________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ There are 10 messages in this issue of Spectropop. Topics in this Digest Number 260: 1. Re: Club Medley From: Frank 2. Re: Listen To "See That Girl" From: "Don Charles" 3. STRANGER IN PARADISE From: Mick Patrick 4. New From: "Country Paul" 5. Stoned From: "Phil Chapman" 6. Re: Mojo Collections From: Andrew Hickey 7. Re: FANITA'S DREAMERS From: "Peter Lerner" 8. Do the Crawl From: LePageWeb 9. Re: Oldham sold 'em From: "Joseph Scott" 10. Medley vs Spector From: Rex Patton ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 01 14:07:14 +0200 From: Frank Subject: Re: Club Medley Well after all these posts about the "unending unchained saga", this is without doubt the best of them all. It asks the right questions and raises the right problems. Thanks a lot and congratulations Jamie. The only point where I could try to suggest an answer is this one: >5. If Medley produced the Phil Spector Productions >master, why is the Medley-produced Curb soundalike of >such lesser quality? Curb was not known for his generosity as far as record production is concerned and the difference in sound and result could partly be attributed to the fact that these Curb sessions were just rapidly made productions meant to take advantage of the renewal of interest in the Righteous recordings. Frank Jamie wrote: >1. Why did Spector suddenly give Medley a budget to use >the "good" musicians and a real string section? > >2. Spector put junk on B sides - Why didn't he use a >typical Mike Patterson filler track on the B? > >3. Spector liked to keep the B-side publishing - Why did >he use a cover on the B side this time? > >4. If it's a Medley production, why has the credit never >been corrected (typically incorrect credits are >corrected on subsequent pressings/releases)? > >5. If Medley produced the Phil Spector Productions >master, why is the Medley-produced Curb soundalike of >such lesser quality? > >6. Spector undoubtedly booked the studio and musicians, >approved the budget, paid the studio and local #47, >supervised the selection, mastering, pressing and >release on his own label. That's usually called record >production. And of course, the master is indisputably a >Phil Spector Productions master. What did Medley do >exactly? > >7. Finally, from this point forward Bill and Bobby were >at each other's throats, right? As you wrote in the >Philately #4 - Xmas '84 article, Spector produced all >the Hatfield sides and Medley did his own. If this >indeed was a Medley production - why Hatfield on lead? --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 17:02:29 +0000 From: "Don Charles" Subject: Re: Listen To "See That Girl" To my ears, "See That Girl" has always sounded like a Phil Spector production, though it's been credited to Bill Medley for many years. Don Charles Monophonius wrote: > If Phil had really done "See That Girl" [it] would > have been done with a stronger downbeat, not laid back. > It might have sounded like "Walking in the Rain" > without the thunder, if you could imagine that. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:20:51 +0100 (BST) From: Mick Patrick Subject: STRANGER IN PARADISE Greetings, Phil Chapman wrote: > ...I still > support the contentious theory that the release of the > truly magnificent "Paradise" was withheld because of a > dispute with Harry Nilsson over writing credits/split. I > once took the opportunity to ask HN at a recording > session, but he wouldn't be drawn - which wasn't a > denial! I'll be careful exactly what I say here. I know that Phil Spector does not take kindly to any accusations that he stole songwriter credits. However, there is a question that need answering. I'll just stick with a few facts: 1. The Ronettes recorded "Paradise" in 1965 but it was never released. 2. The Shangri-Las released a version of "Paradise" in 1966: the songwriter credited was Harry Nilsson. 3. Gogi Grant released a version of the song in c.1969: Harry Nilsson got the composer credit. 4. The Ronettes' version was eventually released in 1976; the songwriters credited were Harry Nilsson and Phil Spector. 5. In 1977 Bette Midler released a version of "Paradise": Harry Nilsson, Perry Botkin & Gil Garfield were the songwriters listed on the label. 6. The Ronettes' version is included on Phil Spector's "Back To Mono" Box Set in 1991: the songwriters credited were Harry Nilsson, Gil Garfield, Perry Botkin & Phil Spector. 7. A search of the BMI database reveals 826(!) songs titled "Paradise" including one credited to Harry Nilsson, Gil Garfield & Perry Botkin (ASCAP lists 200+ other songs of the same title!). I have more to say on this subject but for the moment will be content to pose the question 'who wrote "Paradise"?'. MICK PATRICK --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 11:16:46 -0400 From: "Country Paul" Subject: New Hi, New to this group; played a lot of this material ont he radio when it was new - hope to have some fun here. Looking for clean copies of Cheer Leaders, "That's The Way With Love" on Encore (I think)(gorgeous girl group ballad) and Bobby James [actually Jim West of the Innocents], "5000 Tears Ago" on Indigo. Also, I heard (and crave to have) a beautiful song by Priscilla Paris on Spectropop Radio - forget the name, but it was midtempo 4/4 (instead of the usual Paris sisters slow 6/8) and had the Spector sound although it was on York 4004 (ah, the trivia one accumulates - why couldn't I remember the name?!?). Does anyone know if they are on CD? I've got the 45's of the first two but they have met one too many worn styli over the years. I'm signing on with a daily digest, so response may not be instant. Thanks, Country Paul P.S. Considering what a shrine this site is to them, I wonder if Phil Spector, Brian Wilson or any of the other music makers discussed here subscribe to/read/know about Spectropop. (What a trip it would be to get first-person reportage, especially while these folks are still alive and well.) --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 17:02:49 +0100 From: "Phil Chapman" Subject: Stoned > "My world is empty without..." > "I see a red door and I..." > LOL!!! Good one, Phil! I kid you not, Jamie! I got this straight from the horses' mouth, so to speak, when I was making tea....er, assistant engineer, on a Stones session. It was also revealed that the guitar riff on "Satisfaction" was 'influenced' by the opening brass figure of "Nowhere To Run"
. However, all parties at the time were under the influence of much more than just girlgroup classics:-) --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 11:46:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Hickey Subject: Re: Mojo Collections > Mick, > Any idea how I could get my hands on a copy ? I'm in > Paris, France. In the magazine it gives details of where to contact for subscriptions and back issues - I assume you should try there: UK Subscription hotline 01858 438 806 Outside the UK (+44)1858 438 806 --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:18:12 +0100 From: "Peter Lerner" Subject: Re: FANITA'S DREAMERS "Mick Patrick" wrote: > I'm hoping someone out there in Spectropopland can help > me on an urgent search for DREAMERS material. > > The Dreamers, sometimes billed as Richard Berry & the > Dreamers, released singles on the Flair, RPM and Flip > labels. Fanita & her girls also recorded for Class as > the Rollettes. Are these the same Dreamers who did a nice version of Jackie DeShannon and Sharon Sheeley's much covered "Daydreamin' of you", coupled with "The Promise", on Fairmount 612? Peter --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:43:28 +0900 From: LePageWeb Subject: Do the Crawl Andrew Hickey asks: > Bob Stanley says Bill Medley sings 'I would crawl for > you girl/I would crawl, every day' in Just Once in My > Life. I've always heard this as 'I'd work hard for you > girl'. Which of us is deaf? This MUST be a put on. "I can't give you the world, But I I'll work hard for you, girl. I'll work hard, ev'ryday, all my life. " Jamie "'SCUSE ME WHILE I KISS THE SKY" LePage --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:37:24 -0600 From: "Joseph Scott" Subject: Re: Oldham sold 'em Hi all, My understanding is that Oldham's talents as a producer were quite limited, which is not to say that they were nonexistent. He was officially "in charge" of "production" simply because as the Stones' (brilliant) manager he got them to agree (for a while there) that he would be their "producer" as well. The impression I've got over the years is that in retrospect, people involved, such as members of the Stones, don't think he was really all that qualified to so-called produce and it showed, and imo this matches up with the fact that before around "Satisfaction," before around the time the Stones started working with people such as Hassinger, their records don't sound well produced imo, and don't have a consistent sound. In contrast, Jimmy Miller brought a particular creative producer's vision to the Stones' sound (a vision that you can hear clearly on Miller's Traffic stuff, before Miller even worked with the Stones!). I'd say that as he sits in one of his mansions, Jagger has a lot to thank Oldham for as a _P.R._ genius, a lot to thank Hassinger for as an engineer full of creative ideas who could de facto produce as much as you needed, right when the Stones were trying to break through in the very competitive _U.S._ pop charts in the mid-'60s (for which a quality L.A.-like sound was quite important), a lot to thank Miller for for getting the Stones' recordings back on track (right when they really could have lost the public's interest), resulting in their achieving acceptance as an institution, and a lot to thank Richards for for his composing talent. Anyhow, the point I was trying to make in the previous post is just that an Oldham "production" credit of the "Paint It Black" era reflects the standing arrangement he had with the Stones and doesn't necessarily at all preclude production-type involvement by a friendly talented guest such as Sloan. Just in general, it's always a good idea to approach official production credits with some healthy skepticism -- e.g. even George Martin, widely regarded as one of the most honest and straightforward guys in the business, has very occasionally wound up with his name appearing as producer of tracks he wasn't even in the studio for, and as you get into all the less scrupulous industry people it just goes downhill from there. I'm not sure I understood the point about Oldham's book -- Oldham claims that marketing is what matters, not the music, is that right? I think that's pretty valid in the specific case of his achieving #1 _U.K._ pop hits for the Stones, _pre_-"Satisfaction," despite the fact that their early work was awfully undistinguishable in quality and style from many other U.K. R&B/rock bands of the era and not very "pop" in style at that time. Oldham deserves the credit for that very remarkable early marketing success, without which the Stones train wouldn't have got moving, without which Jagger would be about as well known today as Phil May or Sean Bonniwell. Generally speaking though, I think it's obviously a mixture of marketing and musical quality that sells records -- e.g. "Jumping Jack Flash" and "Miss You" are great records _and_ were thoroughly hyped. Joseph Scott --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:25:59 -0400 From: Rex Patton Subject: Medley vs Spector To Jamie who wondered if anyone had seen Bill Medley address this situation in an interview. For what it's worth, I interviewed him in 1983 and Bill told me that he did indeed produce "Unchained Melody" and that he never wanted to produce the Philles albums but he did it by default. Spector told him that he would put everything into the singles but that he wouldn't have time to do the albums and that Medley could do them. Bill told me he considered Spector to be the greatest producer of all time and that he never felt competitive with him. He said he was just getting the job done because somebody had to do it and since he produced all the Moonglow albums, it might as well have been him. In regards to Mike Patterson, his band is backing the Righteous Brothers on their live album and they're excellent - they actually rock. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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