__________________________________________________________ __________ __________ __________ __________ __________ S P E C T R O P O P __________ __________ __________ __________________________________________________________ Volume #0356 December 14, 1999 __________________________________________________________ Clean with a slightly damp, lint free clothSubject: Earl Palmer/Richie Frost & Definitions Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am From: Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com John, hi! Actually I can't imagine Richie Frost ever playing alongside of the great Earl Palmer to "add" to the date, don't remember him doing that at all. Richie did a few dates around town for a short while, was sort of a 3rd-stringer (sorry, have to tell it like it is) there for awhile, nice guy, fair drummer. Think he worked some percussion dates maybe for Phil, don't exactly remember. I did do some dates with Richie on drums but NEVER for Phil Spector -- some of the rock-surf dates, some pop too. It was always Earl Palmer or Hal Blaine who did the heavy dates (but Sharkey Hall did some great dates early on on drums too, as did John Guerin a little later with various producers). It's probably right what Phil said about "time" being better with Earl, but don't forget that Hal started those multi-tom-toms about that time too, which was a little hard to get together time-wise I'm sure at first. Hal's time is fine on many dates but sometimes he was a little off -- Joe Osborn did say something about Hal's time too in some magazine articles. Earl's time was not that great in the fills tho' (if you really listen, he's rushing some ) but overall feel you couldn't beat Earl back then at all. It's not easy holding some of the strongest musicians in the world on the same groove. No, I'd say that wasn't right, never saw Richie Frost ever play 2-drum sessions with anyone, let alone Earl Palmer. I was surprised to learn that Earl and Hal played together on the Jan & Dean dates, I had forgotten that.....no wonder those things groove. FYI, the engineer is the fellow who turns the knobs in the booth, dials in the sounds, and usually at the behest of the producer. Larry Levine succeeded Stan Ross as engineer w/Phil and Phil liked working with Larry, who was great at anticipating how Phil liked his sounds, was quick to obey Phil's commands, etc.. The arranger is the fellow who writes the music charts out for the musicians, indicating what notes, chord changes, etc. he wants the musicians to play. However, and this is a big however especially back then with our creative group of studio musicians (many from the jazz world), they did count on us to invent parts too in our own special ways to enhance the arrangements, etc. And at first, the arranger really didn't know how to write in the rock styles very well, and counted on us to do "head arrangements" with just chord charts - no notes (head arrangements are off the top of your head, all spontaneous inventing). Usually the arranger conducted the musicians (1-2--1-2-3 the count-off leading to the start of the take) too. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ PS. Thanks for your nice words about the award, it's actually an award by a woman's group on the east coast " Women In Music" Touchstone Awards, only 4 years old now, Odetta is another being awarded too as well as two others in the business part of it, their names later. It's a very sincere and honest award....am proud and honored to be a part of it. Luncheon is at the Mariott Marquis on Feb. 1st 2000. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: Richie Frost Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am From: Rex Patton, heaxxxxxspring.com To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com At 12:34 AM 12/13/99 +0900, you wrote: To John Rausch: Richie Frost was a session drummer in the late 60's. Judging from his credits, I would say he was 4th call, behind Hal Blaine, Earl Palmer and Jim Gordon. He later played in a keyboards/drums duo with Lee Michaels. That's his simple but perfect drum break in "Do You Know What I Mean." Rex Patton --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Thank you to all ! Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am From: Jimmy Cresitelli, Jimxxxxxcom To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com Thanks, everyone, for th emajor input re Reparata & the Delrons, the Victorians... and Celia Paul. Very positive responses, and multitudinous eMail contacts. Still would love to get my hands on a pic of the Victorians, if indeed one exists. I've come to the conclusion that they're not actually a group per se, but simply a line-up of session singers. But that's definitely Darlene Love wailing in the back on the group's "Oh... What A Night for Love." The lead on the Victorians also sounds at times very much like the lead on the Butterflys (who, as some of you may not know, included the Crystals' Mary Thomas). Hope you all are enjoying the Season! So crank up the Philles Christmas album and play it on... --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: The Cake Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am From: Ian Chapman, iaxxxxx.net To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com Lindsay enquired about the Cake:- > I once had a tape recording, taken from a radio show in > the late 70s, of a female group called The Cake doing a > song called (I think) "Baby That's You". (Not "Baby ITS > You"!) I think the announcer said it had been recorded at > Goldstar Studios. It sounded like something in the Spector > /girl group/Red Bird/Brill style, but I don't know whether > it was original 60s or some later revival. "Baby That's Me" is the title, a Jackie de Shannon/Jack Nitzsche song, first done in '64 by the Fashions (and Nitzsche later did it with Lesley Gore). The Cake's version - in my opinion the best by far - was from '67 on Decca, and again, Jack Nitzsche was involved, hence the Spector sound, and yes, it would have been done at Goldstar. The trio, who had a slight Shangri-la's vocal sound, also had a couple of albums, "The Cake", and "A Slice Of The Cake". But beware - although you will find " Baby That's Me" on the first album, plus another similarly Spectoresque track entitled "World of Dreams", Nitzsche's involvement spans a small part of the first album only - the remainder, on both albums, is pretty dull fare in comparison. "Baby That's Me", however, remains pure girl-group gold. Ian --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: The Cake Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am From: Michael B Kelly, docxxxxx.com To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com Lindsay, I have the 2 Cake LPs. Doc --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Baby That's Me - The Cake Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am From: jake tassell, xwsf.taxxxxxin.net To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com Dear Lindsay Martin: I have a copy of 'Baby That's Me' by The Cake on one of those great Mick Patrick compilations released in England in the mid-eighties - 'Where The Girls Are' (Don't know if it got a U.S. release, don't know the original label). The details given on the sleeve state that the original release was 1964. The song was written by Jackie DeShannon and Jack Nitzsche, the string arrangement was by Harold Battiste and the record was engineered by Stan Ross so it was almost 100% bound to have been recorded at Gold Star! If you are a 'perfect echo' aficionado like I am, the record is an absolute must-have. From the opening spine-tingling ultra-reverbed plectrum Fender Bass-motif (who on Earth would ever want to D.I. a bass again after hearing that!?!) to the exquisitely slurring swimming pool string figures - it's an absolute beauty. Although not the strongest of songs, the monumentally cavernous sound achieved on this record easily challenges the best of the best Spector output. Another great reverb-er on this album is 'Let's Break Up For A While' by The Sapphires - Produced by Ross Associates - so again probably recorded at Gold Star. It's another remarkable piece of work - again, not a fantastic song, but what a sound! On a seasonal note I've been advised that anyone who likes The Joe Meek Sound (you remember 'Telstar' - right?) should check out:- http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/4326/index.htm I can't personally recommend all the content of this site (hmm hmm) but there's loads of music on it and on their latest update they've put up a bunch of unreleased downloadable Joe Meek Christmas songs, which should be at the very least - interesting listening. Also, belated thanks to Michael G. Marvin of WASE Radio for answering some of my questions re: Gold Star construction - I found it fascinating about the echo chamber in the ceiling!. Anyone else got any technical info on Gold Star? Spectorial Regards to All. Jake Tassell --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Attention London + Footnote for Lindsay re: The Cake Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am From: jake tassell, xwsf.taxxxxxin.net To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com Dear All Hope this makes the list on time. After a browse on the web last night, found the following:- Wednesday 15th December Da Doo Ron Ron. Xmas Shindig at:- Po Na Na 20 Kensington Church Street off High St Kensington London W8 8pm - 2am £5 on the door. DJs Declan, Chris and Ady Croasdell All The Best in Girl Group Sounds. Back to the question of 'Baby That's Me' by The Cake. I checked the Kent/Ace catalogue and found that the 'Where The Girls Are' compilation has been deleted. They now have two albums on release - 'Where The Girls Are - Volumes 1 and 2', but they are nothing to do with the original album, so don't get confused - The Cake track is on neither of them. I think a good bet for trying to find the original 45 would be from a Northern dealer so - get thee to the Northern Soul Webring! As good as any link would be Roger Stewarts' site at:- http://www.boo-ga-loo.demon.co.uk/ If you don't find it in the catalogues I'm sure if you e-mailed a couple of these sites someone would come up with a copy. It's worth remembering that because of the Northern and Sixties Soul boom in the UK that occurred in the Seventies and Eighties, most of the US Sixties Wall of Sound and Girl-Group type records were plundered from American warehouses by short stocky Lancastrians in penny loafers and Fred Perry shirts - which is why a lot of the time it's best to shop for this material in England! - kind of sounds like the Tea Wars doesn't it?!! Regards Jake Tassell --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Brian Wilson - Fire Received: 12/14/99 7:03 am From: Carol Kaye, caroxxxxxhlink.net To: Spectropop List, spectxxxxxities.com I 2nd that opinion about the fact that yes, Brian Wilson was absolutely "normal" when we cut the Fire sessions..... he was just having FUN on the dates, and we understood that and respected him. We sort of had fun ourselves! And yes, he did have to have enourmous talent, genius type talent actually, to command us.....of course we worked for "everybody" in LA, didn't matter if they had a "degree in music" or not -- if they paid, we played. But it was sure easier to work for people who knew what the heck they were doing.....most of those younger producers didn't and it was OUR JOB to help them in spite of their lack of experience and their ignorance of real music....we got hits for them no matter what, but we also called these kinds of dates " ditchdigger" dates.....get the shovels out and get it done, etc. and were usually picking on each other some, telling some great inside-joke one-liners (to stay awake etc.), those dates were tough to work, even tho' we'd cut 3-4 songs which should have made it more interesting. Brian only did ONE song per 3-hour date (or longer) but it was interesting and we knew we were cutting history, and the respect for Brian was in hushed tones believe me. All of us would check each other on the other dates to make sure we were "all" working for Brian......it was the top of the month to work for Brian....we knew he was the genius-kid. Plus he was strong - a true leader, knew exactly what he was doing (what he wanted), he paid us well, and he loved being around us too, felt completely COMFORTABLE, in his element being around us, and yes, we were the finest of the studio musicians to cut that kind of hit-music. Such was HIS TALENT, you're right! Right on the nose! He had to have the finest of musicians to PLAY HIS MUSIC, it was so strong and needed our experience and expert performance values to pull it off....he knew this. The Fire sessions (I believe) was sort of a culmination of his breaking away from the dum-dum surf-rock stuff, and going on to his real music career of writing/arranging/producing etc. That stuff is very tame compared to some of the greatest classical writing ever done (sans fire hats.... but do we really know what it took for the classic masters of those early times, what did they do to "get in the mood" to write the great music *they* did? And weren't they probably considered a little strange in their time for having fun with their music too? Booooooo!). Brian is playful, and that side of him is not really known much. He was certainly in his element in the studios, doing his thing - he was masterful, had fun, yes worked hard, it's fun when you work hard on great music, no matter the physical part of it or not, and it's a joy to see someone enjoy *his talent* like Brian did....we all felt it, we admired him (unlike some of others we had to work for, altho' most were good) and watched him grow so fast back in the 60s, once he got away from the mundane things of travelling with the group, and doing the "public thing". He grew like you won't believe, because he was HAPPY in the studios, creating with our gang of musicians who were *for* him........ I hate the way so-called *expert writers* pick and judge him -- they're looking at the OUTSIDE IMAGE of the man, and have no couth to look for the beauty of the INSIDE of the REAL MAN where Brian resides....but his real friends, studio musicians, fine fans, they all know the real Brian and they're correct. It wouldn't surprise me once they get more settled again out here, to have a studio built-in so he can fool around at home....yes, he's still GOT IT imo, and better than ever. He just doesn't need some envious-jealous imitator with a record contract "helping" him....his "Everything I Need" track was as great as ever before it was messed with, that is for sure. The man knows what he is doing! Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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