http://www.spectropop.com ________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ Also available on 4 & 8 track tape cartridges and Musicassettes ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 9 messages in this issue of Spectropop. Topics in this Digest Number 140: 1. Beach Boys BBC Radio 2 & Smile From: "Kingsley Abbott" 2. Re: Smile, Bob Keane etc. From: Carol Kaye 3. Re: Brian Wilson From: Tobias Bernsand 4. Re: Connie Stevens PS From: Andrew Hickey 5. From Perry Botkin re: "Little Miss Understood" From: Carol Kaye 6. Re: Secrets From: "Mike Arcidiacono" 7. Re: P. Spector Box set. From: Frank 8. BOX SET OR 45rpm? From: "radiopro" 9. Re: spector box set From: Billy G. Spradlin ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:31:33 +0100 From: "Kingsley Abbott" Subject: Beach Boys BBC Radio 2 & Smile Freya's comments on the BBC Radio 2 recent two part BB's programmes have been echoed by many people I have spoken to. I worked on it, but only so far as to point them in the right direction to interesting people to talk to, and to set up some of the interviews. The whole thing was hastily constructed, with Christmas getting in the way as well, and the writer Patrick Humphries had only a small fraction of his words actually used. The "sound collage" effect was the show's producer trying to do something a bit new with the style of music documentary, and most seem to agree that it misfired. Even I couldn't follow who was speaking at times, and there were one or two pretty unforgivable errors along the way. Wrists have been metaphorically slapped! There was also a complaint on the BBC Feedback programme about it from someone who felt that Tim Rice's delivery of the story lacked something, a point that I'd have to concur with. Regarding Smile I have my own feelings about what it could/should have been. Recall that some of it, "Cabinessence" sections for example, were finished before Pet Sounds was even released, and this suggests to me that Brian was heading towards what I describe as 'A great american historical landscape' album with Van Dyke (who was around as Pet Sounds was being prepared). If you look at the lyrical themes of "Cabinessence" and "H&V", and put them with later themes visited in 88 by Brian "Rio Grande" and Van Dyke with Brian on much of "Orange Crate Art", there was I feel a very great album potential within reach but that Brian got sidetracked into the Elemental themes and other areas which confused him and ultimately tipped the whole shebang off the rails. What is commonly available as Smile on the various (expensive) bootlegs is not, IMO, any sort of great album. It certainly has its moments of genius, but as a cohesive and shaped album worthy of a follow up to the wonderful wholeness of Pet Sounds, No. But there are enough clues and good directions in there to hint towards what might have been. I actually put these exact points to Brian a couple of weeks back when I spoke to him for my Pet Sounds book, but I don't think he fully understood what I was on about. I'd be most interested to hear other list members feelings about it. Kingsley Abbott --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 06:52:51 -0800 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: Smile, Bob Keane etc. > Smile would have blown everyone away. Yes, I agree and said so on the BBC radio special....it was his best work to date, beating Pet Sounds a lot imo - I played on most of Pet Sounds and most of Smile too. Also, and I said this too on the same interview..... that movie scores are done in pieces (I've played on 100s of movie scores, did some of the finest scores >from 60s through 80s), so what's the big deal about Brian doing Smile in pieces?.....for some reason he quit Smile, probably his personal problems, but I never saw a change in him at all in the studios all during those years....he was his normal happy self creating great music and great recordings. Plus, in my interview I made it a point to say how everyone loves to be a "judge of Brian Wilson, his music, the way he conducted his life when they literally don't know about those years and about him (except what they read) -- just judgemental craziness like talking about him going around his house in his robe -- Playboy's Hugh Hefner lives in his robe." > this will definitely be a book all of you will want to > read if you wanna get an idea about the L.A. indie label > music biz from the late Fifties and throughout the 60's... Bryan hi! Please let me know what Fred Smith's phone no. is, I'd love to say hello to him, hope he's doing well, etc. thanks. You bet that book will be simply great! I saw Bob at the Ritchie Valens Memorial Tribute and he's very excited about his book finally coming out soon...sounds like you all worked very hard on it and it will blow people away about how the industry was (and Bob doing so much too) back then....yes we did know each other back then, and it was warm and friendly and beautiful, so new, so much creativity with great talents running around, stoking up the business more and more. Bob's story has so much to give about the recording industry. > Connie Stevens that I knew of was "Lost In Wonderland," I have Connie Stevens (and remember her date!) in my , so I must be on that if it's the "only one"....I was hired by David Gates on Elec. Bass on some things back then...just heard from him while back too, he's in San Diego county, enjoying the good life there. Interestingly enough, David himself is a fine bassist besides being a good arranger, etc. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:59:48 +0200 From: Tobias Bernsand Subject: Re: Brian Wilson > Firstly is there anyone here who could make me a copy > of smile. Practically everything you need is on the Good Vibrations box...unless you're one of those Smile uber-geeks like me. You can probably find the most common bootleg tracks on Napster. > Also what is anyones opinion of the solo Brian Wilson > material that came out? I like those records a lot. BW88 is still a total classic, though I think Nighttime and Let It Shine should've been replaced by Let's Do It Again and Heavenly Lovers. "Imagination", which I thought was horribly bland at first, has grown a little on me. I've grown to appreciate Brian's songs, but the arrangements and production are still too AOR for my taste. And what is the Kenny G sax solo doing in Happy Days? I miss the Spector influence in "Imagination", especiially since it was all over BW88 and the 2nd version of Sweet Insanity. BTW, while I'm already sending a message to the list...I got a T3 connection a couple of days ago, and I've enjoyed Spectropop Radio *a lot*. It's terrific to listen to while working on a paper! What record is The Ronettes' "Lovers" taken from? Never heard it before...how many 1963-66 Spector productions were left off his box set? Toby PS. I play Spector's Xmas record all over the year, not just in December! What about you guys? --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 00:39:49 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Hickey Subject: Re: Connie Stevens PS > ...regarding "Little Miss Understood." I'll bet > dollars to donuts there's a Perry Botkin credit, > either songwriting or production, in there somewhere. > Sure hope someone can either confirm or deny. Don't know the track, but if it's the same song as the Rod Stewart one, it was written by Mike D'Abo... ===== Subliminal message: Buy the new Stealth Munchkin album - www.geocities.com/stealth_munchkin --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 09:42:40 -0800 From: Carol Kaye Subject: From Perry Botkin re: "Little Miss Understood" "Jack Madani" wrote re Connie Stevens > It just occurred to me, regarding "Little Miss > Understood." I'll bet dollars to donuts there's a > Perry Botkin credit, either songwriting or > production, in there somewhere. Sure hope someone > can either confirm or deny. jack >From Perry Botkin, my good friend: "I co-wrote the song with Gil Garfield and wrote the arrangement. P. " Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:59:42 -0800 From: "Mike Arcidiacono" Subject: Re: Secrets Brad Elliott wrote: >> BTW, does anyone have any info on the Secrets who >> had a release on Red Bird 10076? > > I've never heard the single, but it ought to be straight > teenage rock 'n' roll. The group is one of the first > entries on the resume of Max Weinberg, drummer for Bruce > Springsteen and the Conan O'Brien Show. I think that is an error. As Red Bird closed in mid 1965 , Max would have been about 9 or 10 years old. It's also possible its a different Max Weinberg, that's not an unusual name by any means, especially here on the East Coast. Mikey --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 01 09:05:58 +0100 From: Frank Subject: Re: P. Spector Box set. >When I saw the question of: Should I buy the Phil >Spector's "Back to Mono" set or try to buy the 45's? >Which is better? > >I was very surprised with all the answers though most >have said no (which is fine) and then explain what's >wrong with the CD set from other songs fans wanted to >favoring vinyl over CDs but not that the CD set is bad. > >I am sorry, but if the set is that bad that you could >not recommend it to someone who just wants to start a >quick collection, I wish someone would say so. I have >both the CD and LP set and every Year I play the >Christmas CD that comes with the CD set. I have about 5 >copies of the Christmas LP but I prefer the CD because >it is easier to program in my Stereo as well as my >Computer. > >My point is this. My favorite car is the 1931 Rolls >Royce Phantom II but I would not recommend it over >anything on the road today because of practicality. Interesting but practicality doesn't make it better quality. The fact is that to real fans the box set was a disapointment. As far as being introduced to the magic of Spector,to a newcomer I'd recomend any CD compilation of the Righteous Brothers on Verve and any re-re-re release of the Xmas LP. While I'll stick to Back To Mono on all his early stuff nothing will tear me away from these titles in Stereo. And furthermore the sound on the box set is definitely low quality and does not make Phil Spector justice. Frank --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:11:58 -0500 From: "radiopro" Subject: BOX SET OR 45rpm? Hi Folks: G. Spector wrote: > When I saw the question of: Should I buy the Phil > Spector's "Back to Mono" set or try to buy the 45's? > Which is better? > > I was very surprised with all the answers though most > have said no (which is fine) and then explain what's > wrong with the CD set from other songs fans wanted to > favoring vinyl over CDs but not that the CD set is bad. The original recordings were mixed and EQ'd for the Technology that was available to the "consumer" (radio and fans) in those days......which was AM radio heard, for the most part, on small speakers with limited frequency response and relatively cheap "record players" of The Day...(the brand name "Sea Breeze" comes to mind). It was the way we first heard them. It was our "template" for what sounded great. When FM Oldies Radio was born and my personal reproduction equipment became better, those same recordings just never sounded quite right to me. In particular, the Motown records which had been EQ'd very "hot" at the "high end" to "cut through" on AM radio, sounded very "thin" and often irritating. That's the "downside". The "upside" is that, now that I have a great "stereo system", it's great hearing instruments on many of those old recordings that I never clearly heard before. The Stereo is often "hokey" (the Beatles come to mind), but nevertheless, for the most part I'm pretty happy. Although, I must admit, I occasionally wish I still had my old Sea Breeze. So many of those old records, Spector's in particular, sounded like they were trying to squeeze through a partially opened door. Today's "playback technology" has opened the door wide. It feels like some of the Energy has been lost. WC --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:52:26 -0000 From: Billy G. Spradlin Subject: Re: spector box set As far as convenience goes, I would go with the CD Box set. I know many people were unhappy with the packaging, song selection and remastering but it's the quickest, easiest way for someone new to Spector's productions to get "all the hits" in one place for a decent price. I thought the booklet with the song lyrics and cool photos was a nice touch. Billy --- In spectropop "Jennifer" wrote: > This may seem like an obvious question, but I was > wondering how good the "Back to Mono" Spector box set > was. is it better to buy that or to buy the individual > cds? > > any help is greatly appreciated --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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