________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ There are 11 messages in this issue of Spectropop. Topics in this Digest Number 262: 1. Medley Interview From: Paul Urbahns 2. New poll for the Spectropop Group From: Spectropop Polls 3. aural sects From: "Spector Collector" 4. Brill Building in "Vanity Fair" From: Robert Bates 5. is he watching us?? From: Mark Landwehr 6. Re: THEN HE KISSED ME From: Ton Borsboom 7. RE: Spectropop From: "Country Paul" 8. Trouble in Paradise From: LePageWeb 9. publishing "Paradise" From: "Spector Collector" 10. Re: STRANGER IN PARADISE From: "Spector Collector" 11. from Perry Botkin From: Carol Kaye ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:49:14 EDT From: Paul Urbahns Subject: Medley Interview Rex wrote: > I interviewed him in 1983 and Bill told me that > he did indeed produce "Unchained Melody" and that he > never wanted to produce the Philles albums but he did > it by default. Spector told him that he would put > everything into the singles but that he wouldn't have > time to do the albums and that Medley could do them. That's probably his viewpoint of the story I heard all these years that Larry Levine suggested to Phil when Lovin' Feeling was a hit that Phil do an album. Phil said words to the effect I don't work like that, I do singles and then collect them as an album. It was supposedly Levine that mentioned to Phil to let Bill Medley do the filler songs. Once thje Lovin' Feeling LP was such a big seller Phil saw there was gold in them hills and started issuing albums regularly on Righteous Brothers and Tina Turner. But that was too late in the Philles story. Of course he did do albums with filler early on. The Crystals LPs are Phil's own defintion of an LP: 2 hits and 10 pieces of junk. Medley taking credit is trying to save face in a song he does not sing. Paul Urbahns --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: 12 Oct 2001 04:48:48 -0000 From: Spectropop Polls Subject: New poll for the Spectropop Group Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the Spectropop Group: For nearly four decades, ever since Righteous Brothers' Unchained Melody first became a hit, Phil Spector has been listed as producer on all releases of the recording. However, one of the Righteous Brothers, Bill Medley, claims he actually produced the track and has never been given due credit. What do Spectropop members think? o It was Phil o It was Bill o Bill probably was involved but that doesn't warrant producer credit o Phil probably was involved but should have given producer credit to Bill Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site. Thanks! --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:27:07 +0000 From: "Spector Collector" Subject: aural sects It's certainly been fascinating to see the troops lining up on the two sides of the great Medley/Spector "Unchained Melody" debate, and given the compelling evidence produced in favor of each argument, it's also been educational in expanding my ideas of what a producer really does to earn that title. I, too, was ready to let Bill's "Ghost"-era version of the song for Curb decide for me that he couldn't have done the Philles one, but Peter Richmond's convincingly presented case made me feel a lot less sure. Thanks to all for the stimulating conversation. One thing I love about this group is the respect we show each other, even when disagreeing with or correcting each other's posts. Speaking of people listening to the same song and hearing different things, why can't I detect Ronnie Spector's voice on the Jimi Hendrix tune "Earth Blues"? The Ronettes are the credited background vocalists on the number, which originally appeared on his "Rainbow Bridge" album and was this year issued, in an alternate version, on the 8-LP/4-CD "Jimi Hendrix Experience" box set. Ronnie talks about it in her book, and I can hear female backgrounds, but as familiar as I am with her voice, I can't pick it out on either version, even though others have told me that they swear they do. David A. Young --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 15:09:32 -0400 From: Robert Bates Subject: Brill Building in "Vanity Fair" This month's Vanity Fair -- the one with the rescuers on it, but also the "Music Issue" -- has an oral history of the Brill Building. Haven't read it yet, but has quotes from Bachrach, Cynthia Weil, Shadow Morton, etc. Enjoy! Regards, Rob --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:17:31 -0400 From: Mark Landwehr Subject: is he watching us?? > > if Phil Spector, Brian Wilson or any of the other music > > makers discussed here subscribe to/read/know about > > Spectropop. > Carol Kaye replied: > Most of anyone who is of that vip hasn't the time usually, > and even if they did, they don't know how to type well, > if at all... > I heard a totally unsubstantiated rumor some time back that Spector surfs the net & checks out stuff written about him...Maybe someone sends him the Spectropop postings!! Hey, Gary, what do you know about this? Hi, Uncle Phil!!!! (just in case) Mark The REVISED Phil Spector Record Label Gallery @ http://home/tbbs.net/~msland/Spector --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:09:36 -0000 From: Ton Borsboom Subject: Re: THEN HE KISSED ME Mick Patrick wrote: > Original message: > > > If you were a woman I could kiss you!! > > Thanks for giving me the information I was looking for. > > Ton Borsboom > > Gasp! Is Ton the first to openly declare his sexual > preference on Spectropop? If I'd have known there was a > snog on offer I'd have thought about trying to identify > that mystery artist myself. > > With or without tongues? > > MICK PATRICK Hi Mick, Sorry, but I can't help it that I prefer women. Maybe it's because they taste so sweet...but to you I can say this "Oh, Yeah, Maybe, Baby"...........for when I have another question for the Spectropoppers and you can give me the right answer. BTW no answer on the tongue question. To all Spectropop members: I already loved the oldies music 60's / 70's and especially the Phil Spector part but by reading the postings done by the members of Spectropop I became more and more interested in oldies music I have never heard of and I like the stories behind it all. Thank you all and keep it going, I love this place!! Ton Borsboom --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:17:06 -0400 From: "Country Paul" Subject: RE: Spectropop Thanks for posting this. As a newbie on this list, it is a great reference, and has found its way into my "favorites" category. In my first posting, I commented: [I wonder] "if Phil Spector, Brian Wilson or any of the other music makers discussed here subscribe to/read/know about Spectropop." Carol, thanks for your reply. I know they all must still be busy, but as I said in my more detailed response on your website, a well-placed authoritative comment or two might keep a few of the "mind excursions" I've read a little more on track. But I'm delighted at discovering Spectropop - so many doors opening wider into some of my favorite musical styles... And I join with the previous writer in thanking you for your excellent commentary on Brian Wilson, especially coming after reading "The Nearest Faraway Place." The "Pet Sounds" concert on 2000 was almost a religious experience for me. Country Paul --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:45:19 +0900 From: LePageWeb Subject: Trouble in Paradise Hi All, Agent Patrick has discovered a misquote in my post titled "Stranger In Paradise" dated Thu Oct 11, 2001, According to a confidential memo issued by Agent Patrick, the misquote was with regard to the songwriter credits he listed for Paradise. Although I claimed unintentional careless mishandling, my failure to successfully complete the mission as assigned should be dealt with severely by my superiors. To set the record straight, however, here is what Mick actually wrote: > 1. The Ronettes recorded "Paradise" in 1965 but it was > never released. > > 2. The Shangri-Las released a version of "Paradise" in > 1966: the songwriter credited was Harry Nilsson. > > 3. Gogi Grant released a version of the song in c.1969: > Harry Nilsson got the composer credit. > > 4. The Ronettes' version was eventually released in 1976; > the songwriters credited were Harry Nilsson and Phil > Spector. > > 5. In 1977 Bette Midler released a version of "Paradise": > Harry Nilsson, Perry Botkin & Gil Garfield were the > songwriters listed on the label. > > 6. The Ronettes' version is included on Phil Spector's > "Back To Mono" Box Set in 1991: the songwriters credited > were Harry Nilsson, Gil Garfield, Perry Botkin & Phil > Spector. > > 7. A search of the BMI database reveals 826(!) songs > titled "Paradise" including one credited to Harry Nilsson, > Gil Garfield & Perry Botkin (ASCAP lists 200+ other songs > of the same title!). In my post, I inadvertently added Spector's name to entries 5 and 7 above. Now, in view of the above and in the interest of accuracy, I must further retract the following statement I made in the previous post. I wrote: > In any event I believe the BMI listing is the right one. Because, as Mick pointed out, the BMI database lists the writers of Paradise as only Nilsson, Garfield and Botkin, I now believe the information in the BMI database is incorrect. The correct writers credits for Paradise are Harry Nilsson, Gil Garfield, Perry Botkin and Phil Spector. Phil's share of the song is of course published by Mother Bertha. The other three writers' interests in the song are all published by EMI Beechwood Music. I apologize to Agent Patrick for misquoting him and to all group members for inconvenience caused. I shall make better efforts to quote accurately in future. Do I get to keep my badge now? Best wishes to all, Jamie --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:13:45 +0000 From: "Spector Collector" Subject: publishing "Paradise" Paul Underwood asked which publisher was listed for "Paradise" on Bette Midler's version, and the answer is "Rock Music, a division of Beechwood Music." Paul had noted that publishing rights were shared by Mother Bertha and Beechwood by the time of the Spector box set, so at least Beechwood wasn't technically a new copyright holder at that point; it's just that prior to the Midler album, credit went solely to Rock Music, which by the time of the box set had apparently been completely usurped by Beechwood. David A. Young --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:25:24 +0000 From: "Spector Collector" Subject: Re: STRANGER IN PARADISE Hi, friends, Before we close the book on author credit for "Paradise," there's one more source I'd love to have someone check if possible, although with or without it, I tend to buy Jamie's BMI database theory. Years ago, I traded tapes with a Nilsson fan extraordinaire named Curtis Armstrong. He informed me that in the mid-'60s, Harry released, in publisher circles, a demo album of his songs, recorded by studio singers and musicians and distributed to generate interest among A&R types in having "names" record his songs, much along the same lines as the Jeff and Ellie "I Can Hear Music" comp of a few years ago, already discussed in depth here. He taped the version of "Paradise" from that album for me, and it's quite good; not a voice I recognize, and a bit more soulful turn than has typified others' versions of the song. In any case, does anyone on this list have a copy of that album, and if so, how do the credits there read? I'm hoping that, if anyone, Nilsson would have told the truth on his own release. And while you're digging through your collections, I'd be very interested in any other information on this rare LP: name; number; label, if any, etc. The acetate of "Stand By Him" to which Jamie referred (the early version of "Paradise" before Harry came on board) reveals that the song was already basically fully realized melodically, so whatever else we finally deduce, it seems safe to guess that his contributions were primarily lyrical. I hope somebody can help with this! David A. Young --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:16:28 -0700 From: Carol Kaye Subject: from Perry Botkin I asked Perry about this one on your recent list and here's what he says: >>>>>Here's what I know about "Paradise" The song was written by Harry Nilsson, Gil Garfield, and me. Harry took it to Phil. Phil played with it and gave it his personal touch. The song was originally published by Rock Music Co., a company that Gil and I owned. We had Harry under contract at the time. We sold the company to Beechwood in the early 60's. Phil's contribution to "Paradise" was enormous and, with all parties in agreement, he became a 4th writer and co-publisher of the song. Simple as that. Perry Botkin P.S. This is the first time I ever heard the song called "Stranger in Paradise". I always thought that title belonged to a different song.<<<<<< forwarded by Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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