__________________________________________________________ __________ __________ __________ __________ __________ S P E C T R O P O P __________ __________ __________ __________________________________________________________ Volume #0282 June 29, 1999 __________________________________________________________ Don't touch that dial...Subject: TO-John Rausch Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am From: Diane renay, CEIInvxxxxm To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com Dear John: Regarding oldies being used to pitch hamburgers, macaroni & cheese, etc. I don't imagine that my recording of Navy Blue would be used to sell these types of products, I couldn't see the connection. I wouldn't be surprised however, if a company such as "Old Navy," were to pick up on tying my song into a commercial for them one day. As far as my feelings would go - if, let's say, this particular company chose to use Navy Blue to promote their store, it would all depend on how they used my recording. If it were done in "tongue & cheek," in good humor, and made people feel good about wearing clothes that they purchased at "Old Navy," it would not bother me, in fact I would be flattered that they chose to use my recording. However, I don't think I would like it very much if my song was used for pitching food products, that's kind of CHEESY, ha, ha!!! Also, regarding compensation for using oldies for commercials....I believe that if only the first 8 bars of music are used, they do not have to pay any royalties to anyone. If this is so, of course it is not fair to the writers, or the artists who are singing the songs. However, in these times in which we live, there are many things in life that are not fair. Unfortunately, for the writers, and recording artists of oldies, such as myself, many of the old songs are being put to CD's, and no one is able to receive any royalties for their work! At this time, there are several CD's on the market sold here and overseas, that have many of my recordings on them, along with lots of other oldies, and I nor any of the other artists are receiving compensation in the form of royalties. So, I guess you might say that many oldies recording artists, who for the most part do not receive any monetary compensation for the use of our music, are at least receiving a little recognition instead when our songs are used to pitch commercials, whether the commercials are good or bad! I hope that I was able to answer your question to your satisfaction. Sincerely: Diane Renay <[:>) --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Commercials w/hits Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am From: Carol Kaye, carolkxxxxink.net To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com John Rausch, you ask my opinion about using old hit records for commercials. I think it's good business for one thing.....those hits were well-done, good recognizable tunes that draw the listener in to hearing them. And the nostalgia is wonderful....many feels akin to the older hit records, especially when considering the alternative of listening to the music of today (excuse me, some of today's music is pretty good but not much...it was just the opposite back then in the 60s). Plus the musicians get a few coins in royalties too... everyone benefits. I recorded a lot of commercials back in the 60s and some in the 70s too...it's a fine art, and back then you had the likes of the wonderful Bob Thompson; even Billy Strange did some...they were all the finest of the arrangers, etc. But nowadays, that's not exactly what is going on with the synthesizer users cutting in on the business...so most commercials are not that signatory of great talents. A few are (Nissan ad etc.) but most, like the music changes, are pretty drab and some downright awful and stupid. It's best to use the old hits, cheaper, and you've got some class then. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: Jingle Jangle Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am From: Jamie Lepage, le_page_xxxxies.com To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com john rausch wrote: >what are your thoughts on T.V./Radio ads using...old hit >songs for their commercials? I'm not against this practice at all. >...who gets the profit from this practice? It depends on the use. If the original recording is used, then those interested parties connected with both master rights and publishing rights profit. Old contracts typically did not address profit sharing on secondary uses of masters or use of songs in ads. However, in practice it is typical for the master reuse fee to be shared equally between the master owner and the artist. Publishing varies, but certainly songwriters profit from use of songs in ads. >does anyone involved with the original recording have >any say in this practice? Approval rights too were usually not addressed in old contracts, but I would think more often than not writers and artists are consulted on these ad uses before the licenses are done, if for no other reason than to circumvent potential lawsuits from the writers/artists. >I would rather remember all my favorite >hits of my youth the way they were intended - on the radio >or at home in all their glory. Your opinion is certainly a valid one and obviously comes from a deep affection and appreciation for the music. It's an opinion shared by many music fans. Today, though, many view such uses as giving "added value" to a song/master. Stand By Me is a good example. For decades it was merely one of many fine Leiber/Stoller productions on Ben E King/ Drifters. But the use in a Levi's commercial and a few soundtracks elevated the song to that of a standard or "evergreen" as such songs are often called. Theoretically, various secondary uses of Stand By Me might have helped generate sufficient interest in the Drifters to justify the great Drifters box that came out recently. If so, bring on the ads! >...those great hits play as a soundtrack to my youth not >as the latest jingle to sell me something I don`t want or >need. I share that feeling, but keep in mind that for many, this music is NOT the soundtrack to their youth. Many hear these songs for the first time in ads and soundtracks. In fact, much of the music I listen to today is not the music of my youth. For instance, I never heard Diane Renay's Unbelievable Guy until a few years ago, or anything on the Girls Scene CD until Ian wrote about it here on the list. But if the Diane Renay master was used in an advert with a man's voice tagging "Unbelievable savings at Acme", I for one wouldn't be offended. I would think the ad agency had good taste in music. :-) What I do find objectionable is when a song is rewritten and re-recorded by jingle singers specifically with a product in mind. For instance, I wouldn't want to hear Strawberry Fields Forever rewritten as "Strawbery Crush for flavour" etc. But when music is used tastefully in ads, as it often is in Levi's commercials, I say why not? I can still listen to the old 45s or elpees at home in their original context. Just one person's opinion, though... Jamie --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: Jingle Jangle Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am From: Michael "Doc Rock" Kelly, docroxxxxom To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com Well, I for one have been keeping a log of commercials that use oldies. I started keeping track in 1978. Doc --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Pop Songs used in commericals Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am From: Paul Urbahns, Paulurbxxxxm To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com John Rausch writes: >what are your thoughts on T.V./Radio ads using all >the old hit songs for their commercials? Brian Wilson has been making a good living off of this commerical use of beach Boy songs for years. Matter fact they probably have the largest number of songs converted to commericals than any other writer. >who gets the profit from this practice? Obviously the >copyright owner, I imagine, but does anyone involved with >the original recording have any say in this practice? Normally this is a copyright issue. The advertising company gets permission from the publisher of the song to use it in the commericals and they normally use studio singers to resing the song. Very seldom is the original record used because unless you have multitrack studio tapes and don't want any chages to the lyric it's not practical. The resung versions are the length needed for the commerical. Some samples of commerical uses are: Radio: This is sometimes different that the TV version of the same ad, simply because radio is audio and you can't show something so everything has to be described. That means they usually make whats known in the business as a "donut". That is a version of the song that starts out singing then goes to an intrumental bridge (usually 1/2 the total playing time) This is were the announcer can say "Come on by randy's Used car Imporimum for the best buys in used cars" or some such commerical Then the singing comes back to close the commerical. It's called a donut because there is no singing in the middle. I am not sure how the royalties are calculated, but I have been told that the songwriter receives something everytime the commerical is played on radio or television. I have seen a few commericals where they used the original recording. A good example is Louis Armstrong's "What A Wonderful World". But Armstrong had such a unique voice that it would be hard to copy his delivery and make it sould anything like the original. In the case of the original singer being consulted, if they are still in the business and actively working then they may be hired to do the re-sing. But you have to remember, even singers still working don't sound like they did 30 years ago. Brenda Lee recently recut about 20 of her greatest hits and they had to play them in different keys than the original recordings because her voice has cjanged and she has been working professionally since she was about 12 years old, and still does. One commercial song I have been looking for is Lou Christie's recording of Wouldn't It Be Nice, the Beach Boys song, which was done for a car television commerical (and probably the radio versions too). I always though it waould make a good addition to a Lou Christie CD but apparently nobody else does. So they use well known siongers sometimes in the re-sings but seldom the original singer. Paul Urbahns former-DJ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: Diane Renay Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am From: DJ JimmyB, DJJimmyxxxxm To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com In a message dated 6/27/99 10:37:39 AM, you wrote: >(Diane, this song rocks!) Diane Renay's "Blue Navy" LP was spotted yesterday in Boston (where we have fantabulash used record shops by the by) on the wall with their other "catches" with a $39.99 price tag decorating its upper right hand corner. Encased in the plastic jacket so popular with we collectors, it was begging me to buy it. Diane of course looked resplendent all decked out with her state-of-the art 1964 "do" swooping down and framing her face. Ya looked great Ms K! Jimmy Botticelli "Jimmy's Easy" airs on 88.1FM, WMBR in Cambridge MA from 6 -8 am on Tuesdays. To hear it on your 'puter, download Real Audio (its free) and go to www.wmbr.org after you calculate when it will be audible in your neighborhood (it's live at our website) --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: music history Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am From: james fisher, JHFAxxxxnet To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com Jim Cassidy mentioned Ian Whitcomb's book "After the Ball" as a good source regarding the background of pop music and it's ancestors...indeed it is. Ian also put out another tome on the whirly-gig of early/mid '60s pop and his own fleeting brush with fame--"Rock Odyssey". If anyone wants a good read on the LA music scene,circa 1965, ( and who doesn't for crying out loud??) then get ahold of this book ....even if you don't learn anything new you will definitely get a laugh out of his encounters with Sonny and Cher and many of the other luminaries who populated the Sunset Strip at the time. A revised edition came out a year or two ago and I'm sure you can order it through any of the larger chains. He goes from upper-class English twit at Trinity to Has-Been pop star in LA almost in one fell swoop. It's a great yarn, try and check it out. Regards, Jim. --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: Lilys...and more Brazilian music Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am From: Stig O'Hara, wuo0xxxx.se To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com Dave Mirich wrote: >Tobias, you sounded downright sure of yourself when you >shot off that the Lily's most recent CD was their 4th. >What gives? Oh, I'm probably wrong. I always give the impression of knowing more than I do so don't take anything I say seriously :-) On another note, I got some tapes of Brazilian music in the mail today. Gal Costa's two first albums, which both are brilliant and in the same style as her "Baby" contribution to the "Tropicalia" compilation last year. It's kind of modernized bossa nova with brilliant string and flute arrangements, with Costa's breezy voice floating on top. Several of the songs are duets with Gilberto Gil, another Brazilian artist and composer (Os Mutantes covered several of his songs, as did many other Brazilian artists). Milton Nascimento's "Courage" is even better, but quite similar to Costa. Again, huge string and flute/oboe arrangements dominate the moody neo-bossa music. What makes his music so original, I guess, is the chord changes which are completely unpredictable, and take the music into unexpected directions. You don't have to be a musician to notice this, it's something you hear instantly and it really does make the music sound really fresh, atleast compared to the I IV V rock'n'roll played on the radio. Also...heard a track by Ladybug Transistor called "Vale Of Cashmere", and it's ok I guess. It's pretty much stolen directly from Stereolab's "Cybelie's Reverie" (which, btw, is arranged by the High Llamas' Sean O'Hagan)...well, it's better than to sound like Oasis :) Tobias --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Re: Spectropop TO-Will Stos Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am From: Diane renay, CEIInvxxxxm To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com Dear Will: I would like to ask about the Girl Group Gazette and the other oldies publications you mentioned. What are these? I have never heard of them. Thanks: Diane Renay <[:>) --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: top ten(s) Received: 06/29/99 1:33 am From: Stewart Mason, flamixxxxom To: Spectropop List, spectroxxxxies.com Okay, I wasn't going to play, seeing as how those of you who know me know that I have a lot of trouble limiting myself to ten of *anything*, much less music. So with the caveat that I actually had to split this into THREE lists and that there are several dozen other songs per list that I'd be prefectly happy to have on here -- as it is, two of the three have 11 entries! -- and that the ranking will probably have changed between the time I send this and the time the digest shows up, here goes: THE CANON (that is, I love pretty much everything these artists did, but these are the highest highs): 1. Caroline No -- The Beach Boys (my favorite song of all time) 1. (tie) You Don't Own Me -- Lesley Gore (my just-barely-second-favorite song of all time) 2. Seven and Seven Is -- Love 3. And Your Bird Can Sing -- The Beatles 4. Waterloo Sunset -- The Kinks 5. Painter Man -- The Creation 6. She's Not There -- The Zombies 7. Sunday Morning -- The Velvet Underground 8. Porpoise Song -- The Monkees 9. You're Gonna Miss Me -- The 13th Floor Elevators (the Texas National Anthem, at least amongst my generation of Texans) 10. Be My Baby -- The Ronettes (Phil's second greatest production -- see below) GREAT AMERICAN SINGLES: 1. Summer Samba -- Astrud Gilberto (should actually be in the canon, but as wonderful as her other songs are, this is simply head and shoulders above) 1. (tie) Walk On By -- Dionne Warwick (ditto) 2. This Could Be the Night -- Modern Folk Quartet (Phil's greatest) 3. Cherish -- The Association 4. Sweet Pea -- Tommy Roe (dig the way the drummer's using James Brown's "Funky Drummer" beat four years before James did!) 5. Lightnin' Strikes -- Lou Christie 6. Cynthia Loves -- The Robbs 7. Stained Glass Window -- The Yellow Balloon 8. Surfer Dan -- The Turtles 9. Laugh Laugh -- The Beau Brummels 10. Weeping of the Willow -- Harry Nilsson (NOTE: This contains nothing from Van Dyke Parks' SONG CYCLE because I can't tear myself to limit myself to one track. If I included the album, it would be around #6.) GREAT BRITISH SINGLES: 1. Downtown -- Petula Clark (am I the only one who thinks this is the saddest song ever recorded?) 2. The Intro and the Outro -- The Bonzo Dog Band 3. I Can Hear the Grass Grow -- The Move (just barely edges out "Flowers in the Rain" and "Night of Fear") 4. Substitute -- The Who 5. Night Time Girl -- Twice As Much 6. Ferry Cross the Mersey -- Gerry and the Pacemakers 7. Astronomy Domine -- Pink Floyd 8. All Of Us -- Nirvana 9. Have You Seen Your Mother Baby Standing in the Shadow -- The Rolling Stones 10. Smashed Blocked -- John's Children Stewart ************************FLAMINGO RECORDS********************** Stewart Allensworth Mason Box 40172 "New Mexico: Cockfighting's legal Albuquerque NM 87196 and we got Plague!" www.rt66.com/~flamingo ******************HAPPY MUSIC FOR NICE PEOPLE***************** --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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