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Spectropop V#0299

  • From: The Spectropop Group
  • Date: 08/02/99

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       Volume #0299                           July 16, 1999   
            America's First Family of Fine Recordings        
    Subject:     Wannabes/Manson, Don't Go There
    Received:    08/02/99 1:27 pm
    From:        Don Richardson,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Glenn wrote:
    >Interestingly, many of these folks later had associations 
    >with the Monkees project.
    Glenn, it was kind of interesting plugging in some of the 
    names and seeing the nexus of connections. For example, 
    Chadwick was a producer on a number of their albums. 
    Considering the criticism that they were merely a "plastic" 
    band, it's significant to note the talent and support 
    from some very significant people.
    Tom Simon wrote:
    >It seems to me I heard that at one point Charles Manson
    >had wanted to be a Monkee. Can anyone confirm this?
    Don't know where and when that rumor got started, but it 
    was debunked years ago. Manson was serving time in a 
    California prison for (I think) armed robbery, when the 
    auditions were held. Whatever the charges, he was 
    incarcerated at the time. 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     a horrible mistake
    Received:    08/02/99 1:27 pm
    From:        WASE RADIO,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    To Tom Simon:
    At the time of the Monkees audition, Charles Manson was in
    jail.  He was freed in April, 1967, which was a horrible 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Manson & the Monkees
    Received:    08/02/99 1:27 pm
    From:        Glenn Sadin,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Tom sez...
    >It seems to me I heard that at one point Charles Manson
    >had wanted to be a Monkee. Can anyone confirm this?
    This is an untrue rumor. I believe Manson was in jail 
    during the time of the Monkees' auditions.
      Glenn Sadin
      Guitarist, vocalist and songwriter for THE BERKELEY SQUIRES:
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: "hey hey we're the mansons"...
    Received:    08/02/99 1:27 pm
    From:        Mr Smokes-Too-Much,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Tom Simon asked:
    >It seems to me I heard that at one point Charles Manson
    >had wanted to be a Monkee. Can anyone confirm this?
    It's one of those myths. The sick f**k (which I think I 
    can call him without anyone objecting to my language) 
    remained in prison until 1967.
    BTW, Manson did put his hands in the LA musical pie --- 
    did you, Carol Kaye, deal with him on any tracking dates 
    with session musicians? Hope you didn't! Amazing that 
    people today can find it cool what he did....hope he's 
    locked away forever.
    On a similarly twisted note: Does anyone find the 'Sieg 
    Heil' bit in The Sagittarius' "Hotel Indiscreet" offensive? 
    Gary Usher seemed to have a somewhat perverse sense of 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: Titus Turner
    Received:    08/02/99 1:28 pm
    From:        Brad Elliott,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    DickyG wrote:
    >I did find out that Titus Turner is (was) real. Born in
    >1933 (Atlanta) and died in 1984 (also Atlanta). While he
    >did record sporadically in the '50's, he was best known as
    >a songwriter...his specialty was jump blues and R&B.
    >Although I couldn't find "I Want To Get Married" or "I'm
    >Gonna Get Married" on a list of his recordings, I will
    >assume that he did cut it at some point and that is the
    >recording that Dave heard on the Dick Clark show.
    I recognized the name "Titus Turner" from growing up down 
    south and so started looking in my reference books to see 
    what I could find. Turns out that he more than recorded 
    "sporadically in the '50s." His recorded catalog is more 
    than three dozen singles, from 1951 clear through to the 
    end of the '60s! Where I recall his name is in connection 
    with a 1961 R&B single, "Sound Off," on the Jamie label. 
    Based on the old military cadence, it landed in the 
    Billboard Hot 100 (but not the Top 40), but in the south 
    it was a much bigger hit. I remember hearing it as an 
    oldie in the mid and late '60s. Surely, Dickie, you 
    remember it, too?
    Anyway, Goldmine's "Standard Catalog of American Records" 
    has the most extensive list of his records. It appears he 
    started on the Okeh label (9 singles) in the early '50s, 
    then moved to Mercury's Wing imprint (3 singles) and 
    Atlantic (1 disc) in the mid '50s, King (8 45s) in the 
    late '50s, and Jamie (5 singles) in 1961-62. After that, 
    it was a succession of labels, some of them small, none of
    them for more than a couple of records -- in order: Enjoy, 
    Columbia, Atco, Murbo, Philips and Josie. His last single 
    (ironically titled "His Funeral, My Trial") was released 
    in 1969.
    His only album appears to have been on Jamie -- SOUND OFF 
    in 1961, to capitalize on his one hit.
    But in all that I turned up on him, I struck out just as 
    bad as Dickie did. Nowhere did I find anything about "I 
    Want to Get Married" or "I'm Gonna Get Married." Maybe it 
    was something that never got past the test pressing stage.
    BTW, Turner's reputation as a songwriter seems to rest on 
    the fact that Little Willie John had a big R&B hit with 
    Turner's "All Around the World," but it wasn't a case of 
    Turner writing the song and shopping it around. Rather, 
    Turner recorded it first (on Wing) and John covered it 
    after the fact. Dave Marsh thought John's version good 
    enough to include in his list of the 1001 Greatest Single 
    Ever Made (see Marsh's book, "The Heart of Rock and Soul"). 
    Interestingly, Marsh called Turner's original version "a
    pedestrian Lloyd Price knockoff." Looking at Turner's 
    discography, I have to wonder if he didn't frequently play
    off a vocal similarity to Price -- one of his singles (King, 
    1959) was "The Return of Staggolee."
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     For Carol Kaye Re: Girl Groups
    Received:    08/02/99 1:28 pm
    From:        Jimmy Cresitelli, Jimxxxxxcom
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Hi! I'm really enjoying and learning from your very 
    knowledgeable and detailed posts. Thank you! My query: 
    while in the studio, did you do much interacting with the 
    girl-group vocalists you recorded for? I'm specifically 
    curious because history seems to lend itself toward 
    creating legends regarding producers-as-Svengali when they
    were dealing with their teenaged charges. Were the girls 
    really just anonymous cogs within the machinery? I realize
    that there are many parts to a machine, but so many of 
    these kids have come down through history with seemingly 
    NO say (save Darlene, Ronnie, and Dee Dee Kennibrew...). 
    I'm curious if these young ladies ever expressed any 
    thoughts, opinions, and input about the music they were 
    creating... and if anybody was listening? We're familiar 
    with Phil's attitude regarding the fact that they were 
    just voices, and easily replaceable in most cases, but I 
    find it hard to completely accept that as coda. Any 
    opinions? P.S. If I could turn back time, I would love to 
    have been present at the sessions for "River Deep" with 
    Tina and crew... yesss!
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: A Travesty
    Received:    08/02/99 1:28 pm
    From:        WILLIAM STOS,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    > She's also the most recognizable name on the list, which 
    > is how they choose the winner on this survey. 
    The problem I had was that the only reason she was winning
    this poll is because die-hard Diana fans had banded 
    together to vote her in. Same with the Supremes. I'm on a 
    Supremes newsgroup and when it was announced one day they 
    only had seven votes, by the next day they had over 100. I
    wanted people on this newsgroup to know about the poll, 
    since I didn't even get a chance. It's sad that just 
    because Aretha's large fan base didn't find out about it, 
    she didn't have too many votes. It was way too subjective,
    and hopefully it was made clear that VH1 fans, only mostly 
    VH1 fans were voting. 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: Ronnie Spector
    Received:    08/02/99 1:27 pm
    From:        Shelby
    To:          Spectropop List,
    For all of you Ronnie Spector fans out there, Ronnie will be 
    at the Sunset Station Casino in Henderson, Nevada on 9-11xxxxx0 PM (PST). 
    The Sunset Casino is located on Sunset Road
    in Henderson. 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: Joe E. Ross
    Received:    08/02/99 1:28 pm
    From:        Big L,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Did he really? Or are you kidding? I'm a big fan of Joe. E. 
    >PS: Upon second thought, i _would_ care if Joe E. Ross won. 
    >Has anyone out there ever heard his great record, "Ooh, 
    Big L
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     What does he do all day?
    Received:    08/02/99 1:27 pm
    From:        Ray Taylor,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Can any one tell me what Phil Spector does all day long 
    here in 1999!
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Re: Rupert Holmes
    Received:    08/02/99 1:28 pm
    From:        Derrick
    To:          Spectropop List,
    >I've been obsessing on ...Rupert Holmes.
    He's obsessable! "Widescreen" has the great "Terminal". He
    did an album for Streisand, upon which she does "Widescreen. 
    I also like the self-titled follow up to "Partners in 
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Nashville Cats
    Received:    08/02/99 1:28 pm
    From:        Paul Urbahns, Pauluxxxxxcom
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Carole Kaye wrote:
    << Yes, I agree, there's a lot of fine musicians in Nashville, 
     always have been but not for the variety of styles 
     needed back in the 60s, from soul to rock to surf, to R&B,
     to Motown to Pop, to latin-soul to gospel to teeny-bopper 
     stuff....we seemed to steal the hit-making label away from
     NY even.  >>
    I have studied Nashville music from the outside for many 
    years and I found Bill Pursell's (Our Winter Love) comment
    about right. He said something to the effect that you could
    get it all in Nashville. The same musicians that would play
    country in the studios during the day would be playing jazz
    at the Carousel Club in the evening(or one of the other 
    clubs) and also be playing in the Nashville Symphony 
    concerts on the weekends. In fact Roy Orbison (and most 
    anybody who wanted strings on their records) had to use 
    symphony players because for years during the Nashville 
    Sound boom of the 60s there was not a studio string 
    section for hire. Of course things have changed today but 
    in the 60s there were three major studios and about 40 or 
    50 musicians that did 99 percent of the Nashville sessions.
    Paul Urbahns
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Nashville
    Received:    08/02/99 1:28 pm
    From:        Carol Kaye,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    I wanted to say I didn't mean that today Nashville "can't"
    do all the multi-styles of music we were able to more or 
    less create head-arrangements for back in the 60s.....
    Nashville is certainly where it's at for recording these 
    days and one can record any style with all the great 
    talents they have living and working there now. Nashville 
    has long had many huge great talents working and living 
    I was just trying to stress all the backgrounds and work 
    experiences of the group of us in LA during the 60s, why I
    felt that we had it all going pretty well out here, that's 
    all. Practically all the recording work is still in 
    Nashville for sure. 
    Good luck with that awful heat wave....I just got back 
    from the NAMM music trade show in Nashville (there 3 days)
    and never experiened heat and humidity quite that bad 
    together like that...and have lived in 120 degree weather 
    but dry. 
    Carol Kaye
    PS. Gaylord, I'm with you, pretty strange poll - wonder if
    people "listen" with their eyes these days. And yes, Bob 
    Alcivar is just a GREAT man to work for both talent-wise 
    and as a fine person, he's one of the best...his music is 
    hauntingly beautiful.
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------
    Subject:     Cloud Eleven & Outrageous Cherry
    Received:    08/02/99 1:28 pm
    From:        Del-Fi Promo,
    To:          Spectropop List,
    Hello everyone,
    Just wanted to make sure that any of you Pop fans in town 
    for L.A.'s IPO music festival knew that L.A.'s own Cloud 
    Eleven and Detroit's Outrageous Cherry -- new bands on 
    Del-Fi Records' DF2K imprint -- will be playing on the 
    same bill, next Tuesday, August 3rd, at SPACELAND on the 
    last day of this year's International Pop Overthrow music 
    It may be the last night of IPO, but don't miss this one 
    if you can help it!! The bands start at 7:30pm (OC go on 
    at 9:30pm, Cloud Eleven at 10pm).
    Cloud Eleven's self-titled CD -- released July 13th -- has
    already been getting quite a lot of notice. Here's just two
    samples of the kind of praise this great CD has received so
    "It's tempting, in the face of such perfectly-executed 
    retro magic as this, to make up a story about discovering 
    a long-lost masterpiece from the late Sixties: 'A secret 
    collaboration between the Beach Boys, Beatles and Rolling 
    Stones, the Cloud Eleven sessions were tied-up in record 
    company legal battles for years.' But instead of Brian 
    Wilson, John Lennon and Brian Jones, we have a new sonic 
    master by the name of Rick Gallego, who wrote all but one 
    tune and played everything except drums and strings. It's 
    an echo-effect, soft-fuzz and sitar-flavored affair, full 
    of double-tracked vocals that are always just on the verge
    of becoming too pretty to still be rock..." (Scott Laurence, 
    Immedia Wire Service, July 12th -- syndicated in 100+
    newspapers in Northa America).
    "Shimmering pop that will put sunshine in your heart." 
    (L.A. Weekly music scribe, Dan Epstein)
    Outrageous Cherry will also be playing THE MARTINI LOUNGE 
    on Monday, August 2nd..., with terrific opening acts Small
    Stone & Black Rebel Motorcycle Club (yeah!!). This is a 
    great bill --- I saw Small Stone last night and they're 
    like a cross between a psych-Byrds & mod-Creation/Who.
    Monday's show will be Outrageous Cherry's west coast debut. 
    And how does one describe OC? All Media Guide 
    ( says they sound "something like The Shadows 
    of Knight PRODUCED BY PHIL SPECTOR!" [caps are mine for 
    Outrageous Cherry's DF2K debut -- Out There In The Dark --
    will hit the streets on October 5th, by the way.
    See you there!
    Bryan Thomas
    --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]--------------------

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