________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ There are 10 messages in this issue of Spectropop. Topics in this Digest Number 257: 1. ANN-MARGRET From: Mick Patrick 2. Re: Needles and Pins ID From: Stephane Rebeschini 3. Re: Needles and Pins ID From: Ton Borsboom 4. Re: Spector or Medley ??? From: Paul Underwood 5. Re: Lovin' Feelin' From: Carol Kaye 6. Who is (was?) Mike Patterson? From: Paul Urbahns 7. Re: More From: Carol Kaye 8. PRODUCED BY BILL MEDLEY From: Mick Patrick 9. Sloan's on Stones From: LePageWeb 10. Re: "Unchained Melody" From: "Mike Arcidiacono" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 07:41:22 +0100 (BST) From: Mick Patrick Subject: ANN-MARGRET Greetings, A Bear Family Box Set is a must have for Ann-Margret completists with big handbags. But what about we casual fans with tight budgets? Fear not, RCA have a very nice CD entitled THE VERY BEST OF ANN-MARGRET (RCA 07863 69389 2) available. I just bought a copy in HMV for 10 quid. It's a 14-tracker. Let's face it, there really should be twice that number of cuts. The nice 8 page booklet contains excellent track annotation (recording dates, even!), a few gorgeous piccies and a rather groovy essay penned by Michael Hill. Of course, A-M's big hit "I Just Don't Understand" gets the CD off to a killer start - the Beatles covered this great track, say no more. Rarely have I heard a singer so closely miked as Ann-Margret on some of the slower numbers. You can actually hear her lips part before she starts to sing (Down, boys!). Spectropoppers will particularly enjoy the three excellent Lou Adler-produced tracks arranged and written by P F Sloan & Steve Barri of the Fantastic Baggys - if you think "Someday Soon" sounds a bit like "You're No Good", that's because the guys wrote it for Betty Everett (she cut a version too). Other highlights include the super-sexy "Bachelor In Paradise" and Leiber & Stoller's "You're The Boss" (LaVern Baker & Jimmy Ricks, anyone?) sung with Elvis Presley but neither of these cuts are in Peggy March teritory. In fact, some of the material, and A-M's vocals could be stonger. But, hey, Ann-Margret's real talent was as a dancer and actress. The contents span 1961 to 1966, all in lovely stereo. MICK PATRICK --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 10:36:25 +0200 From: Stephane Rebeschini Subject: Re: Needles and Pins ID Spector Collector wrote: > > Hey gang, > > Great news, in the form of positive identification, for > Tom Borsboom and everyone else wondering who did the > version of "Needles and Pins" posted here a couple of > weeks ago: it's by Love and Tears, and was released in > the United States in 1972 on Polydor 15038. There are no > clues on the label regarding possible Steve Marriott > involvement; apart from composer credit, the only > information reads "A Michael Holm/Dieter Behlinda > Production." Hope this helps, and sorry it took so long > to get back to you, Tom! > > David A. Young > ------------- Hi This is my first post to the group! "A Michael Holm/Dieter Behlinda Production." means that's a German record, as Michael Holm was a pop singer who specialized in covers of US & UK hits. He had a big European hit circa 1968 with his cover of Sir Douglas Quintet's "Mendocino". Stephane Rebeschini, from France --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:12:15 -0000 From: Ton Borsboom Subject: Re: Needles and Pins ID Hi David, If you were a woman I could kiss you!! I hadn't become desperate (yet).....because I know that to get the right answer it takes time. It's a very different version than the ones I already know and that's what it made so interesting for me. Thanks for giving me the information I was looking for. Ton Borsboom >"Spector Collector" wrote: > > Great news, in the form of positive identification, for > Tom Borsboom and everyone else wondering who did the > version of "Needles and Pins" posted here a couple of > weeks ago: it's by Love and Tears, and was released in > the United States in 1972 on Polydor 15038. There are no > clues on the label regarding possible Steve Marriott > involvement; apart from composer credit, the only > information reads "A Michael Holm/Dieter Behlinda > Production." --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:33:47 +0200 From: Paul Underwood Subject: Re: Spector or Medley ??? RobtWicker wrote: > > The backing track is not mixed like any other Spector > track I've ever heard. And, if he produced that song, > how come Ebb Tide and White Cliffs Of Dover don't have > that same sound. Those two have his sound - echo, > pre-mixed rhythm track with vocals, violins and > percussion dubbed over, but Unchained clearly does not. > Not one Spector produced track before or after Unchained > Melody has the sound on that record. You can show the > development of Spector's recording techniques by > listening to the songs in chronological order - but only > if you leave out Unchained - it simply does not mesh > with the others. > Yes, but according to the box set, Unchained Melody was not made at Gold Star but at Radio Recorders, which could explain the difference in sound. Jack Nitzsche is also given credit for the arrangement, which seems surprising if Medley did the production. I can believe Medley produced the basic rhythm track, but not the strings or Bobby Hatfield's vocal. My ears tell me Spector did the strings, horns (am I imagining them?) and backing voices as well as the final mix, just as he later did with "The long and winding road". Try listening to the stereo version which isolates the rhythm track and the lead vocal. In a similar vein, Mark Ribowsky reckons Spector did not produce the Hair Anthology Suite. Does anyone else find that difficult to believe? Paul --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 10:22:04 -0700 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: Lovin' Feelin' > He quotes Larry Levine inisting to Phil that Levine, > Medley and Hatfield go into the studio one weekend to > produce an LP for Lovin' Feelin'. In the next sentence he > says Bill produced it I was there, am playing guitar on the date, in unison with Ray Pohlman on the bridge, Earl Palmer on drums, etc. it was cut live at Gold Star with the Righteous Bros. there singing, and Phil was IN the booth producing Lovin' Feelin'. I remember distinctly that we needed them to sing that number howbeit, they may have put the vocals on over again, we don't know about that)....and Medley could have walked in the booth to help Phil with the producing with just his feedback, that's not the same as staying in the booth all the time like Phil did....that WAS Phil's date totally. > Ebb Tide and White Cliffs Of Dover don't have that same > sound. Those two have his sound - echo, pre-mixed rhythm > track with vocals, violins and percussion dubbed over, but > Unchained clearly... It doesn't matter, producers CAN and DO get different sounds....I played on Ebb Tide and White Cliffs too.... > You can show the development of Spector's recording > techniques by listening to the songs in chronological > order - but only if you leave out Unchained - it simply > does not mesh with the others. Things don't have to go in chronological order to bear the stamp of the producer, no way....they can get all kinds of different sounds at any time....I worked for many many different producers, and I'd say they do NOT have "their own sounds" at all, it's always different. Phil was good at getting the echo sounds, but he did get other sounds too....he was a very capable producer and so was everyone else able to get any kind of sounds they wanted, it's not like making an airplane where one piece follows another. I do think there are "2" Unchained Melodies.....and the one on the air is with Phil Spector producing, that's the one we're playing on, and it's the one on the "Ghost" movie, etc. and yes, Medley is perfectly capable of producing...I played bass on the "Soul And Inspiration" but always tho't Phil was there at the date, that's how intertwined everyone can be on dates - the role of producer can be helped by outside forces (feedback) as mentioned above....that was Medley's date. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:12:16 EDT From: Paul Urbahns Subject: Who is (was?) Mike Patterson? Can someone check the credits for "Unchained Melody" on the Philles LP that it's on? (Just Once In My Life or even an original copy of "Greatest Hits" on Verve?) The album (Just Once In My Life) liners just read Producers: Phil Spector/Bill Medley But there are actually several songs that "sound" like Phil Spector: Just Once In My Life (1st track a side) Unchained Melody (3rd track a side) To a lesser extent: See That Girl (1st track b side) - normally used for the projected follow up single You'll Never Walk Alone (track 3 side b) See a pattern here? The rest are typical Bill Medley throw aways. Now See That Girl and You'll Never Walk Alone Have been credited to Bill Medley after the fact. and I am wondering if You'll Never Walk Alone should be a Spector production. See That Girl is probably produced by Medley because he is the only one singing and if we believe what has been written, Spector was producing the Bobby Hatfileld sides and Medley was producing his stuff. If you listen to You'll Never Walk Alone and notice how Medley starts the last word of You'll and Hatfield finishes it in a high pitched voice merging the two together into one. Sounds like something beyond where Bill Medley was at that time. Other than Just Once in My Life and Hung On You which are new writings. The songs Spector produced for the last album, Ebb Tide, Sentimental Reasons, White Cliffs Of Dover, and if we count in there Unclained Meoldy and You'll Never Walk Alone from the second album, They are all standards blown up to Cinemascope (as Richard Williams wrote) Phil probably didn't write many originals because it was about that time his interest turned to Tina Turner. What caused Carole Kaye and other musicians a problem, was when the original Phil Spector version of Unchained Melody was used in Ghost, Medley and Hatfield ( then with Curb) ran into the studio and did a cheap quickie. I heard it once (a friend bought a Curb Cd no knowing it was a remake). I never heard it used on the air. They always played the Phil Spector version from Ghost around here. Not taking anything away from what Bill Medley did later, and I respect his talent, but as a rule, at this point in time, he would had to have an awful lot of help to do Unchained Melody. And even if we found someone who had access to the original files from the sessions, like Carol Kaye said, that would not prove anything. Robert stated: > I've also heard snippets from an interview with > Darlene Love and Bill Medley where Medley stated > directly that he produced that track. I've heard that too but only after the song was famous and I always felt it was Bill Medleys way to explain how they had the Righteous Brothers name on a record that was basically a Bobby Hatfield solo. To make it appear that it was a joint effort by the two of them in some way. Phil was the kinda guy that would take a solo by Bobby hatfield and credit it as Righteous Brothers or take a Tina Turner solo and credit it to Ike and Tina Turner, even though I understand Ike had nothing to do with River Deep. On most of the Bill Medley songs he used something called The Mike Patterson Band which may have not been the same musicians as Spector or was that a made up name. Who was (is?) Mike Patterson. Paul Urbahns --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:59:01 -0000 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: More > Carol, ever heard of the Mike Patterson Band? How > about arrangers Woody Woodrich or Bill Baker? Ring > any bells? No, none of those. Bill Medley was perfectly capable of producing very well. I did see him go in the booth often with Phil on the songs we did for the Righteous Bros., but the main hits yes, we're playing on them, and you're probably right that Bill did later produce the "fillers", I don't know but will bring this up with Don Randi and others (Billy Strange is in town from Nashville, he played on some of those too), the musicians usually know and remember. Carol Kaye --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:33:53 +0100 (BST) From: Mick Patrick Subject: PRODUCED BY BILL MEDLEY Greetings, Jamie LePage on the Righteous Brothers' Philles albums: > That reminded me that all those Medley-produced filler > tracks were played by a different, much smaller group > of musicians than those on the A sides of Righteous > Brothers' singles. So is Unchained Melody unique in > being the only Phil Spector Productions recording that > Medley claims he produced on which the Spector > regulars rather than the Mike Patterson Band performed? > Or that had a full string section? Jamie, do check out Bill & Bobby's version of Barry Mann & Cynthia Weil's "SEE THAT GIRL" from their "Just Once In My Life" LP. This has never been claimed as an actual 'hands on' Phil Spector production yet has all of the ingredients you describe. For further proof that Bill Medley was quite capable of producing in the Spector style, get your lugs around "Just A Fool" by Jerry Ganey (Verve VK 10454, 1966). MICK PATRICK PS: I'm keen to purchase any Jerry Ganey 45s. If anyone has any for sale perhaps they could get in touch, purleeze. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 07:17:36 +0900 From: LePageWeb Subject: Sloan's on Stones Not that this has anything directly to do with the current "I actually produced Unchained Melody" thread, but I had to chuckle when I ran across this Phil Sloan quote yesterday while checking out Baggys' websites. This quote is from an 1995 interview. > Did you ever work with the Stones? > > -Yes, I was actually the producer of the 'Paint It Black' > session, although I wasn't credited for it. It was my > idea for there to be a sitar on that record. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:46:30 -0400 From: "Mike Arcidiacono" Subject: Re: "Unchained Melody" "Carol Kaye" wrote: > To tell you the truth, I don't remember, but always > assumed he was - he was always at his own dates...there > wouldn't be a recording date without him....it was > always under our impressions (speaking for Don Randi, > etc. here) that Phil did produce that. Folks, Larry Levine says that Phil WASNT there...because he engineered that session. He says that Bill Medly did indeed produce UM. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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