The Spectropop Group Archives presented by Friends of Spectropop

[Prev by Date] [Next by Date] [Index] [Search]

Spectropop V#0361

  • From: The Spectropop Group
  • Date: 12/25/99

  • __________________________________________________________
    __________                                      __________
    __________                                      __________
    __________     S  P  E  C  T  R  O  P  O  P     __________
    __________                                      __________
       Volume #0361                       December 25, 1999   
     Holiday Greetings to Spectropoppers Throughout the World 
    Subject:     Zappa Music Training
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        Don Richardson,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Carol Kaye wrote:
    >He was the only one (outside of Frank Zappa, who I 
    >consider a more-trained musician/composer/ arranger and 
    >who used 2-3 of his band along with our guitar group of 
    >studio musicians) who did his own arranging, brought in 
    >note-written parts (not just chord change sheets).
    By all accounts I have read and learned of, and by his own
    admission, Zappa never learned how to write music in 
    conventional format. In fact, he reportedly created his 
    own graphical system in writing his own music, to which 
    only a handful of people knew how to interpret. Van Dyke 
    Parks was a member of the Mothers of Invention for a few 
    months and some of his work was converting Zappa's 
    personal music notation into conventional standard music 
    copy. Although neither have ever been close to 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     "Telstar" & update my Cher recommendations
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        Billy G. Spradlin,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    At 01:41 AM 12/22/99 +0900, DJ JimmyB wrote:
    >Iknow a lot of British musicians of the time were
    >disappointed that they couldn't get as much instant impact
    >as they wanted from the UK stuff. Joe Meek was particularly
    >frustrated with this, and when he went into cut 'Telstar'
    >he cut it so deep it nearly came out the other side!
    >That's why The Decca 'Telstar' is the loudest British 60s
    >45 you will find.......
    I have several copies of "Telstar" in good shape on London
    Records USA and its super compressed to jump out of radio 
    speakers. Its all midrange and shrill treble. I seriously 
    doubt the Dave Clark 5 would have had a career if it 
    wasn't for Joe Meek's production experiments, since they 
    used every trick in his book!
    Telstar's still a amazing record (I believe it was the 
    first UK record to hit #1 in the USA before The Beatles) 
    and a favorite of mine since childhood when I first heard 
    it on a oldies show. I was listening to it on Rhino's 
    "British Invasion" CD series and was wondering what those 
    weird space noises were at the end of the record. So I 
    recorded the entire song on my PC, used Cool Edit (a wav 
    file editing program) to "flip" it backwards and it sounds
    like someone banging on those long garage door springs with
    lots of reverb, echo and tape manipulation.
    I've also heard that theres running water from a sink, and
    a toilet being flushed(!) in "Telstar" recorded backwards 
    as one of the space noises, but I never heard that when I 
    played it both backwards and forwards and even slowed down. 
    Amazing stuff when you know he recorded this song in a 
    tiny apartment!
    Also, I want to update my Cher recommendations. It looks 
    like EMI has deleted the 2-fer of "All I Want to Do/The 
    Sunny Side of Cher" but EMI has a collection available 
    called "Bang Bang-The Early Years" which has many of the 
    best songs (though some of my favorites were omitted, but 
    it does include "Dream Baby") from those two albums along 
    with some later recordings for Imperial. was 
    selling it for 9.94.
    Billy G. Spradlin
    29 Rim Road
    Kilgore, Texas 75662
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     A Great New 99 Christmas Album
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        chuck,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Every now and then the people in the music business align 
    just right to produce a wonderful Christmas album. Its 
    been awhile for me but finally in 1999 along comes "El 
    Christmas: The World In Winter" El records is associated 
    with the wonderful and mysterious Mike Alway who goes 
    under various names when making his music, (ex: "Fan-
    tastic Everlasting Gobstopper")
    This album also includes contributions from Louis 
    Phiilippe whose teamed up with Mike Alway on other great 
    collections on the Siesta label and Momus. These are three
    major leaders in the modern soft indie pop scene. 
    The album consists of 16 songs, 14 new compositions and 
    marverlous remake of "Goodnight" It has, what I consider 
    are some modern day Christmas classics. The style ranges 
    from Beach Boy influenced, to girl group sound, to 
    sunshine pop (theres a remake of the Cowsills' Rain the 
    Park and Other Things". Its a surprise to hear a 64 styled
    girl group song on here. Don't get me wrong though its not 
    produced like Phil Spector or written by the great Brill 
    Building writers. One of the songs starts off with seagull
    sounds and I was hoping for a Shadow Morton Shangrilas 
    adventure but got a more Bananarama sound 
    There's a guitar sound on one of the songs straight from 65. 
    One of the Louis Phillipe songs, "The Thirteenth Day Of 
    Christmas" is up to his high standards and is extremely 
    well written in a mid 60s style with his stamp all over it.
    The album is generally solid but there are some week and 
    obnoxious cuts. Generally it has a little more of a 60s 
    stamp than Mike Alway and Louis Philippe usually have. 
    However some of the songs really are classics. One song 
    that desrves special mention is "Psychedlic Christmas" a 
    late 60's style romp that is sure to get airplay on 
    college radio.
    In a similiar vein comes a newly written Christmas cd 
    single, "Lonely Christmas" by Jonnny Diamond, (Easy Tune 
    1995) produced by Arling & Cameron.
    This is a beautiful and sad Christmas song sung softly 
    and beautifully by Jonny Diamond, who I don't know 
    anything about.
    Also worth mentioning, though only a few songs would 
    appeal to members of these lists, is a V/A compilation put
    together by L A DJ Rodney Bingenheimer on Dionysus Records 
    called "Santa's Got A GTO" For me the best song is the 
    Ramona's title cut. A little modern punk on top of a great
    60's melody. Generally the album is power pop but the 
    Wondermints turn in a great version of "Ski Party" (which 
    I enjoyed watching on AMC last Sat night).
    I Wish You All a Jolly Jolly Christmas Filled With Music.
    Easy listening in the Big Easy 
    np The Retro Coctail Hour's Christmas Show in real audio
    Also I understand there was a Van Dyke Parks concert in 
    London and Tobias and others were there. Any reviews are 
    welcome, thanks.
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- 
    Subject:     Big Band roots of rock
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        Michael Helfinger,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Thanks, Doc Rock, for getting the wheels in my head 
    turning again with your thoughts about the Big Band sound 
    as a contributor to the evolution of rock 'n'roll.
    I have in my possession a CD compilation on Columbia 
    called "Juke Joint Jump - A Boogie Woogie Celebration." It
    contains a recording of "Honky Tonk Train Blues" by Red 
    Saunders and His Orchestra cut in 1953. This instrumental 
    piece was apparently penned in the 1930s - an earlier 
    version by another band is contained on the CD, but this 
    latter rendition is especially interesting because it can 
    be described as equal parts Big Band, R&B and rock'n'roll.
    I'm sure that lots of similar examples from the early 1950s
    could be dug up.
    I can think of at least a couple of widely recognized 
    Founding Fathers of rock who has some association with the
    Big Band style. The instrumental backing of Joe Turner's 
    recordings had a definite Big Band feel. Bob Wills and His
    Texas Playboys were essentially a western-flavored Big Band
    in the late '30s and early '40s before their style evolved 
    into what is today recognized as Western Swing after the 
    war and went on to do a few rockabilly-type recordings in 
    the early '50s.
    Doo-wop and the Girl Group Sound might be considered to be
    the product of a blending of black and white vocal harmony 
    traditions whose roots extend back to the Big Band era 
    (Boswell Sisters, Mills Brothers, etc.). And, a number of 
    '50s rock hits featured a Big Band-style instrumental 
    backing. "Goody Goody" (a song originating in the Big Band
    era) by Frankie Lymon comes to mind...some of Bobby 
    Darin's later hits...the Crew Cuts (yes, they did rip-off
    covers of early black doo-wop recordings, but these covers 
    were an important part of the process of popularizing 
    Just some disconnected thoughts, but maybe someone out 
    there could lend some more form and substance to them... 
    Happy holidays to all Spectropoppers. 
    Michael Helfinger 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: GEMA
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        WASE RADIO,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    To Jake Tassell:
    GEMA is a German music licensing agency like BMI or ASCAP 
    would be here in America. I have heard both mixes of "I'll
    Never Need.....". The mono mix is indeed very loud. The 
    stereo mix sounds loud but more cavernous-more open. 
    Happy Christmas to all Spectropoppers and
    have a :):):):):):) smiley new millenium.
                               Michael G. Marvin WASE radio
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: Phil Spector Christmas CD in stereo
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        WASE RADIO,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    To James:
         As an addendum to my last post on the Phil Spector 
    Christmas CD in stereo, it is on a label called "Duchesse" 
    and carries a 1988 copyright.  Good luck in finding a copy.
                                           Michael G. Marvin
                                            WASE radio
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     odds 'n' ends
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        Jamie LePage,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Hi all,
    Just a few odds 'n' ends...
    On December 14,  BMI announced the Top 100 Songs of
    the Century, listing the most played songs on American
    radio and television. At number #1 was "You've Lost That
    Lovin' Feelin'" (Phil Spector/Barry Mann/Cynthia Weil).
    The song, originally recorded by Phil Spector for the 
    Righteous Brothers, holds a record for eight million
    Other songs making the top of the list included "Never My
    Love", "Yesterday"; and "Stand By Me" with over seven
    million plays, and credited with six million spins were
    "Can't Take My Eyes Off Of You", "Sitting On the Dock Of
    the Bay", "Mrs. Robinson"; "Baby I Need Your Loving",
    "Rhythm Of The Rain"; and "Georgia On My Mind".
    Is anyone surprised the top ten songs of the 20th century 
    are all from the "spectropop" era?
    GEMA is the German copyright society (similar to MCPS and 
    PRS in Britain). Actually, "GEsellschaft fur Musikalische 
    Auffuhrungs- und mechanische Vervielfaltigungsrechte 
    (Society for Musical Performing Rights and Mechanical 
    Reproduction Rights)"!!! I have noticed GEMA printed on 
    the labels of many European discs, particularly German 
    Heavy Blinker Jason got a few answers about King/Goffin
    compilations, but I just wanted to throw in the fantastic
    Carole King Masterpiece Volumes 1, 02 , 03 on A-Side. These
    are mostly mastered from vinyl, but they are wonderful 
    For track listings, go to
    The A-Side discog is definitely worth checking out.
    Happy Holidays to all Spectropoppers!
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     from Mitch Holder re: contracts
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        Carol Kaye,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    >From Mitch Holder about our Musicians contracts:
    PS. Remember when contractors, for various reasons, would 
    maybe put someones name down for a date playing some other
    instrument. I don't remember the specific incidents, but 
    remember sometimes it would solve a problem about too many
    doubles for a player, stuff like that. The contractor would
    put one of the doubles down as a percussion instrument or 
    something, just to make it look more legit. I recall that 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     From Russ Wapensky
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        Carol Kaye,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    From Russ Wapensky, the noted Musicians Union contracts 
    researcher whose book will be out in 2000 (Greenwood 
    Press) about all of our credits:
    >(don't have access to my files at the moment). The person 
    >writing you is probably using the Pet Sounds Box for 
    >reference that I helped David Leaf with a few years back. 
    >Otherwise though, it was Hal on nearly everything else.
    Russ even called me on the telephone about this yesterday 
    from his vacation place and said he'd re-check everything 
    and mentioned the boxed set but even he is not that final 
    on these contracts....the Beach Boys contracts have some 
    flaws and misinformation in them which he's still doing 
    research on. 
    He did reiterate the fact that yes, he told me it was 
    always Hal except for a few early ones that Earl did on 
    the Beach Boys 60s record dates. We'll have the final 
    sayso on this soon, Russ doesn't speak with others about 
    If you want to check on the Terra launch that my daughter 
    Gwyn is a part of it's at:
    special thanks to a fan of mine. 
    Many people are interested in this very important but 
    low-profile environmental mission some of whom studied out
    of the "Gwyn bass books" I put out years ago, like the 
    wonderful Alf Clausen, composer of the Simpsons TV show 
    whom I had the pleasure of teaching bass to about 1969-70,
    he knows Gwyn, is proud of her too.....the "bass" 
    Others who bought my books include Christian McBride, John
    Paul Jones, Mo Foster, Nathan East, other big USA basses 
    and even Sting studied out of them too....they all know 
    who "Gwyn" is, a small world as they say. 
    Carol Kaye 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: Against the law to post contracts
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        Brad Elliott,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Carol Kaye wrote:
    > FYI Brad Elliott, it's against the law to post any of our
    > Musicians' Union contracts, or at least our Union
    > threatened a lawsuit against someone who recently tried to
    > do that, SSN's or not you shouldn't be putting any
    > contract on the url.
    I appreciate your sensitivity, but I really doubt it's 
    illegal to post something like that unless it were an invasion
    of privacy in some way (which it certainly would be if the 
    SSNs were left visible). As a long-time journalist, I'm quite 
    familiar with the laws about confidentiality and privacy, 
    and this doesn't violate any of them. It in no way defames
    anybody, it's not an untruth, the facts aren't private (you
    and other musicians have discussed session credits at 
    length, and the pay scales at the time were common 
    knowledge in the music industry), nobody's put in jeopardy
    or publicly embarrassed, and nobody's portrayed in a false 
    light. I've seen executed legal contracts published in 
    scores of books over the years; I've even seen musicians 
    contracts published in various places. If you'd like to 
    have somebody from the legal office of the Musicians Union
    call me, I'd be more than happy to talk with them. My 
    number is [edited. contact admin with any queries]. 
    > And I have a message out to Russ Wapensky who usually 
    > replies to me quickly on what he told me about this.
    I look forward to hearing what he has to say.
    > "Drums" can mean percussion and "Guitar" can mean elec.
    > bass on the contracts -- so now you know that contracts
    > are not to be literally taken unless you are in the music
    > business and know the difference of what is meant by the
    > different ways of handling the IDing of instruments.
    If you look at the contract, you'll see that there's no 
    identification of instruments there. However, I know what 
    drums sound like and there very definitely are drums heard
    on the original session tape (not an overdub). On the 
    finished recording, you can hear them come in with an 
    especially prominent snare beginning at about 53 seconds 
    into the track. I really doubt that anybody else who was 
    at that session (Carol, Billy Strange, Tommy Tedesco, 
    Jerry Cole, Lyle Ritz and five horn players) sat in on 
    drums. There's just no question it was Ritchie Frost. 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: Only Hal Blaine on drums
    Received:    12/25/99 1:03 am
    From:        Brad Elliott,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Dave Mirich wrote:
    > Brad. Your response to Carol felt overly harsh to me, in
    > contrast to the style and manner normally shown by
    > discussants on this list.
    Dave, if I was overly harsh (practically apologizing for 
    contradicting her), please look at her earlier response to 
    >> Richie did NOT play drums on any Brian Wilson date at all
    >> - only Hal Blaine on drums.
    There was nothing such as "I think you're mistaken." 
    Instead, just a flat out statement that said I was wrong. 
    You thought "it was unnecessary for [me] to flatly state 
    that she was wrong on this small point." But you 
    apparently have a double standard.
    The problem is that it's clearly documented that, contrary
    to what Carol says, Hal was not the only drummer on Brian 
    Wilson dates. Yes, he was the predominant drummer 
    (definitely Brian's favorite) on tracks for the Beach Boys,
    but in the 1965-67 era, Earl Palmer, Jim Gordon, Ritchie 
    Frost and Nick Martinis all drummed on Brian Wilson dates.
    If I need to, I can produce a list for you of the specific 
    dates and tracks, or even put up the AFM contracts for you
    to peruse.
    > I would rather you had couched your
    > comments in the context that, "It must be next to
    > impossible to keep track of those thousands of dates and
    > hundred of thousands of details -- but here is the
    > information I have unearthed on this point."
    When I first posted the information, I wasn't 
    contradicting her. Go back and read my first post about 
    Ritchie Frost; you'll see that, at that time, all I was 
    doing WAS reporting the information that I had on that 
    point. Carol chose to say flat-out that my information was
    wrong. She could easily have said that she didn't remember
    Frost playing a Brian session and asked what documentation 
    I had, but she didn't. Her absolute response (with the 
    word NOT capitalized!) left me little choice but to offer 
    a rebuttal.
    Let's not turn this into an ugly situation. I have only 
    the greatest respect for Carol and fond memories of 
    spending the better part of a day with her just last year 
    when I was out in L.A. I agree with you that it must be 
    nearly impossible to keep track of thousands of dates and 
    who did what. I recognize that, which is why it's 
    absolutely necessary that the supporting research be done 
    to determine the facts. That's what really matters, isn't 
    it? The truth about who did what and when, so that those 
    who deserve credit get it.
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

    Click here to go to The Spectropop Group

    Spectropop text contents & copy; copyright Spectropop unless stated otherwise. All rights in and to the contents of these documents, including each element embodied therein, is subject to copyright protection under international copyright law. Any use, reuse, reproduction and/or adaptation without written permission of the owners is a violation of copyright law and is strictly prohibited. All rights reserved.