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Spectropop - Digest Number 257


                  
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There are 10 messages in this issue of Spectropop.

Topics in this Digest Number 257:

      1. ANN-MARGRET
           From: Mick Patrick 
      2. Re: Needles and Pins ID
           From: Stephane Rebeschini 
      3. Re: Needles and Pins ID
           From: Ton Borsboom 
      4. Re: Spector or Medley ???
           From: Paul Underwood 
      5. Re: Lovin' Feelin'
           From: Carol Kaye 
      6. Who is (was?) Mike Patterson?
           From: Paul Urbahns 
      7. Re: More
           From: Carol Kaye 
      8. PRODUCED BY BILL MEDLEY
           From: Mick Patrick 
      9. Sloan's on Stones
           From: LePageWeb 
     10. Re: "Unchained Melody"
           From: "Mike Arcidiacono" 


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Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 07:41:22 +0100 (BST)
   From: Mick Patrick 
Subject: ANN-MARGRET

Greetings,

A Bear Family Box Set is a must have for Ann-Margret
completists with big handbags. But what about we casual
fans with tight budgets? Fear not, RCA have a very nice
CD entitled THE VERY BEST OF ANN-MARGRET (RCA 07863 69389
2) available. I just bought a copy in HMV for 10 quid.
It's a 14-tracker. Let's face it, there really should be
twice that number of cuts. The nice 8 page booklet
contains excellent track annotation (recording dates,
even!), a few gorgeous piccies and a rather groovy essay
penned by Michael Hill. Of course, A-M's big hit "I Just
Don't Understand" gets the CD off to a killer start - the
Beatles covered this great track, say no more. Rarely
have I heard a singer so closely miked as Ann-Margret on
some of the slower numbers. You can actually hear her
lips part before she starts to sing (Down, boys!).

Spectropoppers will particularly enjoy the three
excellent Lou Adler-produced tracks arranged and written
by P F Sloan & Steve Barri of the Fantastic Baggys - if
you think "Someday Soon" sounds a bit like "You're No
Good", that's because the guys wrote it for Betty Everett
(she cut a version too). Other highlights include the
super-sexy "Bachelor In Paradise" and Leiber & Stoller's
"You're The Boss" (LaVern Baker & Jimmy Ricks, anyone?)
sung with Elvis Presley but neither of these cuts are in
Peggy March teritory. In fact, some of the material, and
A-M's vocals could be stonger. But, hey, Ann-Margret's
real talent was as a dancer and actress. The contents
span 1961 to 1966, all in lovely stereo.

MICK PATRICK


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Message: 2
   Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 10:36:25 +0200
   From: Stephane Rebeschini 
Subject: Re: Needles and Pins ID

Spector Collector wrote:
> 
> Hey gang,
> 
> Great news, in the form of positive identification, for
> Tom Borsboom and everyone else wondering who did the
> version of "Needles and Pins" posted here a couple of
> weeks ago: it's by Love and Tears, and was released in
> the United States in 1972 on Polydor 15038. There are no
> clues on the label regarding possible Steve Marriott
> involvement; apart from composer credit, the only
> information reads "A Michael Holm/Dieter Behlinda
> Production." Hope this helps, and sorry it took so long
> to get back to you, Tom!
> 
> David A. Young
> 
-------------
Hi

This is my first post to the group!

"A Michael Holm/Dieter Behlinda Production." means
that's a German record, as Michael Holm was a pop singer
who specialized in covers of US & UK hits. He had a big
European hit circa 1968 with his cover of Sir Douglas
Quintet's "Mendocino".

Stephane Rebeschini, from France


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Message: 3
   Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:12:15 -0000
   From: Ton Borsboom 
Subject: Re: Needles and Pins ID

Hi David,

If you were a woman I could kiss you!!

I hadn't become desperate (yet).....because I know that
to get the right answer it takes time. It's a very
different version than the ones I already know and that's
what it made so interesting for me.

Thanks for giving me the information I was looking for.
Ton Borsboom


>"Spector Collector" wrote:
>
> Great news, in the form of positive identification, for
> Tom Borsboom and everyone else wondering who did the
> version of "Needles and Pins" posted here a couple of
> weeks ago: it's by Love and Tears, and was released in
> the United States in 1972 on Polydor 15038. There are no
> clues on the label regarding possible Steve Marriott
> involvement; apart from composer credit, the only
> information reads "A Michael Holm/Dieter Behlinda
> Production." 


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Message: 4
   Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:33:47 +0200
   From: Paul Underwood 
Subject: Re: Spector or Medley ???

RobtWicker wrote:
> 
> The backing track is not mixed like any other Spector
> track I've ever heard.  And, if he produced that song,
> how come Ebb Tide and White Cliffs Of Dover don't have
> that same sound.  Those two have his sound - echo,
> pre-mixed rhythm track with vocals, violins and
> percussion dubbed over, but Unchained clearly does not.
> Not one Spector produced track before or after Unchained
> Melody has the sound on that record.  You can show the
> development of Spector's recording techniques by
> listening to the songs in chronological order - but only
> if you leave out Unchained - it simply does not mesh
> with the others.
> 
Yes, but according to the box set, Unchained Melody was
not made at Gold Star but at Radio Recorders, which
could explain the difference in sound. Jack Nitzsche is
also given credit for the arrangement, which seems
surprising if Medley did the production.

I can believe Medley produced the basic rhythm track,
but not the strings or Bobby Hatfield's vocal. My ears
tell me Spector did the strings, horns (am I imagining
them?) and backing voices as well as the final mix, just
as he later did with "The long and winding road". Try
listening to the stereo version which isolates the
rhythm track and the lead vocal.

In a similar vein, Mark Ribowsky reckons Spector did not
produce the Hair Anthology Suite. Does anyone else find
that difficult to believe?

Paul


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Message: 5
   Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 10:22:04 -0700
   From: Carol Kaye 
Subject: Re: Lovin' Feelin'

> He quotes Larry Levine inisting to Phil that Levine,
> Medley and Hatfield go into the studio one weekend to
> produce an LP for Lovin' Feelin'.  In the next sentence he
> says Bill produced it

I was there, am playing guitar on the date, in unison
with Ray Pohlman on the bridge, Earl Palmer on drums,
etc. it was cut live at Gold Star with the Righteous
Bros. there singing, and Phil was IN the booth producing
Lovin' Feelin'.  I remember distinctly that we needed
them to sing that number howbeit, they may have put the
vocals on over again, we don't know about that)....and
Medley could have walked in the booth to help Phil with
the producing with just his feedback, that's not the
same as staying in the booth all the time like Phil
did....that WAS Phil's date totally.

> Ebb Tide and White Cliffs Of Dover don't have that same
> sound.  Those two have his sound - echo, pre-mixed rhythm
> track with vocals, violins and percussion dubbed over, but
> Unchained clearly...

It doesn't matter, producers CAN and DO get different
sounds....I played on Ebb Tide and White Cliffs too....

> You can show the development of Spector's recording
> techniques by listening to the songs in chronological
> order - but only if you leave out Unchained - it simply
> does not mesh with the others.

Things don't have to go in chronological order to bear
the stamp of the producer, no way....they can get all
kinds of different sounds at any time....I worked for
many many different producers, and I'd say they do NOT
have "their own sounds" at all, it's always different. 
Phil was good at getting the echo sounds, but he did get
other sounds too....he was a very capable producer and so
was everyone else able to get any kind of sounds they
wanted, it's not like making an airplane where one piece
follows another.

I do think there are "2" Unchained Melodies.....and the
one on the air is with Phil Spector producing, that's the
one we're playing on, and it's the one on the "Ghost"
movie, etc. and yes, Medley is perfectly capable of
producing...I played bass on the "Soul And Inspiration"
but always tho't Phil was there at the date, that's how
intertwined everyone can be on dates - the role of
producer can be helped by outside forces (feedback) as
mentioned above....that was Medley's date. 

Carol Kaye
http://www.carolkaye.com/


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Message: 6
   Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:12:16 EDT
   From: Paul Urbahns 
Subject: Who is (was?) Mike Patterson?

Can someone check the credits for "Unchained Melody" on
the Philles LP that it's on? (Just Once In My Life or
even an original copy of "Greatest Hits" on Verve?)

The album (Just Once In My Life) liners just read
Producers: Phil Spector/Bill Medley

But there are actually several songs that "sound" like
Phil Spector:

Just Once In My Life (1st track a side)
Unchained Melody (3rd track a side)
To a lesser extent:
See That Girl (1st track b side) - normally used for the
projected follow up single
You'll Never Walk Alone (track 3 side b)
See a pattern here? 
The rest are typical Bill Medley throw aways.

Now See That Girl and You'll Never Walk Alone Have been
credited to Bill Medley after the fact. and I am
wondering if You'll Never Walk Alone should be a Spector
production. See That Girl is probably produced by Medley
because he is the only one singing and if we believe what
has been written, Spector was producing the Bobby
Hatfileld sides and Medley was producing his stuff. If
you listen to You'll Never Walk Alone and notice how
Medley starts the last word of You'll and Hatfield
finishes it in a high pitched voice merging the two
together into one. Sounds like something beyond where
Bill Medley was at that time.

Other than Just Once in My Life and Hung On You which are
new writings. The songs Spector produced for the last
album, Ebb Tide, Sentimental Reasons, White Cliffs Of
Dover, and if we count in there Unclained Meoldy and
You'll Never Walk Alone from the second album, They are
all standards blown up to Cinemascope (as Richard
Williams wrote)

Phil probably didn't write many originals because it was
about that time his interest turned to Tina Turner.

What caused Carole Kaye and other musicians a problem,
was when the original Phil Spector version of Unchained
Melody was used in Ghost, Medley and Hatfield ( then with
Curb) ran into the studio and did a cheap quickie. I
heard it once (a friend bought a Curb Cd no knowing it
was a remake). I never heard it used on the air. They
always played the Phil Spector version from Ghost around
here.

Not taking anything away from what Bill Medley did later,
and I respect his talent, but as a rule, at this point in
time, he would had to have an awful lot of  help to do
Unchained Melody. And even if we found someone who had
access to the original files from the sessions, like
Carol Kaye said, that would not prove anything.

Robert stated:

> I've also heard snippets from an interview with
> Darlene Love and Bill Medley where Medley stated
> directly that he produced that track.

I've heard that too but only after the song was famous
and I always felt it was Bill Medleys way to explain how
they had the Righteous Brothers name on a record that was
basically a Bobby Hatfield solo. To make it appear that
it was a joint effort by the two of them in some way.
Phil was the kinda guy that would take a solo by Bobby
hatfield and credit it as Righteous Brothers or take a
Tina Turner solo and credit it to Ike and Tina Turner,
even though I understand Ike had nothing to do with River
Deep.

On most of the Bill Medley songs he used something called
The Mike Patterson Band which may have not been the same
musicians as Spector or was that a made up name.

Who was (is?) Mike Patterson.


Paul Urbahns


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Message: 7
   Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 21:59:01 -0000
   From: Carol Kaye 
Subject: Re: More

> Carol, ever heard of the Mike Patterson Band? How
> about arrangers Woody Woodrich or Bill Baker? Ring
> any bells?

No, none of those.  Bill Medley was perfectly capable
of producing very well.  I did see him go in the booth
often with Phil on the songs we did for the Righteous
Bros., but the main hits yes, we're playing on them,
and you're probably right that Bill did later produce
the "fillers", I don't know but will bring this up with
Don Randi and others (Billy Strange is in town from
Nashville, he played on some of those too), the
musicians usually know and remember.

Carol Kaye


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Message: 8
   Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:33:53 +0100 (BST)
   From: Mick Patrick 
Subject: PRODUCED BY BILL MEDLEY

Greetings,

Jamie LePage on the Righteous Brothers' Philles albums:

> That reminded me that all those Medley-produced filler
> tracks were played by a different, much smaller group
> of musicians than those on the A sides of Righteous
> Brothers' singles. So is Unchained Melody unique in
> being the only Phil Spector Productions recording that
> Medley claims he produced on which the Spector
> regulars rather than the Mike Patterson Band performed?
> Or that had a full string section?

Jamie, do check out Bill & Bobby's version of Barry Mann
& Cynthia Weil's "SEE THAT GIRL" from their "Just Once In
My Life" LP. This has never been claimed as an actual
'hands on' Phil Spector production yet has all of the
ingredients you describe. For further proof that Bill
Medley was quite capable of producing in the Spector
style, get your lugs around "Just A Fool" by Jerry Ganey
(Verve VK 10454, 1966).

MICK PATRICK

PS: I'm keen to purchase any Jerry Ganey 45s. If anyone
has any for sale perhaps they could get in touch,
purleeze.


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Message: 9
   Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 07:17:36 +0900
   From: LePageWeb 
Subject: Sloan's on Stones

Not that this has anything directly to do with the
current "I actually produced Unchained Melody" thread,
but I had to chuckle when I ran across this Phil Sloan
quote yesterday while checking out Baggys' websites. This
quote is from an 1995 interview.

> Did you ever work with the Stones?
> 
> -Yes, I was actually the producer of the 'Paint It Black'
> session, although I wasn't credited for it. It was my
> idea for there to be a sitar on that record. 


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Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:46:30 -0400
   From: "Mike Arcidiacono" 
Subject: Re: "Unchained Melody"

"Carol Kaye" wrote:

> To tell you the truth, I don't remember, but always
> assumed he was - he was always at his own dates...there
> wouldn't be a recording date without him....it was
> always under our impressions (speaking for Don Randi,
> etc. here) that Phil did produce that.

Folks, Larry Levine says that Phil WASNT there...because
he engineered that session. He says that Bill Medly did
indeed produce UM.


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