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Spectropop - Digest Number 125

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       Explanatory notes for the interested and informed Listener

There are 9 messages in this issue of Spectropop.

Topics in this Digest Number 125:

      1. Ritchie Valens Tribute
           From: Carol Kaye 
      2. Scott English/Laurence Weiss
           From: "Phil Chapman" 
      3. Shangri-Las current group
           From: Paul Urbahns 
      4. dream girls aka dream boy
           From: "Jack Madani"
      5. dream girls aka dream boy PT 2
           From: "Jack Madani"
      6. Murmaids
           From: Will George
      7. "Stage Door" 
           From: "Martin Roberts"
      8. tainted's tunesmith
           From: James Botticelli
      9. Re: dream girls aka dream boy
           From: "Mike Arcidiacono"


Message: 1
   Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 21:26:03 -0800
   From: Carol Kaye 
Subject: Ritchie Valens Tribute

Thought you all might like to read this historical
reflection, excuse my bandwidth to anyone not interested.

I posted this just after finally checking the Del-Fi
Ritchie Valens CD - I will be giving a speech about
Ritchie Valens at the Tribute March 25th  at the Ritchie
Valens Recreational Center, Pacoima (Earl Palmer, Bob
Keane, and Stan Ross will be there also - Chris Montez
is trying to make it - we're going to have a jam session

About the "lost tapes", some of those are actually
demos....most very much different from the final takes
-- and it's wild how bad the splices are a couple of
times, the splicing was so bad on the tape.

Anyway, here are my notes for the Ritchie Valens album
package that Bob Keane (Del-Fi) put out - good to hear
those great instrument sounds again, Bob.

Yes, that is Ritchie on ALL the guitar solos.....even
the one where it starts to "swing" in the 8/8 (a no-no
for 8/8), as I heard Ritchie "swing" in his vocal
one-time, which proves even he would do that sometimes
(the Ray Charles 8/8 "swing", sort of between straight
8ths aka boogaloo and triplet 8ths aka jazz/shuffle).,
so yes, that has to be Ritchie even on that one guitar
solo which means that Rene was on Dano all the way - he
didn't do any of the guitar solos.

One poignant thing that came back to me as I'm
deciphering who played what while listening to the
tracks (for one thing Earl Palmer's voice sure didn't
have the huskiness he eventually had/has -- that was 43
years ago!), I was a novice at playing elec. guitar
rhythm for sure....was still playing hot bebop jazz on
my Epiphone Emperor and I can tell I bottomed out on the
easier-playing Fender Elec. Jazzmaster (played too hard
on the strings was so funny...there I am playing a
Fender elec. hard) I must have bought one right away and
played.....and somehow hearing all this again, and it
really brings me to almost-tears remembering this: while
playing rhythm along with Ritchie, it came back to me
that he sort of taught me, the jazzer fumbling with the
Fender elec. guitar, he made me feel the latin-rock ways
of playing rhythm guitar....we locked wonder I
loved this guy so much aside from his good nature, and
terrific talent...he really could play guitar with that
great spirit.

Ray Johnson (who is on my "CK: 1965 Guitars" lp too,
available Chrome tape on my site) is on keyboards, Rene
Hall (who plays Fender bass on my '65 Guitars lp) is on
Dano, Earl Palmer on drums, and Ritchie Valens on elec.
rhythm wonder it was fun to play.

Someone asked one time if it was me on background
triplet rhythm on "We Belong Together" -- yes it
is....I'm playing my jazz box, the fine Epiphone Emperor
with its D'Armand pickup (was a portable PU) on it, very
distinctive sound compared to my then-new Fender
Jazzmaster elec. guitar which I hadn't quite mastered
the light technique yet on....but was getting the rhythm
together on it thanks to Ritchie's fantastic ways of
playing rhy. guitar himself....and he was good at blues
fills and soloing too.

We'd smile at each other while I was playing and it was
hard for me to remember that at first, but he had to be
playing on the date too....unlike other dates with
others who wouldn't play on their own dates. On one cut
I'm doubling Rene on a bassline on his Dano bass guitar
part....hmmmm.....shades of things to come 5 years later.

And on a couple tunes, I'm doubling the rhythm of the
already fast pace of two tunes......Earl did the same
thing on drums -- about a tempo of 162 (per beat) and
playing 16ths rhythm to it....try it, it's very fast and
can exhuast you quickly, hahaha.....but that explains
the later stamina of fast 16ths I had on bass then (only
1 string, not chords to play on the bass).

BTW, Buddy Clarke is on string bass on all the cuts as
Earl Palmer is on drums on all the cuts too (except the
solo cuts Ritchie did).

1. That's My Little Suzie -- Rene Hall on the figure,
Ritchie's guitar solo, I'm on those high notes and some
elec. rhythm.

2. In A Turkish Town -- odd times, Ritchie is on chords,
I'm not on this, but remember it being cut.

3. Come On Let's Go -- I remember this as the key of A,
and voila! Ritchie on the solo (this is 1/2-swinging, a
fact that at first I couldn't believe it was Ritchie,
tho't it was Rene....but no, Ritchie does swing it
sometimes singing-wise too, it's him), I'm on rhy. guitar.

4. Donna -- Ritchie is playing the guitar fills, Rene
Hall is not on this one, has a lot of studio reverb on
this one, I'm on rhy.

5. Boney Maronie -- Rene is on Dano, Ritchie on elec.
guitar - solo, and I'm playing low rhythm bottomy line,
digging in on this one....Ritchie playing some rhy. too.

6. Ooh My Head -- Ritchie on solo guitar, but rhythm
somehow was dropped during his solo, am playing fast
rhythm along w/Earl.

7. La Bamba -- Ritchie on solos/fills, I'm on open string
chord rhy. on Fender guitar, Ray Johnson on piano. Don't
know who is on percussion.

8. Bluebirds Over The Mountain -- Rene on Dano, Ritchie
on the rest, I'm not on this one.

9. Hi-Tone -- a good rocker ala Jerry Lee Lewis, Ritchie
on elec. guitar, I'm on acoustic rhythm. 

10. Framed -- I can remember this odd-bar riff thing (see?
it pays to have a pencil to write things down! :-) I did
the elec. guitar riff on this one, only 2 guitars -
Ritchie did the rest. 

11. We Belong Together -- Rene on Dano, I'm on the
Epiphone Emperor w/D'Armand barely on. 

12. Dooby Dooby Wah -- Listen for the bad splice after
the guitar solo. This is probably the only one I'd say is
Rene Hall on the guitar solo (spliced in too), don't
think Ritchie is playing on this one......I'm on the Elec.
Fender fast doubling rhythm on this. 

13. Stay Beside Me -- Ritchie on tremolo 1/2-note chords
all the way, I'm on Epiphone elec. rhythm. 

14. Cry Cry Cry -- Pretty sure it's Ritchie playing the
figure on the low guitar, and I'm on rhy. guitar (Rene
not on this). Ritchie could have been a FINE bass player
with that wicked right picking hand of his......surprised
me on this one. Rene Hall is on the demo of this playing
that part and Ritchie sounded better! 

15. Big Baby Blues - Ritchie on guitar solo -- Rene on
Dano triad bass line, I'm on Epiphone elec. rhythm. Buddy
Clarke is sounding very soulful on string bass on this

16. Paddi-Wack Song -- Ritchie is on solo guitar - Rene
on Dano, I'm on Epiphone rhy. doubletime guitar Ritchie
is doign some great singing ala Great Balls Of Fire on
this one. 

17. My Darling Is Gone -- Just Ritchie on this
one....very sad, so much feeling he puts into this one,
singing and playing rhy. guitar alone. 

18. Hurry Up -- Ritchie is on Elec. Guitar rhy. on this
one, Rene on Dano - I'm on fast rhythm on the Fender elec.
8th, 02 16ths type of rhythm, Ritchie is on rhythm with me

19. Little Girl -- There's a bad splice just before the
key change on this one...pretty wild to hear those
imperfections again, love it. Rene is playing Dano and
I'm doubling his bass part on Fender elec. guitar - fun
to play basslines! Piano is playing triplet rhythm on
this one oddly enough, a good idea. 

20. Now You're Gone -- Ritchie is alone here, singing and

21. Fast Freight -- Buddy Clarke is on string bass on
this one, Rene on Dano, Ritchie on solo guitar on this
one. I'm not on this. 

22. Ritchie's Blues -- Ritchie on guitar, Buddy on string
bass, there's congas and drums on this too, that's it. 

23. Rockin' All Night -- Ritchie alone playing and

24. Cry Cry Cry -- this has got to be the demo (is on the
"lost tapes thing" too), it's not the same track at all
as Track 14, very different instrumentation, different
take. Has string bass, drums and 1 guitar, claves and

25. That's My Little Suzie -- Ritchie and myself on
rhythm guitars (Epiphone), Ritchie on the solo, and the
low guitar figure. 

26. La Bamba See #7

As I stated above, it's hitting me how much I got from
Ritchie for the special way he grooved on guitar....
but I do remember as I mentally made the transition from
live jazz where my name was beginning to be known for,
to the studio work...both from loving the Sam Cooke
dates where I played lead guitar which I was accustomed
to in bebop matter what any book about Sam
Cooke says...I couldn't play good rock/funky rhythm
guitar at all until apparently the Ritchie Valens
things.....and I do remember that the Ritchie Valens
dates sort of sealed my feelings of "yes, this will be
fun, and good - I can do this and be happy
musically" was with big trepidation that I ever
started studio work in the first place, surely not
wanting to leave jazz....but this was real music.   So
please view this as a "jazzer" trying to play rock-soul
rhythms for the first time (practically), and "liking it"!

Ritchie was not only an unusually fine singer with
feeling (his voice was almost like a horn player), but
also could play fine rhythm, solo blues-rock-funky
guitar.....and made you feel special to be around him.
He'll always be in my heart. And his was the exact fiery
beautiful spirit that helped launch the decade of the
60s he didn't die.  

Carol Kaye

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 2
   Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 10:19:52 -0000
   From: "Phil Chapman"
Subject: Scott English/Laurence Weiss

Lindsay Martin wrote:

> I once became mildly obsessed with this songwriting
> credit, especially when it appeared in the form
> "Weiss-English"

...that's interesting, a quick search at
lists Laurence Weiss as the sole writer of Ruby & The
Romantics' "Your Baby Doesn't Love You Anymore"

Where is it listed as "Weiss-English"? I only have the UK
45 - does that mean there's a stereo version somewhere??

Re: Scott English - Of the two incarnations I much prefer
"Brandy", I remember reading at the time that he
(co)wrote the song (with Richard Kerr) about sending his
dog to kennels, quarantine, or something like that - any
confirmations on that one?

You mention Lynn Randell's "Ciao Baby" - I'd always
assumed this was an American recording, as it is arr. &
cond. by Herb Bernstein, the flip is a Bob Crewe/Gary
Knight composition. The Toys also released a version at
the same time.

One other English/Weiss composition of note is "When Love
Slips Away" - I have this by the much underrated Dee Dee
Warwick, and Margo & The Marvettes - don't know which, if
any, is the original, nice song though.


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 3
   Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:48:21 EST
   From: Paul Urbahns 
Subject: Shangri-Las current group

> Betty Weiss is the only original Shang who performs
> regularly with the group that now makes appearances as
> the Shangri-Las. Also in that group is Betty's daughter,
> who does a very good job as lead singer, and one other
> girl.

I'm pretty sure that's who was at the Kentucky State
fair a couple of years ago. Mary may have been with
them because I was under the impression it was two
Shangri-Las and a daughter. but could be wrong, they
talked fairly fast and bad sound system (outdoors).
Great show!

Paul Urbahns

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 4
   Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 10:40:18 -0500
   From: "Jack Madani"
Subject: dream girls aka dream boy

>I had never heard of the "Dream Girls" reissue but
>it is similar to the "Touch the Wall of Sound" 2
>disc reissue, in that it duplicates on 2 CDs the
>three volume set of the same name originally
>released on M&M in Japan.

Yes, that is what it would be.  A kind soul sent me a
scan of the newer Dream Girls reissue songlist, and it
does indeed match what is on the earlier Dream Boy series.
And it is indeed just like the Touch The Wall of Sound
reissue:  originally 3 cd's with 20 songs apiece, the
reissue is now 2 cd's with 30 songs apiece.  Just the
sort of thing to warm this 5th grade math teacher's heart.
>>It sports a disgustingly sexist cover.
>Hmmm. I haven't seen the Dream Girls cover but the
>Dream Boy covers each sport a really cute
>illustration a "Dream Girl" against a pastel striped
>background. You can see them on the above-referenced
>web page. The illustration for Volume 3 can be seen in
>detail on the same page.

You're both right.  The original Dream Boy series has
these marvelously sweet renderings of pattyduke/
shelleyfabares/sallyfield sorts of girls, as innocent as
they can be (albeit rendered in a style that owes a
disconcertingly lot to Varga--I hope you get what I mean
when you see it).

On the other hand, the newer Dream Girls cover, if I can
go by the b&w scan I gratefully received, features a much
trashier sort of chick in a daisy duke sort of outfit,
cuddled up uncomfortably close to a six foot tall candy
bar.  Hope I remembered this right.

>> Miss Cathy Brasher wrote the songs she
>> recorded and they're well worth hearing. 

>Yes. Not on this set is another Cathy Brasher song
>called "He Told Me He Loved Me" which is a direct
>rip off of "Then He Kissed Me," right down to the
>guitar lick. If anyone hasn't heard it it is an absolute
>must hear! Of the four or so tracks I've heard by
>Cathy Brasher, all are outstanding. Ray Pohlman
>arranged many of her records apparently.

I especially like "Too Late To Be Lovers" which sports a
REALLY tight backing vocal group who just tear through
some quick shoo be doo's.  Their harmony is so tight,
they sound like the Angels.

Haven't yet heard "He Told Me He Loved Me," though.

I have really enjoyed the Dream Boy cd's.  There's a ton
of good stuff packed onto those three--now TWO, what a
bargain!--discs.  "Miss" Cathy Brasher (always reminds me
of MISTER Daniel Loomis, or MISSUS Norman Main); Connie
Stevens' "Lost In Wonderland," the Cannon Sisters'
"Second Best" (again, super tight backing harmonies going
"ooh" but with sort of an umlaut over the o, very
Pittsburgh sounding accent), Piccola Pupa singing "Break
Away" (she was the only girl in the AIP flick Ghost In
The Invisible Bikini who wasn't wearing babydoll pj's),
Dean Cannon's "When Love Goes Wrong", Ann-Margret's "Hey
Little Star."

I just noticed, all three Dream Boy cd's lead off with a
Miss Cathy Brasher track.


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 5
   Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 10:47:27 -0500
   From: "Jack Madani" 
Subject: dream girls aka dream boy PT 2

Where to find the Dream Girls cd?  Well, there's always, 
but bless 'em, while they're not actually actively
hostile, neither are they very friendly either.  I've
bought a lot of things from them over the years, though,
and I mostly haven't had to wait too long to get stuff. 
I've heard stories about folks emailing or faxing orders
to them and not hearing another word for months, and then
out of a clear blue sky here comes a shipment in the mail.
Personally, I've always telephoned in my order so I would
know exactly what is and what is not in stock.

But here's another source:  Discollector Music Group.

Pretty good selection of stuff, although their catalog
isn't a match for midnightrecords's (but then, whose is).
The only problem is that Discollector's cataloging system
is pretty eccentric, based on chronology of when they got
stuff in rather than musical style or alphabetical by
artist.  Still, they're turning out to be a pretty darn
good alternative to midnightrecords.

By the way......

Would anybody be able to help me get a color scan of the
artwork for Dream Boy Volume 1 (M&M CD-1002)?


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 6
   Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:07:45 EST
   From: Will George
Subject: Murmaids

I don't know much about the Murmaids. I have one song by
them called Do Whatcha Do (I think that's the title)
that also features Jackie DeShannon singing with them (I
believe it is credited to Jackie DeShannon and the
Murmaids). Does anyone know how this came about?

Will George

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 7
   Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 21:12:39 -0000
   From: "Martin Roberts"
Subject: "Stage Door" 

Thanks Ian,

You had me rummaging through my record boxes. Knew I had
a good version of "Stage Door" couldn't remember by who
my copy by Peter James is a UK demo so sadly no
producer/arranger credits but it does sound like
Nitzsche's work, not one of his best though, do feel
that the song deserved more. The B-side is perhaps a
better listen, not  the Dixie Cups song but written by
Andrew Oldham.  

Another 45 by Peter James "Opportunity" Reprise 0460
pr.Don Lanier arr. Jimmy Bowen wr. Joyner-Harshman-Marascalo
is a very slight r write of "Come A Little Bit Closer"
quite good, if it had been a hit think they''d have had
a job keeping the royalities away from Boyce & Hart!

Re. The Grads/Sandpipers, worthwhile flipping
"Guantanamera" for the B-side "What Makes You Dream
Pretty Girl" a 'soft' Spector influence.  If you like
'good looking' records, worth buying The Grads 1st 45
"Once Again" from '62, a triple W. wonderful label
Valiant 6023, wonderful writers DeVorzon-Chandler &
wonderful arranger Perry Botkin Jr, Music's too wimpy
though. But 3 out of 4 ain't bad!

Martin Roberts

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 8
   Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:26:39 EST
   From: James Botticelli 
Subject: tainted's tunesmith

In a message dated 3/10/1 3:52:23 AM, you wrote:

>who 1st did "Tainted Love"?

Gloria Jones RIP (who was married to the guy 
who sang Bang A Gong)


Message: 9
   Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 22:26:09 -0500
   From: "Mike Arcidiacono" 
Subject: Re: dream girls aka dream boy

"Jack Madani" wrote:

> Where to find the Dream Girls cd?  Well, there's always
> but bless 'em, while they're not actually actively
> hostile, neither are they very friendly either.

Jack, I live near Midnight (they have a retail store) and
believe me, they are no better in person. They act like
they are doing you a favor when you go in there to buy. 
I've given most of my business to others because of this.
Mike Hawkinsin at Discollector is the opposite. He's a
very nice guy, knows his stock and will help you find
whatever you need.

> >I had never heard of the "Dream Girls" reissue but
> >it is similar to the "Touch the Wall of Sound" 

Does anybody know where I can order this?



--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

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