here's my question of the day: Anybody recall a UK group > (circa 1963-65) called the Overlanders (UK Pye/U.S. > Hickory) that had a couple of minor U.S. hits including > "Don't It Make You Feel Good?" That single came out > about the same time as the Kinks' "You Really Got Me." > Definitely a FOLK-pop group that had that unique UK > harmony sound similar to the Springfields. > Anyhow...their entire output is now out on a new UK > import for a budget price (under $15). Again as with > most of the first wave of the British Invasion, song > quality is a bit uneven, but nevertheless definitely > entertaining. > > Bob Conway Wow! Totally forgot about this group. As I recall, they did a pretty good version of "Michelle" which was a big hit in England. Thanks for the heads up. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 17 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 23:02:11 -0500 From: "Robert Conway" Subject: Re: Overlanders Thanks Richard for the extensive information. Sometimes the Billboard charts didn't tell the entire story, especially in the sixties when the East Coast and the West Coast seemed to be a bit combative when it came to each other's musical tastes. With that in mind, the Midwest (Chicagoland) sometimes was ignored or overlooked yet we seemed to be able to digest the music of both coasts and turn out some great pop (Cryan' Shames, Buckinghams) at the same time. "Don't It Make You Feel Good" made the Top 20 in Chicago around the same time as the Kinks' "You Really Got Me." For whatever reason I fell in love with the song, but then I also liked "Tossin' and Turning" (plus a few others) by the Ivy League and quite a bit by the Rockin' Berries. I even remember Twinkle! Thanks again. Bob Conway Richard Havers wrote: > >Robert > >Some Overlanders stuff...... > >Best Wishes > >Richard --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 18 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 06:04:11 -0000 From: Mike W Subject: Re: Bravo program Another program to look for on US, PBS stations, is the "History of Rock and Roll"...it's at least 8 to 10, one-hour programs that really gets to the essence, like no other TV distillation-presentation of the history and popular music trends of rock, that I have seen. I was fortunate to catch a complete viewing of all of programs, in marathon presentation, one holiday...and it's astounding ! I believe it also was released on VHS too! Catch it if you can ! --- In Spectropop, Will George wrote: > I just finished watching a very interesting hour-long > program on the Bravo channel. It is called Popular Song: > Soundtrack of the Century. It was all about the Brill > Building writers, and included scenes of Phil Spector > with Darlene Love in the studio, clips of The Crystals, > Gene Pitney, Neil Sedaka, Righteous Bros, and interviews > with Pitney, Mann & Weill, Ellie Grenwich, Sedaka, and > others. I'm sure it wil be repeated, so watch your > listings. > > Will --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 19 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:27:31 +0100 From: "Peter Lerner" Subject: Re: Achievement (trivia) OK here goes. Hank Williams??? Peter > > Who is the only person to be inducted into the Rock and > Roll Hall of Fame, the Country Music Hall of Fame and > the Songwriters Hall of Fame? > > Michael Marino --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 20 Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:58:44 -0400 From: "radiopro" Subject: TRIVIA QUESTION Three performers - Johnny Cash, Jimmie Rodgers and Hank Williams, Sr. - are in the Rock 'N' Roll, Country and Songwriters Hall of Fame. A check of the respective web sites for these Halls confirms this. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 21 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 01:21:55 EDT From: Frank Youngwerth Subject: qualifying the Diamonds > What galled me the most is that he always talked about > "Our big hit single thus and such" before he sang each > song, never once mentioning that all of the Diamonds' > biggest hit singles (barring "The Stroll," itself a bald > rip-off of Chuck Willis' version of "See See Rider") were > poached from black artists. There's an interesting exception, though. The Diamonds landed their version of Buddy Holly's "Words of Love" fairly high on Billboard's "Most Played by Jockeys" chart two months before (Buddy and) the Crickets' own chart debut (with "That'll Be the Day," whose title was "poached" from a famous movie line). The Beatles' cover is far better known, but the Diamonds appear to be the only act to have a hit with "Words...," and the first to get any Holly song (mis-spelled 'Buddy Holley' on the Mercury label) onto pop radio. Frank Youngwerth ps: Mick Patrick, it was your compilations that got me majorly into lesser-known girl groups fifteen years ago. Thanks. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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