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Spectropop V#0356

  • From: The Spectropop Group
  • Date: 12/14/99

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       Volume #0356                       December 14, 1999   
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            Clean with a slightly damp, lint free cloth       
    
    
    
    Subject:     Earl Palmer/Richie Frost & Definitions
    Received:    12/14/99 7:03 am
    From:        Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net
    To:          Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
    
    John, hi! Actually I can't imagine Richie Frost ever 
    playing alongside of the great Earl Palmer to "add" to the
    date, don't remember him doing that at all. Richie did a 
    few dates around town for a short while, was sort of a 
    3rd-stringer (sorry, have to tell it like it is) there for
    awhile, nice guy, fair drummer. 
    
    Think he worked some percussion dates maybe for Phil, 
    don't exactly remember. I did do some dates with Richie on
    drums but NEVER for Phil Spector -- some of the rock-surf 
    dates, some pop too. It was always Earl Palmer or Hal 
    Blaine who did the heavy dates (but Sharkey Hall did some 
    great dates early on on drums too, as did John Guerin a 
    little later with various producers).
    
    It's probably right what Phil said about "time" being 
    better with Earl, but don't forget that Hal started those 
    multi-tom-toms about that time too, which was a little 
    hard to get together time-wise I'm sure at first. Hal's 
    time is fine on many dates but sometimes he was a little 
    off -- Joe Osborn did say something about Hal's time too 
    in some magazine articles. Earl's time was not that great 
    in the fills tho' (if you really listen, he's rushing some
    ) but overall feel you couldn't beat Earl back then at all.
    
    It's not easy holding some of the strongest musicians in 
    the world on the same groove. No, I'd say that wasn't 
    right, never saw Richie Frost ever play 2-drum sessions 
    with anyone, let alone Earl Palmer.
    
    I was surprised to learn that Earl and Hal played together
    on the Jan & Dean dates, I had forgotten that.....no wonder
    those things groove.
    
    FYI, the engineer is the fellow who turns the knobs in the
    booth, dials in the sounds, and usually at the behest of 
    the producer. Larry Levine succeeded Stan Ross as engineer
    w/Phil and Phil liked working with Larry, who was great at 
    anticipating how Phil liked his sounds, was quick to obey 
    Phil's commands, etc..
    
    The arranger is the fellow who writes the music charts out
    for the musicians, indicating what notes, chord changes, 
    etc. he wants the musicians to play. However, and this is 
    a big however especially back then with our creative group
    of studio musicians (many from the jazz world), they did 
    count on us to invent parts too in our own special ways to
    enhance the arrangements, etc. And at first, the arranger 
    really didn't know how to write in the rock styles very 
    well, and counted on us to do "head arrangements" with 
    just chord charts - no notes (head arrangements are off 
    the top of your head, all spontaneous inventing). 
    
    Usually the arranger conducted the musicians (1-2--1-2-3 
    the count-off leading to the start of the take) too. 
    
    Carol Kaye 
    http://www.carolkaye.com/
    
    PS. Thanks for your nice words about the award, it's 
    actually an award by a woman's group on the east coast "
    Women In Music" Touchstone Awards, only 4 years old now, 
    Odetta is another being awarded too as well as two others 
    in the business part of it, their names later. It's a very
    sincere and honest award....am proud and honored to be a 
    part of it. Luncheon is at the Mariott Marquis on Feb. 1st
    2000. 
    
    
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    
    
    Subject:     Re: Richie Frost
    Received:    12/14/99 7:03 am
    From:        Rex Patton, heaxxxxxspring.com
    To:          Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
    
    At 12:34 AM 12/13/99 +0900, you wrote:
    
    To John Rausch:
    
    Richie Frost was a session drummer in the late 60's. 
    Judging from his credits, I would say he was 4th call, 
    behind Hal Blaine, Earl Palmer and Jim Gordon. He later 
    played in a keyboards/drums duo with Lee Michaels. That's 
    his simple but perfect drum break in "Do You Know What I 
    Mean." 
    
    Rex Patton 
    
    
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    
    
    Subject:     Thank you to all !
    Received:    12/14/99 7:03 am
    From:        Jimmy Cresitelli, Jimxxxxxcom
    To:          Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
    
    Thanks, everyone, for th emajor input re Reparata & the 
    Delrons, the Victorians... and Celia Paul. Very positive 
    responses, and multitudinous eMail contacts. Still would 
    love to get my hands on a pic of the Victorians, if indeed
    one exists. I've come to the conclusion that they're not 
    actually a group per se, but simply a line-up of session 
    singers. But that's definitely Darlene Love wailing in the
    back on the group's "Oh... What A Night for Love." The lead
    on the Victorians also sounds at times very much like the 
    lead on the Butterflys (who, as some of you may not know, 
    included the Crystals' Mary Thomas). Hope you all are 
    enjoying the Season! So crank up the Philles Christmas 
    album and play it on... 
    
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    
    
    Subject:     The Cake
    Received:    12/14/99 7:03 am
    From:        Ian Chapman, iaxxxxx.net
    To:          Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
    
    Lindsay enquired about the Cake:-
    
    > I once had a tape recording, taken from a radio show in
    > the late 70s, of a female group called The Cake doing a
    > song called (I think) "Baby That's You". (Not "Baby ITS
    > You"!) I think the announcer said it had been recorded at
    > Goldstar Studios. It sounded like something in the Spector
    > /girl group/Red Bird/Brill style, but I don't know whether
    > it was original 60s or some later revival.
    
    "Baby That's Me" is the title, a Jackie de Shannon/Jack 
    Nitzsche song, first done in '64 by the Fashions (and 
    Nitzsche later did it with Lesley Gore). The Cake's 
    version - in my opinion the best by far - was from '67 on 
    Decca, and again, Jack Nitzsche was involved, hence the 
    Spector sound, and yes, it would have been done at 
    Goldstar. The trio, who had a slight Shangri-la's vocal 
    sound, also had a couple of albums, "The Cake", and "A 
    Slice Of The Cake". But beware - although you will find "
    Baby That's Me" on the first album, plus another similarly
    Spectoresque track entitled "World of Dreams", Nitzsche's 
    involvement spans a small part of the first album only - 
    the remainder, on both albums, is pretty dull fare in 
    comparison. "Baby That's Me", however, remains pure 
    girl-group gold.
    
    Ian
    
    
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    
    
    Subject:     Re: The Cake
    Received:    12/14/99 7:03 am
    From:        Michael B Kelly, docxxxxx.com
    To:          Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
    
    Lindsay,
    
    I have the 2 Cake LPs.
    
    Doc
    
    
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    
    
    Subject:     Baby That's Me - The Cake
    Received:    12/14/99 7:03 am
    From:        jake tassell, xwsf.taxxxxxin.net
    To:          Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
    
    Dear Lindsay Martin:
    
    I have a copy of 'Baby That's Me' by The Cake on one of 
    those great Mick Patrick compilations released in England 
    in the mid-eighties - 'Where The Girls Are' (Don't know if
    it got a U.S. release, don't know the original label). The 
    details given on the sleeve state that the original 
    release was 1964. The song was written by Jackie DeShannon
    and Jack Nitzsche, the string arrangement was by Harold 
    Battiste and the record was engineered by Stan Ross so it 
    was almost 100% bound to have been recorded at Gold Star! 
    If you are a 'perfect echo' aficionado like I am, the 
    record is an absolute must-have. From the opening 
    spine-tingling ultra-reverbed plectrum Fender Bass-motif 
    (who on Earth would ever want to D.I. a bass again after 
    hearing that!?!) to the exquisitely slurring swimming pool
    string figures - it's an absolute beauty. Although not the 
    strongest of songs, the monumentally cavernous sound 
    achieved on this record easily challenges the best of the 
    best Spector output. Another great reverb-er on this album
    is 'Let's Break Up For A While' by The Sapphires - Produced
    by Ross Associates - so again probably recorded at Gold 
    Star. It's another remarkable piece of work - again, not a
    fantastic song, but what a sound!
    
    On a seasonal note I've been advised that anyone who likes
    The Joe Meek Sound (you remember 'Telstar' - right?) should
    check out:-
    
    http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/4326/index.htm
    
    
    I can't personally recommend all the content of this site 
    (hmm hmm) but there's loads of music on it and on their 
    latest update they've put up a bunch of unreleased 
    downloadable Joe Meek Christmas songs, which should be at 
    the very least - interesting listening.
    
    Also, belated thanks to Michael G. Marvin of WASE Radio 
    for answering some of my questions re: Gold Star 
    construction - I found it fascinating about the echo 
    chamber in the ceiling!. Anyone else got any technical 
    info on Gold Star?
    
    Spectorial Regards to All.
    Jake Tassell 
    
    
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    
    
    Subject:     Attention London + Footnote for Lindsay re: The Cake
    Received:    12/14/99 7:03 am
    From:        jake tassell, xwsf.taxxxxxin.net
    To:          Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
    
    Dear All
    
    Hope this makes the list on time. After a browse on the 
    web last night, found the following:-
    
                Wednesday 15th December
                Da Doo Ron Ron. Xmas Shindig at:-
                Po Na Na
                20 Kensington Church Street
                off High St Kensington
                London W8
                8pm - 2am
                5 on the door.
                DJs Declan, Chris and Ady Croasdell
                All The Best in Girl Group Sounds.
    
    Back to the question of 'Baby That's Me' by The Cake. I 
    checked the Kent/Ace catalogue and found that the 'Where 
    The Girls Are' compilation has been deleted. They now have
    two albums on release - 'Where The Girls Are - Volumes 1 
    and 2', but they are nothing to do with the original album, 
    so don't get confused - The Cake track is on neither of 
    them. I think a good bet for trying to find the original 
    45 would be from a Northern dealer so - get thee to the 
    Northern Soul Webring! As good as any link would be Roger 
    Stewarts' site at:-
    
               http://www.boo-ga-loo.demon.co.uk/
    
    
    If you don't find it in the catalogues I'm sure if you 
    e-mailed a couple of these sites someone would come up 
    with a copy. It's worth remembering that because of the 
    Northern and Sixties Soul boom in the UK that occurred in 
    the Seventies and Eighties, most of the US Sixties Wall of
    Sound and Girl-Group type records were plundered from 
    American warehouses by short stocky Lancastrians in penny 
    loafers and Fred Perry shirts - which is why a lot of the 
    time it's best to shop for this material in England! - 
    kind of sounds like the Tea Wars doesn't it?!! 
               Regards
    
               Jake Tassell
    
    
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    
    
    Subject:     Brian Wilson - Fire
    Received:    12/14/99 7:03 am
    From:        Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net
    To:          Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com
    
    I 2nd that opinion about the fact that yes, Brian Wilson 
    was absolutely "normal" when we cut the Fire sessions.....
    he was just having FUN on the dates, and we understood 
    that and respected him. We sort of had fun ourselves!
    
    And yes, he did have to have enourmous talent, genius type
    talent actually, to command us.....of course we worked for 
    "everybody" in LA, didn't matter if they had a "degree in 
    music" or not -- if they paid, we played. But it was sure 
    easier to work for people who knew what the heck they were
    doing.....most of those younger producers didn't and it was
    OUR JOB to help them in spite of their lack of experience 
    and their ignorance of real music....we got hits for them 
    no matter what, but we also called these kinds of dates "
    ditchdigger" dates.....get the shovels out and get it done, 
    etc. and were usually picking on each other some, 
    telling some great inside-joke one-liners (to stay awake 
    etc.), those dates were tough to work, even tho' we'd cut 
    3-4 songs which should have made it more interesting.
    
    Brian only did ONE song per 3-hour date (or longer) but it
    was interesting and we knew we were cutting history, and 
    the respect for Brian was in hushed tones believe me. All 
    of us would check each other on the other dates to make 
    sure we were "all" working for Brian......it was the top 
    of the month to work for Brian....we knew he was the 
    genius-kid. 
    
    Plus he was strong - a true leader, knew exactly what he 
    was doing (what he wanted), he paid us well, and he loved 
    being around us too, felt completely COMFORTABLE, in his 
    element being around us, and yes, we were the finest of 
    the studio musicians to cut that kind of hit-music. Such 
    was HIS TALENT, you're right! Right on the nose!
    
    He had to have the finest of musicians to PLAY HIS MUSIC, 
    it was so strong and needed our experience and expert 
    performance values to pull it off....he knew this. The 
    Fire sessions (I believe) was sort of a culmination of his
    breaking away from the dum-dum surf-rock stuff, and going 
    on to his real music career of writing/arranging/producing 
    etc. That stuff is very tame compared to some of the 
    greatest classical writing ever done (sans fire hats....
    but do we really know what it took for the classic masters
    of those early times, what did they do to "get in the mood"
    to write the great music *they* did? And weren't they 
    probably considered a little strange in their time for 
    having fun with their music too? Booooooo!).
    
    Brian is playful, and that side of him is not really known 
    much. 
    
    He was certainly in his element in the studios, doing his 
    thing - he was masterful, had fun, yes worked hard, it's 
    fun when you work hard on great music, no matter the 
    physical part of it or not, and it's a joy to see someone 
    enjoy *his talent* like Brian did....we all felt it, we 
    admired him (unlike some of others we had to work for, 
    altho' most were good) and watched him grow so fast back 
    in the 60s, once he got away from the mundane things of 
    travelling with the group, and doing the "public thing". 
    He grew like you won't believe, because he was HAPPY in 
    the studios, creating with our gang of musicians who were 
    *for* him........
    
    I hate the way so-called *expert writers* pick and judge 
    him -- they're looking at the OUTSIDE IMAGE of the man, 
    and have no couth to look for the beauty of the INSIDE of 
    the REAL MAN where Brian resides....but his real friends, 
    studio musicians, fine fans, they all know the real Brian 
    and they're correct.
    
    It wouldn't surprise me once they get more settled again 
    out here, to have a studio built-in so he can fool around 
    at home....yes, he's still GOT IT imo, and better than 
    ever. He just doesn't need some envious-jealous imitator 
    with a record contract "helping" him....his "Everything I 
    Need" track was as great as ever before it was messed with, 
    that is for sure.
    
    The man knows what he is doing!
    
    Carol Kaye   http://www.carolkaye.com/
    
    
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