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Spectropop - Digest Number 84

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______________        S  P  E  C  T  R  O  P  O  P        ______________
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                 A lifetime of pure listening enjoyment

There are 10 messages in this issue of Spectropop.

Topics in this Digest Number 84:

      1. Spector Soundalikes
           From: "Jim Crescitelli" 
      2. Darlene's girlfriends
           From: Paul Woods 
      3. re: soundalikes
           From: "Jack Madani" 
      4. Ronnie has a Web site!
           From: "Spector Collector" 
      5. Re: Bing Crosby's White Christmas
           From: Andrew Hickey 
      6. Leader of the Pack Ellie Greenwich story
           From: Jill 
      7. Credit where credit is due
           From: "Kingsley" 
      8. lawsuits - rights - credits
           From: "Jamie LePage" 
      9. BB recordings
           From: Andrew Hickey 
     10. Re: Spector Soundalikes
           From: Frank 


Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 10:30:58 EST
   From: "Jim Crescitelli" 
Subject: Spector Soundalikes

In response to Hans'  "What does a 'Spector soundalike'
sound like?? It's hard to define." Interesting query! I
never gave it much thought, but always sorta 'knew' when
a producer with a bunch of girls was trying to emulate
Spector's chart-topping $ucce$$. Notice I say "bunch of
girls--" that's because, automatically to me at least,
Spector soundalikes seem to be concentrated in 1963-1964.
For the record,  perfect soundalikes to me would be Alder
Ray's two supersonic cuts (NOT the stereo versions);
Dorothy Berry's "You're So Fine;" Merry Clayton's "Usher
Boy." Get the picture? Now that I am thinking about it
consciously, it seems that my favorite soundalikes seem
to combine the gritty oomph of "Da Doo Ron Ron" with the
fervor of "A Fine Fine Boy." By the way, those Philately
/ Phil Spector Appreciation Society newsletters are
motherlodes of information and research... those guys
did a fantastic job of research, and definitely laid the
groundwork for today's advanced collectors' research.
Mick Patrick, my hat is off to you" say hello to Carole
and the rest of the gang up there! Best... 

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 16:01:23 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
   From: Paul Woods 
Subject: Darlene's girlfriends


Hans Ket's list of Spector Soundalikes which he kindly
forwarded (Thanks, Hans!) includes a Darlene Love song
"Girlfriends".  I never heard of this one.  Has anyone
got any more information about it, please?



--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 3
   Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:26:06 -0500
   From: "Jack Madani" 
Subject: re: soundalikes

spectropop writes:
>What does a "Spector 
>soundalike" sound like??

It's interesting you mention this, Hans, because Jamie
LePage and I years ago used to discuss this topic--only,
our name for them were "faux Spector."  It's interesting
how difficult it seemed to become to re-create the
classic Gold Star Wall Of Sound once the sixties ended.


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:45:00 -0000
   From: "Spector Collector" 
Subject: Ronnie has a Web site!

That's right: FINALLY the bad girl of rock has her very
own, and pretty darn spiffy, home on the Internet! Check

for well-organized information, rare pix, news,
stories, and yes, even merchandise: her oft-bootlegged
but never-before-commercially-available
Betrock/Crenshaw sessions are for sale there as a CD
EP for $11. I'm thrilled to see that listed first
among the links is our own John Rausch's dynamite
Ronnie/Ronettes site. (Yay, John!) Now let's hope that
care is taken to keep Ronnie's site current; i.e. that
the stuff under "news" really is news. This was the
downfall of Darlene Love's site for a long time, in
that it listed "upcoming" appearances a year and a
half after they had happened, with no new additions.
However, I'm happy to report that it seems to be
updated regularly now (it appears that she has a new
manager). Note that she's been chosen as the national
spokesperson for America Cares, a "buckle up" seat
belt campaign; check out

And finally, look who has a site under construction at
long last:

Life is good!
David A. Young

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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 14:36:59 -0800 (PST)
   From: Andrew Hickey 
Subject: Re: Bing Crosby's White Christmas

> One book I have claims, DECCA pressed so many records
> of White Christmas (the 1942 version) that they
> damaged the master and Crosby had to rerecord the
> song in 1947. That would make sense and mean that
> Rhino probably used the 1947 version and missed on
> the date. Also understand he rerecorded the song for
> DECCA about 1955.

That sort of thing happened a lot (it happened twice
with O For The Wings Of A Dove). Quite probably though
Rhino mastered from a 78 rather than the actual
master. If you look hard enough to find a good copy, a
78 will actually have better sound than the master it
was pressed from, as the masters wore out, where they
weren't destroyed altogether. The 55 recording would
be, at a guess, for the film White Christmas, which
would presumably have needed a new recording. I do
know that Crosby had a clause in his contract with
Decca forbidding him ever to record White Christmas
for any other company...

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Message: 6
   Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 03:12:18 -0000
   From: Jill 
Subject: Leader of the Pack Ellie Greenwich story


I was watching a tape I had of Leader of the
Pack and I really love the song rock of rages. I
was wondering if anyone knew where to find the
lyrics or an mp3 of it.

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 7
   Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 13:07:12 -0000
   From: "Kingsley" 
Subject: Credit where credit is due

Interesting to read Alan Zweig's comments on credits - my
use of the word artists would certainly include the
musicians, credited or otherwise, and indeed the
producers, engineers, writers, etc - all the creative
people who have given me and all of us endless hours of
listening pleasure. OK, maybe we deserve some credit
ourselves for buying records and sticking with the
various musical genres we love (in my case since 1961),
but to my way of thinking this does not equate to the
talents of the creators. Perhaps now some/many of us work
within the overall umbrella of the music industry (this
list seems to contain writers, producers, radio, TV
people etc) and no doubt many are extremely talented
people. Whatever I personally do or achieve now is helped
with a huge dose of hindsight, so I am full of admiration
for everyone who contributed to the wonderful world of
sixties pop. So what if some were just along for the ride,
or simply struck lucky. Its all part of the whole. I love
writing about it all, but I would still give a lot to
have a singing voice or real mastery of an instrument or
any part of recording wizardry aside from the hifi!  Ah
well - each to their own I guess..

The sun's just come out (a cause for celebration in the
UK) so all is well

Kingsley Abbott

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 07:13:27 -0000
   From: "Jamie LePage" 
Subject: lawsuits - rights - credits

Kingsley wrote:

> although I do take 
>Carol's point as to the rights of the artists, without 
>whose efforts and talents none of us would be writing to
>this list.

Alan asked:

> Do you really believe that?

I too was a bit puzzled by Kingsley's comment, but for
a different reason. I didn't think Carol alluded to the
rights of artists at all. She mentioned alleged illegal
use of the masters - that is an alleged violation of
*owner's* rights. Typically artists do not have the
rights to sell or license their recordings. Ownership
nearly always belongs to the record company.

Alan commented:

> most people DON'T think about the session musicians...

Yeah, that's generally true, but this group cares
dearly about them. Besides, "giving credit where due"
is yet a different subject (and certainly nothing to do
with the lawsuit or the rights of the artist).

Of course, the rights of artists and credit where due
are both valid issues and interesting ones at that, but
they seem to have distracted the thread away from the
issue Carol originally brought up: the Beach Boys'
allegation that Deck's ownership of the the Hite Morgan
masters is invalid, thusly Deck's sale (and license to
Surf's Up) of the masters is illegal.

Why should we care? Because the outcome affects those of
us interested in seeing continued expansion and
commercial distribution of vintage recordings. For Pet
Sounds, Mike Love etc. contractually had artist "approval
rights" and used them to delay the Pet Sounds box for 18
months so new liner notes could be written. In this
latest BB lawsuit. in the unlikely event the court
negates the original artist agreement with Hite/Deck, my
guess is we will never see a session box of the Hite
Sessions, except perhaps as a bootleg, and certainly not
as well researched and documented as the set Deck
licensed to Surf's Up - and that, friends, is the rub.
Because if the court negates the original contract that
has been in effect for nearly 40 years, takes away
ownership from Deck and gives it to the Beach Boys, we
could see a slew of similar suits by other artists
against their early labels, and the result could cause
many recordings to become indefinitely unavailable.

More from Alan:

> Let's face it. If you were a member of many of these 
> bands, you were just lucky to be along for the ride.

(insert gas station one-liner here). :-)


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 14:22:30 -0800 (PST)
   From: Andrew Hickey 
Subject: BB recordings

> Artists are continually ripped off by those who know just
> enough to figure a way to make money off of their heroes,
> who sidle right up against what might or might not be
> legal. If I were her, I'd have the same attitude about
> such entrepreneurs.

This is obviously true (and one of the few things I
like about Napster is that it means I can access songs
by bands like the Move, Small Faces etc, who aren't
paid royalties for their recordings AFAIK, without
paying unscrupulous copyright holders), but I doubt
>from what I know of Brad that making money was his
primary interest (although of course it *was* an
interest...). What has happened here is that someone
has wanted to make available to fans music that would
otherwise not be available, and has done so by legally
licensing that music from the copyright holders who,
at the time, had the undisputed rights to that music.
As a musician, I would love to see the Beach Boys
start to receive royalties from these tracks as a
result of this case (although the recordings will fall
out of copyright altogether within 10 years or so...),
but I also hope that Brad at least does not end up out
of pocket or worse as a result of this, as I honestly
believe from what has been made public that he has
acted legally with decent intentions...

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 10
   Date: Fri, 05 Jan 01 09:57:27 +0100
   From: Frank 
Subject: Re: Spector Soundalikes

>In response to Hans'  "What does a 'Spector soundalike'
>sound like?? It's hard to define." Interesting query! 

>For the record,  perfect soundalikes to me would be Alder
>Ray's two supersonic cuts (NOT the stereo versions);
>Dorothy Berry's "You're So Fine;" Merry Clayton's "Usher
>Boy." Get the picture? Now that I am thinking about it
>consciously, it seems that my favorite soundalikes seem
>to combine the gritty oomph of "Da Doo Ron Ron" with the
>fervor of "A Fine Fine Boy." By the way, those Philately
>/ Phil Spector Appreciation Society newsletters are
>motherlodes of information and research...

No doubt about the Philately magazines. I treasure those
just as much as my mint stereo copy of the Ronettes LP.

As for Spector soundalikes, there is one track I
particularly like and which I have never seen mentioned
anywhere it is the version of Clapton's "LAYLA" as sung
by Ronny Charles. An amazing wall of sound production
completely gone overboard.


--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

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