__________________________________________________________ __________ __________ __________ __________ __________ S P E C T R O P O P __________ __________ __________ __________________________________________________________ Volume #0360 December 22, 1999 __________________________________________________________ GEMASubject: Musicianship! Received: 12/21/99 11:02 pm From: DJ JimmyB, DJJimxxxxxcom To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com In a message dated 12/19/99 7:17:13 PM, you wrote: >There's a reason why you don't hear the musicianship today Musicianship! Hell, you don't even hear choruses, bridges or melodies....mainly just grooves...fine for a little while, but............. Jimmy Botticelli --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: I'll Never Need More Than This Received: 12/22/99 1:27 am From: jake tassell, xwsf.taxxxxxin.net To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com Right Jamie! If they're gonna call us 'retentive' - then let them go ahead, say I! My two different copies of 'INNMTT' are; the one on the A&M album which you referred to as the Larry Levine stereo mix and another one on a single backed with 'A Love Like Yours....'; it's an English release on the London label HLU10627, unusually for a London release - it has an orange label. It also says on the label GEMA which I don't know anything about, but my neighbour told me this meant it was an 'export copy', no, I don't know what that means either - export from where? To where? Maybe that has no significance at all. It also says;- Made in England by the Decca Record Co. Ltd. It was found in my girlfriend's father's attic along with a bunch of dreary Searchers records and a couple of good Eden Kane and Heinz discs. But let's drop the red-herrings, superfluities and anecdotals - I think this copy is probably just the ordinary English release. On the single version, which is mono, it's a tighter mix, the guitar section is more prominent and there is definitely a ton-weight more 'chamber' on the vocal. I don't think it's just a straight 'squeeze and balance' job. I personally like both versions for different reasons. Because of the more compressed sound on the single it gives the illusion of being more fleet than the album version, but I think they're both the same speed and length. As I said before it also has a really stupid amount of echo on it - which is always fun. The 'Levine' version has a lot more light and shade, height and depth - which I like a lot too. The original on Philles is probably going to sound a bit different again as you know, because British and American sixties 45s were made out of completely different kinds of vinyl. Now we're getting into the the 'fine-wines' talk! American record-plastic at that time was much more brittle, had huge amounts of really unsubtle bass and treble reponse and kind of lacked finesse, but it excelled in impact terms. The English vinyl was less brittle and thus - mid-rangey and more comprehensively fi oriented but it didn't mark up as much oomph! Which is best? As all things, it depends what you want. I tend to like US 45s on US vinyl and vice versa. I know a lot of British musicians of the time were disappointed that they couldn't get as much instant impact as they wanted from the UK stuff. Joe Meek was particularly frustrated with this, and when he went into cut 'Telstar' he cut it so deep it nearly came out the other side! That's why The Decca 'Telstar' is the loudest British 60s 45 you will find....... I have to apologise at this point and say that I really want to write more but I have to go to the bank! Then I'm off to the log-fire in Somerset for Christmas. To be continued...... Wishing a Merry Christmas to All of You on The List - You Spectorial Revisionists, You!!! Jake Tassell --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: Goffin/King Collection Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm From: David Bash, baxxxxxhlink.net To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com The Heavy Blinkers, heavyblixxxxxo.com wrote: > > Hi there! I'm new to the list and I have a question > that I know you spectorophiles out there can answer > for me: Does there exist and where can one purchase a > Goffin/King box set (or simply a collection) covering > material that was given to other artists? Any help > would be GREATLY appreciated. > thanks guys > Jason Hi Jason, One collection which might fulfill your needs, although it isn't devoted strictly to Goffin/King, is "On Broadway: Hit Songs And Rarities From The Brill Building Era", a 2 CD set released this year, on Westside Records. It's got 50 tracks, all of which are tunes writeen by either Goffin/King, Barry Greenwich, or Mann/Weil. It's a great collection, and very reasonbly priced for an import. The sound is good, the liners are good; I'm sure you'd love it! Check out Westside at http://www.vci.co.uk Jason, are you a member of the Canadian band The Heavy Blinkers? If so, I like your CD, and just heard your Xmas song, which I thought was excellent! -- Spectropop Rules!!!!! Take Care, David Bash --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: RE: King/Goffin compilation Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm From: Mark Landwehr, mxxxxxbbs.com To: Spectropop List, Spectxxxxxities.com > Does there exist and where can one purchase a > Goffin/King box set (or simply a collection) covering > material that was given to other artists? Any help > would be GREATLY appreciated. > As for LPs, Jason, here are two hard-to-find compilations... Screen Gems-Columbia Music released to radio stations only an LP (CPL-713) of King/Goffin hits around 1970 featuring: Chains - Beatles(!) Halfway to Paradise - Tony Orlando Her Royal Majesty - James Darren Hey Girl - Freddie Scott Hi-De-Ho - Blood, Sweat and Tears I'm Into Something Good - Herman's Hermits Loco-Motion - Little Eva Oh No, Not My Baby - Maxine Brown One Fine Day - Chiffons Pleasant Valley Sunday - Monkees Take Good Care of My Baby - Bobby Vee Up On the Roof - Drifters Will You Love Me Tomorrow - Shirelles Later, an LP called "Solid Gold Programming from Screen Gems/Colgems EMI Music Companies" included 2 records filled with nothing but King/Goffin hits. Again, this was a promo-only issue, featuring many of the same tunes as the previously-mentioned LP, along with such goodies as: Goin' Back - Byrds Will You Love Me Tomorrow - Dave Mason No Easy Way Down - Dusty Springfield Oh No, Not My Baby - Rod Stewart Locomotion - Grand Funk A Natural Woman - Aretha Franklin Every Breath I Take - Gene Pitney It Might As Well Rain Until September - Carole King and others.... This is a goodie for the Spector-produced Pitney song, and, surprisingly, both LPs have the uncharted Beatles cover of the Cookies' smash hit "Chains"...(Why didn't they put the Cookies' version on these records??) Since both LPs were promo-only, I'm pretty sure they were never commercially released later on CD/tape. That is, I'm sure until someone says I'm wrong.... Mark Phil Spector Label Gallery - updated 12/xxxxxp://www.toltbbs.com/~msland/Spector HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL SPECTROPOPPERS!!!! --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: two areas Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm From: Michael B Kelly, docxxxxx.com To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com I feel we are immensely fortunate to have Carol Kaye contributing to Spectropop. I have two areas I would appreciate her input on. 1. You mentioned that "Brian was the ONLY one who had semi-charts, parts for some instruments were totally written out while other charts were just chord-charts." What did Jan Berry bring, if anything? 2. Rock and roll is generally said to be a fusion of R&B and Country. I grew up listening to my father play Big Band music and pop, and I always felt that was the third leg of the table. Now you mention that the musicians were all Jazz-oriented. So in your opinion was R&R a combination of R&B/Country/ Pop/Jazz? Doc --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: Spector Christmas in ((stereo)) Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm From: WASE RADIO,xxxxxt.org To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com Hi James: I have a European CD that has the Spector Christmas songs in stereo. But they also tacked on three Elvis songs. The CD is simply called "Xmas Party". The sound quality varies. Darlene Love's "White Christmas" sounds bassy. Elvis' "Blue Christmas" is the same. The other tracks sound fine. There are some differences in the mixes other than the obvious stereo-mono ones. On the stereo mixes, the strings (heard on the right channel) are much louder. On the mono mixes the strings are almost buried by the rhythm section. Also the stereo versions that fade does so earlier than on the mono versions. I'll try to find out the label for you. But again the CD is called "Xmas Party". The front cover depicts a swiss chalet at night covered in snow. And over the picture are publicity photos of Elvis and all the Spector artists. Good Luck Michael G. Marvin WASE radio --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Living at the other end of the channel tunnel Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm From: Frank, fxxxxxc.fr To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com jake tassell wrote: > >Dear Spectropop > >...made me think a lot about The >Spector influence on the English and Continental-European >production styles of that time. > >The British ignorance of any Continental-European >tradition in pop music before or since reflects fairly >well the complete lack of identification with its >geographical proximity. This is partly a cultural divide, >but also simply to do with language difference. Since the >channel-tunnel opened you can now get to Paris from London >quicker than you can get to Liverpool or Manchester;- but >hardly anyone in England has heard of Francoise Hardy, >Serge Gainsbourg, France Gall etc. and apart from the >aforementioned artists, my knowledge of sixties >continental pop is fairly limited too. Any of you Spectros >got any good recommendations? > >Regards > > Dear Jake, Interesting subject you bring up there. Living at the other end of the channel tunnel and having been raised and bathed in US and British music in the 60's, I was lucky enough to see live and later on meet most of the great artists you mention from the Beatles to Andrew Oldham, and of course all of the French artists you mention (I'm still very good friend with France Gall). However I' m sorry to have to say that in my opinion there was never anything in France that could be compared to the Wall Of Sound. It's true that the British scene really knew who Phil Spector was and what he was doing (I can still remember the ecstatic opinion Paul and John had about River Deep Mountain High) and also, true there were quite interesting pseudo WOS productions done in the UK (certainly the Walker Bros. were one instance and Andrew Oldham was probably the No. 1 Phil Spector fan), but as far as France was concerned : nothing. I know at one point, Francoise Hardy had some following in Britain but this had probably more to do with her look that was pure Carnaby Street than anything else and certainly not with any relations to the WOS. You must remember that back in the 60s when French pop started (with artists like Johnny Halliday, Eddy Mitchell, Sylvie Vartan...) it was 99% covers of US and British hits, nothing else. Artists and producers only tried to copy, as faithfully as they could, the sound they heard on the English speking hits. As a result we had all those French translations of most of the Phil Spector songs (even River Deep Mountain High) and practically all the other hits of the time that you can think of. All I can say is that (99% (again) of these covers were tragic. And it's interesting to note that the only French artists who survived this period veered from covers to original songs definitely much more interesting. This being said there were of course hundreds of French singers and groups to suddenly come out of nowhere at the time and they are much more listenable now than then. Probably a nostalgic effect, so if you're interested in anything in particular, I'll be glad to help. Frank --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Video Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm From: Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com A fan just emailed this to me, tho't you might like to see it, tho't they were done showing those videos (permanently archived now in the Paul Allen Experience Museum in Seattle, due to open June 2000, I just was up there recording bass sounds on their old instruments for them, great people with this company, EMP): The Message: I just visited the "Experience Music Project" page and found a video clip of Carol et al at McCabe's. Woo-hoo, I finally get to see them in action! Check it out at: http://www.experience.org/nowplaying/ck/videos/real/kaye_thumbs_up_300.ram Carol, why didn't you tell us it was there??? --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: News Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm From: Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com Here's something I just received from Alan Boyd, a very wonderful person as is the great Mark Linnet, fine engineer with wonderful integrity: >Just tonight Mark Linett and I finished mastering a >special Beach Boys CD for Capitol Records, a "bonus" disc >that will be given to folks who buy the new greatest hits >packages. I've tried to structure it a little like a movie, >I guess, interspersing bits of dialog, studio chatter, >and even some very early home recordings at the Wilson >house with alternate/unreleased versions of songs that are >either in the movie or on one of the greatest hits CD's. > >It turned out quite nicely, and I think fans will really >go for it. Mark Linett is an amazing engineer, a real >perfectionist, and he did some magic with those old tapes. Mark is the nicest guy in the business and the most honest too.....altho' some ugly bootlegger tried to slander him awhile back, I can vouch for Mark, a terrific guy. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Against the law to post contracts Received: 12/21/99 11:02 pm From: Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com FYI Brad Elliott, it's against the law to post any of our Musicians' Union contracts, or at least our Union threatened a lawsuit against someone who recently tried to do that, SSN's or not ...so you shouldn't be putting any contract on the url. And I have a message out to Russ Wapensky who usually replies to me quickly on what he told me about this. "Drums" can mean percussion and "Guitar" can mean elec. bass on the contracts -- so now you know that contracts are not to be literally taken unless you are in the music business and know the difference of what is meant by the different ways of handling the IDing of instruments. They even have me playing "bongoes" on many of the Ray Charles contracts, hahahaha! Will get right back to you all as to what Russ says. >From Brad: >He's the third musician listed. Carol is, by the way, >the ninth name on the contract. Well darn, I'm "heartbroken", they should have had me first! :-) Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: Only Hal Blaine on drums Received: 12/21/99 11:03 pm From: Dave Mirich, Dmxxxxxcom To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com Brad Elliot wrote in part: > << Jeez, I really hate to be put in the position of disputing > Carol Kaye, but in this instance, I'm afraid she's wrong. > > and: > > Well, if you check the sessionography in the PET SOUNDS > SESSIONS booklet, which "was compiled using research > generously supplied by music historian Russ Wapensky," > you'll see that he too credits Frost with drums on "Pet > Sounds" (AKA "Run James Run"). If Russ now disputes that, > I'd be interested in learning why. > Surf's up! Brad Brad. Your response to Carol felt overly harsh to me, in contrast to the style and manner normally shown by discussants on this list. I feel it was unnecessary for you to flatly state that she was wrong on this small point. There may be additional information that surfaces sometime in the future to support her memory of this item of discussion. I would rather you had couched your comments in the context that, "It must be next to impossible to keep track of those thousands of dates and hundred of thousands of details -- but here is the information I have unearthed on this point." Dave Mirich --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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