________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ a egalement enregistre - Super 45 tours - microsillon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 7 messages in this issue of Spectropop. Topics in this Digest Number 132: 1. Re: What did Dino Meano? From: Frank 2. Gold Star echo From: "Phil Chapman" 3. Just an Old Fashioned Echo From: LePageWeb 4. Re: Sonny's singing From: Carol Kaye 5. Me on Dion From: LePageWeb 6. Re: Ritchie Valens Tribute From: Carol Kaye 7. Van McCoy in Philly From: "Frank Lipsius" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 01 09:14:55 +0100 From: Frank Subject: Re: What did Dino Meano? Well, I'm lurking most of the time but as a total Phil Spector and Dean Martin freak (I have everything related to these two great ones on records) but it's probably the fact that I'm French that pushed me to step in this time. Saying that Dino's French Way or ("Spanish way" for that matter) may be his best LP is almost like saying that Phil Spector's B sides are the best tracks he ever produced. This "French LP" is probably one of his weakest (though the "Spanish" one comes a very close second) with unimaginative arrangements. If you really want to know what Dean's talent is really like you should definitely listen to "Dream With Dean" where he sings with just a small quartet backing him thus exposing his incredible relaxed and powerful style. This Lp with a big band swinging one like "Swinging Down Yonder" perfectly show the full extent of his unique talent. Frank ("Back To Spector") >spectropop wrote: > >>Does anyone know what I'm asking? > >I think you are asking "did deano record any consistently >great LP's" Well, yes there are two that I recommend: >"Dino Does It The French Way" is the greatest LP he ever >recorded IMHO, and his "Cha Cha D'Amore" LP is pretty >Latino for Dino, pretty smokin' and sexxxy all the way >through. I'll burn 'em up for you in about a week Alan >Z...both came out on CD boots a few years back on >the--Casa Nostra--label~... > >JB --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:36:15 -0000 From: "Phil Chapman" Subject: Gold Star echo Jack Madani asks: > 1. there was an actual "chamber," a room or space of > some sort, where there was a great sounding echo in it. > 2. then a speaker was put in the chamber. > 3. then a microphone was also put in the chamber. > 4. then the microphone was used to record the echoing > sound generated by the chamber as the speaker played the > music. > 5. then the sound from the microphone was fed back into > the mixing board, and the echo was added to the > recording's mix. > > Is this right? ...basically yes, although there was another added ingredient: tape-delay. Phil/Larry would put signals into a tape machine, and then send the output of the replay-head to the echo chamber. In a UK radio interview Phil said it was just an extension of the 50s slapback echo principle as used on Elvis etc. My feeling is that the mechanical innacuracies of this method produced slight pitch shifts, adding to the 'magical' effect. You can hear it all over the rhythm section of "Hung On You", and it works particularly well for Ronnie's vocal on "Born To Be Together" and the lamentably witheld "Paradise". One other effect that is not too easy to recreate these days is the way the echo was added to the track at the point of recording. A decision on the proportion of echo was made there and then. Any subsequent equalisation during the mix, and especially compression, would affect the echo too. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:13:21 +0900 From: LePageWeb Subject: Just an Old Fashioned Echo Jack Madani wrote: > 1. there was an actual "chamber," a room or space of > some sort, where there was a great sounding echo in it. > 2. then a speaker was put in the chamber. > 3. then a microphone was also put in the chamber. > 4. then the microphone was used to record the echoing > sound generated by the chamber as the speaker played the > music. > 5. then the sound from the microphone was fed back into > the mixing board, and the echo was added to the > recording's mix. > > Is this right? Yeah, except if the musicians actually "perform" inside the chamber, then you don't need the speaker (as in Arthur Lyman and his band recording inside the Kaiser Dome). On a similar (((in the chamber))) subject, check out Hal Blaine's own recollection of recording Simon & Garfunkel's "The Boxer" (a personal fave btw) with producer/engineer extraordinaire Roy Halee: "Roy Halee would walk around clapping his hands looking for kind of an echo effect. And we were at Columbia in New York on the sixth floor I believe it was, and from the studio you kind of walked out and down and it went around almost like a ramp to the elevator. And he found a spot right in front of the elevator that had a tremendous echo and he loved it! This was a Sunday and we were doing 'The Boxer' and they had me set up... I set up two giant tom-toms right in front of the elevator where Ray had found the great echo. And of course there was a line coming out for my headset, so I was obviously the only one who could hear the music... (singing) lie la lie POW! lie la lie la lie la lie lie la lie POW! And at one point my hands came down to hit that smack and the elevator door opened and there was an elderly gentleman in a security guard uniform. And I guess he thought that he just got shot! It was like a shotgun, POW!" Great story!!! The whole interview is linked at: http://www.spectropop.com/go2/halblaine.html All the best, Jamie --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:12:29 -0800 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: Sonny's singing Jon wrote: > especially Sonny's unique singing. His singing drove me up the wall too - he couldn't sing but would be the first one to admit it. He didn't sing on their tracking dates - so he spared us, but I heard him later, yuck.....but he is far underrated as a producer -- he ranks up there with the finest as a producer....he was excellent in the booth and just simply great to work for, I truly loved the guy. He treated the studio musicians with great respect, and was fun to work for. It was usually Harold Battiste who wrote the arrangements, and Sonny had me on the elec. 12-string fills (and other guitar work) for most of his first dates, and later I played bass on the Sonny & Cher (or just Cher things). We used to kid Sonny before when he was a gofer for Phil Spector as he'd love to sit in with the rhythm section and play tambourine (or something). He couldn't pat his foot in time....and just before the take, Phil would hollar the PA "Sonny, there's an important phone-call for you, come and take it" and as soon as Sonny was out of the room, Phil would roll the take. We'd crack up about that, but Sonny proved himself a terrific producer, wonderfully decent person, and was simply great to work for.....made me cry for days when he died. When I first moved back to Calif. in 1993, I saw him at his Palm Springs restaurant and he was the same Sonny Bono, was very warm - friendly as ever, welcomed me and we had a good chat there, he even got his real estate man to try to help me find a house in the area - he knew he was responsible for Cher getting up there but wasn't a bitter man at all for not getting his real due as a producer...he had his eyes on the politics and producing a stage show for Broadway, but mostly politics - he was a dedicated man -- I think people got really fooled by his demeanor of acting the comedic parts he used to do.........I miss him and Cher as good people, fun people to work for. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ Interviews at: http://www.luxuriamusic.com/Download_Page?downloadID=10878 and http://www.emplive.com/archives/index.asp?section=intv&id=10&pg=1 --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:15:16 +0900 From: LePageWeb Subject: Me on Dion "Spector Collector" wrote: > "Born to Be With You"...I like that song, but I love > the non-LP Spector-produced (and Jeff Barry > co-written) single "Baby Let's Stick Together." > I'm hoping desperately that Ace has added the single > as a bonus track. Does anyone know? Yes, according to the web page the CD includes "Baby Let's Stick Together." http://www.spectropop.com/go2/dion.html > "Baby Let's Stick Together" is an amazing track, all > vocals and drums up front, with (I think) fuzz and alto > sax texturing the wall of echo way down in the mix. > Quite an atypical Spector production for its or any > other time, lacking strings and the funereal pace of > almost all the other Spector tracks of the period. I smiled when I read that, David, because "funereal pace" nicely sums up Spector's 70s style. Could a song like Born To Be With You be performed any slower? You gotta wonder why everything had to be sooooo laid back. Take Lennon's Be My Baby for example. I think the Dion album is helpful in an attempt to understand what happened to the post-Philles Wall of Sound. As multitrack recording became commonplace, overdubs and "punch-ins" changed the way performances were recorded and mixed. Isolation of individual tracks became the norm and Phil's Wall of Sound approach did not seem to be adapt well to these changes. My conclusion (at least this week) is that Spector's deliberate, slow arrangements and dense multitracked productions of this era were (a) out of touch with contemporary styles, (b) more glossy and smooth, yet less effective, than his recordings of Gold Star era and even the Apple era. So while it may be argued that River Deep, Mountain High deserved to be a worldwide smash, I don't believe the same can be said for, e.g., "A Woman's Story" by Cher. That being said, to a Spector fan, these 70s Spector recordings are essential as part of the whole picture. One other thing that always seemed peculiar about the Dion album was thqt it was never issued in the United States. The above-referenced web page says: > Dion had been signed to Warner Brothers since 1969 and > had delivered six albums when a collaboration with a > label mate was suggested. Phil Spector had recently > been offered a label deal by Warners, with full > artistic control and the opportunity to work with any > artist on their roster. The first artist he chose was > Dion. So it seems really odd that the record was not issued in Dion's and Spector's own country - which was also where the actual Warner Spector deal originated. Anyone have a clue why? Any other opinions on the Dion album? Jamie --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:14:52 -0800 From: Carol Kaye Subject: Re: Ritchie Valens Tribute This is in reply to Randy Kosht.....Randy I don't think the Tribute is open to the public, it's only a 400-seater, but in view of who you are, let me email you privately on this. It's not known yet if Chris Montez will be able to attend, he's committed to a road tour at that time, but again, Chris is a friend of mine, and I'll help you get in touch with him. Carol Kaye --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:00:31 -0500 From: "Frank Lipsius" Subject: Van McCoy in Philly I recently spoke with Weldon McDougal III about Van McCoy's participation in the Larks, which was featured in the Best of the Larks CD that we recently put out (Jamie 4014). Weldon met Van in Washington while Weldon was in the Marines, then they remet in Philly while Van was working construction on Jocko Henderson's house and living with a cousin near Weldon. Weldon invited Van to do some music with the Larks, resulting in "Rain" and "Let's Drink a Toast" -- both on the CD. (A generous and very together person, Weldon also worked with Tommy Bell and put together Baker, Harris & Young -- the essence of the Philly Sound and MFSB -- which are on the Larks CD, as well as having Barbara Mason as lead singer on the Larks' "Dedicated to You," also on the CD.) While in Philly, Van started working with Gilda Woods with her group Brenda & the Tabulations, resulting in the cuts that became our "Right on the Tip of My Tongue" CD (Jamie 4011). It was from here in Philly, Weldon says, that Van made the contacts that eventually got him to New York and a staff position on Scepter. Frank Lipsius --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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