http://www.spectropop.com ________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ There are 10 messages in this issue of Spectropop. Topics in this Digest Number 258: 1. Kathleen, Cheryl and Patrice From: "Don Charles" 2. RE: Unending Unchained From: Mark Landwehr 3. ListenTo Unchained From: Monophonius 4. CAROL KAYE, MOTOWN & THE RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS From: Mick Patrick 5. Re: Made up names From: Carol Kaye 6. Spector or Medley From: "Peter Richmond" 7. to: carol kaye From: PjB 8. scary songs for halloween From: Keith Moore 9. Re: Sloan's on Stones From: "Joseph Scott" 10. Crewe's in for cash From: LePageWeb ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 17:52:17 +0000 From: "Don Charles" Subject: Kathleen, Cheryl and Patrice If you're one of many girl group enthusiasts who thinks you don't need any late '60s cartoon/bubblegum music albums in your collection . . . think again! You need STOP, LOOK AND LISTEN, the new Josie and The Pussycats compilation just released by Rhino Handmade Records in the US. Although originally a comic strip, Josie and The Pussycats was a real live group for about a year's duration, and a young, not-yet-famous Cheryl Ladd was lead singer on several of the tracks. The other lead singer was the incredible Patrice Holloway, whose solo records I understand they have an avid cult following in England. Opera singer Kathleen Dougherty was the third member of the trio. If The Ronettes and Shangri-Las revolutionized the sound of girlpop in the '60s (and they did), then I submit that groups like Honey Cone and Josie and The Pussycats set the stage for the girl group sound of the '70s, which was soon to evolve into disco: Gospel leads and harmonies, Gamble and Huff-style orchestration, synthesizers, and a relentless rhythm track, often with Latin flavorings. Think Honey Cone was the female version of Motown's Jackson Five? Wait 'til your ears behold Patrice Holloway throwing down "You've Come A Long Way, Baby" (in four different mixes on the CD). Think "Be My Baby" was the most sublime girlpop record ever waxed? Well, you'll still think so after hearing Cheryl Ladd rock out with "The Time To Love Is Here," but you'll be mighty impressed all the same. And I'm willing to bet that infectious tracks like "Roadrunner," "Voodoo" and "It's All Right With Me" will end up ranking among your all-time favorite girl group recordings. No doubt! Please don't let prejudice against so-called bubblegum music cause you to miss out on this excellent music. You've never heard the like of Josie and The Pussycats, produced by Danny Janssen, Sue Sheridan and Bobby Young, arranged by Al Capps and Jimmie Haskell, and featuring Clarence MacDonald, Wilton Felder, Hal Blaine and dozens more of Hollywood's finest rock and R & B session players. You can order the CD at Rhino Handmade's website (www.rhinohandmade.com). Look out, too, for my definitive Josie and The Pussycats profile, scheduled for publication in Discoveries Magazine next year. Don Charles --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 16:02:00 -0400 From: Mark Landwehr Subject: RE: Unending Unchained > "Carol Kaye" wrote: > > > To tell you the truth, I don't remember, but always > > assumed he was - he was always at his own dates...there > > wouldn't be a recording date without him....it was > > always under our impressions (speaking for Don Randi, > > etc. here) that Phil did produce that. > Mike Arcidiacono wrote: > Folks, Larry Levine says that Phil WASNT there...because > he engineered that session. He says that Bill Medly did > indeed produce UM. > Well, that's a different story than what Mark Ribowsky told me, but I didn't believe him at that time (and still don't)...Let's see, Larry Levine was there and says 'no Phil'...Carol Kaye was there and says she ASSUMED Phil was there but is not positive & that Medley was very capable of replicating, to some extent, a "Spector Sound"...Now, there are people who, after hearing "testimony" from those that were THERE, are still not gonna believe it even MIGHT have been a Medley production!!! Unbelievable!!! Maybe someone should ask Phil...HA!! Now there's a pretty crazy idea!!! To those who say that UM "SOUNDS" like Spector (and that's the whole basis for their belief), I say, "So what if it does?"...Alder Ray's single "'Cuz I Love Him"/"A Little Love Will Go a Long Way" (to name just one example out of many) SOUNDS like a Spector job, too...But it ain't. Mark The Phil Spector Record Label Gallery @ http://home.tbbs.net/~msland/Spector --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 03:13:59 -0000 From: Monophonius Subject: ListenTo Unchained My two cents on the Spector vs. Medley "Unchained" debate. "Unchained Melody" and "See That Girl" seem to be the two tracks that cause the most confusion. I believe Medley cut both of these because they lack the drum/percussion sound that Phil was into at the time. You can say what you want about Phil, but he was definitely no minimalist. "Hung On You" is what Phil was all about in 1965. Listen to "He (Can Turn The Tide)" that Medley cut on Verve and you can hear the similarity with "Unchained Melody." If Phil had really done "Unchained" he would have cast it in the mold of the Ronettes' "Everything Under The Sun" or Bob B. Soxx's "Bells Of St. Mary". "See That Girl" would have been done with a stronger downbeat, not laid back. It might have sounded like "Walking in the Rain" without the thunder, if you could imagine that. Monophonius --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 00:31:18 +0100 (BST) From: Mick Patrick Subject: CAROL KAYE, MOTOWN & THE RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS Greetings, Let's get away from the Righteous Brothers for a moment, but stick with Carol Kaye. If anyone out there is still in any doubt about session legend Carol's involvement in Motown recordings they should do themselves a favour and get a copy of CALLING OUT AROUND THE WORLD: A MOTOWN READER (HELTER SKELTER PUBLISHING, 2001, ISBN 1-900924-14-5). Head for chapter 10, an interview with Carol by Kingsley Abbott who edited this unputdownable book. Carol tells all about those 'non-union' sessions in a way that is fascinating and utterly convincing. Heck, the lady has documentary proof and a great memory. Ostensibly a collection of Motown-themed articles published previously by specialist magazines like Goldmine, Record Collector, In The Basement, Rolling Stone, Song Talk, It Will Stand, Come And Get These Memories and Soulful Kinda Music, A Motown Reader also features a number of specially commissioned chapters, many of them written by Mr Abbott. I got my copy from Jim Stewart: www.soulsearchingplus.co.uk but you could go straight to the publisher: www.skelter.demon.co.uk or visit their shop at 4 Denmark Street, London, WC2H 8LL, the best music bookshop in town and just 10 minutes walk from where I work. Oh, well. Back to the Righteous Brothers. The book contained in the "Back To Mono" box set informs us that their "Unchained Melody" was recorded in March 1965 at Radio Recorders in Hollywood, NOT at Goldstar. Larry Levine was the engineer. Will this information assist in proving who produced this track? Would that producer have earned money as the result of the track's latterday success following its use in the movie Ghost? If so, should that remuneration have gone to P. Spector or B. Medley? MICK PATRICK BTW, Carol, MANY YEARS seperate the Righteous Brothers' Philles version and their VILE recut. It's impossible to confuse the two versions. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:01:04 -0700 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: Made up names > On most of the Bill Medley songs he used something > called The Mike Patterson Band which may have not > been the same musicians as Spector or was that a made > up name. > > Who was (is?) Mike Patterson. I'm sure that's a made-up name....people were always doing that back then....the real studio musicians' names were usually never put on the backs of the record albums back then, so it was open season to use any name (including changing the artists' name) they wanted.... Phil always had a sense of humor and would invent all kinds of stuff just for the hell of it. Like the "B" sides he had us cut at the last 5 mintues of a record date....we'd just jam and that would be "his tune" then. I do think that Bill Medley did have some talent at producing, knowing him fairly well from all our work with the Righteous Bros., but of course he wasn't Phil Spector...so many people were always in the booth trying to learn from Phil. And you're right about names including others that had nothing to do with the date "Ike and Tina Turner" for River Deep Mountain High....we all did that too, helped to quickly identify who was doing what where....even tho' we knew he wasn't on the date and didn't do anything (the "Righteous Bros." for just Bobby etc.)......the Righteous Bros. were so intertwined with Phil, and I really don't remember that much about "production" of Unchained Melody but we did know about the copy done for the reason that they claimed that they weren't getting their money out of Phil for his "Unchained" -- not sure what the details were about that, but that was the reason proffered. And Darlene Love was appearing with Bill Medley a lot at the Orange Country arena, I forget the name now, but was about 20 years and would be on his side too, as she had learned by that time that she should have gotten more money for her big involvement in his productions too (which she later did with her lawsuit).....so there is a connection there too of taking sides....I don't know who's right and who's wrong about production values, just my observations as a studio musician there on those dates with them all. I wouldn't believe engineers either, they are fallible with memories just like we all are....but in this case, I'd say that Larry is probably right, but I remember cutting "Soul And Inspiration" at Western Studio 1 for the Righteous Bros., not at Gold Star at all. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ PS. I will try to find out more from Don Randi when I speak with him soon about it, he knows a lot more than I do. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 06:42:15 +0100 From: "Peter Richmond" Subject: Spector or Medley Paul Urbahns wrote >Who was (is?) Mike Patterson. Mike Patterson was on old school friend of Bill Medley's, his band the Rhythm Rockers played rhythm & blues surf music, recorded for Moonglow and Challenge. With Mike Patterson on piano, the Rhythm Rockers backed the Righteous Brothers at the Rendezvous Ballroom when Bill Medley and Bobby Hatfield first formed the duo. >From the onset of the Righteous Brothers career, Patterson toured with them as musical director, after the Righteous Brothers split in 1968 he continued to work with Bill Medley. He was also worked as the Blossoms road manager in the late 60's plus also he and Art Munson produced a couple of tracks on their "Shockwave" album on Lion, he is credited as the conductor on the Blossoms MGM 13964 single "Tweedlee Dee"/"You Got Me Hummin" produced by Bill Medley. For the completist, Darlene Love is featured on the MGM 4783 album "6680 Lexington" a Mike Patterson project that he produced with Art Munson in 1971. There is a photo of Mike Patterson in Darlene Love's book "My Name Is Love". It is disappointing to see the needlessly cynical reference taken from the "Out Of His Head" book by Richard Williams - "something called the Mike Patterson Band" - still being quoted, bearing in mind that Williams had completely lost the plot on the previous page by failing to realise that "Hung On You" WAS indeed originally the A side to "Unchained Melody" in both the US & UK. Something that needs to be addressed, many collectors take as gospel a record label credit and quote this as the basis of evidence for their cause - the inaccuracies are quite unbelievable in some cases. Three such examples below, the 1969 Verve 10637 reissue of "You've Lost That Lovin Feelin" credits Bill Medley as the producer the 1973 UK MGM "Two By Two" compilation credits Phil Spector as producer of "Soul & Inspiration" on the very first release of the Righteous Brothers Greatest Hits in 1967 on Verve after they leased the Moonglow/Philles catalogue - "Just Once In My Life" lists the songwriters as "Goffin/King/Weil", of course omitting Phil Spector and erroneously crediting Cynthia Weil - this error was carried over on all the many subsequent repackages of this album including the one in the 1981 Phil Spector Box Set It is quite reasonable to assume that whoever put together the credits on the record labels at the vast MGM/Verve company had no knowledge or interest in the Righteous Brothers or were just incompetent at their job (more likely). However, I do find it hard to believe that at Philles Records, obviously a smaller concern, the owner himself would not be credited as producer of "Unchained Melody" until after it became obvious that it was receiving more airplay than the main side, "Hung On You". Peter Richmond Righteous Brothers Discography http://freespace.virgin.net/p.richmond/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 16:40:39 -0700 From: PjB Subject: to: carol kaye hello carol....my name is peter, and i am a jazz pianist of some 20 years professional standing, based now on the west coast. i have been, and remain, a fervent fan of your work over the years, and your unique and brilliant execution seem sometimes to be only the icing on the cake of an underlying musicality for the ages. a long and involved q & a is perhaps inappropriate for this particular forum and i would certainly not presume to impose upon your valuable time to such an extent, but i wanted to ask you few questions about one of your early cohorts; brian wilson. i have been exposed to much of the SMiLE era material, and it is interesting on several levels.....but perhaps the most difficult question to answer, and one i am hoping you might be able to shed some light on, it this: what *really* happened to brian? when i hear him producing these late 60s sessions, i hear a profoundly intelligent, quick-minded, and entirely cogent mind at work. he speaks with a normal, even quick cadence.... his comments are well expressed, and all in all he sounds like a man in complete control of his mental faculties. but as time went along, something very basic and elemental *changed* in brian, and he went from being a remarkably quick witted and even brilliant orator...certain well-documented eccentricities notwithstanding.... to a man who seemed to become one who was barely capable of coherent and pragmatic speech. the transformation was deep-seated and near total. drugs offer an easy and certainly undeniable partial explanation....but my impression is that there was something else which engendered in brian this wholesale transformation from a vital, bright, and well-spoken man into , well......something much different than that. it is this near-total transformation of character, down to and including even a marked change in quality and manner of speech....not to mention the dramatic and disturbing alterations in his outward behavior and manner of relating to others, even those closest to him.... that are so thought provoking. having had much experience with brian, whom i adore unreservedly, i would very much appreciate any comments you would care to share with me and/or the group. thanking for your invaluable contributions to this group, i remain, your biggest fan, peter --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 14:23:00 -0000 From: Keith Moore Subject: scary songs for halloween Re: Delia's message. I always think 'Is That All There Is?' by Peggy Lee is pretty scary although Cristina's hard-to-come-by version >from about 1980 (I only have it on tape from the Anne Nightingale Show) is scarier still! Keith --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 09:11:12 -0600 From: "Joseph Scott" Subject: Re: Sloan's on Stones I can picture Sloan as involved in production ideas for "Paint It Black" and in suggesting using a sitar on it. Hassinger was the engineer on those sessions and to a large extent in charge of them, I don't think anyone takes any of Stones manager Oldham's "production" credits very seriously, and the Stones were inviting people such as Nitzsche to contribute to their sessions, so seems entirely possible to me that Sloan got involved in pretty much the way he says he did. Joseph Scott --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 15:37:12 +0900 From: LePageWeb Subject: Crewe's in for cash Michael P wrote: > A few of my pals...have commented on the similarity in > appearance of the legendary producer and myself. How I > wish the likeness extended to our financial states. > > THE DYNOVOICE STORY double CD [is] being withdrawn > from sale. It seems Mr Crewe objected to his name and > likeness being used on the cover of this CD. All > remaining stock has been crushed. Everytime a Mick Patrick post arrives in Spectropop I gotta check my wallet - Yes, I ordered the Dynovoice Story the day I read Mick's post. I had been casually looking for it since it first came out, but now that Mr. Crewe has quoted $150,000 for his name and likeness rights, I knew I had better pick it up now. Question, though - how could Westside's business affairs (particularly since the release falls under British law) overlook clearance of name and likeness rights??? Did they assume Mr. Crewe would be just beside himself with glee at such a fabulous tribute? Oh well, boys will be boys, I guess. 2nd Q - Why destroy the stock? Why not just replace the front sleeve? "Mick and Malcolm present The Dynovoice Story - Devil with a Blue Dress On" or something like that. Just a thought - now waiting for the cd to show up in the mail, and thanks for the heads up, Mick! --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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