http://www.spectropop.com ________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ There are 18 messages in this issue of Spectropop. Topics in this Digest Number 259: 1. poor old Bob Crewe From: "Phil Chapman" 2. THEN HE KISSED ME From: Mick Patrick 3. "EXPERTS", BEAT BABIES V. SWING CHIRPS & BRIAN WILSON ON PHIL SPECTOR From: Mick Patrick 4. RE: Unending Unchained From: Frank 5. RE: ListenTo Unchained From: "Keith Beach" 6. Re: P.S. From: Carol Kaye 7. Club Medley From: LePageWeb 8. Unhinged Malady From: "Phil Chapman" 9. Re: Various From: Carol Kaye 10. Oldham told 'em From: "Phil Chapman" 11. Josie & the Pussycats From: Will George 12. Re: Josie & the Pussycats From: "Don Charles" 13. RE: Oldham told 'em From: "Keith Beach" 14. Mojo Workin' From: Andrew Hickey 15. Re: Mojo Collections From: Frank 16. Re: Oldham told 'em From: Mike W 17. Re: Oldham told 'em From: LePageWeb 18. FANITA'S DREAMERS From: Mick Patrick ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 16:00:27 +0100 From: "Phil Chapman" Subject: poor old Bob Crewe > but now that Mr. Crewe has quoted $150,000 for his > name and likeness rights...why destroy the stock? Why > not just replace the front sleeve? "Mick and Malcolm > present The Dynovoice Story - Devil with a Blue Dress > On" or something like that. But isn't that MICK's likeness on the Dynosaur Story? - It must be galling for Bob Crewe to be continually mistaken for undercover agent Patrick. Apparently, it's easily done. Last time I saw him, he didn't look as if he was coming up for 70 next month - but I suppose he must have at some time. In the sprit of concern for the elderly, perhaps the stock could be turned over to Spectropop, and all 500 members could each donate $300 to the Bob Crewe Maturity Fund. Would that appease the Gods, d'y think? --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 09:31:42 +0100 (BST) From: Mick Patrick Subject: THEN HE KISSED ME Greetings, Original message: > If you were a woman I could kiss you!! > Thanks for giving me the information I was looking for. > Ton Borsboom Gasp! Is Ton the first to openly declare his sexual preference on Spectropop? If I'd have known there was a snog on offer I'd have thought about trying to identify that mystery artist myself. With or without tongues? MICK PATRICK --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 10:29:25 +0100 (BST) From: Mick Patrick Subject: "EXPERTS", BEAT BABIES V. SWING CHIRPS & BRIAN WILSON ON PHIL SPECTOR Greetings, The autumn issue of Mojo Collections magazine contains an interview with Brian Wilson talking about his musical influences - the Four Freshmen, Rosemary Clooney, the Bee Gees, Little Richard, Pilot (!). Here's what the mad genius has to say about Phil Spector: "...Phil Spector...was probably the biggest influence of all. 'Be My Baby', which has one of the most straight ahead rhythms I've ever heard in my life, had a feeling about it that made me want to create something good. That's where I learned how to produce records. Anybody with a good ear can hear that I was influenced by Spector. I would listen to his records and pick up ideas. I'd try to work out how much echo he was using on particular instruments, and how he achieved that particular sound. My song 'Please Let Me Wonder' came from listening to 'Walking In The Rain'. I was lucky to be able to meet him several times. I found him very easy to talk to. We worked together in 1965 on a song called 'Don't Hurt My Little Sister'. He cut a track for it and he asked me to come down to Gold Star Studio and watch him produce it. So I got my ass down there and he did produce it, but he never finished it. So that never appeared". This magazine also contains a good looking 5 page Bob Stanley article about Phil Spector 45s. So if you're the kind of person who has to have everything ever written about Phil Spector, you need this issue of Mojo Collections. Talking of Bob Stanley, I just got myself a copy of his new REFLECTIONS: DREAM BABES #2 compilation on RPM. The sleevenotes state that the "vocal harmonies (of the Three Bells) recall those of an earlier era". Hhhmmm, strikes me that those Bell gals are not the only culprits. That's the trouble with a lot of Brit Girls. Too many of them sound like trilling Kathy Kirby/Susan Maughan-style throwbacks to the band singer days. Is that a bad thing? In this context, probably yes. Even Elkie Brooks sounds like Doris Day (albeit on 40 a day). No wonder she finds her early discs an embarassment. Some of these poppets make Pet Clark sound like Aretha Franklin! Oh, for a track by bonny Tawney Reed, wee Lulu or the Breakaways! Still, one mustn't blame the compiler for the fact that those beat babies were on another label. It's not that I have anything against band singers (known as 'swing chirps' in the trade, my mum tells me) of the 1940s and 1950s. In fact, some of you may be aware that my mother was a swing chirp herself. However, good vocalists CAN be found on this set. Samantha Jones, for example, was a fabulous singer, as was Helen Shapiro. And lovely Linda Laine comes across like a limey Peggy Santiglia. The two tracks by Jean & the Statesides also stand out. Over all I find the track selection rather idiosyncratic. Is that a bad thing? No, not really. Jackie DeShannon fans will enjoy the versions of "You Won't Forget Me" and "Splendour In The Grass". Design (by Neil Dell) and sleevenotes (by Keiron Tyler) are top class but I'm sure "Putty In Your Hands" sounds better on my old Jean & the Statesides 45 than it does here. Moving on...How good it is to have a specific question like "Who is Mike Patterson?" answered by Peter Richmond, a man who really knows his subject. Thanks for letting us know that Mike Patterson wasn't a made-up name, Peter. MICK PATRICK --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 01 08:15:13 +0200 From: Frank Subject: RE: Unending Unchained > To those who say that UM "SOUNDS" like Spector (and > that's the whole basis for their belief), I say, "So > what if it does?"...Alder Ray's single "'Cuz I Love > Him"/"A Little Love Will Go a Long Way" (to name just > one example out of many) SOUNDS like a Spector job, > too...But it ain't. And who would say that the Leonard Cohen tracks sound like a Spector job???? Frank --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 11:38:24 +0100 From: "Keith Beach" Subject: RE: ListenTo Unchained The two cents worth on "Unchained Melody" from Monophonius was almost exactly what I was going to add to this thread. To my aged ears the rhythm track sounds too 'thin'/'tinny' for a Spector production of that time. Compare it to 'Hung on you' rhythm track. The rest of the production has Spectorian pretensions...which probably means Nitzchean involvement (?). Philles would have paid for this session, as Righteous Brothers were his major act at the time, but to Phil's ear it probably seemed like an inferior production and song, so why not use it to back up another 'masterpiece' of his own? Where's the harm? He knew his audience and was infallible...wasn't he? So why did DJ's flip the single for airplay? Well, I listened to "Hung on you" many times again last night - what else is there to do on a wet October Saturday night? - and much as I love the 'sound' he achieved it does seem an overblown production on a rather dreary song - it seems much better on the original Carole King acetate (before Spector 'rewrote' parts). The Spector backing track has wonderfully complicated musical things going on, but overall it must have sounded a mess on the radio compared to the clear precision of "You've lost that lovin' feelin'"...and I think "Unchained Melody" has a similar clear precision about its 'sound' and vocal. DJs and the record-buying public must have been a little tired of yet another soundalike, and I'm sure Bill Medley and Phil Spector never dreamed in a million years that the track would be a hit in its own right. The fact is that "You've" and "Unchained" have 'staying' power, and most of their other output has faded from the public memory. A major part of the Righteous Brothers appeal was that they were a 'Boy Band' of the time, relatively good to listen to, but gorgeous to look at. And, like the Walker Brothers, et al, without the right people and song behind them they just got left behind as music moved on. Aging Keith Beach --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 17:01:30 -0700 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: P.S. I know a fellow by the name of Tom Campbell who was the bass player for the Righteous Bros. on the road and am waiting for news from him about those days in the 60s traveling and playing. He's a good bass player and a personal friend of mine...we met 3 years ago when I was playing a jazz gig at Papashons in Encino, and has taken a jazz improv lesson with me, getting back into bass again. He's been a vip railroad exec in Texas for many years but is now playing again. So will pass on any info I get from him. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 17:56:23 +0900 From: LePageWeb Subject: Club Medley "Peter Richmond" wrote: >Paul Urbahns wrote > > >Who was (is?) Mike Patterson. > > Mike Patterson was on old school friend of Bill Medley's, > his band the Rhythm Rockers. Welcome, Peter! Wonderful to have you here. I had always assumed Patterson was a kind of local surf/r&b type of road musician. Thanks for confirming. > I do find it hard to believe that at Philles Records... > the owner himself would not be credited as producer > of "Unchained Melody" until after it became obvious > that it was receiving more airplay than the main side, > "Hung On You". Yes. Indeed, this is where the thread started. All seem to agree this is inconsistent with Spector's practice. But the contention asks a lot more than it answers - perhaps you can help clarify? 1. Why did Spector suddenly give Medley a budget to use the "good" musicians and a real string section? 2. Spector put junk on B sides - Why didn't he use a typical Mike Patterson filler track on the B? 3. Spector liked to keep the B-side publishing - Why did he use a cover on the B side this time? 4. If it's a Medley production, why has the credit never been corrected (typically incorrect credits are corrected on subsequent pressings/releases)? 5. If Medley produced the Phil Spector Productions master, why is the Medley-produced Curb soundalike of such lesser quality? 6. Spector undoubtedly booked the studio and musicians, approved the budget, paid the studio and local #47, supervised the selection, mastering, pressing and release on his own label. That's usually called record production. And of course, the master is indisputably a Phil Spector Productions master. What did Medley do exactly? 7. Finally, from this point forward Bill and Bobby were at each other's throats, right? As you wrote in the Philately #4 - Xmas '84 article, Spector produced all the Hatfield sides and Medley did his own. If this indeed was a Medley production - why Hatfield on lead? The lack of producer credit on the initial pressing is significant, as is the atypically sparse sound of the rhythm track. No one seems to disagree with these points. But given those two pieces of evidence, the contention that Medley produced the side asks a heck of a lot more than it answers. You, if anyone, should be able to offer expert opinion on these seven points, Any further light you can shed will be most appreciated. Let me take this opportunity to say how much I enjoy your fabulous Righteous Brothers website. Best wishes always, Jamie --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 16:00:24 +0100 From: "Phil Chapman" Subject: Unhinged Malady I suggest we hold a 'Was it Bill or Phil' member poll. One thing Phil paid great attention to was public image. I find it perfectly feasible he would want to take the credit for something that was accidentally successful on his own label, however unintended. I don't think the initial omission of producer credit was an oversight, Phil took great care in this department as well. I still support the contentious theory that the release of the truly magnificent "Paradise" was withheld because of a dispute with Harry Nilsson over writing credits/split. I once took the opportunity to ask HN at a recording session, but he wouldn't be drawn - which wasn't a denial! --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 17:01:48 -0700 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: Various > BTW, Carol, MANY YEARS seperate the Righteous Brothers' > Philles version and their VILE recut. It's impossible to > confuse the two versions. That was exactly Don Randi's point when our Musicians' Union first started to say it "wasn't us" on the popular one used in "Ghost"...he was able to quickly convince them it "was us" and the one we cut in the 60s. I personally don't remember details on that date like I do "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin", probably because the tune didn't move me that much etc. like YLTLF did. To Mick, just a quick thank-you for your comments...I haven't seen the book yet, good to hear it's out etc. > drugs offer an easy and certainly undeniable partial > explanation....but my impression is that there was > something else which engendered in brian this wholesale > transformation from a vital, bright, and well-spoken man > into , well......something much different than that. Peter, first of all, thank-you for your nice words. About Brian Wilson, and many of us have been quoted on many film documentaries and radio shows (but very little of what we said was finally used on the films and radio shows etc.)....and so I know what others have said too, this is pretty much what I'll say here. We noticed no change in Brian all the time we recorded for him in the studios....he was always lucid, commanded a great production always, and good to work for (he knew what he was doing as you can tell on those talk-back tapes, that was Brian), and full of subtle humor and like you say, totally in command, and toward the latter years was more whimsical, i.e. bringing fire-hats to the date (only Lyle Ritz and think one other wore the fire-hat along with Brian as we did the sawing, the riveting, the hammering for the "fire session" etc. at Gold Star)....he was happy that his productions were selling records, Brian never mentioned the Beatles as competition but a few times in passing, in admiration it seemed to me. The things presented in the 2-part movie about the BB's, especially the 2nd part, pertaining to me, that never happened and I was appalled at the stupidness of that 2nd part totally.....was a total opposite of how Brian really was, almost laughable but very slanderous - Brian was NOT like that at all in his personality.......I never saw gold records "given away", nor don't remember any fight between him and his dad who yes, once in awhile did drop by, but only for an instant and think that was 1-2x in all the dates I did..... if some fight developed, it must have been quick and out the door as I didn't see that at all (but did hear on a tape, the vocal-overdub thing where Murry was drunk and railing against Brian....on Help Me Rhonda....that was horrible, I had to put up with a weirdo-dad like that too in my youth and one of my husbands who I quickly divorced) -- that didn't happen on any of our tracking dates which were always great with Brian....sometimes boring, yes, doing 1 song in 3 hours (as opposed to recording 3-4-5 songs in 3 hours with others) but we admired Brian, knew he was after something big and we loved working for him. I worked for Murry on the Sun-Rays things too and he was always a pretty sharp nice guy, but of course we weren't his kids..... What happened to Brian? I don't really have the details on that. But from what I have known and understood by now, is that probably success was too fast (he was very young as the rest of the BB's were too), too many inside pressures, his unresolved issues with his father maybe, and certainly drugs hide all those things and make it all worse..... I don't know much about his personal life...he and Marilyn would visit me (3x at my house in the 60s) and we'd chat, Marilyn and I would, while Brian loved to sit in my Niagra back-roller chair....he did complain a little of back/neck problems and his ear sometimes.....he loved relaxing while we talked. He was the same outside the studio to me. But....I stopped working for him and all the other current pop groups in 1969, did my publishing co. bit and had heard about his drug use which I was totally against - I even stopped working for Frank Zappa because of his porno lyrics, I had kids and didn't want to be on anything with those kinds of words on the music altho' I admired Frank too.....he understood...yes I was and still am anti-drug etc. And I'm sorry I lost touch with Brian, I always loved to work for him, and respected him greatly and when I went back to work in 1970 (after my 8-month hiatus), I turned down working for all the rock groups, and inc. Motown, and only took what seemed more like Ray Charles, Mancini, those types of dates, and concentrated more on the TV and movie scores. And so lost touch with Brian unfortunately but kept hearing all kinds of stuff about him I just couldn't believe (by 1979 I was in Colorado and semi-retired as I was suffering from TMJ and arthritic problems). When I saw Brian get angry on the TV news (80s), think it was when Mike Love was suing him, I knew that what people were saying was wrong....he was just evidently going through a bad time in his life, he was the same Brian I admired and knew. I wrote him but never heard back......but eventually had my 2nd TMJ surgery which put me back in action, and started playing again, had moved back to Calif. and worked for Brian, met Melinda who I quickly admired and it was great to work for Brian again 1997.....we kidded and while you could tell he'd been through a lot of bad stuff, he was the same to me, just older and have had dinner with him and Melinda a few times, seen him quite a few times since then. You have to understand, composers are a different breed of people -- Brian has been described as "child-like"....hells bells....I don't know of a single great composer who isn't "child-like".....they think differently that's all. Brian still has his "put-on" humor intact (probably drove the newspeople nuts if he didn't like them and he'd tell them anything to get rid of them haha, which no, he doesn't do that that much anymore). Does he still have problems? Well, probably but he's a great guy, just older, and wiser (not being "used" like he once was which also destroys your soul btw, it's a very depressive thing to be "used" by people, and to see your family die like Brian did....) and doing great for all he's accomplished lately, it's tough being on the road, traveling, tiring I'll tell you. And he's not a "great entertainer" no, he doesn't have to be, producers rarely are entertainers....and he's got a good life now, so that part is good. About his speech, probably an aftermath of taking all those drugs, prescription drugs were the worst probably....and of course his life dramatically changed in the 70s, and instead of getting some real good counseling help early-on, he languished....(even Chuck Britz would try to help Brian - he cared for him so much) and think the rest of us were busy in our own lives (I know I was, still raising my kids, doing seminars, dealing my own book publishing co. "Gwyn Publishing", and even going on the road playing with the great jazz pianist, Hampton Hawes, etc.) that we all sort of lost touch with Brian....he needed help and I feel that he didn't get proper help, but didn't know that at that time, this is upon reflection....we're all in his corner for sure. Brian Wilson, like Phil Spector, has a fascinating life....his unschooled talent was remarkable and he accomplished so much in a short time (and even later), it's a miracle he's still with us and doing well. He still has to take medicines to counter what was done to him in the past from what I understand, and I think this influences him to some degree, plus the damages to his ear when he was a child (and why his speech must slur sometimes)....he was perfectly the same guy with me when I've been around him....full of fun, and we've had conversations lasting for 2 hours about different things.... He's OK believe me, maybe not how others would like him to be, but he's the same Brian to me, just older and been through the mill there, without people he could count on, that's a tough thing, but he knows he has good friends now, and they count with him and Melinda, she's a good person, good for Brian, and very helpful to him, and no, it's still Brian's decisions to do this or that, they make a good family with their 2 little girls. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 17:57:37 +0100 From: "Phil Chapman" Subject: Oldham told 'em Joseph: >......I don't think anyone >takes any of Stones manager Oldham's "production" >credits very seriously.... Why not? - He was in charge, and, in his own words, "..allowed it to happen". In much the same way that Phil 'produced' "Unchained Melody" and "Home Of The Brave". Certainly it was ALO who played The Supremes' "My World Is Empty Without You" to Mick & Keith in order to 'influence' the writing of their next hit "Paint It Black". --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 11 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 23:18:16 EDT From: Will George Subject: Josie & the Pussycats In a message dated 10/7/01 6:37:13 PM, spectropop writes: > STOP, LOOK AND LISTEN, the new Josie and The Pussycats > compilation just released by Rhino Handmade Records in > the US. How does this collection compare/differ from the collection released on CD a while back? - Will --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 17:09:08 +0000 From: "Don Charles" Subject: Re: Josie & the Pussycats In a message dated 10/7/01 6:37:13 PM, spectropop writes: >How does this collection compare/differ from the >collection released on CD a while back? That earlier CD was probably a bootleg. This one is legit. What's more, the packaging on this release is far more elaborate . . . there are numerous alternate takes of album and single tracks . . . there are three previously unreleased songs from the TV show featuring Cheryl Ladd on lead vocals . . . and this release excludes the theme song from "Josie and The Pussycats in Outer Space" because it was actually NOT sung by the group! By 1971, they had broken up. The music for the second series was done by session singers with Jimmie Haskell producing. Don Charles --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:27:30 +0100 From: "Keith Beach" Subject: RE: Oldham told 'em I have to report that neither Mick Patrick or myself had any involvement with Andrew Loog Oldham and 'Paint it Black'...we were at Nursery School! Keith Beach PS I know I was 'aged' in my last posting, clever dicks! > "Certainly it was ALO who played The Supremes' "My World > Is Empty Without You" to Mick & Keith in order to > 'influence' the writing of their next hit "Paint It > Black"." --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 13:45:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Hickey Subject: Mojo Workin' > This magazine also contains a good looking 5 page Bob > Stanley article about Phil Spector 45s. So if you're > the kind of person who has to have everything ever > written about Phil Spector, you need this issue of > Mojo Collections. The article isn't strictly about Spector - it also covers Spector soundalike tracks - like I Wonder by The Butterflys just as the first example I see on the page. The article's a top 50 Wall Of Sound singles thing. The entire issue of MOJO Collections is excellent, and also contains a (not very good) free CD (not much of interest to list members on the CD). Definitely worth buying. One thing, in the article, Bob Stanley says Bill Medley sings 'I would crawl for you girl/I would crawl, every day' in Just Once in My Life. I've always heard this as 'I'd work hard for you girl'. Which of us is deaf? --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 15 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 01 14:07:13 +0200 From: Frank Subject: Re: Mojo Collections >This magazine also contains a good looking 5 page Bob >Stanley article about Phil Spector 45s. So if you're the >kind of person who has to have everything ever written >about Phil Spector, you need this issue of Mojo >Collections. Mick, Any idea how I could get my hands on a copy ? I'm in Paris, France. Thanks Frank --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 16 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:59:35 -0000 From: Mike W Subject: Re: Oldham told 'em Dear Phil, Oldham's influence in the overall British Invasion music ouvre, is very much underestimated...just as Phil Spector's is, here in the United States. I feel this is mainly due to their "eccentric behavior" and large ego's...it's held against them, and therefore no one believes anything they say or do...and they are just not well liked by the music media. I don't know if you've read Oldham's autobiography yet, but if you haven't, you are missing one of the best books on rock music that has been written. It's a great "insider" story, that shatters the myth that there it's the music that's important, NOT the packaging that we surrender to, when we popularize a particular music "Artist". It's a controversial theory...but Oldham convinces the reader of it. "Phil Chapman" wrote: > >......I don't think anyone > >takes any of Stones manager Oldham's "production" > >credits very seriously.... > > Why not? - He was in charge, and, in his own words, > "..allowed it to happen". In much the same way that > Phil 'produced' "Unchained Melody" and "Home Of The > Brave". > > Certainly it was ALO who played The Supremes' "My World > Is Empty Without You" to Mick & Keith in order to > 'influence' the writing of their next hit "Paint It > Black". --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 17 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:22:19 +0900 From: LePageWeb Subject: Re: Oldham told 'em "Phil Chapman" wrote > Certainly it was ALO who played The Supremes' "My World > Is Empty Without You" to Mick & Keith in order to > 'influence' the writing of their next hit "Paint It > Black". "My world is empty without..." "I see a red door and I..." LOL!!! Good one, Phil! Jamie "What the heck is 'zoom bass' anyway?" LePage --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 18 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:43:20 +0100 (BST) From: Mick Patrick Subject: FANITA'S DREAMERS Greetings, I'm hoping someone out there in Spectropopland can help me on an urgent search for DREAMERS material. My pals at Ace Records are readying for release a CD by that group. What they've asked me for are some label scans of Dreamers 45s. Easier said than done! Can anyone help? The Dreamers, sometimes billed as Richard Berry & the Dreamers, released singles on the Flair, RPM and Flip labels. Fanita & her girls also recorded for Class as the Rollettes. (If you've read John Clemente's book you'll know all this already). Thanks in advance. MICK PATRICK PS: A newly-released CD arrived in the mail this morning containing a rare Jeff Barry/Artie Resnick composition I had not heard previously - "THE PALM OF YOUR HAND" by Chuck Wright originally released on Ember 1091 in 1963. JB produced it too. What's the chance of me ever owning the original 45? Now it's possible to just stroll into a shop and buy it. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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