__________________________________________________________ __________ __________ __________ __________ __________ S P E C T R O P O P __________ __________ __________ __________________________________________________________ Volume #0214 January 20, 1999 __________________________________________________________ Always be true to Rock n' Roll and Rock n' Roll will always be true to youSubject: update Received: 01/20/99 3:44 am From: Barbara Alston, BARBTXXXXXXXXom To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com Hi all, Just got through trying to update myself on all the newsletters I've missed since December. Wonderful having Carol Kaye with us. What a pleasure reading her memories. She is truly phenomenal! Will, yes, Dee Dee owns the name now and has the only set of Crystals working to my knowledge. She has never stopped. I've never had the pleasure of seeing her new group but I've always wished her well. I will keep you apprised of our proposed reunion this coming summer. If I failed to say this before, HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone! Love, Babs --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Earl vs. Hal etc. Received: 01/20/99 3:44 am From: Carol Kaye, carolkXXXXXXXXlink.net To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com Frank wrote: >My question to Carol: Now both you and Jack Nitzsche (in >Goldmine years ago) have made statements apparently favoring >Earl Palmer over Hal Blaine as all-time best studio drummer. >I've listened to them both extensively, and I'd tend to give Hal >the edge. I could be way off base here, Carol.... Frank, that's just personal taste, the ones you prefer in drummers that's all. I liked Earl's jazz approach, and yes, he played the tune probably even more than Hal (still does at Chadney's here in No. Hollywood), as for the "arrangement of the tune". But no, you're right, he wasn't quite the rock drummer that Hal was (imo), but he played just as hard when the tune needed it. And Earl did some fine rock hits too (no, not near the number Hal did). "Spanish Eyes" was a soft rock-pop number. It didn't require the big boom-boom of the Beach Boys sounds. Al Martino is sort of a crooner. Earl played what was appropriate. We can all show off on our instruments, but what was more important was to record what was required to get the tune a hit -- that's what we were all hired for. Hal was very creative in the command of the tune, and he was hired for his creativity and his sounds. He had the best drum sounds for rock and most pop, true. It was a matter of styles that got either Earl or Hal hired. I did a lot of fine pop-rock hits with Earl -- Supremes, some of those as well as things like the Frankie Laine big hits. Earl is on one of the Beach Boys things even. He did many hits for Phil Spector, Lou Rawls (played hard too), Vickie Carr...lots of that kind of stuff; the Dot Records hits, most of the Sam Cooke hits - - those are pop, not R&B or soul recordings. And yes, I also did a lot of pop-rock hits w/Hal, surf recordings w/Hal too. Hal invented the multi-tomtoms, and he used them extensively (others copied him on that) and I feel Hal is responsible for the surf-rock kind of drumming, all that style, a commendable feat. Hal did the 16th-note tomtom fills with those styles whereas Earl did the paradiddle type of tomtom fills, equally as inventive; it just depended on the styles of music you liked. No, I'm not putting Hal down at all, he was a giant back then, and did his share of creating, a huge share of drumming/ inventing, using stylistic approaches. But Earl did too -- they're both masters. Earl did a lot of things that Hal probably could come close to doing and vice-versa, but it was just a matter of preference of the producers/arrangers etc. Hal could have become a fine jazz drummer, and indeed he did quite a few jazz gigs in the 50s, but he just never played extensively in the hard-core jazz clubs like Earl did (it didn't pay well) -- Hal did more of the road/big-band things, but we did play some nice semi-jazz gigs together for H.B. Barnum. Earl did come from some deep jazz roots and had been a jazz drummer during his early recording days (he recorded in New Orleans since 1949) of recording funk and some jazz stuff -- he did James Brown and Fats Domino down there in those times, others. His book "Backbeat" is being released March 1st, Smithsonian Press. It will reveal so much about his career and life. There was a drummer by the name of Sharkey Hall, and another fine drummer by the name of Jesse Sailes (Jesse played with the Teddy Buckner fine dixieland band here) who were fine studio r&b, soul and yes, rock drummers too. There were even more like Jack Sperling (now w/Les Brown), Jackie Mills, Alvin Stoller, Louis Bellson, all who did a few rock recordings back then. I was on a date with Shelly Manne, who was strictly a jazz drummer (and a movie drummer, I worked constantly with Shelly at the studios) who didn't actually know the right rock beats when we did something for Nancy Wilson who was trying for a gospel-rock-pop hit. I showed him quickly (behind the fence, no-one saw this) and he picked it up and started to play rock -- boom! He had almost given up, but then he really got it. Doc Rock, oh excuse me; I understand about Sue Thompson then. Yes, that can happen -- we used to kid about Eddie Fisher too a little. Some singers can have everything else together and never quite get their meter down. About the "grimacing", if you want to see a good show of that, go see Chuck Berghofer (the string bassist on "Boots" at the beginning w/slides) play! Jazz musicians like Chuck are very well-know for their grimacing -- they have NO IDEA they're doing it, it's an expression on your face because you're ONLY thinking of the music and concentrating on it (not "thinking" as the general public knows it, but self-expression). Chuck's a beautiful person too, so he knows when we're sort of smiling at him, we're his pals -- he's the best! A fine jazz string bassist (he's on the movie "Bird" overdubbed on some cuts) who records with some jazz groups like Pete Jolly's around LA here, as well as a fine elec. bassist too (theme of Barney Miller). When I teach, I teach people to read rhythms by NOT patting the rhythm with their hands (just the opposite of some teachers), but saying it ONLY with their mouths. When you "speak" on your instrument, you are VERBALLY communicating, therefore, you're putting a lot of facial expressions into your playing. This is not phony, but is part of your expression of playing and you'd do that even if you played in your front room. BTW, I was probably one of the few of our group of studio musicians who did get known in the 70s (and subsequently forgotten in the 80s) as I was voted #3 in all the polls in the magazines from the 1-1/2 years of playing live jazz with the great Hampton Hawes. Many had come to me for lessons in 1969/70. I was kind of tired of recording rock and wanted to teach again, and I tho't if I wrote some books that would help. Then it all took off. I published my books and then the fine Joe Pass books too 1970 on, my publishing co., Gwyn Publishing, just took off like a son-of-a-gun, was shipping out 10s of 1,000s of books. They're still selling but not as hot of course. I have some video courses out now and have sent out the packs always with some written history of our part in the 60s hits. Started it all on my kitchen table. Alfred Publishing now owns what is left of my once-huge book catalog -- yes, it's HARD WORK, but I was able to pay Joe Pass and others double royalties, and proudly so. I thought (and still think) that musicians should get the bulk of the monies in publishing! They work hard for it. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ P.S. I just bumped into the Turtles drummer, Terry Hand, today. He was in awe of both Hal and Earl equally. He spoke about them in the same breath of respect. Nice guy Terry is (he's doing some experimental recording right now). He spoke about the sides I had played bass on with the Turtles too. I knew I had done some - it was in my log. Terry says he still misses the 60s, the sound of the 60s and we spoke about the spirit, and the actual sounds of the drums (and bass etc.) back then (vs. the paper-bag sounds of today). He's like everyone else who knew both Hal and Earl, they are thought of as the best, yet each a little different in their styles. Carol Kaye http://www.carolkaye.com/ --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Sue Thompson Received: 01/20/99 3:44 am From: Shelby Riggs, fifties4eXXXXXXXX.com To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com Doc Rock, You are partially correct in your evaluation of Sue Thompson, (real name, Eva Sue McKee). Sue was born on 7-19-25, not 1926. Sue today is 73, and will be 74 on 7-19-99. Sue's a very close friend of my wife & myself, and she is one of the nicest ladies that I have had the pleasure to know. Sue has forgotten more about the music industry than most people ever knew. She still performs occasionally, and is married to to Ted Serna. She has known Ted since her high school days. She finally found the right man after 3 bad marriages. If you would like Sue's home phone #, I will gladly give it to you. == Shelby A. Riggs II Las Vegas, Nevada --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Uncollected Ronnie Received: 01/19/99 8:01 am From: IAC, iandXXXXXXXXlnet.co.uk To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com John - >lovely la-de-day -ronnie spector (another apple records acetate >also with an alternate title"loverly laddy day") John, the old UK Phil Spector Appreciation Society Newsletters from the late 70s/early 80s mention this track a few times and intimate the song is actually the Toni Wine/Irwin Levine number "Love Me Like You're Gonna Lose Me", which the Chiffons recorded and which has a b-vox chorus ".....love me la-de-day...." Know any more on this? Also, on the last list, I also mentioned the alternate Philles version of "I Wish I Never Saw The Sunshine" and said I thought it could've been Bob Crewe - as you pointed out, I should've said Jeff Barry. Ian Chapman --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: In Concert With The Four Seasons - The Early Years Sent: 01/21/19 6:55 pm Received: 01/20/99 5:36 am From: Paul Urbahns, PaulurbXXXXXXXXom To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com I just picked up a new release at Wal Mart (less than $6) with the title: InConcert With The Four Seasons - The Early Years. The tracks and timings are: 1. By Myself (2:42) 2. Jada (1:22) 3. We Three (2:26) 4. Day In, Day Out (4:36) 5. My Mother's Eyes (5:41) 6. Mack The Knife (9:51) 7. Comma Si Bella (4:02) 8. Brotherhood Of Man (2:59) 9.Blues In The Night (3:14) 10. Just In Time (4:02) 11. I Can Dream, Can't I (4:56) This appears to be basically the same album as The Four Seasons Live! issued in 1965. Later parts were reissued on the Pickwick/ Sears labels as "The Brotherhood Of Man". I did a discography quite a few years ago, but I don't have it handy. The two main cuts left off the Vee Jay album are introduction of the group and Little Boy In Grown Up Clothes. I have always considered this a fabricated album by Vee Jay. The group performed in a Letterman style, but the medleys and group introuction track always gave it an air of legitimacy. Now, what do the experts on this list say? By the way the CD is well worth the $6. I just wish they had left off the Beatlemania screaming. Paul Urbahns paulurbXXXXXXXXom --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: Loudness in studios/Bacharach/Harpers Bizarre Received: 01/20/99 11:00 am From: Wonky Alice, MUV96XXXXXXXXnt2.lu.se To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com Here's a couple of things I was thinking of which don't really have anything to do with each other :) * Whenever I listen to Phil Spector and turn up the volume, the sound is sooo huge and enormous. Well, we of course know he used lots of reverb, compression and 158,718,571 guitars and pianos to achieve that sound. What I wonder is how important the pure LOUDNESS in the recording studio was for this sound. Carol? I know myself that certain sounds can't be achieved unless you crank up all the instruments to 11. Did those Spector sessions tend to be louder than all the other 'normal' pop and rock sessions? Related to this, and as Spector used headphones extensively, was it ever discussed back in the sixties how loud music could damage hearing? Of course, today we have tons of networks for people who suffer from Tinnitus and similar ear diseases. What was it like then? * Burt Bacharach....I have two of his lesser known albums, Futures" and "Woman". I think they're from the late seventies. What do you listees think of them? I really have a hard time getting into them because they sound a bit dull and uninspired... there are several flashes of his greatness but most of it actually sound...bland...anyone agree or disagree? * Harpers Bizarre's album from the midseventies (the title escapes me right now) - is it different or just as good as their sixties records like Feelin' Groovy and Anything Goes? I need some input on this album as I can only find it as a very expensive Japanese import. Oh yeah, I think it's called As Times Goes By... All right, all right. Tobias [no my real name is NOT Wonky Alice :)) --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- Subject: ronnie spector new cds...& meeting phil spector! Received: 01/20/99 3:44 am From: Rough Trade Shop, deXXXXXXXXtrade.com To: Spectropop List, spectroXXXXXXXXties.com hi, I've been lurking on this list for a while and it's great! Just thought I'd say that I work for a small independent record shop in London, England (rough trade), and we've got copies of that Ronnie Spector cd single in stock. I personally think it's really good-her voice is great!!! I would buy it myself but I don't have a cd player!!!!! For me to send to copies to the States the total cost would be 5.83 pounds sterling. Also I saw her live at a small club in Camden just before Xmas. ...she was excellent!!!!!!!! The backing band was small but managed the Spector sound pretty well. She did a couple of duets with Joey Ramone and one with Beth Orton. She went down amazingly well and did a great Xmas songs encore (with obligatory santa hat and coat!) And about Phil......about a year ago I was at a restuarant watching Mose Allison. A strange looking guy came in with what looked like a bodyguard..........I was nudging my friends going 'look! check that guy out!' etc.....and one of my friends froze 'thats Phil Spector!!!!!!!!!!!!!' no way !!! we all said. But I checked with one of the waiters and they confirmed it was Phil!!! He was in town because of some court case to do with royalties............. It was only because I was very drunk that my friends were able to persuade me to ask Phil for his autograph!!!!!!!!!! I told him I hoped I wasn't disturbing him and told me it was okay because if I did his friend would kill me!!!!!!!!'.............. I told him how much I loved his work etc. He gave me his autograph. It said: 'always be true to rock n roll and rock n roll will always be true to you' I got his autograph for my friends too.......... I kept the autograph in my purse as a lucky token cos I'm in bands and stuff and I thought it might bring me luck.... unfortunately some complete arseholes stole my bag and I lost my Phil autograph.... xxxx delia xxxx Rough Trade Record Shop web site http://www.roughtrade.com Rough Trade Shop 130 Talbot Road London W11 1JA U.K. phone: 0171-792-3490 fax: 0171-221-1146 --------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------- End
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