http://www.spectropop.com ________________________________________________________________________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ S P E C T R O P O P ______________ ______________ ______________ ________________________________________________________________________ A lifetime of pure listening enjoyment ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 10 messages in this issue of Spectropop. Topics in this Digest Number 84: 1. Spector Soundalikes From: "Jim Crescitelli" 2. Darlene's girlfriends From: Paul Woods 3. re: soundalikes From: "Jack Madani" 4. Ronnie has a Web site! From: "Spector Collector" 5. Re: Bing Crosby's White Christmas From: Andrew Hickey 6. Leader of the Pack Ellie Greenwich story From: Jill 7. Credit where credit is due From: "Kingsley" 8. lawsuits - rights - credits From: "Jamie LePage" 9. BB recordings From: Andrew Hickey 10. Re: Spector Soundalikes From: Frank ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 10:30:58 EST From: "Jim Crescitelli" Subject: Spector Soundalikes In response to Hans' "What does a 'Spector soundalike' sound like?? It's hard to define." Interesting query! I never gave it much thought, but always sorta 'knew' when a producer with a bunch of girls was trying to emulate Spector's chart-topping $ucce$$. Notice I say "bunch of girls--" that's because, automatically to me at least, Spector soundalikes seem to be concentrated in 1963-1964. For the record, perfect soundalikes to me would be Alder Ray's two supersonic cuts (NOT the stereo versions); Dorothy Berry's "You're So Fine;" Merry Clayton's "Usher Boy." Get the picture? Now that I am thinking about it consciously, it seems that my favorite soundalikes seem to combine the gritty oomph of "Da Doo Ron Ron" with the fervor of "A Fine Fine Boy." By the way, those Philately / Phil Spector Appreciation Society newsletters are motherlodes of information and research... those guys did a fantastic job of research, and definitely laid the groundwork for today's advanced collectors' research. Mick Patrick, my hat is off to you" say hello to Carole and the rest of the gang up there! Best... Jimmy --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 16:01:23 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: Paul Woods Subject: Darlene's girlfriends Hi, Hans Ket's list of Spector Soundalikes which he kindly forwarded (Thanks, Hans!) includes a Darlene Love song "Girlfriends". I never heard of this one. Has anyone got any more information about it, please? Best, Paul --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:26:06 -0500 From: "Jack Madani" Subject: re: soundalikes spectropop writes: >What does a "Spector >soundalike" sound like?? It's interesting you mention this, Hans, because Jamie LePage and I years ago used to discuss this topic--only, our name for them were "faux Spector." It's interesting how difficult it seemed to become to re-create the classic Gold Star Wall Of Sound once the sixties ended. jack --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:45:00 -0000 From: "Spector Collector" Subject: Ronnie has a Web site! That's right: FINALLY the bad girl of rock has her very own, and pretty darn spiffy, home on the Internet! Check out http://www.ronniespector.com/ for well-organized information, rare pix, news, stories, and yes, even merchandise: her oft-bootlegged but never-before-commercially-available Betrock/Crenshaw sessions are for sale there as a CD EP for $11. I'm thrilled to see that listed first among the links is our own John Rausch's dynamite Ronnie/Ronettes site. (Yay, John!) Now let's hope that care is taken to keep Ronnie's site current; i.e. that the stuff under "news" really is news. This was the downfall of Darlene Love's site for a long time, in that it listed "upcoming" appearances a year and a half after they had happened, with no new additions. However, I'm happy to report that it seems to be updated regularly now (it appears that she has a new manager). Note that she's been chosen as the national spokesperson for America Cares, a "buckle up" seat belt campaign; check out http://darlenelove.com/ And finally, look who has a site under construction at long last: http://philspector.com/ Life is good! David A. Young --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 14:36:59 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Hickey Subject: Re: Bing Crosby's White Christmas > One book I have claims, DECCA pressed so many records > of White Christmas (the 1942 version) that they > damaged the master and Crosby had to rerecord the > song in 1947. That would make sense and mean that > Rhino probably used the 1947 version and missed on > the date. Also understand he rerecorded the song for > DECCA about 1955. That sort of thing happened a lot (it happened twice with O For The Wings Of A Dove). Quite probably though Rhino mastered from a 78 rather than the actual master. If you look hard enough to find a good copy, a 78 will actually have better sound than the master it was pressed from, as the masters wore out, where they weren't destroyed altogether. The 55 recording would be, at a guess, for the film White Christmas, which would presumably have needed a new recording. I do know that Crosby had a clause in his contract with Decca forbidding him ever to record White Christmas for any other company... --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 03:12:18 -0000 From: Jill Subject: Leader of the Pack Ellie Greenwich story hey, I was watching a tape I had of Leader of the Pack and I really love the song rock of rages. I was wondering if anyone knew where to find the lyrics or an mp3 of it. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 13:07:12 -0000 From: "Kingsley" Subject: Credit where credit is due Interesting to read Alan Zweig's comments on credits - my use of the word artists would certainly include the musicians, credited or otherwise, and indeed the producers, engineers, writers, etc - all the creative people who have given me and all of us endless hours of listening pleasure. OK, maybe we deserve some credit ourselves for buying records and sticking with the various musical genres we love (in my case since 1961), but to my way of thinking this does not equate to the talents of the creators. Perhaps now some/many of us work within the overall umbrella of the music industry (this list seems to contain writers, producers, radio, TV people etc) and no doubt many are extremely talented people. Whatever I personally do or achieve now is helped with a huge dose of hindsight, so I am full of admiration for everyone who contributed to the wonderful world of sixties pop. So what if some were just along for the ride, or simply struck lucky. Its all part of the whole. I love writing about it all, but I would still give a lot to have a singing voice or real mastery of an instrument or any part of recording wizardry aside from the hifi! Ah well - each to their own I guess.. The sun's just come out (a cause for celebration in the UK) so all is well Kingsley Abbott --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 07:13:27 -0000 From: "Jamie LePage" Subject: lawsuits - rights - credits Kingsley wrote: > although I do take >Carol's point as to the rights of the artists, without >whose efforts and talents none of us would be writing to >this list. Alan asked: > Do you really believe that? I too was a bit puzzled by Kingsley's comment, but for a different reason. I didn't think Carol alluded to the rights of artists at all. She mentioned alleged illegal use of the masters - that is an alleged violation of *owner's* rights. Typically artists do not have the rights to sell or license their recordings. Ownership nearly always belongs to the record company. Alan commented: > most people DON'T think about the session musicians... Yeah, that's generally true, but this group cares dearly about them. Besides, "giving credit where due" is yet a different subject (and certainly nothing to do with the lawsuit or the rights of the artist). Of course, the rights of artists and credit where due are both valid issues and interesting ones at that, but they seem to have distracted the thread away from the issue Carol originally brought up: the Beach Boys' allegation that Deck's ownership of the the Hite Morgan masters is invalid, thusly Deck's sale (and license to Surf's Up) of the masters is illegal. Why should we care? Because the outcome affects those of us interested in seeing continued expansion and commercial distribution of vintage recordings. For Pet Sounds, Mike Love etc. contractually had artist "approval rights" and used them to delay the Pet Sounds box for 18 months so new liner notes could be written. In this latest BB lawsuit. in the unlikely event the court negates the original artist agreement with Hite/Deck, my guess is we will never see a session box of the Hite Sessions, except perhaps as a bootleg, and certainly not as well researched and documented as the set Deck licensed to Surf's Up - and that, friends, is the rub. Because if the court negates the original contract that has been in effect for nearly 40 years, takes away ownership from Deck and gives it to the Beach Boys, we could see a slew of similar suits by other artists against their early labels, and the result could cause many recordings to become indefinitely unavailable. More from Alan: > Let's face it. If you were a member of many of these > bands, you were just lucky to be along for the ride. (insert gas station one-liner here). :-) Jamie --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 14:22:30 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Hickey Subject: BB recordings > Artists are continually ripped off by those who know just > enough to figure a way to make money off of their heroes, > who sidle right up against what might or might not be > legal. If I were her, I'd have the same attitude about > such entrepreneurs. This is obviously true (and one of the few things I like about Napster is that it means I can access songs by bands like the Move, Small Faces etc, who aren't paid royalties for their recordings AFAIK, without paying unscrupulous copyright holders), but I doubt >from what I know of Brad that making money was his primary interest (although of course it *was* an interest...). What has happened here is that someone has wanted to make available to fans music that would otherwise not be available, and has done so by legally licensing that music from the copyright holders who, at the time, had the undisputed rights to that music. As a musician, I would love to see the Beach Boys start to receive royalties from these tracks as a result of this case (although the recordings will fall out of copyright altogether within 10 years or so...), but I also hope that Brad at least does not end up out of pocket or worse as a result of this, as I honestly believe from what has been made public that he has acted legally with decent intentions... --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 01 09:57:27 +0100 From: Frank Subject: Re: Spector Soundalikes >In response to Hans' "What does a 'Spector soundalike' >sound like?? It's hard to define." Interesting query! >For the record, perfect soundalikes to me would be Alder >Ray's two supersonic cuts (NOT the stereo versions); >Dorothy Berry's "You're So Fine;" Merry Clayton's "Usher >Boy." Get the picture? Now that I am thinking about it >consciously, it seems that my favorite soundalikes seem >to combine the gritty oomph of "Da Doo Ron Ron" with the >fervor of "A Fine Fine Boy." By the way, those Philately >/ Phil Spector Appreciation Society newsletters are >motherlodes of information and research... No doubt about the Philately magazines. I treasure those just as much as my mint stereo copy of the Ronettes LP. As for Spector soundalikes, there is one track I particularly like and which I have never seen mentioned anywhere it is the version of Clapton's "LAYLA" as sung by Ronny Charles. An amazing wall of sound production completely gone overboard. Frank --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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