http://www.spectropop.com ________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ "there never was another era like that since and there never will be" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 12 messages in this issue. Topics in this Digest Number 136: 1. Re: Spector box set From: Marc Wielage 2. Finally something about Spector From: James Botticelli 3. Philles & Laurie Singles From: Jimmy Crescitelli 4. Dion From: "Kingsley Abbott" 5. Re: Dion "Born To Be With You" From: Ted T. 6. New Members. Old Groups. Exploitation From: James Botticelli 7. Johnny Tillotson quick comment From: "Jack Madani" 8. Re: Sonny and Cher From: Carol Kaye 9. Help needed - discography of Jerry Ross' Colossus Label 45s From: Toni-Lynn 10. New file uploaded to spectropop From: Spectropop Admin 11. Re: The Cake From: Allen Toombs 12. Pattern People & The Popcorn Explosion From: Brian Chidester ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 22:43:30 -0800 From: Marc Wielage Subject: Re: Spector box set john rausch commented on the Spectropop Group: > And speaking of Spector. I want to mention to the group > that Mark Ribowsky book "He's A Rebel" has been reissued > and is now available in its entirety from the original > '90s version that was taken off the market due to some > legal reasons with Mr. Spector. So if you didn't get it > first time around it is available again. >-----------------
------------------< Speaking of that, I have both editions of the book, but I never got a straight story on exactly what was changed in the "bowdlerized" edition. To save me the trouble, does anybody know exactly what Ribowsky was forced to change in the 2nd edition? I was surprised when that story hit about 10 years ago, because I've gone through the original book fairly recently, and noted that the author lavished praise on nearly every Spector production. Granted, Phil had a lot of quirks and was extremely moody (to say the least). But I didn't see anything that was all _that_ scandalous. (On the other hand, maybe I've just lived in LA for far too long!) --MFW -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -= Marc Wielage | "The computerized authority =- -= MusicTrax, LLC | on rock, pop, & soul." =- -= Chatsworth, CA | =- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 03:36:00 EST From: James Botticelli Subject: Finally something about Spector This guy I know that used to listen to me on the radio is always trying to impress me...I feel like saying "Chill Chief, we're all schmucks, just git wid it, yo." Anyways, this guy is a stereo FANATIC with a capital F. Today he gives me a burned CD of Phil Spector produced hits--the familiar stuff BTW-- IN STEREO. I haven't listened to it yet, but I did hear the recording "How Does It Feel" by The Ronettes in stereo a few years back (not electronically enhanced either). So, the question is.......Did Mr. "Back To Mono" actually record his stuff in stereo as well? JB Curious in Boston --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 05:42:25 EST From: Jimmy Crescitelli Subject: Philles & Laurie Singles In a message dated 3/25/01, Al Q. writes: > This may be a heretical thing to say here, but I was > quite disappointed by the Wall of Sound box. Although it > has a wonderful selection of material, it sounds shallow > and thin, especially when compared to the original > singles, most of which I've owned at one time or another. > > Al Q. > NY > Ya know, I have to agree. I was introduced to all those Spector Crystals / Ronettes singles by friends and cousins who gave them to me in 1970-1971; I also filled out my collection at Kape Records in Brooklyn (that was a whole other experience). I've always thought the sound on them was better than any CD reproduction; I guess I just prefer the greasy original 45's because they sound so rich and full. It's like each little black disk explodes with song when you place it on the turntable and play it... the CD versions don't seem to be able to "keep up" in my opinion. That also goes for my Chiffons singles... "I Have A Boyfriend" never sounds better than it does on its original Laurie 45. Jim Crescitelli --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 13:48:13 +0100 From: "Kingsley Abbott" Subject: Dion Interesting to read Guy Thomas' comments about Dion. I reckon the man to be one the absolute top men in rock/pop, with a voice that is as sharp now as it was in '58, as is witnessed on the totally wonderful "Deja Nu" album from last year (If you haven't got this, I'd reckon it to be an essential purchase for the majority of people on this site - great songs, performances and held-back production). The album was incidently conceived as a soundtrack to a film of Dion's life that didn't materialise. Each song had a planned scene for it, so you get the one from the 'Winter Dance Party' tour called "Hug My Radiator" which recalls the feeling of the extreme cold they all had to endure that winter on that tour, when all Dion could think about was to reach the motel or whatever and crouch around some heat before tryong to perform like it was mid-summer! Check out other songs for other aspects, like the Holly tribute one. We are so lucky to still have Dion with us - not as a shadow of himself doing oldies package shows endlessly retreading a few hits, but as a totally committed artist of 2001 still making fab records! He didn't get on that plane on that tour because the fare was the same amount as his parents monthly rent and he couldn't bring himself to pay that much...so we still have him. Kingsley Abbott --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 12:54:28 -0800 From: Ted T. Subject: Re: Dion "Born To Be With You" Hi, I'm one of those terrible lurkers who is wowed by the Spectropop group and who is ashamed about never finding the time to contribute. You're all terrific, and many special thanks to Ms. Kaye, who really illuminates the entire R&R landscape with her facts and insights. 1) Born To Be With You. For me, this side (the full 6 minute plus version) is not only the best record Phil ever made, but remains the greatest record ANYBODY has ever made, period. Believe me, I am not making this statement lightly: it's taken me the better part of 50 years of intense listening to everything I can get my ears on to reach this conclusion. The record, however, is not an easy record to get into. When I play it for people, I usually make sure it's about 3 in the morning, the room is dark, and everybody is in a "been everywhere, done everything, ready to turn the page" mood. Of course, it's not for all tastes. If you're a student of Alfred Hitchcock, it's like "Vertigo" or "Marnie" compared to "The 39 Steps" or "The Lady Vanishes". All four are great movies, but the later films are on an entirely different spiritual plane. They tear your heart out. Taken as a whole, however, the Born To Be With You LP is a mixed bag. For me, there are three standout sides: 1) the title song, 02 ) Only You Know and 3) In and Out of Shadows. The last two are Goffin-Spector collaborations. (Note: on some UK pressings of the album, the liner notes list "In and Out of Shadows" as "In and Out of Showers".) The three other Spector productions on the album are less interesting to me. The Mann-Weil song, "Make the Woman Love Me", has moments of great beauty in it, but Dion sounds too shrill. (This song is listed as "Make the World Love Me" on some pressings. Must have had some great proofreaders at Polydor in those days.) Finally, "Good Lovin' Man" is atrocious, and "He's Got the Whole World In His Hands", is OK but nothing very special. The album is rounded out by reissues of two excellent sides from Dion's folk-rock period, "Your Own Back Yard" (produced by Phil Gernhard) and "New York City Song" (produced by Cashman & West). The Spector production "Baby, Let's Stick Together" doesn't figure on the Born To Be With You LP, but was issued as a single, and later turned up on the Phil Spector 74-79 Polydor album. I don't really like this side, because it's overall mood seems a little forced. I don't know if Springsteen played guitar on it, but Melody Maker editor Ray Coleman was at one of the sessions and wrote a piece about it, noting that Springsteen was a guest in the booth with Spector, and that this was their first meeting, something that Springsteen had long been looking forward to. 2) A couple of questions for everybody. As long as I'm on the page, I would be grateful for help with these two questions. First, does anybody know what has become of British rock writer and Spector biographer, Richard Williams? I corresponded with Richard briefly in the 1970s during his A&R stint at Island Records. From there he went back to Melody Maker, and then, in the 1980s, to the London newspaper The Times. But I've lost track since then. My second question concerns the famous 1964 David Susskind TV show (the one Tom Wolfe immortalized in his essay on Spector). I saw the program twice, when it was run and re-run in New York, and there were several other panelists on it. One, of course, was the WNEW "quality music" DJ, William B. Williams. Also present were WINS icon, Murray the "K" (highly articulate and a staunch defender of Phil on the program when he was being attacked by William B.) and teen queen Lesley Gore (fresh >from Sarah Lawrence, but not very talkative on the show). But there were one or two other people on the show, whose names I don't recall. Can anybody help? Also, does anybody know if tapes (or even a transcript of this program have survived? It was certainly a landmark for all Spector fans. Thanks much, Ted T. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 15:01:02 EST From: James Botticelli Subject: New Members. Old Groups. Exploitation There was some mention of "new members" in old groups, etc as part of the Girl Group special on PBS...I've already commented on that particular form of highbrow exploitiation of pop culture to get peeple to dial with dollars, so I'll let THAT be (thankfully, you say!). But the book has yet to be written on groups consisting entirely of new members carrying the old name only, more than one touring group with the same name, illegitimate usage of names of groups by part time former members and fill-ins, and so on...Over the years I have heard stories about The Drifters, Platters, Wilson Pickett, three touring duos of Sam & Dave simultaneously, shells of former selves, look-a-likes, yadayadayada....Comments anyone?? JB --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 12:04:17 -0500 From: "Jack Madani" Subject: Johnny Tillotson quick comment Johnny Tillotson was mentioned in a completely different context in the previous post--all I wanted to say was that he sang the totally awesome Sinatra-styled theme song to the tv show version of Gidget, starring Sally Field. Great show, even greater theme song. Man, I still remember the whole lyric and will gladly sing it for you any time you like. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 10:58:57 -0800 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: Sonny and Cher You're right, they were in love, and a great couple, sometimes even a little spat in the studio which made the dates even that more intense, but fun as Cher would get a little pissed and go play percussion with the percussion section (unlike Sonny, she had a good sense of "time" :-) They were a fun-couple, and I enjoyed recording for them both, and have spent a little time talking with Cher too, she was proud of her Mustang with the pink fur....and we'd laugh. Here's what I had written before - Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com The subject of Sonny Bono came up tonight while I was speaking to some people. Just was thinking of what he had last told me when I first came back to Calif. early summer of 1993 when I visited with him in his posh dinner restaurant in Palm Springs. He seemed completely at ease, was planning for his future role in politics and we discussed about his serious plans to do a Broadway production too, interesting. We had some laughs, and then he deadpanned "Carol, you know we saw the BEST of it in the 60s, there never was another era like that since and there never will be"....I somewhat agreed with him, but kept in the back of my head "if I could really play again, get another surgery that would allow me to play bass again...hmmm....we'll see about that!" Well, I got the surgery, am playing but he's right...it's over, no era again for the bass like it was then. Then as if on cue, he started speaking about Cher, but not in a sentimental way just as a matter of course. "Carol, I made Cher, I know that, but she hasn't quite realized that yet"...he wasn't feeling sorry for himself, he was much too much of a great individual for that. I've always known that Sonny NEVER did get his due (my saying that to him made him feel a little better I know - he knew I *knew*, but actually he was alright without all the hoopla, and it was OK with him). The public bought that TV image he had so carefully crafted, and even when he was on the Lettermen show, the "old Sonny" sort of popped out - the "almost-losing it" guy, he was so good at that...if only everyone knew him like I saw him. Sonny was this sophisticated suave cock-sure man I was sitting across from at the table in his restaurant. He was himself with me, the fine producer he was - the self-made man, probably better than Phil Spector ever could be, someone who knew what he was and what he had done. The fact that the public never knew, and probably will never know didn't bother him in the least, that's how confident he was. And gracious to a fault. A short time ago, I finally saw all the film on TV of Cher at Sonny's funeral, a funeral I almost went to, but just couldn't, it broke me up quite a bit when he died, it was so senseless. But Cher's tears were real, got me pretty well shaken up. I have to say: "Sonny, I know that Cher knows now what you did for her". God Bless. ---------------------------------------------------- Well, Sonny was someone special you bet and I liked Cher too, while a little aloof at first on the record dates, I think because she was so young, I found her to be really a great gal. The public had/has a certain image of Sonny that was so totally false, but he even surprised us with his later breadth of thinking, he was truly special. He did care what the public tho't of him but knew and used the total imagery that is projected by Hollywood to its full degree too, to get "Sonny & Cher" going. See my new post about him in answer to Joseph's post too: Joseph posted: > Hi Carol, > > Sure appreciated this post of yours. > > Re Sonny's success in music, I think the proof's in the > pudding there. You don't accomplish all that without > knowing what you're doing. There aren't any Forrest > Gumps in the real world. > > Re the silly pretend persona he invented at the time of > the TV show, he brought a lot of people enjoyment with > that... so score two for Sonny as talented entertainer. > (Stan Laurel and Lou Costello were very intelligent men > too.) > > I'm glad to hear Sonny didn't really care what people > thought of him. He had bigger fish to fry, like passing > laws protecting musicians' rights. > Best, > Joseph And I answered his post with: Joseph, right with all you said. He was sure a great wit on his TV show with Cher alright, perfect timing with the comedy. We used to kid him when he'd try to sit in with the rhythm section and bang on tambourines (Cher later did that too, she was better at it) on record dates. He couldn't even pat his foot in time, let alone play a percussion section instrument in time and when Phil would get ready to roll a take, he'd "call Sonny in to answer a phone call" and start the take as soon as he was out of the room. But when we all worked for Sonny shortly thereafter, you saw the brilliance he had in producing, whew! Sonny could definitely call the shots to get the hit record rolling and then later wrote about it in his book (and gave newspaper interviews too) about how the studio musicians "helped him with his little dittys which were 'nothing' tunes", think that's what he said in the newspapers, and that struck me as he was the absolute FIRST to talk about us and give us some credits publicly -- I've said it was Brian Wilson and his Pet Sounds booklet, but no, I was wrong, Sonny did that about 1990 when his book came out....really made an impression on how much he appreciated us at that time. When I spoke to him about this in '93, he just pooh-poohed it, just run of the mill for him. I do believe his strong Italian heritage and sense of his real self and what he could really do kept him together when he had a few hard times there temporarily while Cher's star kept rising and rising. He had a nice place in Houston when I motored into that city and I left him a note at the restaurant there in the 80s, but never heard from him. Think he was possibly gone by that time. He was very happy with wife Mary tho', finally was the family man he always wanted to be with her and happy in Palm Springs where he did a good job as mayor. But he really surprised me speaking seriously about it all in Palm Springs, and tho' I always knew he was a brilliant man, I didn't realize how brilliant until he spoke confidently and intelligently about politics. Right after that I spent time with his realtor friend Chip, who really knew him too and wow....was just amazed at my former boss. To be familiar with someone like Sonny and not realize the depths and breadth of what he was capable of doing in the wide arena of politics on ALL subjects was an eye-opener to even me....I'll never forget it. And at a time in my life when I needed a little pat on the back, he so graciously gave that to me and more. Such a man. When I heard he died, was very upset, as I knew he was on the verge of becoming one of our great statesmen and truly help our country. He wasn't afraid to be himself at all, and knew enough about the Hollywood image to separate himself from it and do what was in his heart and mind, no problem. Here's what Ben Valley, AirForce One cockpit designer says about Sonny also: > Thanks for the email on Sonny. I always felt he was > under appreciated. I will be forever impressed by the > one time I met him at his restaurant over on Robertson > in BH. He was in a white restaurant-kitchen outfit > picking up trash in the parking lot....hardly a spoiled > "star". Just a down to earth guy. I think the public and especially the news media were very surprised the outpouring of love, affection, and admiraton for Sonny Bono at the time of his funeral. He was yet to prove how great he was at politics, in the sense of where he wanted to go with it, but he definitely turned a lot of heads while in office and made his mark already with that. I know he'd probably be one of the greats and honest to boot to try to do something for our country that was worthy. Yes, I miss him. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 20:09:14 -0000 From: Toni-Lynn Subject: Help needed - discography of Jerry Ross' Colossus Label 45s I am trying to put together a discography of the 45s issued on Jerry Ross' Colossus Label. The label, as many of you know, was active from about 1969 through 1971 and is best known for spearheading the what might be called the Dutch Invasion with hits by the Tee Set, Shocking Blue, and George Baker Selection. The label was so much more than those 3 hits. To the best of my knowledge 47 singles were released (100 to 146) I have placed a file in the files area that is my attempt to put together the discography. Here are a few notes on the holes that I hope someone can help me to fill, and few comments on the other gems in the list. First -- what I'm missing: A-side and B-side missing: 101, 105, 106, 109, 115, 120, 121, 122, 125, 126, 127, 129, 131, 133, 135, 126, 137, 138, 140, 143 B-side missing: 102, 103, 104, 113, 139 Some of the overlooked gems (and not gems) are: Ganip Ganop -- Colossus does Super K! Italian Asphalt & Paving Company -- actually the Duprees Jerry Ross Symposium -- Jerry does lounge music proud Crystal Mansion -- Early, if not the first, James Taylor cover with their release of his Carolina in my Mind. B-side sound like duck farts, though! Devonnes -- lovely Philly girl soul sound a la the Three Degrees. Shoulda beena hit! The Mob -- great soul sound with covers of Money and Carole King's Where You Lead Can anyone help out with filling the holes in this list? Toni-Lynn --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:24:47 +0900 From: Spectropop Admin Subject: New file uploaded to spectropop Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Spectropop Group. File : /Jerry_Ross_Colossus_45s.txt Description : A discography of the 45s on Colossus You can access the file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/Jerry_Ross_Colossus_45s.txt Thank you for your interest in the Spectropop Group. Regards, The Spectropop Admin Team --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:16:07 +0900 From: Allen Toombs Subject: Re: The Cake I knew two of the girls, Eleanor and Jeanette, back in the late sixties. They were living in New York and hanging around Steve Paul's The Scene, THE rock club in that era. If they weren't full fledged groupies, they were real close. As I recall, Jeanette married one of the guys from Traffic. Don't know how long that lasted. I remember liking one or two songs on the album I heard (on Decca?) and would love to hear the best tracks again. I've got Baby That's Me, but I didn't realize it was the same group. Any chance one of you folks with the actual albums are on Napster? I'd love to hear a few more of the good tracks. Another hazy memory to share: Greene and Stone were actually involved with Mac Rebbenack during the Beijing of the Dr. John thing. I never knew Brian Stone, but Charlie was as fast a talker as I've met. Aside from the Cake (and Sonny & Cher, to some degree) he was working with some pretty non-Spectorish acts,including Jerry Williams (not Swamp Dogg) and another really talented New Orleans songwriter who's name escapes me. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:14:16 +0900 From: Brian Chidester Subject: Pattern People & The Popcorn Explosion Anyone know anything about these two bands? Their output? The years they recorded together? Who they were and which writers/producers they worked with? --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
Spectropop text contents © copyright 2001 Spectropop unless stated otherwise. All rights in and to the contents of these documents, including each element embodied therein, is subject to copyright protection under international copyright law. Any use, reuse, reproduction and/or adaptation without written permission of the owners is a violation of copyright law and is strictly prohibited. All rights reserved.