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Spectropop - Digest Number 262

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There are 11 messages in this issue of Spectropop.

Topics in this Digest Number 262:

      1. Medley Interview
           From: Paul Urbahns 
      2. New poll for the Spectropop Group
           From: Spectropop Polls
      3. aural sects
           From: "Spector Collector" 
      4. Brill Building in "Vanity Fair"
           From: Robert Bates 
      5. is he watching us??
           From: Mark Landwehr 
      6. Re: THEN HE KISSED ME
           From: Ton Borsboom 
      7. RE: Spectropop
           From: "Country Paul" 
      8. Trouble in Paradise
           From: LePageWeb 
      9. publishing "Paradise"
           From: "Spector Collector" 
           From: "Spector Collector" 
     11. from Perry Botkin
           From: Carol Kaye 


Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:49:14 EDT
   From: Paul Urbahns 
Subject: Medley Interview

Rex wrote:

> I interviewed him in 1983 and Bill told me that
> he did indeed produce "Unchained Melody" and that he
> never wanted to produce the Philles albums but he did
> it by default. Spector told him that he would put
> everything into the singles but that he wouldn't have
> time to do the albums and that Medley could do them.

That's probably his viewpoint of the story I heard all
these years that Larry Levine suggested to Phil when
Lovin' Feeling was a hit that Phil do an album. Phil said
words to the effect I don't work like that, I do singles
and then collect them as an album. It was supposedly
Levine that mentioned to Phil to let Bill Medley do the
filler songs. Once thje Lovin' Feeling LP was such a big
seller Phil saw there was gold in them hills and started
issuing albums regularly on Righteous Brothers and Tina
Turner. But that was too late in the Philles story.

Of course he did do albums with filler early on. The
Crystals LPs are Phil's own defintion of an LP: 2 hits
and 10 pieces of junk.

Medley taking credit is trying to save face in a song he
does not sing.

Paul Urbahns

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 2
   Date: 12 Oct 2001 04:48:48 -0000
   From: Spectropop Polls
Subject: New poll for the Spectropop Group

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the 
Spectropop Group:

For nearly four decades, ever since Righteous Brothers'
Unchained Melody first became a hit, Phil Spector has
been listed as producer on all releases of the recording.
However, one of the Righteous Brothers, Bill Medley,
claims he actually produced the track and has never been
given due credit. 

What do Spectropop members think? 

  o It was Phil 
  o It was Bill 
  o Bill probably was involved but that doesn't warrant 
    producer credit 
  o Phil probably was involved but should have given 
    producer credit to Bill 

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are 
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups 
web site.


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:27:07 +0000
   From: "Spector Collector" 
Subject: aural sects

It's certainly been fascinating to see the troops lining
up on the two sides of the great Medley/Spector
"Unchained Melody" debate, and given the compelling
evidence produced in favor of each argument, it's also
been educational in expanding my ideas of what a producer
really does to earn that title. I, too, was ready to let
Bill's "Ghost"-era version of the song for Curb decide
for me that he couldn't have done the Philles one, but
Peter Richmond's convincingly presented case made me feel
a lot less sure. Thanks to all for the stimulating

One thing I love about this group is the respect we show
each other, even when disagreeing with or correcting each
other's posts.

Speaking of people listening to the same song and hearing
different things, why can't I detect Ronnie Spector's
voice on the Jimi Hendrix tune "Earth Blues"? The
Ronettes are the credited background vocalists on the
number, which originally appeared on his "Rainbow Bridge"
album and was this year issued, in an alternate version,
on the 8-LP/4-CD "Jimi Hendrix Experience" box set.
Ronnie talks about it in her book, and I can hear female
backgrounds, but as familiar as I am with her voice, I
can't pick it out on either version, even though others
have told me that they swear they do.

David A. Young

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 15:09:32 -0400
   From: Robert Bates 
Subject: Brill Building in "Vanity Fair"

This month's Vanity Fair -- the one with the rescuers
on it, but also the "Music Issue" -- has an oral
history of the Brill Building. Haven't read it yet, but
has quotes from Bachrach, Cynthia Weil, Shadow Morton,
etc. Enjoy!


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:17:31 -0400
   From: Mark Landwehr 
Subject: is he watching us??

> > if Phil Spector, Brian Wilson or any of the other music
> > makers discussed here subscribe to/read/know about
> > Spectropop.
Carol Kaye replied:

> Most of anyone who is of that vip hasn't the time usually,
> and even if they did, they don't know how to type well,
> if at all...
I heard a totally unsubstantiated rumor some time back
that Spector surfs the net & checks out stuff written
about him...Maybe someone sends him the Spectropop
postings!! Hey, Gary, what do you know about this?

Hi, Uncle Phil!!!! (just in case)


The REVISED Phil Spector Record Label Gallery @

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:09:36 -0000
   From: Ton Borsboom 

 Mick Patrick wrote:

> Original message:
> > If you were a woman I could kiss you!!
> > Thanks for giving me the information I was looking for.
> > Ton Borsboom
> Gasp! Is Ton the first to openly declare his sexual
> preference on Spectropop? If I'd have known there was a
> snog on offer I'd have thought about trying to identify
> that mystery artist myself.
> With or without tongues?

Hi Mick,

Sorry, but I can't help it that I prefer women. Maybe
it's because they taste so sweet...but to you I can say
this "Oh, Yeah, Maybe, Baby"...........for when I have
another question for the Spectropoppers and you can give
me the right answer. BTW no answer on the tongue question.

To all Spectropop members:

I already loved the oldies music 60's / 70's and
especially the Phil Spector part but by reading the
postings done by the members of Spectropop I became more
and more interested in oldies music I have never heard of
and I like the stories behind it all.

Thank you all and keep it going, I love this place!!

Ton Borsboom

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 7
   Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:17:06 -0400
   From: "Country Paul" 
Subject: RE: Spectropop

Thanks for posting this. As a newbie on this list, it is
a great reference, and has found its way into my
"favorites" category.

In my first posting, I commented: [I wonder] "if Phil
Spector, Brian Wilson or any of the other music makers
discussed here subscribe to/read/know about Spectropop."

Carol, thanks for your reply. I know they all must still
be busy, but as I said in my more detailed response on
your website, a well-placed authoritative comment or two
might keep a few of the "mind excursions" I've read a
little more on track. But I'm delighted at discovering
Spectropop - so many doors opening wider into some of my
favorite musical styles...

And I join with the previous writer in thanking you for
your excellent commentary on Brian Wilson, especially
coming after reading "The Nearest Faraway Place." The
"Pet Sounds" concert on 2000 was almost a religious
experience for me.

Country Paul

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 16:45:19 +0900
   From: LePageWeb 
Subject: Trouble in Paradise

Hi All,

Agent Patrick has discovered a misquote in my post titled
"Stranger In Paradise" dated Thu Oct 11, 2001, According
to a confidential memo issued by Agent Patrick, the
misquote was with regard to the songwriter credits he
listed for Paradise. Although I claimed unintentional
careless mishandling, my failure to successfully complete
the mission as assigned should be dealt with severely by
my superiors.

To set the record straight, however, here is what Mick
actually wrote:

> 1. The Ronettes recorded "Paradise" in 1965 but it was
> never released.
> 2. The Shangri-Las released a version of "Paradise" in
> 1966: the songwriter credited was Harry Nilsson.
> 3. Gogi Grant released a version of the song in c.1969:
> Harry Nilsson got the composer credit.
> 4. The Ronettes' version was eventually released in 1976;
> the songwriters credited were Harry Nilsson and Phil
> Spector.
> 5. In 1977 Bette Midler released a version of "Paradise":
> Harry Nilsson, Perry Botkin & Gil Garfield were the
> songwriters listed on the label.
> 6. The Ronettes' version is included on Phil Spector's
> "Back To Mono" Box Set in 1991: the songwriters credited
> were Harry Nilsson, Gil Garfield, Perry Botkin & Phil
> Spector.
> 7. A search of the BMI database reveals 826(!) songs
> titled "Paradise" including one credited to Harry Nilsson,
> Gil Garfield & Perry Botkin (ASCAP lists 200+ other songs
> of the same title!).

In my post, I inadvertently added Spector's name to
entries 5 and 7 above. 

Now, in view of the above and in the interest of accuracy,
I must further retract the following statement I made in
the previous post. I wrote:

> In any event I believe the BMI listing is the right one.

Because, as Mick pointed out, the BMI database lists the
writers of Paradise as only Nilsson, Garfield and Botkin,
I now believe the information in the BMI database is
incorrect. The correct writers credits for Paradise are
Harry Nilsson, Gil Garfield, Perry Botkin and Phil
Spector. Phil's share of the song is of course published
by Mother Bertha. The other three writers' interests in
the song are all published by EMI Beechwood Music.

I apologize to Agent Patrick for misquoting him and to
all group members for inconvenience caused. I shall make
better efforts to quote accurately in future.

Do I get to keep my badge now?

Best wishes to all,


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:13:45 +0000
   From: "Spector Collector" 
Subject: publishing "Paradise"

Paul Underwood asked which publisher was listed for
"Paradise" on Bette Midler's version, and the answer is
"Rock Music, a division of Beechwood Music." Paul had
noted that publishing rights were shared by Mother
Bertha and Beechwood by the time of the Spector box set,
so at least Beechwood wasn't technically a new copyright
holder at that point; it's just that prior to the Midler
album, credit went solely to Rock Music, which by the
time of the box set had apparently been completely
usurped by Beechwood.

David A. Young

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:25:24 +0000
   From: "Spector Collector" 

Hi, friends,

Before we close the book on author credit for "Paradise,"
there's one more source I'd love to have someone check
if possible, although with or without it, I tend to buy
Jamie's BMI database theory.

Years ago, I traded tapes with a Nilsson fan
extraordinaire named Curtis Armstrong. He informed me
that in the mid-'60s, Harry released, in publisher
circles, a demo album of his songs, recorded by studio
singers and musicians and distributed to generate
interest among A&R types in having "names" record his
songs, much along the same lines as the Jeff and Ellie
"I Can Hear Music" comp of a few years ago, already
discussed in depth here.

He taped the version of "Paradise" from that album for
me, and it's quite good; not a voice I recognize, and a
bit more soulful turn than has typified others'
versions of the song. In any case, does anyone on this
list have a copy of that album, and if so, how do the
credits there read? I'm hoping that, if anyone, Nilsson
would have told the truth on his own release. And while
you're digging through your collections, I'd be very
interested in any other information on this rare LP:
name; number; label, if any, etc.

The acetate of "Stand By Him" to which Jamie referred
(the early version of "Paradise" before Harry came on
board) reveals that the song was already basically
fully realized melodically, so whatever else we finally
deduce, it seems safe to guess that his contributions
were primarily lyrical. I hope somebody can help with

David A. Young

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 11
   Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:16:28 -0700
   From: Carol Kaye 
Subject: from Perry Botkin

I asked Perry about this one on your recent list and
here's what he says:

>>>>>Here's what I know about "Paradise"

The song was written by Harry Nilsson, Gil Garfield, and
me.  Harry took it to Phil.  Phil played with it and gave
it his personal touch.  The song was originally published
by Rock Music Co., a company that Gil and I owned.  We
had Harry under contract at the time.  We sold the
company to Beechwood in the early 60's. Phil's
contribution to "Paradise" was enormous and, with all
parties in agreement, he became a 4th writer and
co-publisher of the song.

Simple as that.

Perry Botkin

P.S.  This is the first time I ever heard the song
called "Stranger in Paradise".  I always thought that
title belonged to a different song.<<<<<<

forwarded by Carol Kaye

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

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