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Spectropop - Digest Number 958



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               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Brute Force & John Maus
           From: Martin Roberts 
      2. Glenn Yarbrough "Sunshine Fields of Love"
           From: Art Longmire 
      3. Re: Chiffons' "Stop Look & Listen"
           From: Don Hall 
      4. Re: Super '66, Teardrops, Ponak
           From: Bob Rashkow 
      5. Re: Chiffons' "Nobody Knows" . . . Who Sang Lead?
           From: Tony  Leong 
      6. Thrills; Jim Carroll; Skip Battin; David Hemmings; DJ comp albums
           From: Country Paul 
      7. Re: UK London label prefixes
           From: Michael Fishberg 
      8. Re: The Ronettes In Stereo
           From: Michael Fishberg 
      9. Re: Chiffons "Stop Look And Listen"
           From: Will Stos 
     10. Baker Knight-Would You Believe It???  Musica
           From: Clark Besch 
     11. Re: The Paper Dolls
           From: Luis Suarez 
     12. Re: "Monday Kind of Friday"
           From: Mike Rashkow 
     13. Jack Nitzsche Update
           From: Martin Roberts 
     14. Re: Thrills; Jim Carroll; Skip Battin; David Hemmings; DJ comp albums
           From: Andrew Hickey 
     15. Re: The Dantes
           From: David Coyle 
     16. Re: The Ronettes In Stereo
           From: Mikey 
     17. Re: Chiffons "Stop Look And Listen"
           From: Billy G. Spradlin 
     18. Weekly planner
           From: Kingsley Abbott 
     19. Chiffons Anthology?
           From: Will Stos 
     20. Re: Thrills
           From: Guy Lawrence 
     21. Re: UK London Prefixes
           From: Tony Baylis 
     22. Bert Berns
           From: Martin Roberts 
     23. The Angels, Serendipity Singers
           From: Art Longmire 
     24. Re: The Angels, Serendipity Singers
           From: Ian Chapman 


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Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:42:38 +0100
   From: Martin Roberts 
Subject: Brute Force & John Maus

Hello Art,

When I see the name Brute Force on a label, I'll usually buy. 
I've found his records are never less than interesting and a 
fair few work as enjoyable music!  You might be interested in 
a link I was given recently: http://www.demonstrationbootleg.com

I'm still trying to get my head around the concept of the site 
but if you go to the mp3 section, Brute has (I assume) a recent 
demo recording. John Maus (Walker) is another artist with 
unreleased music on there. His are pretty good, in a very moody, 
kinda late Walker Brothers style.  Worth checking out.

Martin

PS I've just checked the link and the site is 'currently 
unavailable'! I'll make enquiries.



-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 22:53:18 -0000 From: Art Longmire Subject: Glenn Yarbrough "Sunshine Fields of Love" This is a song that I've liked for many years by Glenn Yarbrough, I have it on a Warner Bros. sampler LP called "Schlagers". I wonder if anyone is familiar with it and whether it has ever appeared on a CD. I know that the song appeared on his album "Let Me Choose Life" and I would appreciate any feedback on that LP if anyone has heard it. "On the grass-grown, never mown, Sunshine Fields of Love!" I like everything about this track, especially the whistling-sort of like Arthur Lee does on his tune "Listen to My Song". I notice nobody ever whistles on songs anymore! I miss that. Best, Art Longmire -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:28:02 -0000 From: Don Hall Subject: Re: Chiffons' "Stop Look & Listen" David Bell wrote: > Bloody hell, Mick. I've just dug out the Laurie 45 of "Stop, Look > And Listen" by the Chiffons and listened to it for the first time > in years. How could I have listened to the Ace CD for more than 10 > years and not realised that it was not the Chiffons at all? In a > direct comparison, it's more than obvious. I've uploaded the Chiffons' "Stop Look & Listen" to musica for those who've never heard it. I wish someone with the "My Secret Love" album would do the same with those tracks. If I could find this record somewhere I would do it. Don Hall -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 23:45:58 EDT From: Bob Rashkow Subject: Re: Super '66, Teardrops, Ponak Oh, yes, Mike Edwards! hearing Sweet Talkin' Guy on the transistor or in the car in summer of Sixty-six was truly a joy. On that subject from what I know The Capreez made Top 40 in parts of the Midwest with a tune called "Roseanna", bubbled under according to Whitburn, they released several singles none of which I remember hearing, but from what I've heard about them they had a groovy sound. A very mournful RIP to Linda Schroeder of The Teardrops. I agree wholeheartedly that they too deserved more recognition. John Clemente, any news about Paul Trefzger who wrote Tears Come Tumbling etc.? Any information on him e.g. other tunes he penned in the 6Ts? Sorry The Liquid Room is leaving. I've always enjoyed looking for familiar recordings on David's playlist. I think I have a version of "Up Up & Away" by Marilyn Maye on her STEP TO THE REAR album, but I'm sure she doesn't hold a candle to Jack Jones, Andy Williams, The Lettermen, Ferrante & Teicher......:--(( Bobster -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 05:23:25 -0000 From: Tony Leong Subject: Re: Chiffons' "Nobody Knows" . . . Who Sang Lead? Stuffed Animal wrote: > Can anybody say definitively who sang lead on "Nobody Knows > What's Goin' On In My Mind?" It is definitely not Judy Craig, > but I'm not sure it's Sylvia Peterson, either. Hi, SYLVIA PETERSON was the lead voice on "Nobody Knows Whats Going On In My Mind But Me". During the chime-off of voices before the verses, it is Sylvia, Judy, Pat, and Barbara!!!!!!! Gee, I am so happy about all of this great Chiffons buzz I started!! Now all we need is a definitive Chiffons CD collection like I initially posted!!!!!! Tony Leong -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:36:33 -0400 From: Country Paul Subject: Thrills; Jim Carroll; Skip Battin; David Hemmings; DJ comp albums Today's New York Times Arts section had a quick mention of a Scottish band called The Thrills, which they credited as being this year's incarnation of California music. Has anyone heard or heard of them? Are they as good as the writer in the Times implied? Mike Nathan: > Does anyone remember the record "(Those are) People Who Died"? > Who recorded it, when, etc. Scott: > Jim Carroll Band, 1980, don't know if it was ever issued as a single > but I remember it getting heavy rotation on my local college radio > station station when it came out. It's on his first LP, Catholic Boy, > which should be available on CD. The releases were on Atco; it was a small hit single as well as an album. He had already been famous for writing "The Basketball Diaries," about growing up young, white and strung out in the ghetto, and overcoming his addition. I had the pleasure of interviewing him at the time; he said all the names and events in the song were autobiographical. I also saw him live (well, kinda - they finally went on at 2:20am and I slept through a couple of songs despite the volume). As on his recordings, he didn't sing, but rather spoke all his lyrics. Bryan: > Skip Battin has passed away: > http://users.skynet.be/byrdsflyght/main.htm This is indeed sad news; I appreciated his music back to Skip & Flip. Sorta hard to believe he was 69 years old! I also find this note on the above site sadly fascinating: "Half of the ex-Byrds appearing on records are now gone. Now playing in heaven is a new Byrds lineup: "Gene Clark (vocals, acoustic guitar, harmonica); Gram Parsons (vocals, guitar, keyboards); Clarence White (guitar, vocals); Skip Battin (bass, vocals); Michael Clarke and Kevin Kelley (drums)." The good news is that I saw Roger McGuinn in a live solo show in Hoboken last spring, and he was alive, well and excellent. Steve Harvey: > David Hemmings Happens LP....I think Roger said it was jiffypop > rushed out to cash in on the Blow Up fame. Some Gene Clark tunes on > it so it's a kind of a quazi-Byrds lp. Kinda like the the Byrds' > version of Philmore Lincoln. I remember the Hemmings LP going by, but missed the Byrds' involvement. I'm curious, though: who is/was Philamore Lincoln? Could you explain the reference, please? I loved "You're The One" from The North Wind Blew South (Epic BN 26497, 1970). Is Lincoln still around? Was there Byrds involvement beyond your reference? (And Steve, thanks for the John Kay info; I had a hard time imagining the Steppenwolf Kay as a teacher!) Jon (re: David Hemmings LP): > Would it be possible to get a sample track on musica? And if so, could I request one of the Gene Clark songs, please? Peter Lerner: > Barry [White] played piano on Jesse Belvin's "Goodnight my love" at > age 11, arranged Bob and Earl's cracking "Harlem Shuffle" ...which I never knew until he passed. (11 years old and playing on a true classic!) Special mention should go too to Jesse Belvin himself; I realize his life ended just at the start of the S'pop timeframe, but he was a profound influence on pop and soul music, both under his own name and behind the scenes as a producer, group member, sideman and composer. Ken on the West Coast: > ..."Murray the K presents 1962 Golden Gassers" it's a Scepter > Records label but the artists are not all from that label. > We have Johnny Tillotson, Don & Juan & Ben E King for starters. > Anyone else seen any? I suppose it was a series. I know of only two on Scepter; Austin Powell mentions the other, "The Fifth Beatle." He had another compilation on Chess, but I can't say if it was before or after the Scepter albums. As Austin noted, many labels had albums promoting radio stations, or occasionally individual jocks. Notable purveyors were Jubilee (an early one with Clay Cole), Post, Lost Nite (especially Jerry Blavat), Mr. Maestro, Roulette (subsidiary End originally issued the two Alan Freed albums Paul Urbahns mentions) and later Collectibles, with extensive collections from WCBS-FM in New York and a station in Philly. End notes: Mark Frumento: > "Dream"... it's by Clifford T. Ward. A beautiful song among many > beautiful songs by Cliff. Thanks, Mark. Can you please share more on who he is? Me (Re: "Just Can't Help Believing"): > Was Mr. Las Vegas actually the first? Michael Gignac: > Paul, let's try to be more accurate [plus the chronology]. I didn't know; that's why I asked. Thank you for your thorough and detailed answer. Art Longmire: > Thanks for giving the props to the Chiffons' "Nobody Knows What's > Goin' On (In My Mind But Me)", a tune that I too have been raving > about for many years now....I like how you refer to it as > "progressive" ....[I]t was written by the artist and writer known > as Brute Force - this was the first record I came across with his > participation. You're welcome, Art. Incidentally, Mr. Force (Stephen Friedland) has his own website these days: http://www.brutesforce.com. It's worth checking, IMO. His Columbia album, "Confections of Live," was and is a favorite of mine for several songs, including the lovely "No Olympian Height." Country Paul -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:20:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Fishberg Subject: Re: UK London label prefixes This is an interesting subject. But there do appear to be certain anomolies concerning overseas exports and product issued on the London label (not the US London label I hasten to say). Products issued in Italy for example just had the HL prefix. In France and NL for example, the suffix after the HL was also used. Then there are the EXPORT London records which were pressed in the UK and sent overseas (to which territories?) which also had no suffix, ie., just HL. I do know that a different numbering system was used in Australia, and am trying to find some early examples in my own collection for discussion... Cheers! Michael Fishberg -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:26:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Fishberg Subject: Re: The Ronettes In Stereo I have a reissue here in UK which has just a pair of the Spector wrap-around shades on the cover of the Christmas Album. I was delighted to say that this purchase (for about $1.50 at a charity shop) was true stereo. Incidentally, the Ike & Tina Turner LP "River Deep, Mountain High" Lp issued in the UK on London(SHU 8296) also seems like (mostly) true stereo... Now about that Ronettes LP. The closest I can come to verifying true stereo is that a copy sold earlier this year on Ebay for about $150.00 and was shon as stereo. I asked the (apparently knowledgeable about such things vendor) who claimed that it *was* true stereo. Goldstar studios certainly had the facilities for recording and mixing down stereo since 1959, although it is well-known that PS did not like stereo. Again, on that Christmas alum - a UK Warner reissue of the LP (on blue vinyl) has etched in the run-out wax the words "Back To Mono"). That's enough for now... Michael Fishberg -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 14:51:33 -0000 From: Will Stos Subject: Re: Chiffons "Stop Look And Listen" Wow, listening to the original on musica was very strange. When I first bought Greatest Recordings "Stop Look and Listen" was one of my favourites. The lead voice sounded a bit strange, but I figured it was just Sylvia doing a breathy take. On the original Judy's vocals seemed doubled, or maybe it's just a vibrato. It's going to take a little while to get used to this original version now. But I am curious as to who did the version on the CD. Will : ) -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:39:43 -0000 From: Clark Besch Subject: Baker Knight-Would You Believe It??? Musica Hi, I commented two weeks ago about Baker Knight's semi-hit in Chicago, "Would You Believe It". It reached #34 on WLS Silver Dollar Survey May 6, 1966. Anyway, someone asked me to post to Musica. At the time, I did not have the tools to do so. Now, I hopefully have posted it to Musica. Have never done this before, so hope it works. Enjoy! Clark -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:21:17 -0000 From: Luis Suarez Subject: Re: The Paper Dolls Will Stos: > Also, I'm thinking of ordering the Paper Dolls' Pye Anthology. > Is it any good? Any liner notes/photos? I'd love to hear their version of "My Boyfriend's Back"!! Luis -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:22:04 EDT From: Mike Rashkow Subject: Re: "Monday Kind of Friday" > Which came first? Monday Kind Of Friday by Dawn's Early Light or > Friday Kind Of Monday by the Meantime (aka Ellie Greenwich)? > Let's not forget "It's A Monday Kind Of Tuesday" by the Hello > People (Philips, 1968) OR, "It Sure Is Monday" by Mark Chestnutt on Decca (Circa 1995), written by a really good but relatively unknown, Dennis Linde. Rashkovsky -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:36:18 +0100 From: Martin Roberts Subject: Jack Nitzsche Update Albert Stone's "Someone's Taken Maria Away" (written by Chris "Yesterday Man" Andrews) is the new Record Of The Week, now playing on the home page: http://www.spectropop.com/JackNitzsche/index.htm My congratulations on your vote, a super record. The choice for next week is between Yousui Inoue or Deborah Van Valkenburgh. The jingle On The Radio page is "Nitzsche's Monkey": http://www.spectropop.com/JackNitzsche/radio.htm A few small additions have been made to some of the other pages. Martin -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:30:25 +0100 From: Andrew Hickey Subject: Re: Thrills; Jim Carroll; Skip Battin; David Hemmings; DJ comp albums Country Paul wrote: > Today's New York Times Arts section had a quick mention of a > Scottish band called The Thrills, which they credited as being this > year's incarnation of California music. Has anyone heard or heard > of them? Are they as good as the writer in the Times implied? I've heard a few tracks, and was quite impressed, but not *hugely* so. I'll probably buy the album though. The obvious reference points are early-70s Beach Boys (they have a song called Big Sur), early Bee Gees, CSNY, The Association. Good but not great harmony pop. What's more interesting is that they actually seem to be very popular, at least in the UK, and getting a lot of press, publicity and airplay - they might actually become very successful, making music that many people on Spectropop will appreciate. Andrew Hickey http://stealthmunchkin.com No really, the new album *will* be out soon, honest -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:00:29 -0700 (PDT) From: David Coyle Subject: Re: The Dantes The Dantes had three singles between 1966-67. The second one was the one you (Dan Hughes) mentioned, and the flipside was "Can I Get A Witness", also based on the Stones version of the Marvin Gaye song. Their first single was a 2-sided original, "Can't Get Enough Of Your Love", with an instrumental called "80-96" on the flip. The third single was another Stones cover, this time "Connection" from the "Between The Buttons" LP, flipped with a New Vaudeville Band-type novelty called "Satisfied." Only the second single was on Cameo. The first was on Jamie and the third one was on Main Line. David -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:14:21 -0400 From: Mikey Subject: Re: The Ronettes In Stereo The Ronettes LP was def issued in true stereo. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:41:22 -0000 From: Billy G. Spradlin Subject: Re: Chiffons "Stop Look And Listen" The original 45 version is on Laurie's "The Best of The Chiffons - Classic Old & Gold" CD from 1988. How many CDs did Laurie release before the EMI buyout? I just did a comparison with the mp3 and it's the same version. Billy -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:43:52 +0100 From: Kingsley Abbott Subject: Weekly planner Mike wrote: Which came first? Monday Kind Of Friday - Dawn's Early Light or Friday Kind Of Monday - Ellie Greenwich Well, here in Norfolk, it's always reckoned to have been 'Thursday Afternoonish sort of Tuesday' by Ellie Dawn ...but there again (pause to ponder)... :-) Kingsley -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 20:47:25 -0000 From: Will Stos Subject: Chiffons Anthology? Tony Leong wrote: > Gee, I am so happy about all of this great Chiffons buzz > I started!! Now all we need is a definitive Chiffons CD > collection like I initially posted!!!!!! If no one else is up to the challenge, why don't you make some inquiries Tony? Your connections with the original group members would make the liner notes very interesting. As for what should be on the comp, here's my choice for a double cd: CD1 1. He's So Fine 2. Oh My Lover 3. Lucky Me 4. Why Am I So Shy 5. When I Go To Sleep At Night 6. Why Do Fools Fall In Love 7. My Block 8. One Fine Day 9. Tonight I Met An Angel 10. Only My Friend 11. I'm Gonna Dry My Eyes 12. Did You Ever Go Steady 13. When Summer Is Through 14. A Love So Fine 15. When The Boy's Happy (The Girl's Happy Too) 16. I Have A Boyfriend 17. Easy To Love (So Hard To Get) 18. Sailor Boy 19. What Am I Gonna Do With You (Hey Baby) 20. Strange Strange Feeling 21. The Doolang (by Andrea Carroll) 22. Nobody Knows What's Going On (In My Mind But Me) 23. Tonight I'm Gonna Dream 24. The Heavenly Place 25. March CD2 1. Sweet Talkin' Guy 2. Out of This World 3. Just A Boy 4. Thumbs Down 5. Down Down Down 6. Open Your Eyes (I Will Be There) 7. Stop Look And Listen 8. My Boyfriend's Back 9. If I Knew Then (What I Know Now) 10. Keep The Boy Happy 11. Just For Tonight 12. Dream Dream Dream 13. Teach Me How 14. He's A Bad One 15. Up On A Bridge 16. The Next In Line (by Hoagy Lands) 17. Love Me Like You're Gonna Lose Me 18. Three Dips of Ice Cream 19. My Secret Love 20. Soul 21. Remember Me baby 22. It Hurts To Be Sixteen 23. Every Boy and Every Girl 24. So Much In Love 25. My Sweet lord 26. Main Nerve And even with that I'm leaving out some good tunes. Come on somebody, make this dream a reality! Will : ) -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:45:35 +0100 From: Guy Lawrence Subject: Re: Thrills Country Paul wrote: > Today's New York Times Arts section had a quick mention of a > Scottish band called The Thrills, which they credited as being > this year's incarnation of California music. Has anyone heard > or heard of them? Are they as good as the writer in the Times > implied? Don't throw out your Pet Sounds just yet Paul - they're a lot more like the dreaded Starsailor than "California Music". That is, pleasant yet under-nourished indie-pop, in my humble opinion anyway! > Peter Lerner: > Barry [White] played piano on Jesse Belvin's "Goodnight my love" at > age 11, arranged Bob and Earl's cracking "Harlem Shuffle" Country Paul: > ...which I never knew until he passed. (11 years old and playing on a > true classic... Equally mind-boggling and a fact I don't think we've mentioned here yet is that White had a song recorded by the Banana Splits. It's a funky Sly Stone style number called "Doin' The Banana Split" and appeared on one of their 45s given away with breakfast cereal. Guy. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:22:57 -0000 From: Tony Baylis Subject: Re: UK London Prefixes >From Austin Powell: > Basically the third letter denoted the US origin of the > recording. "G" was product from the Liberty label, "K" and > "E" was Atlantic/Atco and if memory serves "A" denoted masters > from Cadence, "D" was Dot, "T" was United Artists and "P" was > Imperial etc., etc., "U" seemed to be used for a sort of > catch-all from very small US indies..... Many thanks Austin... now, of course, I feel as intelligent as two short planks, all this time and it never clicked that specific letters matched specific US lables. Using your info, one would thus suspect that as Cadence is 'A', then this practice started in 1957, for London's major import labels, and that maybe they used the plain 'HL' prefix for 'one-offs' before the use of 'U'. However this theory is confused by the release in 1960 of 'Shop Around' by The Miracles - HL 9276 and in 1963 of 'Never' by The Earls - HL 9702 and 'Sandra' by The Volumes, HL 9733. I'll guess that the useage of the hyphen between the 'HL' and the following letter may just depend on who did the label copy as naturally both versions refer to the same US lable, and even the same artist eg Duane Eddy, 'HL 8764' Cannonball, 'HLW 9257' Pepe, and 'HL-W 9477' The Avenger. (Of course, it could also be a plot to confuse us poor 45 buyers). Now I am going to have to track down a list of all the US labels the suffix stands for ... more work :-) Again, your info much appreciated. Cheers Tony Baylis -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 22 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:45:53 +0100 From: Martin Roberts Subject: Bert Berns Just checked out http://www.bertberns.com/ and Brett's got a groovy new feature, "Single Of The Day". Not mp3s but great label and picture sleeve scans. I guess it's my age but not many pictures 'turn me on' as much as a cool record label! Martin -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 21:58:55 -0000 From: Art Longmire Subject: The Angels, Serendipity Singers I've got a late 60s album by the Serendipity Singers called "Love is a State of Mind" and I was trying to research it on the internet today. One link took me to the Angels website and I was surprised to read that the Angel's singer Peggy Santiglia is on the album. Well, I had no success in turning up anything on the LP but I've gotta go back and see if she sang lead on any of the tracks or if her picture was included in the group portrait on the back cover. This is a very good album by the way, with a bit of a Spanky and Our Gang influence (including a cover of "It Ain't Necessarily Byrd Avenue"). Doesn't sound anything at all like their better-known material from earlier in the 60s. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:54:58 -0000 From: Ian Chapman Subject: Re: The Angels, Serendipity Singers Art Longmire wrote: > I've got a late 60s album by the Serendipity Singers called > "Love is a State of Mind" and I was trying to research it on > the internet today. One link took me to the Angels website > and I was surprised to read that the Angel's singer Peggy > Santiglia is on the album..... > I've gotta go back and see if she sang lead on any of the > tracks or if her picture was included in the group portrait > on the back cover. Art, Yes, Peggy did have a spell with the Serendipities in the late 60s. I have a pic in an old copy of "16" which clearly shows her in the midst of the group. If anyone's interested I can dig it out and post it to the photos section. Ian -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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