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Spectropop - Digest Number 76


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There are 9 messages in this issue of Spectropop.

Topics in this Digest Number 76:

      1. Chad Stuart - Producer
           From: "Randy M. Kosht" 
      2. Re: chad and jeremy
           From: Andrew Hickey 
      3. Chad and Jeremy
           From: Jamie LePage 
      4. Shel Talmy
           From: "Joseph Scott" 
      5. Re: Mortimer
           From: "Spector Collector" 
      6. Boston 6T's Pop
           From: James Botticelli 
      7. Question for Ms. Kaye
           From: Jason Penick 
      8. Backatcha
           From: "David Feldman" 
      9. Why I appreciated the studio work so much.
           From: Carol Kaye 


Message: 1
   Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:28:33 -0800
   From: "Randy M. Kosht" 
Subject: Chad Stuart - Producer

In reference to the Chad and Jeremy discussion, Chad
went on to produce for other artists.  I have a
wonderful album, "Gift of Song," by Judith Durham,
former lead singer of the Seekers, that was produced by
Chad Stuart for Almo Productions and released on A&M in
1970 (SP 4240).  It featured compositions by Harry
Nilsson and Mason Williams, among others.  She recorded
a second one for A&M UK that never came out stateside;
A&M UK later pulled tracks from both albums for a budget
re-issue on their Mayfair label, which I have.


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Message: 2
   Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:05:28 -0800 (PST)
   From: Andrew Hickey 
Subject: Re: chad and jeremy

> PS Great to see Jim Gordon, a fantastic musician,
> finally getting some credit on this list. Despite the
> personal tragedy that scarred his reputation, he made
> a very important contribution to music. He in fact
> double drummed with Hal Blaine on many famous dates
> too, if I'm not mistaken.

Absolutely. Those who are interested in Jim Gordon
might want to check this month's MOJO, which has a bit
about him in the article on Derek And The Dominoes
(and another article as well IIRC...)

Buy the new Stealth Munchkin album

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Message: 3
   Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:40:11 +0900
   From: Jamie LePage 
Subject: Chad and Jeremy

Chad and Jeremy...

OK, so we've got Shel Talmy going to England, and with
Joe Meek failing to get chart hits in his later days,
independent US producers are suddenly all the rage in
Britain. Mark Wirtz also comes to mind as an expat
producer who made good with British bands. I didn't
realize Talmy did the early C&J sides, and I have always
associated him with the Who, Creation, Kinks kind of
sound. According to AMG, "Talmy cut his teeth in the
record business as an engineer in L.A. in the early
1960s. In 1962 he turned a European vacation into a job
in Britain when he played acetates of Beach Boys and Lou
Rawls songs to Dick Rowe of Decca Records, claiming them
as his own productions (although they weren't)."

That's a pretty amazing story! Anyone know where Talmy
worked in LA? Maybe at the tower? (Both artists
namechecked were on Capitol.)

So Talmy does the early sides in UK, but somehow Chad
and Jeremy end up at Columbia under the guidance of
decidedly LA based Gary Usher. They make cameo
appearances on a few LA produced sit-coms. So my
question is, how is it that they ended up in LA for
these shows and their work with Usher? I assume they
relocated to LA at some point, obviously this would have
been around the time they switched labels. How and why?

All this talk has made me want to buy a few C&J CDs, and
checking around I thought the following would be good.
Opinions, please...

**Very Best of Chad & Jeremy on Varese 
(concentrates on the World Artists sides from 1964-1965,
including all of the hit singles plus four songs from
1965-1966 Columbia singles)

**The Ark Sony (Japan) SRCS-009269

**Painted Dayglo Smile Is this still in print? Any 
further comments on this comp?

About Before and After, although I am familiar with the
C&J version, the Fleetwoods version too is very, very good,
and it seems odd that C&J had the hit rather than the
Fleetwoods.A great song written by Van McCoy, I believe
the Fleetwoods recorded it first. 

Were there any Chad or Jeremy solo efforts? If so, are 
they any good?

Very interesting topic. 

All the best,


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Message: 4
   Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:21:27 -0700
   From: "Joseph Scott" 
Subject: Shel Talmy

Hi all,

Shel Talmy was one the most talented record producers
in the U.K. e.g., listen to the production on the
Who's first album, produced by Talmy, back to back
with the production on the Who's second album, not
produced by Talmy. Talmy knew how to make a punchy
radio hit, and how.

Talmy also had his own distinctive sound, like Meek or
Spector (and a great sound it was). e.g,. compare the
sound of the Creation to early Who.

Groups putting Talmy down later -- imho that would be
about things like sour grapes over financial deals,
lawsuits, etc. Production-wise, they have a hell of a
lot to thank him for.

I think if you cornered Pete Townshend in a candid
moment he'd admit that the early Who hits sounded a
_ton_ like the early Kinks hits (which Townshend
adored) in large part because of Talmy's expertise and
distinctive approach.

Best wishes,

Joseph Scott

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Message: 5
   Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:58:42 -0000
   From: "Spector Collector" 
Subject: Re: Mortimer

Antonio Vizcarra wrote:

>Another group who had really good harmonies, this
>time a trio not a duo, were Mortimer. I have his
>self-titled album released in 1968 and is a thrill to
>listen. I don't know if they released more records,
>singles or albums but they also met with
>dissapointing sales.

Antonio, it's good to learn a little something about
Mortimer. I have an acetate on Apple that's credited to
them; do you know anything about their having been signed
to that label? (I know that nothing was ever released by
them on Apple.)

It's an instrumental track only, and although the label
gives the title as "Two of Us," I can't imagine how it
could've been the backing to a cover version of the
Beatles tune by that name, as I don't hear any melodic
similarities. Kristofer Engelhardt's book "The Beatles
Undercover" credits Peter Asher as the producer of
Mortimer's Apple sessions, but this acetate (which came
>from Bertha Spector's estate) seems to clearly have
Phil's stamp on it. Any definitive info from list members
on any of this?


David A. Young

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Message: 6
   Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:52:57 EST
   From: James Botticelli 
Subject: Boston 6T's Pop

Its nice to see the Bosstown Sound of the Sexties
brought up here. I was there and remember the hype
very well. And make no mistake, it WAS hype. It
started with local DJ Dick Summer who, perhaps
schilling for M-G-M Records following his successful 2
hour AM Sunday night "Subway" show on WBZ, began
urging us all to "wear an 's' and spread the sound".
The 's' was supposed to be a paperclip we bent to form
said 's'. Many were called but few were chosen to make
the sound work. It even got a Time magazine story.
After all was said and done, rest assured that far
more was said than done, and there remained but a
handful of bands with record contracts, mostly on
M-G-M. I think that for this list the sound of Orpheus
best exemplifies the soft pop sound. Many of the bands
were San Francisco sound knockoffs, or had listened to
Jimi Hendrix' "Foxy Lady" a few too many times....Oh
well, thanks for the indulgence

James Botticelli
Host "Casa Nostra"
WMBR-FM, 88.1

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Message: 7
   Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:34:46 EST
   From: Jason Penick 
Subject: Question for Ms. Kaye

Just wanted to wish all the Spectropoppers a happy
holiday season!  Ms Kaye, I spoke with Merrell
Fankhauser recently, and he informed me that you were
one of the musicians who played on the track for his
late-1968 version of "Everybody's Talkin'", recorded at
Gold Star.  I was wondering if you have any remembrances
of working on this session, or with Merrell in general. 
He's a brilliant west-coast musician who's been putting
out great records from 1962 to today, yet gets very
little credit for his role in the scenes he's helped
develop (surf, folk-rock, psychedelia and many more). 
Also, I was curious about the time you spent with the
Association working on Insight Out! and Birthday with
Bones Howe... were these the only sessions you cut with
them?  How did you relate to the guys personally?


Jason Penick

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Message: 8
   Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:42:09 -0500
   From: "David Feldman" 
Subject: Backatcha

> Spectropop Group Members, an Internet Greeting Card has
> been sent to you by Spectropop Admin and is waiting for
> you at Bravenet virtual post office!.
Thanks for the gift of this mailing list and website
all year long.  Hope 2001 is a great one for all

--------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:17:24 -0800
   From: Carol Kaye 
Subject: Why I appreciated the studio work so much.

I posted this on my Message Board, and tho't some of
you might like to see this too.  Many many of our
bunch of fine studio musicians also came from very
humble beginnings and so when we all sort of came
together to record the hit records coming out of LA,
it was with so much appreciation for the money, the
prestige and not having to go on the road away from
our kids etc:

My heart always goes out to people having problems
at Christmas time... having some tough Christmases
in the past makes you appreciate the better times in
your life for sure. I remember a very hard time when
I was trying to keep the family going in Phoenix,
and was working 2 jobs, had my guitar and amp hocked
for food, and still we couldn't make it....I was so
tired I was stuttering all over the place, not being
able to talk well really has it's downers!

And there was an office party in the laundry where I
was working on Christmas Eve. Feeling blue and
exhausted, I sat on the can and just prayed...we
didn't have anything for Christmas, and not much
food either, we were sharing a bath with a drunk in
the back and wind and icy cold was sifting through
the cracked walls...I'm sort of chuckling as I write
this - sounds so melodramatic, but yes it was that
bad and worse.

Did some hard praying on the can and just as I
finished saying "Amen", the phone had rung and it
was a call for me -- 5PM, Christmas Eve - what a
strange time for someone to call. It was Reynolds
Aluminum calling (I had applied for a job there 2-3
months before, nothing), could I be ready to work
for them the day after Christmas? At twice the money
I was getting? You can't know how good that felt -
what a shock, and I borrowed some money from someone
and bought some little things to take home. To me
that was miracle. This following story happened a
lot later on in the 50s - my kids love to remember

A Christmas Story.

Seeing all these sort of teeny "toy" scooters
reminds me of when my kids found out there was no
Santa Claus, eldest daughter 7 and youngest boy was
3. BTW, They made REAL scooters back then, nice big
wheels, good strong bodies, very safe big toys that
got around great and were really fun to ride. They
weren't these current dinky ones they're charging
outrageous prices for....oh well. To the story.

My mother, my 2 kids and myself had just moved to
the Valley in 1958 from the South Bay area, and I
had been working some record dates throughout 1958,
mainly for producer Bumps Blackwell (Sam Cooke,
others) and was starting to work for other people
too. However, even with the jazz gigs at nights, the
am't of record dates was not quite enough to sustain
all 4 of us, even in the nice cheap apartment we
lived in just off of Vineland, north of 5 points,
Camarillo, Lankershim/Vineland in No. Hollywood. The
apt. is still there, the back door opening up on the
west side of Vineland, 02 blocks north of the

So I had to get a day job again to pull us through
in late 1958 and '59 -- this time at Bendix
Publications where I was the lead head technical
typist (110-115 wpm on those IBMs, getting the
top-secret manuals out, typing all those Greek
formulae etc.) and had just bought a lot of
Christmas toys about 3 days before Christmas of
'58.....It was the very first Christmas I could
afford to buy nice toys for my kids for.....believe
me, it was a very thrilling happy time to have
enough money to do that for my kids after some very
tough years since I was a child.

I had kept the new Christmas toys in the trunk of my
car, a '53 Cheve coupe which I had just bought used
(remember those? mine was yellow, a pretty car too)
and was going to wrap the presents, a big scooter
for my eldest girl, a nice wagon for my son, nice
things for my dear mother who kept care of my kids
(and had been gladly supporting her) etc., going to
wrap them Christmas Eve, 02 days away. Well, getting
up that next day, there was no car parked in back!

I called the police who checked on it, and I was
informed "your car was repossessed by a repo company
for unpaid bills"....uh-oh....and I found out my
ex-husband didn't pay the bills he was supposed to
as decreed in our divorce.

There was nothing to do - I didn't have the money
for the exorbitant bill, and I was out a car and
the gifts for my kids who loved Santa Claus and
Christmas and its meaning too, and were so excited
to get something that year.......they were such
great kids, just loving, wonderful kids (still are)
and tho' we were very poor, they had fun anyway and
we were a close family. looked like a
bleak Christmas for them, how was I going to tell

Thank God for the extra playing gigs I had that
December, and it was great that one of the band
leaders I had been working for came over and picked
me up that night to work the gig.........however
after the gig, I had wait in the back of his
Cadillac while he "collected monies" from many
different women that night all over LA (big street
education I got, hahaha....same person who paid us
studio musicians in "TV" sets on a record date one
time, we dubbed him the "Midnight Service"). :-) 
Anway, I finally got home around 5AM, and with 1
hour sleep, took the bus to work that day.

After a few calls from work, I found out where my
car was. That night, taking a chance, I took my
oldest kid, and she and I walked the mile or so to
the lot where my car was kept locked up. The lot was
closed, and in the dark I saw my I hopped
over the fence, barking dogs or no, and got into the
trunk and hurredly ran the toys over the fence. My
daughter found out there was "no Santa Claus" right
then and there, but she sure was happy to get that
red scooter which she rode home and my son rode in
the red wagon..his wagon! I put the other gifts in
the wagon and we made it back, relieved to get the

And yes, I had to pay the bill, eventually getting
my car ex was indisposed, drinking and not
working etc. Thank God I was working day and night
and could get us through that.

The kids have happy memories about our "tough" times,
and that's what it's about isn't it?! The Spirit of
Christmas...God does provide - maybe you have to
work a little hard for it, but hard work never hurt builds character and respect for others.
And I happily worked hard and within the year I
could quit the day-job and just work in the studios
and was determined to make sure my kids didn't know
how tough being that poor was in the years before
that special Christmas....we were all lucky to
provide well for our families in the 60s with studio

May you All have a great Spirit of Christmas with
you and your families and friends....with you all,
we've got the Spirit right here too.

Carol Kaye

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