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Spectropop - Digest Number 145

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______________        S  P  E  C  T  R  O  P  O  P        ______________
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                      super fi sound - in stereo

There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. RE: Stereo Crystals
           From: "Phil Chapman"  
      2. Re: Crystals In Stereo
           From: Billy Spradlin
      3. Re: Spectrophonic
           From: Frank  
      4. Re: stereo crystals
           From: Freya  
      5. Re: Ventures
           From: Carol Kaye  
      6. Re: cake
           From: Patrick  
      7. Evie Sands on CD
           From: "Spector Collector"  
      8. Re: Evie Sands
           From: "Randy M. Kosht"  
      9. "The Screw" makes Snopes!
           From: Stewart Mason  
     10. Image Discussion
           From: Carol Kaye  


Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 17:08:51 +0100
   From: "Phil Chapman"  
Subject: RE: Stereo Crystals

I don't think these are 'digitally extracted' stereo, on
"Da Doo Ron Ron" you can clearly hear the handclaps
separately at the start. Both titles have had the left &
right signal panned in a little (presumably because
extremes sounded odd) and Gold-Star sounding echo has
been added, which would tie in with Larry Levine's
explanation. "Then He Kissed Me" has vocal centre, track
left-ish, and strings right-ish (it's great to hear
Jack's arrangement in more detail). "Heartbreaker" is
hard left and right, no echo, probably taken from the
bootleg session tapes that were doing the rounds a while

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Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 00:05:04 -0000
   From: Billy Spradlin
Subject: Re: Crystals In Stereo

"Mike Arcidiacono" wrote:

> It isnt!!  This is Not a True Stereo mix, altho it does
> sound passably like one. It is a "Digitally Extracted
> Stereo" mix, meaning that someone loaded the mono track
> into Pro Tools, duped the mono into two identical tracks,
> then sampled the backing music from the INTRO, where no
> vocals are, then used the reduction pallet to remove the
> backing leaving the vocal on the right side. However, as
> is the problem with the computer aided stereo, the
> vocals that remained are SERIOUSLY degraded with the
> dreaded computer voice syndrome, that leaves the
> "metallic", "robotic" tone to the vocals.

I disagree, there is enough separation between the
vocals and backing track that tells my ears that it's
not fake stereo. If its just the opening intro looped
over and over again why is there the sax solo and
chorus? It sounds to me that this is a 2-track mix that
someone has "squeezed in" so the separation isnt as

As for the "Metallic" and "Robotic" tone, that is from
the MP3 compression the person used to make this file.
Several MP3 rippers/encoders, such as Xing (used in
Realplayer Jukebox and Audiocatalyst) and Blade Encoder
(freeware) can add a nasty "phasing" sound to the high
end (high hats, cymbals, tamborines. The lower the
bitrate you compress your Mp3s at the more phased and
robotic it will sound. I prefer using Lame (freeware)
and FHG (used in many programs, Audioactive production
studio and Musicmatch Jukebox) to make my MP3's.

BTW: where can I get the Ultimate Ronnetes and Crystals


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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 05 Apr 01 07:19:03 +0100
   From: Frank  
Subject: Re: Spectrophonic

>Billy mentioned the stereo Crystals recordings...I
>mentioned a whole bunch of Spector stereo recordings I
>just got my hands on. Is this something overlooked by
>the "Back To Mono" crowd? Or is just too insignificant
>to warrant data from the knowledge pool...What gives?
>Was the mono man really stereo as well??

There were definitely quite a few tracks recorded in
Stereo but many of the ones you found may also be fake
stereo. Could you tell which tracks you have ?

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Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 02:58:45 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Freya  
Subject: Re: stereo crystals

I have to say that I thought that the Da Do Ron Ron
Ron track was quite interesting because it is sooooo
different to the version I have always heard and I
don't think it is just the drums. It just sounds
different. A very different mix. I liked the stereo
effect on this track, real or otherwise. (I thought
the vocals seemed quite clear too)

On the other side of things, I was shocked by how bad
the stereo mix of heartbreaker was! All the instruments
seemed to be panned really hard into either speaker
leaving a massive hole in the middle. Maybe it is more
noticeable amongst all these other stereo mixes. I
can't believe that Phil Spector produced this mix????
Surely not!??

Wow the Doopees are incredible! I've never heard of
them before but this stuff is amazing! Japanese vocals
that sometimes sound as if they have been speeded
up! Strange echo's, it's kind of weird (for something
so Spector sounding)! Which means good in my book! ;) 

"CUTE MUSIC is keep your healthy, mind clear."
Yay! (I think!) ;)

On the subject of modern Spector influenced records.
Has anyone else here heard a single by a band called
Velocette called "Get yourself together", the 7inch of
this was incredibly Phillip Spector influenced. I
really loved that song, but I have the album and while
the song is still good, the production is a lot less
interesting. The whole album is a disappointment from
that perspective. Has anyone else heard this? Anyone
have a .mp3 of it?



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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:26:54 -0700
   From: Carol Kaye  
Subject: Re: Ventures

> Did you ever play any of the Bass tracks on ANY of the
> Ventures records,

Yes, I did a lot of the Ventures things but so did Ray'll be in Russ Wapensky's LA Studio
Musicians' Credits book due out this year (but still
isn't quite finished yet, 10 years in the writing and
researching for years 1945-1969), so I really don't know
which ones....I'd know them if I heard them but I rarely
play or listen to those old things.

Yes, it was with Hal Blaine on drums the ones I did and
last year at a trade show, the bass player of the
Ventures and I met up again and we talked about it all,
nice guy -- his photo will soon be on my website. So I'm
on some, and Ray is on some....sorry don't know which
ones as yet.  

Carol Kaye

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Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:51:48 -0000
   From: Patrick  
Subject: Re: cake

Alan Zweig  wrote:

> >The only Cake song I know is Baby That's Me, which Jack
> >Nitzsche produced. Real magic in those grooves. I'd love
> >to hear the entire album sometime.
> Maybe you would.  But you'd be disappointed. There's
> NOTHING on the rest of the record to touch Baby That's
> Me. It's almost shocking how the record drops off after
> that tune.

I disagree!! while baby that's me is one of the only
"spectoresque" moments on the lp, i think the folk
inspired numbers are quite enchanting - they put their
feelings behind it simply because that was the music
they liked more and there is true feminine power in
those grooves! same with their second lp - strange and
wonderful stuff,


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Message: 7
   Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 19:04:13 -0000
   From: "Spector Collector"  
Subject: Evie Sands on CD

Will George asked where he could find Evie Sands
recordings on CD. Three of her Blue Cat tracks appear on
the four-CD Charly compilation from 1991, "The Red Bird
Story." Those same three  $B!& (B"Take Me for a Little While,"
"Run Home to Your Mama," and "I Can't Let Go"  $B!& (Bappear
on the much-harder-to-find but better-sounding 1997 "The
Red Bird Sound Vol. 2: Blue Cat Soul" compilation on
Diamond, along with a fourth, "You've Got Me Uptight."
Both comps are (of course) British.

"I Can't Let Go" also appears on two U.S. releases: "The
Jelly Beans and Friends" on Collectables (1996) and "The
Best of the Girl Groups Volume 1" on Rhino (1990). As
far as I can remember, that's it for legit CD releases
of her '60s records.

Also worth noting: her 2000 duet reuniting her with Chip
Taylor on a cover of "Let's Put Our Hearts Together,"
found on the Brian Wilson/Beach Boys tribute album
"Caroline Now" on the Marina label.

Hope this helps, Will!

David A. Young

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Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 09:32:40 -0700
   From: "Randy M. Kosht"  
Subject: Re: Evie Sands

Hi, this one's in reply to Steve Stanley's post on Evie

You mentioned her A&M LP as being from 1968.  Actually,
"Any Way That You Want Me," A&M SP 4239, was released
in 1970.  Her first single there came out in '68, and
I'm showing a 1969 release for the title track.

The A&M back catalog situation gets very taxing for
those of us tracking it.  Of the things that do get
re-released, some titles have been reissued on Mercury
and Verve, instead of keeping them on A&M.

> ...Evie is still actively making GREAT music and my
> band The Now People are going to share a bill with her
> sometime soon. Some friends and I had the privilege of
> playing with Evie at a Christmas show here in LA. What
> a voice.

Could you let us know the dates when your band will be
appearing with Evie? That would be worth checking out.

Best regards,
Randy M. Kosht
Publisher, "A&M Records:  The Discography"

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Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 21:42:13 -0600
   From: Stewart Mason  
Subject: "The Screw" makes Snopes!

New entry on "(Let's Dance) The Screw" from the
authoritative Urban Legends Reference Pages:

Check their other music legends--lots of good stuff.


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Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:51:18 -0700
   From: Carol Kaye  
Subject: Image Discussion

A hot topic on my Message Board is how the rock musician
drug/booze images hurts our school fundings (true, very
much-discussed at our NAMM Trade shows). This is made
worse by the playing up by the news media, magazines,
press, TV etc. about how musicians are "all" a bunch of
boozers, druggies, sex-crazed maniacs.

And I believe this is why people can't believe a lot of
present-day good things about Brian Wilson too. 
Following is a bit on this subject which you mayl find
educational and interesting:

My original Post:  >>>>Posted by Carol on April 04, 2001
at 14:47:46:

Having been in touch with Vinnie Bell's son, Ed, and
found out some of the same/similar things going on back
on the east coast, about the stars not wanting to
acknowledge the great musicianship back there that put
them on top at one time or another, I have to say
something here.

It's amazing to me the extremes they will go to to say
why they're "not making hits currently" (the market, the
styles, with Brian Wilson it's "mental illness" - not -
he's fine) one reason or another with others when it's a
simple thing:

Where are the experienced 60s studio musicians? Where
are the studio musicians as a GROUP who played together,
created together, sweated over those tunes to come up
with great hook lines, played our buns off, kept the
egos and personal feelings about the music aside to pull
together to cut those hits? Sure Vinnie Bell is still
there recording, but he's got to put up with some really
bad stuff from some inexperienced musicians now too
(same out here), and I'm still recording here and there,
Earl is too...but we're not "together" recording anymore.

And the general public believes all the rot about
musicians being drug-ridden spoiled stars (Bill Maher
even said that) that the magazines play up for their own couldn't be that musicians are normal
people, the ones who are the most-creative and who are
responsible for the greatest musical decade in history
could it be? We don't make good copy.

The 60s studio musicians.....we're too boring to write
about, no drugs, no booze, not even sex or violence on
the job.... musicians went home to get ther 6 hours
sleep after working hard all day most of the days of the
week...I was there, I heard them, played music hard with
them, and they're a bunch of great family
what magazine would want to write about that? The
magazine would fold up in a month, too b-o-r-i-n-g!

But it was such fine musicianship that got all those
hits in the 60s and we could cut a hit album in 6 hours
-- too much coffee yes, and the guys smoked a lot (why
we've lost a few) and yes, we knew we were just the
backgrounders helping people become "stars" and so many
of the groups we "were" would pretend they did their own
recordings for wasn't that better to portray to the
public than a Milli-Vanilli?

They hire great musicians, the top of the line for the
symphonies, right? But it must have been Brian's "mental
illness" why he can't do it anymore - only people who
want to believe tripe (makes them feel better
somehow...ugh), they can't believe he's the same guy, a
little "out there" sure, like the rest of our fine
composers -- I'd say he's just as sane as you and couldn't be because he doesn't have the
top-of-the-line 60s studio musicians anymore.....nah!

I tell politicians about how the public loves the music
of the 60s, and one even noted "and you all didn't use
drugs like the listeners tho't you did as
musicians"....right! So how long will it take before
studio musicians finally get their due?! Or is this just
too much to screw up sales of the "stars" who have kept
us hidden for decades....and maybe the RRHOF would have
to recognize real musicianship more than their token
"sideman" thing.

It would be a novel idea (and correct) to give accolades
to great musicianship in the studios wouldn't it? 
Something like making stars out of teachers,
environmentalists, scientists, and other people trying
to make a difference in our world....not images, no, but
real people doing something really great in the world to
make it a better place. To hell with phony images
stirred up for sales of magazines.  This is a real world,
and we're facing some real issues. Hopefully the music
biz can face truth and learn to be a vital business
again. <<<

And another one of mine:  >>>>All the press on the
high-profile druggie musicians affects EVERY school
board in the nation, and they're fighting a lot of
boards to keep music in the schools as little as they
have it.

No, it's "not just a few bad eggs", it's a national
disaster affecting the school music programs of ALL of
our children. Never in the history of education have we
had so little spent on ANY school music education and
yes, it's the "musicians' reputations" that's mainly
causing it now -- these same schools (outside of LA
we're talking about - LA knows how important music is
but just won't spend money on it)...they don't want
music as "musicians cause the drug problems to get
worse"!...any parent will tell you that.  Yet, music is
exactly what they need in this crisis of kids bringing
guns to school, they need creative arts to express
themselves with (not guns).

Oour Local 47 has been fighting to bring music in the
schools in LA too....trying to supply Trust Fund gigs
for our pro musicians to go around to schools for
seminars etc. to try to help with the gang situations
out here in LA (it's a proven fact that music gives kids
something to live for - they'd rather play music than be
in gangs)'s so cut-back now in the former music
programs dropped from our schools.

And it's that way all over the country.....thanks to the
high-profile drunks, drug-addicts and crazy musicians
getting in the press! But no.....they don't want to talk
about the Studio Musicians who recorded some of the
greatest hits ever cut, because we're not good
press....we're too boring -- not dying from drugs or

>From a public music teacher in Delaware, one of the few
left in grade school:  >>>>Wow, you really hit the nail
on the head there Carol. Just for those of you who don't
know me I teach music for grade school kids aged 6 to 12.
I teach band and general music. I see 700 students a
week. My yearly classroom budget for supplies is now
about $ 350. Thats 50 cents per student for the year. I
do fund raisers etc. and pay for things out of my own
pocket so I get by okay. I consider myself lucky that I
have a classroom and don't have to travel between
schools. I teach instruments during my planning time. My
only break is 30 minutes for lunch.

Most of my band students will not go on with their
instrument after high school or college. So people ask
"Why do we need music?" Well Carol mentioned a lot about
domains of learning in the brain and improved test
scores. But, one of the many things is that the student
will discover something about him or herself that they
might have not otherwise recgonized without experiences
in music.

When these youngsters sign up for band I tell them that
their instrument can take them on a fantastic amazing
journey. I know that its true. Next year about 75
students that I started will perform in Holland at the
tulip festival.

For many of my students, band or music is the reason
they wanted to go to school that day. Their primary
motivation for getting out the door to make the bus is
not because they want to do more worksheets or learn
about the main exports of Peru.

Lord knows we need more surgeons in this world. How is a
child going to train their fine motor skills and learn
to maintain long periods of mental concentration? Music
certainly fills this need. In fact many of my adult
students are doctors.

To get back to your original point, I agree that
musicians have been unfairly singled out when it comes
to drugs. I would be willing to bet that those who work
full time for a number of years playing music have a no
higher rate of drug use and alcoholism than other groups.

Right now my students are studying what you guys did
back then and they think that you were all highly
skilled professionals.  People are more interested in
talking about what you and your colleagues did back
there in the 60's than about those folks who played at
Woodstock 99'. <<<<

>From a lifelong working career musician in Texas
now>>>>CK, you're right, the image of the studio
musicians doesn't fit the "rock star" agenda that sells
magazines, or makes heroes out of no-talent misanthropic
"artists" or makes scandalous TV viewing. Someone,
somewhere, should do a documentary on the people that
played such a HUGE part in creating the music that all
the world enjoys to this day. But, since it wouldn't
include sex, drugs, or most things that tittilate a
jaded audience of today, probably no one will. That is
not right, because I think most people would be
fascinated to know the story behind the records they
love. <<<<

>from Carol:  and I've personally spoken to many doctors,
lawyers, plumbers, good people, you name it who remember
with great fondness their school music days as well as
the skills they learned in school bands for academia. 
Carol Kaye

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