__________________________________________________________ __________ __________ __________ S P E C T R O P O P __________ __________ __________ __________________________________________________________ Volume #0411 April 26, 2000 __________________________________________________________ The utmost reproduction of the original sound __________________________________________________________ Subject: RE: "I'll Never Need...." Received: 04/26/00 2:37 am From: Phil Chapman To: Spectropop! Ian Chapman wrote > Well, Jamie, I have to confess to preferring Ike & Tina's > "I'll Never Need More Than This" way above its "sister" > record, "River Deep, Mountain High". I think "Never" is a > much more emotional song, and a far better showcase of > Tina's vocal ability. I also kind of prefer "I'll Never Need....", although I think it was partly because "RDMH" was played to death on the radio. I have experimented over the years to work out why, as you observe, "I'll Never..." 45 is so much more powerful than the stereo (or the CD reissue for that matter). My own theory is to do with the complex compression effect of the cutting lathe on 45s. I have treated the stereo mix to a succession of simulations using programs like Sound Forge & Cool Edit and got pretty close. Compare the 45 cut of "Baby I Love You" with the album, same mix but quite different sounding. And, with the exception of US Motown 45s which were incredible, The Crystals "I Wonder" on the UK 45rpm is the loudest thing I've heard - the needles shudder during the intro and then jam at maximum for the remainder of the tune:-) ...and that's called LOUD Phil --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: "River Deep Mountain High" Received: 04/25/00 1:33 am From: WASE RADIO To: Spectropop! I can remember the first time I ever heard "River Deep Mountain High" on the radio was on a Louisville, Ky. radio in the summer of 1968. This is not a typo on the year. WKLO radio was playing this song as one of three songs on "voice your choice". I remembered that the same song came in second on the listener's choice program. I heard the song a couple of more times on the radio. I even taped it off the radio-and I can recall how much "River Deep Mountain High" gave me a tremendous adrenaline rush. Afterwards, I never heard it until I bought the 2 LP set "Phil Spector's Greatest Hits". It was the same way I had heard it except in stereo. When I got more into radio and oldies, I was surprised to discover that it was released in the spring of 1966 to a somewhat indifferent American audience. But it was number 3 in England. I think the reason that RDMH was a flop in America was the song was so overwhelming. It was emotional from start to finish, especially the huge orchestral swells on the chorus and the huge scream that Tina gives out for two seconds, linking the middle eight back to the last chorus. It was and still is a tremendous song. Mark Ribowsky, the author of an 1989 book on Spector, put it best. He said that "River Deep Mountain High" sounded like it was "recorded tomorrow". Michael G. Marvin WASE radio --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: RDMH Received: 04/26/00 2:37 am From: Phil Chapman To: Spectropop! Ron Bierma wrote: > << >>>>>Or why it was so popular in England?<<<< > > Having been a bass player on this hit and working for Phil > on most of his dates (there's many that Larry Levine forgot > about in his article like Howard Roberts etc. who were > regulars on Phil's dates etc.), we were all expecting this > to be his greatest hit yet. He was a great producer, but > kept in that "wall of sound" mode maybe too long and > eventually styles did change. >> At the time the journalistic wisdom was that the charts in the States were becoming polarised between black soul/r&b, and white pop/rock. "River Deep..." was considered too black for the white charts, & vice versa. Certainly Phil's disdain for the music industry was beginning to turn in on him, which didn't help. In retrospect I think America was ahead of the UK in as much as they were moving away from from 'walls of sound' where individual musicianship was subjugated to create an overall effect, heralding the next generation of popular recordings. Ironically Spector's techniques have been subtly employed in many 'corporate rock' productions to produce a larger-than-life 'real' sound. I'm sure Darlene has her reasons for being somewhat sour in her recount of the sessions, by then she must have been aware that she may well have been repeatedly taken advantage of on a business level. "River Deep..." is a well-crafted song, the rhythm may have been influenced by "My World Is Empty Without You" which was in the charts at the time featuring an innovative two-bar bass rhythm. If you set aside the reality element and consider "River Deep..." purely on the level of soundwaves emanating from loudspeakers it is an overwhelming experience, dark, sensual, climactic. I will never ever forget the profound effect of the first time I heard it. And to me that is the mark of genius - the capacity to convey emotions through an art form, sound being one of the most abstract art forms. Phil --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Pretty Deep Received: 04/26/00 2:37 am From: Jamie LePage To: Spectropop! Ron Bierma took the time to quote from Darlene Love's book "My Name is Love": >This time [the track for RDMH] was all din, no music. I'm suspicious already. >He kept overdubbing the backup singers, and by the time >[Tina] got to about the fortieth take, she was screaming >and losing her voice...And that's exactly how Phil wanted >her to sound, like a woman on the verge of submission. In my opinion, it was very effective, and although it was apparently not Darlene's intention to glorify Spector in this passage, I gotta respect the producer who achieves his desired effect more than a producer who only comes close. In the case of RDMH, I think Spector surpassed even his own expectations. >It was a Wall of Sound, all right: a wall of water, >and everyone was drowning. Clever analogy, that. >Ellie Greenwich told me that when she got an acetate of >the recording, she ripped it off the turntable before it >was halfway through and threw it across the room. Ellie >thought Phil had really lost it. Ellie was so angry she literally "ripped" the disc off the turntable, you see. Can't you just hear the needle scratching across the grooves as Ellie, in a rage, destroys her demo copy of a potentially huge hit Spector production of her latest song. I don't believe any of this. At all. If anything, I think she would listen attentively until the end, then listen again, and if she absolutely hated it, I think she would be dumb struck with disbelief, not prone to a burst of violence that would destroy her reference disc! Writers often like to live with their recordings for a time before making a conclusive judgment. Ellie, who was very aware of the fortune Spector brought her from the very beginning even before Jeff started writing with her, would have been curious to hear it again and no matter what, she would want to play it for others irrespective of her initial reaction. Besides, she was quite used to Spector shelving his productions of her songs by this time, and she is known to have "covered" these shelved songs herself with the Dixie Cups etc., and surely she would have wanted to keep this acetate for that reason alone. Now if Spector had tried to scoop her by secretly releasing his own version of a Barry/Greenwich tune just before a planned Red Bird release, then an expression of violence at hearing his record is plausible. But otherwise...this just doesn't ring true. >True, we all thought the record was crap, but it >deserved a little better than # 88, which is where it >crashed and burned. I don't know who "we all" is supposed to mean, but it's interesting that Darlene, who rattles off Billboard chart numbers as if telling the writer the age of her children, takes it upon herself to speak for "everyone". This just does not sound like Darlene Wright talking. I know there is or was some animosity toward Phil regarding royalties and shelved Darlene Love recordings, but these passages sound way too much like a TV movie. Carol wrote: >[The regulars on Phil's dates] were all expecting this >to be his greatest hit yet. He was a great producer, but >kept in that "wall of sound" mode maybe too long and >eventually styles did change. This sounds more realistic. I think the pro musicians and singers Phil used, as well as his contemporaries on both sides of the Atlantic, would have recognized the qualities of the record even if they believed it was over the top. Besides, this record is not all that far away sonically from Is This What I Get For Lovin' You or Born To Be Together. I am having trouble believing the sessions for RDMH were so radically different from other Spector dates around the same time. >"RDMH could have been the greatest record ever made and >it still wouldn't have mattered. The Phil Spector era was >officially over...." All Things Must Pass, Darlene. Jamie --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: River Deep Received: 04/25/00 1:32 am From: Carol Kaye To: Spectropop! On River Deep, I was speaking about how the studio musicians felt (and talked) about it. Yes, it was crowded in there, but most of Phil's later dates were. And I was happy to see Darlene win her lawsuit, she and all the singers, but espec. Darlene, worked very hard. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: rock free radio Received: 04/25/00 1:33 am From: Nat Kone To: Spectropop! At 12:00 AM 4/24/00 +0900, radiopro wrote: > >My first job in radio was working part time in the record >library at a Middle of The Road station in Winnipeg, >Manitoba Canada that only a few years earlier had "banned" >Rock and Roll. It was 1963. That must be CJOB. I'm not from Winnipeg myself but I have some close friends from there and they often talk about CJOB, a station that was apparently inescapable when they grew up. It seems it had a hugely disproportionate hold on the city. And as much as my friends all hated the station, it did end up influencing their tastes. The station that wouldn't play rock but might play someone's version of rock. Not the Doors "Light my fire" of course but maybe the Enoch Light Singers version. The friends I refer to are all filmmakers and have become famous for their warped view of the world. And they all credit CJOB to one degree or another for helping them - or forcing them to - see the world differently. Nat --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Dennis Wilson Biography OUT NOW! Received: 04/25/00 1:33 am From: Steve Stanley To: Spectropop! Hi Spectropoppers, I just wanted to let everyone know that I just finished reading the new Dennis Wilson biography, "The Real Beach Boy." It is truly a fascinating read and a must-have for all BB fanatics because it contains many new revelations about Dennis' misunderstood life and work as well as tons of photos, most of which I've never seen before. Jon Stebbins (who actually knew Dennis) wrote the book and put on a bitchin' release party last week in Santa Monica at Chez Jay, Dennis' favorite bar. It was a gas to see Marilyn Wilson, David Marks, Steve Kalinich, various family members and friends rubbing elbows at a Dennis Wilson love-fest. The author informs me that the sales have been incredible- the first 10,000 units are already claimed! Apparently, Amazon still has some available at a very cool discount (only $13.49, which is 20% off the regular price of $16.99). Many Tower Records and other conventional retail locations have the book also. Check yer local listings... Steve Stanley P.S: I don't benefit from the sales of this book at all. I just wanted the Spectropop subscribers to know it was available because it truly deserves attention. If anyone has any questions, email me off the list. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Do it now Received: 04/25/00 1:33 am From: DJ JimmyB To: Spectropop! >To this day, I have boxes upon boxes of 45s from the 1963- >69 era. One day I must find the time to catalogue them all. You need to start IMMEDIATELY. Then put them on your web site and give us the URL so we can collectively salivate... JB --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Bonetts Received: 04/25/00 1:32 am From: Doc Rock To: Spectropop! Anyone ever heard of this group, or the song "Ya Gotta Take A Chance?" Doc --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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