http://www.spectropop.com ________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ super fi sound - in stereo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 10 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. RE: Stereo Crystals From: "Phil Chapman" 2. Re: Crystals In Stereo From: Billy Spradlin 3. Re: Spectrophonic From: Frank 4. Re: stereo crystals From: Freya 5. Re: Ventures From: Carol Kaye 6. Re: cake From: Patrick 7. Evie Sands on CD From: "Spector Collector" 8. Re: Evie Sands From: "Randy M. Kosht" 9. "The Screw" makes Snopes! From: Stewart Mason 10. Image Discussion From: Carol Kaye ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 17:08:51 +0100 From: "Phil Chapman" Subject: RE: Stereo Crystals I don't think these are 'digitally extracted' stereo, on "Da Doo Ron Ron" you can clearly hear the handclaps separately at the start. Both titles have had the left & right signal panned in a little (presumably because extremes sounded odd) and Gold-Star sounding echo has been added, which would tie in with Larry Levine's explanation. "Then He Kissed Me" has vocal centre, track left-ish, and strings right-ish (it's great to hear Jack's arrangement in more detail). "Heartbreaker" is hard left and right, no echo, probably taken from the bootleg session tapes that were doing the rounds a while back. Message: 2 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 00:05:04 -0000 From: Billy Spradlin Subject: Re: Crystals In Stereo "Mike Arcidiacono" wrote: > It isnt!! This is Not a True Stereo mix, altho it does > sound passably like one. It is a "Digitally Extracted > Stereo" mix, meaning that someone loaded the mono track > into Pro Tools, duped the mono into two identical tracks, > then sampled the backing music from the INTRO, where no > vocals are, then used the reduction pallet to remove the > backing leaving the vocal on the right side. However, as > is the problem with the computer aided stereo, the > vocals that remained are SERIOUSLY degraded with the > dreaded computer voice syndrome, that leaves the > "metallic", "robotic" tone to the vocals. I disagree, there is enough separation between the vocals and backing track that tells my ears that it's not fake stereo. If its just the opening intro looped over and over again why is there the sax solo and chorus? It sounds to me that this is a 2-track mix that someone has "squeezed in" so the separation isnt as wide. As for the "Metallic" and "Robotic" tone, that is from the MP3 compression the person used to make this file. Several MP3 rippers/encoders, such as Xing (used in Realplayer Jukebox and Audiocatalyst) and Blade Encoder (freeware) can add a nasty "phasing" sound to the high end (high hats, cymbals, tamborines. The lower the bitrate you compress your Mp3s at the more phased and robotic it will sound. I prefer using Lame (freeware) and FHG (used in many programs, Audioactive production studio and Musicmatch Jukebox) to make my MP3's. BTW: where can I get the Ultimate Ronnetes and Crystals CD's? Billy Message: 3 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 01 07:19:03 +0100 From: Frank Subject: Re: Spectrophonic >Billy mentioned the stereo Crystals recordings...I >mentioned a whole bunch of Spector stereo recordings I >just got my hands on. Is this something overlooked by >the "Back To Mono" crowd? Or is just too insignificant >to warrant data from the knowledge pool...What gives? >Was the mono man really stereo as well?? There were definitely quite a few tracks recorded in Stereo but many of the ones you found may also be fake stereo. Could you tell which tracks you have ? Frank Message: 4 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 02:58:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Freya Subject: Re: stereo crystals I have to say that I thought that the Da Do Ron Ron Ron track was quite interesting because it is sooooo different to the version I have always heard and I don't think it is just the drums. It just sounds different. A very different mix. I liked the stereo effect on this track, real or otherwise. (I thought the vocals seemed quite clear too) On the other side of things, I was shocked by how bad the stereo mix of heartbreaker was! All the instruments seemed to be panned really hard into either speaker leaving a massive hole in the middle. Maybe it is more noticeable amongst all these other stereo mixes. I can't believe that Phil Spector produced this mix???? Surely not!?? Wow the Doopees are incredible! I've never heard of them before but this stuff is amazing! Japanese vocals that sometimes sound as if they have been speeded up! Strange echo's, it's kind of weird (for something so Spector sounding)! Which means good in my book! ;) "CUTE MUSIC is keep your healthy, mind clear." Yay! (I think!) ;) On the subject of modern Spector influenced records. Has anyone else here heard a single by a band called Velocette called "Get yourself together", the 7inch of this was incredibly Phillip Spector influenced. I really loved that song, but I have the album and while the song is still good, the production is a lot less interesting. The whole album is a disappointment from that perspective. Has anyone else heard this? Anyone have a .mp3 of it? love Freya Message: 5 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:26:54 -0700 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: Ventures > Did you ever play any of the Bass tracks on ANY of the > Ventures records, Yes, I did a lot of the Ventures things but so did Ray Pohlman....it'll be in Russ Wapensky's LA Studio Musicians' Credits book due out this year (but still isn't quite finished yet, 10 years in the writing and researching for years 1945-1969), so I really don't know which ones....I'd know them if I heard them but I rarely play or listen to those old things. Yes, it was with Hal Blaine on drums the ones I did and last year at a trade show, the bass player of the Ventures and I met up again and we talked about it all, nice guy -- his photo will soon be on my website. So I'm on some, and Ray is on some....sorry don't know which ones as yet. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:51:48 -0000 From: Patrick Subject: Re: cake Alan Zweig wrote: > >The only Cake song I know is Baby That's Me, which Jack > >Nitzsche produced. Real magic in those grooves. I'd love > >to hear the entire album sometime. > > Maybe you would. But you'd be disappointed. There's > NOTHING on the rest of the record to touch Baby That's > Me. It's almost shocking how the record drops off after > that tune. I disagree!! while baby that's me is one of the only "spectoresque" moments on the lp, i think the folk inspired numbers are quite enchanting - they put their feelings behind it simply because that was the music they liked more and there is true feminine power in those grooves! same with their second lp - strange and wonderful stuff, Patrick Message: 7 Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:04:13 -0000 From: "Spector Collector" Subject: Evie Sands on CD Will George asked where he could find Evie Sands recordings on CD. Three of her Blue Cat tracks appear on the four-CD Charly compilation from 1991, "The Red Bird Story." Those same three $B!& (B"Take Me for a Little While," "Run Home to Your Mama," and "I Can't Let Go" $B!& (Bappear on the much-harder-to-find but better-sounding 1997 "The Red Bird Sound Vol. 2: Blue Cat Soul" compilation on Diamond, along with a fourth, "You've Got Me Uptight." Both comps are (of course) British. "I Can't Let Go" also appears on two U.S. releases: "The Jelly Beans and Friends" on Collectables (1996) and "The Best of the Girl Groups Volume 1" on Rhino (1990). As far as I can remember, that's it for legit CD releases of her '60s records. Also worth noting: her 2000 duet reuniting her with Chip Taylor on a cover of "Let's Put Our Hearts Together," found on the Brian Wilson/Beach Boys tribute album "Caroline Now" on the Marina label. Hope this helps, Will! David A. Young Message: 8 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 09:32:40 -0700 From: "Randy M. Kosht" Subject: Re: Evie Sands Hi, this one's in reply to Steve Stanley's post on Evie Sands You mentioned her A&M LP as being from 1968. Actually, "Any Way That You Want Me," A&M SP 4239, was released in 1970. Her first single there came out in '68, and I'm showing a 1969 release for the title track. The A&M back catalog situation gets very taxing for those of us tracking it. Of the things that do get re-released, some titles have been reissued on Mercury and Verve, instead of keeping them on A&M. > ...Evie is still actively making GREAT music and my > band The Now People are going to share a bill with her > sometime soon. Some friends and I had the privilege of > playing with Evie at a Christmas show here in LA. What > a voice. Could you let us know the dates when your band will be appearing with Evie? That would be worth checking out. Best regards, Randy M. Kosht Publisher, "A&M Records: The Discography" Message: 9 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 21:42:13 -0600 From: Stewart Mason Subject: "The Screw" makes Snopes! New entry on "(Let's Dance) The Screw" from the authoritative Urban Legends Reference Pages: http://www.spectropop.com/go2/the_screw.html Check their other music legends--lots of good stuff. S Message: 10 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:51:18 -0700 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Image Discussion A hot topic on my Message Board is how the rock musician drug/booze images hurts our school fundings (true, very much-discussed at our NAMM Trade shows). This is made worse by the playing up by the news media, magazines, press, TV etc. about how musicians are "all" a bunch of boozers, druggies, sex-crazed maniacs. And I believe this is why people can't believe a lot of present-day good things about Brian Wilson too. Following is a bit on this subject which you mayl find educational and interesting: My original Post: >>>>Posted by Carol on April 04, 2001 at 14:47:46: Having been in touch with Vinnie Bell's son, Ed, and found out some of the same/similar things going on back on the east coast, about the stars not wanting to acknowledge the great musicianship back there that put them on top at one time or another, I have to say something here. It's amazing to me the extremes they will go to to say why they're "not making hits currently" (the market, the styles, with Brian Wilson it's "mental illness" - not - he's fine) one reason or another with others when it's a simple thing: Where are the experienced 60s studio musicians? Where are the studio musicians as a GROUP who played together, created together, sweated over those tunes to come up with great hook lines, played our buns off, kept the egos and personal feelings about the music aside to pull together to cut those hits? Sure Vinnie Bell is still there recording, but he's got to put up with some really bad stuff from some inexperienced musicians now too (same out here), and I'm still recording here and there, Earl is too...but we're not "together" recording anymore. And the general public believes all the rot about musicians being drug-ridden spoiled stars (Bill Maher even said that) that the magazines play up for their own benefit....it couldn't be that musicians are normal people, the ones who are the most-creative and who are responsible for the greatest musical decade in history could it be? We don't make good copy. The 60s studio musicians.....we're too boring to write about, no drugs, no booze, not even sex or violence on the job.... musicians went home to get ther 6 hours sleep after working hard all day most of the days of the week...I was there, I heard them, played music hard with them, and they're a bunch of great family men....now what magazine would want to write about that? The magazine would fold up in a month, too b-o-r-i-n-g! But it was such fine musicianship that got all those hits in the 60s and we could cut a hit album in 6 hours -- too much coffee yes, and the guys smoked a lot (why we've lost a few) and yes, we knew we were just the backgrounders helping people become "stars" and so many of the groups we "were" would pretend they did their own recordings for wasn't that better to portray to the public than a Milli-Vanilli? They hire great musicians, the top of the line for the symphonies, right? But it must have been Brian's "mental illness" why he can't do it anymore - only people who want to believe tripe (makes them feel better somehow...ugh), they can't believe he's the same guy, a little "out there" sure, like the rest of our fine composers -- I'd say he's just as sane as you and me.......it couldn't be because he doesn't have the top-of-the-line 60s studio musicians anymore.....nah! I tell politicians about how the public loves the music of the 60s, and one even noted "and you all didn't use drugs like the listeners tho't you did as musicians"....right! So how long will it take before studio musicians finally get their due?! Or is this just too much to screw up sales of the "stars" who have kept us hidden for decades....and maybe the RRHOF would have to recognize real musicianship more than their token "sideman" thing. It would be a novel idea (and correct) to give accolades to great musicianship in the studios wouldn't it? Something like making stars out of teachers, environmentalists, scientists, and other people trying to make a difference in our world....not images, no, but real people doing something really great in the world to make it a better place. To hell with phony images stirred up for sales of magazines. This is a real world, and we're facing some real issues. Hopefully the music biz can face truth and learn to be a vital business again. <<< And another one of mine: >>>>All the press on the high-profile druggie musicians affects EVERY school board in the nation, and they're fighting a lot of boards to keep music in the schools as little as they have it. No, it's "not just a few bad eggs", it's a national disaster affecting the school music programs of ALL of our children. Never in the history of education have we had so little spent on ANY school music education and yes, it's the "musicians' reputations" that's mainly causing it now -- these same schools (outside of LA we're talking about - LA knows how important music is but just won't spend money on it)...they don't want music as "musicians cause the drug problems to get worse"!...any parent will tell you that. Yet, music is exactly what they need in this crisis of kids bringing guns to school, they need creative arts to express themselves with (not guns). Oour Local 47 has been fighting to bring music in the schools in LA too....trying to supply Trust Fund gigs for our pro musicians to go around to schools for seminars etc. to try to help with the gang situations out here in LA (it's a proven fact that music gives kids something to live for - they'd rather play music than be in gangs)...it's so cut-back now in the former music programs dropped from our schools. And it's that way all over the country.....thanks to the high-profile drunks, drug-addicts and crazy musicians getting in the press! But no.....they don't want to talk about the Studio Musicians who recorded some of the greatest hits ever cut, because we're not good press....we're too boring -- not dying from drugs or booze.<<<< >From a public music teacher in Delaware, one of the few left in grade school: >>>>Wow, you really hit the nail on the head there Carol. Just for those of you who don't know me I teach music for grade school kids aged 6 to 12. I teach band and general music. I see 700 students a week. My yearly classroom budget for supplies is now about $ 350. Thats 50 cents per student for the year. I do fund raisers etc. and pay for things out of my own pocket so I get by okay. I consider myself lucky that I have a classroom and don't have to travel between schools. I teach instruments during my planning time. My only break is 30 minutes for lunch. Most of my band students will not go on with their instrument after high school or college. So people ask "Why do we need music?" Well Carol mentioned a lot about domains of learning in the brain and improved test scores. But, one of the many things is that the student will discover something about him or herself that they might have not otherwise recgonized without experiences in music. When these youngsters sign up for band I tell them that their instrument can take them on a fantastic amazing journey. I know that its true. Next year about 75 students that I started will perform in Holland at the tulip festival. For many of my students, band or music is the reason they wanted to go to school that day. Their primary motivation for getting out the door to make the bus is not because they want to do more worksheets or learn about the main exports of Peru. Lord knows we need more surgeons in this world. How is a child going to train their fine motor skills and learn to maintain long periods of mental concentration? Music certainly fills this need. In fact many of my adult students are doctors. To get back to your original point, I agree that musicians have been unfairly singled out when it comes to drugs. I would be willing to bet that those who work full time for a number of years playing music have a no higher rate of drug use and alcoholism than other groups. Right now my students are studying what you guys did back then and they think that you were all highly skilled professionals. People are more interested in talking about what you and your colleagues did back there in the 60's than about those folks who played at Woodstock 99'. <<<< >From a lifelong working career musician in Texas now>>>>CK, you're right, the image of the studio musicians doesn't fit the "rock star" agenda that sells magazines, or makes heroes out of no-talent misanthropic "artists" or makes scandalous TV viewing. Someone, somewhere, should do a documentary on the people that played such a HUGE part in creating the music that all the world enjoys to this day. But, since it wouldn't include sex, drugs, or most things that tittilate a jaded audience of today, probably no one will. That is not right, because I think most people would be fascinated to know the story behind the records they love. <<<< >from Carol: and I've personally spoken to many doctors, lawyers, plumbers, good people, you name it who remember with great fondness their school music days as well as the skills they learned in school bands for academia. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ End
Spectropop text contents & copy; copyright Spectropop unless stated otherwise. All rights in and to the contents of these documents, including each element embodied therein, is subject to copyright protection under international copyright law. Any use, reuse, reproduction and/or adaptation without written permission of the owners is a violation of copyright law and is strictly prohibited. All rights reserved.