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Spectropop V#0411

  • From: The Spectropop Group
  • Date: 04/26/00

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       Volume #0411                          April 26, 2000   
          The utmost reproduction of the original sound       
    Subject:     RE: "I'll Never Need...."
    Received:    04/26/00 2:37 am
    From:        Phil Chapman
    To:          Spectropop!
    Ian Chapman wrote
    > Well, Jamie, I have to confess to preferring Ike & Tina's
    > "I'll Never Need More Than This" way above its "sister"
    > record, "River Deep, Mountain High". I think "Never" is a
    > much more emotional song, and a far better showcase of
    > Tina's vocal ability.
    I also kind of prefer "I'll Never Need....", although I 
    think it was partly because "RDMH" was played to death
    on the radio. I have experimented over the years to work 
    out why, as you observe, "I'll Never..." 45 is so much 
    more powerful than the stereo (or the CD reissue for that 
    matter). My own theory is to do with the complex 
    compression effect of the cutting lathe on 45s. I have 
    treated the stereo mix to a succession of simulations 
    using programs like Sound Forge & Cool Edit and got pretty
    close. Compare the 45 cut of "Baby I Love You" with the 
    album, same mix but quite different sounding. And, with 
    the exception of US Motown 45s which were incredible, The 
    Crystals "I Wonder" on the UK 45rpm is the loudest thing 
    I've heard - the needles shudder during the intro and then
    jam at maximum for the remainder of the tune:-) ...and 
    that's called LOUD
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: "River Deep Mountain High"
    Received:    04/25/00 1:33 am
    From:        WASE RADIO
    To:          Spectropop!
    I can remember the first time I ever heard "River Deep 
    Mountain High" on the radio was on a Louisville, Ky. radio
    in the summer of 1968. This is not a typo on the year. WKLO
    radio was playing this song as one of three songs on "voice
    your choice". I remembered that the same song came in 
    second on the listener's choice program.
    I heard the song a couple of more times on the radio. I 
    even taped it off the radio-and I can recall how much 
    "River Deep Mountain High" gave me a tremendous adrenaline 
    rush. Afterwards, I never heard it until I bought the 2 LP 
    set "Phil Spector's Greatest Hits".
    It was the same way I had heard it except in stereo. When 
    I got more into radio and oldies, I was surprised to 
    discover that it was released in the spring of 1966 to a 
    somewhat indifferent American audience. But it was number 3
    in England. I think the reason that RDMH was a flop in 
    America was the song was so overwhelming. It was emotional
    from start to finish, especially the huge orchestral swells
    on the chorus and the huge scream that Tina gives out for 
    two seconds, linking the middle eight back to the last 
    chorus. It was and still is a tremendous song. Mark 
    Ribowsky, the author of an 1989 book on Spector, put it 
    best. He said that "River Deep Mountain High" sounded like
    it was "recorded tomorrow".
    Michael G. Marvin
    WASE radio
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     RDMH
    Received:    04/26/00 2:37 am
    From:        Phil Chapman
    To:          Spectropop!
    Ron Bierma wrote:
    > << >>>>>Or why it was so popular in England?<<<<
    > Having been a bass player on this hit and working for Phil
    > on most of his dates (there's many that Larry Levine forgot
    > about in his article like Howard Roberts etc. who were
    > regulars on Phil's dates etc.), we were all expecting this
    > to be his greatest hit yet. He was a great producer, but
    > kept in that "wall of sound" mode maybe too long and
    > eventually styles did change.  >>
    At the time the journalistic wisdom was that the charts in
    the States were becoming polarised between black soul/r&b, 
    and white pop/rock. "River Deep..." was considered too 
    black for the white charts, & vice versa. Certainly Phil's
    disdain for the music industry was beginning to turn in on 
    him, which didn't help. In retrospect I think America was 
    ahead of the UK in as much as they were moving away from 
    from 'walls of sound' where individual musicianship was 
    subjugated to create an overall effect, heralding the next
    generation of popular recordings. Ironically Spector's 
    techniques have been subtly employed in many 'corporate 
    rock' productions to produce a larger-than-life 'real' 
    sound. I'm sure Darlene has her reasons for being somewhat
    sour in her recount of the sessions, by then she must have 
    been aware that she may well have been repeatedly taken 
    advantage of on a business level. "River Deep..." is a 
    well-crafted song, the rhythm may have been influenced by 
    "My World Is Empty Without You" which was in the charts at
    the time featuring an innovative two-bar bass rhythm. If 
    you set aside the reality element and consider "River 
    Deep..." purely on the level of soundwaves emanating from 
    loudspeakers it is an overwhelming experience, dark, 
    sensual, climactic. I will never ever forget the profound 
    effect of the first time I heard it. And to me that is the
    mark of genius - the capacity to convey emotions through an
    art form, sound being one of the most abstract art forms.
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Pretty Deep
    Received:    04/26/00 2:37 am
    From:        Jamie LePage
    To:          Spectropop!
    Ron Bierma took the time to quote from Darlene Love's book
    "My Name is Love":
    >This time [the track for RDMH] was all din, no music. 
    I'm suspicious already.
    >He kept overdubbing the backup singers, and  by the time 
    >[Tina] got to about the fortieth take, she was screaming 
    >and losing her voice...And that's exactly how Phil wanted 
    >her to sound, like a woman on the verge of submission. 
    In my opinion, it was very effective, and although it was 
    apparently not Darlene's intention to glorify Spector in 
    this passage, I gotta respect the producer who achieves 
    his desired effect more than a producer who only 
    comes close. In the case of RDMH, I think Spector 
    surpassed even his own expectations. 
    >It was a Wall of Sound, all right: a wall of water,
    >and everyone was drowning.
    Clever analogy, that. 
    >Ellie Greenwich told me that when she got an acetate of 
    >the recording, she ripped it off the turntable before it 
    >was halfway through and threw it across the room. Ellie 
    >thought Phil had really lost it.
    Ellie was so angry she literally "ripped" the disc off the
    turntable, you see. Can't you just hear the needle 
    scratching across the grooves as Ellie, in a rage, 
    destroys her demo copy of a potentially huge hit Spector 
    production of her latest song. I don't believe any of this. 
    At all. If anything, I think she would listen 
    attentively until the end, then listen again, and if she 
    absolutely hated it, I think she would be dumb struck with 
    disbelief, not prone to a burst of violence that would 
    destroy her reference disc! Writers often like to live 
    with their recordings for a time before making a 
    conclusive judgment. Ellie, who was very aware of the 
    fortune Spector brought her from the very beginning even 
    before Jeff started writing with her, would have been 
    curious to hear it again and no matter what, she would 
    want to play it for others irrespective of her initial 
    reaction. Besides, she was quite used to Spector shelving 
    his productions of her songs by this time, and she is 
    known to have "covered" these shelved songs herself with 
    the Dixie Cups etc., and surely she would have wanted to 
    keep this acetate for that reason alone. Now if Spector 
    had tried to scoop her by secretly releasing his own 
    version of a Barry/Greenwich tune just before a planned 
    Red Bird release, then an expression of violence at 
    hearing his record is plausible. But otherwise...this just
    doesn't ring true. 
    >True, we all thought the record was crap, but it 
    >deserved a little better than # 88, which is where it 
    >crashed and burned.
    I don't know who "we all" is supposed to mean, but it's 
    interesting that Darlene, who rattles off Billboard chart 
    numbers as if telling the writer the age of her children, 
    takes it upon herself to speak for "everyone". This just 
    does not sound like Darlene Wright talking. I know there 
    is or was some animosity toward Phil regarding royalties 
    and shelved Darlene Love recordings, but these passages 
    sound way too much like a TV movie.
    Carol wrote:
    >[The regulars on Phil's dates] were all expecting this
    >to be his greatest hit yet. He was a great producer, but 
    >kept in that "wall of sound" mode maybe too long and 
    >eventually styles did change.
    This sounds more realistic. I think the pro musicians and 
    singers Phil used, as well as his contemporaries on both 
    sides of the Atlantic, would have recognized the qualities
    of the record even if they believed it was over the top. 
    Besides, this record is not all that far away sonically 
    from Is This What I Get For Lovin' You or Born To Be 
    Together. I am having trouble believing the sessions for 
    RDMH were so radically different from other Spector dates 
    around the same time.
    >"RDMH could have been the greatest record ever made and 
    >it still wouldn't have mattered. The Phil Spector era was 
    >officially over...."
    All Things Must Pass, Darlene.
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: River Deep
    Received:    04/25/00 1:32 am
    From:        Carol Kaye
    To:          Spectropop!
    On River Deep, I was speaking about how the studio 
    musicians felt (and talked) about it. Yes, it was crowded 
    in there, but most of Phil's later dates were. And I was 
    happy to see Darlene win her lawsuit, she and all the 
    singers, but espec. Darlene, worked very hard.  
    Carol Kaye
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     rock free radio
    Received:    04/25/00 1:33 am
    From:        Nat Kone
    To:          Spectropop!
    At 12:00 AM 4/24/00 +0900, radiopro wrote:
    >My first job in radio was working part time in the record 
    >library at a Middle of The Road station in Winnipeg, 
    >Manitoba Canada that only a few years earlier had "banned"
    >Rock and Roll. It was 1963.
    That must be CJOB.
    I'm not from Winnipeg myself but I have some close friends
    from there and they often talk about CJOB, a station that 
    was apparently inescapable when they grew up. It seems it 
    had a hugely disproportionate hold on the city. And as 
    much as my friends all hated the station, it did end up 
    influencing their tastes. The station that wouldn't play 
    rock but might play someone's version of rock. Not the 
    Doors "Light my fire" of course but maybe the Enoch Light 
    Singers version. The friends I refer to are all filmmakers
    and have become famous for their warped view of the world. 
    And they all credit CJOB to one degree or another for 
    helping them - or forcing them to - see the world 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Dennis Wilson Biography OUT NOW! 
    Received:    04/25/00 1:33 am
    From:        Steve Stanley
    To:          Spectropop!
    Hi Spectropoppers,
    I just wanted to let everyone know that I just finished 
    reading the new Dennis Wilson biography, "The Real Beach 
    Boy." It is truly a fascinating read and a must-have for 
    all BB fanatics because it contains many new revelations 
    about Dennis' misunderstood life and work as well as tons 
    of photos, most of which I've never seen before.
    Jon Stebbins (who actually knew Dennis) wrote the book and
    put on a bitchin' release party last week in Santa Monica 
    at Chez Jay, Dennis' favorite bar. It was a gas to see 
    Marilyn Wilson, David Marks, Steve Kalinich, various 
    family members and friends rubbing elbows at a Dennis 
    Wilson love-fest. The author informs me that the sales 
    have been incredible- the first 10,000 units are already 
    claimed! Apparently, Amazon still has some available at a 
    very cool discount (only $13.49, which is 20% off the 
    regular price of $16.99). 
    Many Tower Records and other conventional retail locations
    have the book also. Check yer local listings... 
    Steve Stanley
    P.S: I don't benefit from the sales of this book at all. I
    just wanted the Spectropop subscribers to know it was 
    available because it truly deserves attention. If anyone 
    has any questions, email me off the list. 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Do it now
    Received:    04/25/00 1:33 am
    From:        DJ JimmyB
    To:          Spectropop!
    >To this day, I have boxes upon boxes of 45s from the 1963-
    >69 era. One day I must find the time to catalogue them all. 
    You need to start IMMEDIATELY. Then put them on your web 
    site and give us the URL so we can collectively salivate...
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Bonetts
    Received:    04/25/00 1:32 am
    From:        Doc Rock
    To:          Spectropop!
    Anyone ever heard of this group, or the song "Ya Gotta 
    Take A Chance?"
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

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