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Spectropop - Digest Number 683



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______________        S  P  E  C  T  R  O  P  O  P        ______________
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                        Jamie LePage (1953-2002)
                  http://www.spectropop.com/Jamie.htm
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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Please allow me to introduce myself
           From: Allan Rinde 
      2. Questions
           From: Simon White 
      3. Merseybeat
           From: Phil Chapman 
      4. Re: Mina's album covers
           From: Stewart Mason 
      5. Re: how can they do that?
           From: Bill Reed 
      6. "Love Is a Wonderful Thing" rip-off
           From: zombie7123 
      7. That Girl Belongs To Yesterday
           From: Phil Chapman 
      8. Re: Freddie & The Dreamers from Manchester
           From: Mike Edwards 
      9. Re: Lee Hazlewood
           From: Scott S 
     10. Re: Lee Hazlewood / Lou Reed / Gene Pitney
           From: Ron Sauer 
     11. Re: Byrds
           From: Bill George 
     12. Re: Hank Medress
           From: Stephen Popkin 
     13. Re: Merseybeat
           From: Phil Chapman 
     14. Re: Freddie & The Dreamers from Manchester
           From: Andrew Hickey 
     15. Re: how can they do that?
           From: Mary S. 
     16. Re: Toni Wine
           From: Jeff Lemlich 
     17. Re: Major new Shangri-Las article
           From: James Botticelli 
     18. Need Help to Find Song
           From: Leonardo Flores 
     19. Mel Carter / Nick De Caro
           From: Mike Edwards 
     20. Re: Hank Medress
           From: A. Toombs 
     21. Re: Need Help to Find Song
           From: Mick Patrick 
     22. Re: Toni Wine - "He's Not You" / Dusk
           From: Allan Rinde 
     23. Re: Need Help To Find Song
           From: Mike Edwards 
     24. Re: Need Help to Find Song
           From: Phil Chapman 
     25. Re: Need Help to Find Song
           From: James Botticelli 


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Message: 1
   Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:51:36 -0000
   From: Allan Rinde 
Subject: Please allow me to introduce myself

Although I have been checking out spectropop for several years, 
this is my first post. Without going into my full history, let 
me just say that:

1: In a strange case of timing, my entry into this group coincides
with my learning the news of Michael Stewart's death. During my 
tenure at Columbia Records (1970-73) I brought Michael in to produce 
"Piano Man." It was interesting to read Billy Joel's kind comments, 
because I always thought he didn't really like the way that album 
turned out. I certainly never heard a word from him about it and 
never even got a Gold, let alone Platinum record. Bringing in Michael 
was one of the things that cost me my job (but that's a tale for 
another day, if anyone's interested) and ironically, after the 
success of "Piano Man," Michael was hired by Columbia (in a different 
position) and given my office.

2: It was only recently that I learned that this forum had been run 
by Jamie Lepage, who I knew in the late seventies as Page Porazzo. 
Along with Steve Huffsteder (of the Quick), I produced a wall-of-sound 
rip off with Page's then girlfriend, Denny Ward, (with Page on keyboards)
called "Show Me." Aside from Page having some singles pressed, the
record also surfaced (with a different mix) on "L.A. In," one of the
first Rhino compilations (on LP only).

3: Last, but certainly not least in the context of this group, I am
currently married to Toni Wine. My friend Artie Wayne, in whose
company I first met Toni over 30 years ago, and who I turned on to
this group several weeks ago, in turn encouraged me to see if Toni
would make herself available for questions (computers are not her
thing) but I cannot commit for her. From what I've read here over 
the years, many of you know more about Toni than she herself remembers. 
If there are any burning questions I can certainly ask her. We can only 
hope.



-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:30:03 +0000 From: Simon White Subject: Questions Two questions for the Spectropop expert panel. 1 - Who were the instrumental Orchids on Roulette 4412 "Good Time Stomp"? It seems odd to have two groups of the same name on the same label. The later Orchids "Love Is What You Make It" Roulette 4633 were the girl group. Great Van McCoy song by the way. 2 - Who were the girls backing Nat King Cole on his 1962 Capitol release and Stand By Me soundalike "The Good Times"? The voices sound naggingly familiar. Off now to do some grinning. Thank you. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 01:34:13 -0000 From: Phil Chapman Subject: Merseybeat Peter Lerner: > Merseybeat is presumably a generic term that Americans use for all > British 60s music sung by males with northern accents....... > Freddie and the lads were from Manchester, not Liverpool. > - Peter the Spectropop pedant Can I join the pedants' revolt, Peter, and point out that, although the river Mersey empties into the Irish Sea at Liverpool, it actually rises in the Pennines just outside Stockport, meandering through south Manchester on its way to feed the M/Cr Ship Canal. At the time I thought Merseybeat encompassed the whole North West scene, or at least the region covered by Granada TV, who were always showing local 'pop groups'. [Yes, I remember the Beatles' first TV appearance] Here's some interesting asides from one of the Manchester websites: Manchester has a long tradition of musical performance and appreciation, having previously been Britain's biggest provincial centre for music hall for a hundred years or more...... Halfway between Liverpool and Manchester was the vast American Airforce Base at Burtonwood where, frequently the authorities would put on parties in the hangars and invite the public along. At the end of the evening our amiable occupiers would hand out records to the bemused civvies, giving them access to music the BBC just never played. April 1965 was a remarkable month for Manchester music. Following Freddie and the Dreamers to the top of the US charts was "The Game Of Love" from Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders. Strangely, the band were refused performance visas in the States as US officials feared local groups were losing their jobs to the rush of British artists. The city also gave birth to Britain's longest running pop show, Top Of The Pops, which was unveiled on New Year's Day 1964 with a line-up including the Hollies, the Rolling Stones, Dusty Springfield and the Dave Clark Five. The venue was a converted Wesleyan chapel and the warm-up band were the Mockingbirds. The programme fled to London in 1967. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:11:21 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: Mina's album covers Mick Patrick wrote: >Be warned, the legendary Mina is still very active and currently >has over SIXTY cds in catalogue! Can my credit card stand it? A >larger than life character, her image becomes more extreme with >each successive album cover. It's true! I have an album from 1980 called SALOME on which she appears with a long, curly, Smith Brothers beard! I I can't imagine what she's doing on her album covers 22 years later...or imagine Barbra Streisand (the singer I feel Mina most resembles) doing something like that on an album sleeve, for that matter. Stewart -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:18:04 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Reed Subject: Re: how can they do that? Eddy: > In any case, I've heard more blatant rip-offs ! How about > the Box Tops' "Yesterday where's my mind" and Tim Hardin's "Morning dew" ??!! xxxxxxxxxxxx Actually, Morning Dew was co-written by Tim ROSE and Bonnie Dobson. Both Tims were in London at the same time in the sixties and often performed together and this is probably where the confusion springs from. Sadly, Tim Rose passed last 9/29 in London. Tim Hardin was offed by fellow junkies in Hollywood in '81. Bill Reed http://www.pinkywinters.com -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 07:49:54 -0000 From: zombie7123 Subject: "Love Is a Wonderful Thing" rip-off While we're on the subject: my "favorite" (i.e. most shocking) bit of musical plagiarism was zero-talent Michael Bolton writing a song called "Love Is A Wonderful Thing", with lyrics "Love is a wonderful thing..." that just HAPPENED to have a similar tune to an Isley Brothers song from 25 years earlier called "Love Is A Wonderful Thing" with the lyrics "Love is a wonderful thing...". It's one thing to steal a song, but quite something else to keep the same title and lyrics!!! Bolton took plagiarism to a new level. If you want to hear both songs to compare them, you'll find links (and a summary of the case) at http://library.law.columbia.edu/music_plagiarism/062/062.html True, the melodies are merely "similar", not exactly the same, but I think that's only due to Bolton's bad memory: if he could have more clearly remembered the song he was stealing, he would have used the same tune, since the Isley Brothers' version is snappier than his dreary update anyway. Here's some good info on the case from a legal site: ---------------------- Michael Bolton song infringes on Isley Brothers's "Love Is A Wonderful Thing" The Ninth Circuit has affirmed a $5.4 million jury verdict against Michael Bolton. There was sufficient evidence of access and substantial similarity to support a finding of copyright infringement. The Isley Brothers rhythm and blues group wrote and recorded "Love Is A Wonderful Thing" in 1964. It was released as a single in 1966, making it to No. 110 on a Billboard chart called "Bubbling Under the Hot 100." When the Isley Brothers released "Love Is A Wonderful Thing," Bolton was a teenager in Connecticut, where the song received some play on television, and on a New York City radio station. Bolton admitted that he was a huge fan of the Isley Brothers, and a collector of their music. When Bolton saw Ronald Isley at a concert in 1988, he said: "I know this guy. I go back with him. I have all his stuff." At trial Bolton denied that he had ever heard "Love Is A Wonderful Thing". In 1990, Bolton and a co-writer wrote a song called "Love Is A Wonderful Thing". It was released as a single, and on an album in 1991. The single finished 1991 at No. 49 on Billboard's year-end pop chart. On a tape of a recording session, Bolton wondered aloud whether the song that he and his co-writer were composing had already been done by Marvin Gaye, who had actually recorded a song called "Some Kind of Wonderful". The Copyright Act prohibits copying of the protected elements of a copyrighted work. The owner of the work may prove copying circumstantially by establishing (1) that the infringer had access to the copyrighted work, and (2) that the two works are substantially similar. Proof of access may rest on evidence that the copyrighted work was widely disseminated. Although Bolton's alleged copying came more than twenty years after the release of the Isley Brother song, there was sufficient evidence from which a reasonable jury could conclude that he had subconsciously copied the song. Three Boys Music Corp. v. Bolton, 2000 WL 557967 (9th Cir. May 9, 2000). -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:19:45 -0000 From: Phil Chapman Subject: That Girl Belongs To Yesterday Ron Sauer: (Re: Gene Pitney's "That Girl Belongs To Yesterday") > and the double track as a bonus track on a different cd. > Was the British single release in the 60's the single track or > double track? And why was it so hard to find the double track? Phil Milstein: > Which version do you think is better? It's a two-part melody in Everly Brothers/early Beatles style, and sounds strange to me with one part missing. Also, as it was such a hit, I suppose that's the version lodged in memory. A similar anomaly surrounds a Spectropop favourite Greenwich/Barry tune: "Don't Ever Leave Me", as recorded by Connie Francis. I got the UK 45 in the 60s, and liked it as a single lead vocal breaking into self-sung two-part as on any other CF record. I was only made aware relatively recently by some other S'poppers (equally unaware of a different version) that the US 45 and all the reissues have a shadowed lead vocal and additional (minutely out of sync) backing vocals (which IMO are Ellie's guide vocals). In terms of preference, they are as unimpressed with the UK mix as I am with the US release. So could it be that the first version we hear of something is the one that sticks with us? Phil -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:46:05 -0500 From: Mike Edwards Subject: Re: Freddie & The Dreamers from Manchester I wrote: > "This song [Freddie & the Dreamers' "In My Baby's Arms"] > is now on musica, and it is a nice piece of Merseybeat." Peter wrote: > "Merseybeat is presumably a generic term that Americans use > for all British 60s music sung by males with northern accents, > then. Something like "northern soul". Freddie and the lads were > from Manchester, not Liverpool, a short distance by road but > millions of miles away culturally and on the River Irwell I stand corrected, Peter, but remember I am the most corrected person on Spectropop and proud of it! I am getting better: mixing up Liverpool and Manchester is surely not as bad as saying that Elvis covered Dee Dee Warwick's version of "Suspicious Minds", is it? Thanks for mentioning Freddie & The Dreamers on the site though, Peter, as I thought I was the only Spectropop member who liked them. Let's not forget we owe group member, Derek Quinn, big time for the Maxine Darren song, "Don't You Know". Unless Mitch Murray wrote this song, in which case I will get corrected again. Mike Edwards -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:45:13 -0500 From: Scott S Subject: Re: Lee Hazlewood Mick: > Ace's new Lee Hazlewood double CD is titled "These Boots > Are Made For Walkin' - the Complete MGM Recordings". I just ordered this from http://www.redlickrecords.co.uk I emailed with a shipping question and Ann responded right away that the cd would be $23 total to Ohio. New question: If anyone has, or knows where I can get any other, possibly non-CD material by them, please contact me off-list. I'm also interested in video stuff including Nancy Sinatra. Thanks, Scott S -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 11:57:43 -0000 From: Ron Sauer Subject: Re: Lee Hazlewood / Lou Reed / Gene Pitney Phil M. [re: Gene Pitney's "That Girl Belongs To Yesterday"] > Which version do you think is better? [Single or double-track] I like them both but I still prefer the double track. It's been a favorite of mine since it's release. It took a while to get over my disappointment when I heard the single track, but it's grown on me. Ron -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:06:24 EST From: Bill George Subject: Re: Byrds According to Unterberger, "the logs for the Mr. Tambourine Man session list a number a A-level L.A. studio hands as players on the track: Jerry Cole on rhythm guitar, Larry Knechtel on bass, Leon Russell on electric piano, and Hal Blaine as drummer. With McGuinn on electric 12-string, this is the lineup that's generally considered to have performed on the single, though, interestingly, bassist Gary Marker (Rising Sons)believes it wasn't the only one that tried." Marker goes on to recount being in the studio and seeing McGinn on 12-string, Crosby on six-string, Leon Russell on harpsichord (he thinks) Hal Blaine on drums. He recollects Joe Osborn as being the bassist on that session, as well as Barney Kessel on rhythm guitar. But he believes there were several sessions for that song. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:55:15 -0500 From: Stephen Popkin Subject: Re: Hank Medress Artie Wayne said: > ...Hank Medress, who produced the Chiffons with the Tokens... Hey, anyone know what ever happened to Hank Medress? He was with A & M records, and produced Tony Orlando and Dawn, right? What's he up to now? -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:35:45 -0000 From: Phil Chapman Subject: Re: Merseybeat Peter Lerner: > Merseybeat is presumably a generic term that Americans use > for all British 60s music......... Just been reminded of some lyrics from the theme song to the T.A.M.I. Show, "Here They Come (From All Over The World)" (Sloan/Barri), sung by Jan & Dean: "...Those bad-lookin' guys with the moppy long hair The Rolling Stones from Liverpool are bound to be there...." It was later amended to London Town in an alternative version. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:49:05 -0000 From: Andrew Hickey Subject: Re: Freddie & The Dreamers from Manchester > I stand corrected, Peter, but remember I am the most corrected > person on Spectropop and proud of it! I am getting better: mixing > up Liverpool and Manchester is surely not as bad as saying that > Elvis covered Dee Dee Warwick's version of "Suspicious Minds", > is it? Even though Liverpool and Manchester are only thirty miles away from each other, the rivalry is such that it's roughly equivalent to the common British mistake of calling someone from Alabama a Yankee... As far as Elvis-related mistakes go, the most egregious error in a book I've read recently has to go to Peter Guralnick, who in the second volume of his Elvis bio refers to a gig being attended by 'ex-patriate Elvis soundalike PF Sloan'. How someone can spend 10 years writing a book on music that covers the 60s and 70s and confuse PF Sloan with (I can only presume) PJ Proby I don't know... http://www.stealthmunchkin.com Tequila Car Crash, the new Stealth Munchkin album, out in November! -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:03:01 -0000 From: Mary S. Subject: Re: how can they do that? I have always been shocked by the lawsuit being successful. I have never felt that "He's So Fine" and "My Sweet Lord" sounded very much alike except perhaps on about three notes - hardly enough to get excited about. I, too, have heard a great many songs that sounded MUCH more like other songs than those two ever did. Of course, I can't happen to think of what they were (C'mon, brain, get in gear!!!). Mary S. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:07:38 -0000 From: Jeff Lemlich Subject: Re: Toni Wine Allan Rinde wrote: > From what I've read here over the years, many of you know > more about Toni than she herself remembers. If there are any > burning questions I can certainly ask her. We can only hope. Hi Allan, Welcome to the group! I am a big fan of your wife's work, with my favorite song of hers being "He's Not You". I'm wondering if she's ever heard Gwen McCrae's 1972 version of this song, and what she thinks of it. Also, does she remember the full line-up of the group Dusk? Thanks, Jeff Lemlich http://www.limestonerecords.com -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:09:22 -0500 From: James Botticelli Subject: Re: Major new Shangri-Las article Phil Milstein wrote: > Shangri-Las fans are gonna have a field day with this: > http://www.redbirdent.com/ Very interesting Phil. The Shangri-Las always had a special kind of magic, and no one really measured up to them on one level. The story gives a real nice cultural snapshot of 1963 Queens, one area of NYC with which I confess to still being unfamiliar with. But I understand MOMA just moved up there. Does anyone have a CD reissue of the COMPLEAT Shangri-Las to recommend? And where I can get it? I really have no idea how extensive an output they created. I know about Past, Present & Future, and about 14 or so other tracks. Are there many more? JB/curious in boston -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:41:36 -0000 From: Leonardo Flores Subject: Need Help to Find Song Hello, My dear DJ friend is trying to locate a song; this is how she identifies it: "I was wondering if you could help me identify the singer of a fab soul song: The song's either called "Seven day lover" OR "Seven day woman", BUT IT'S NOT THE JAMES FOUNTAIN SONG! This song is sung by a woman." All help greatly appreciated, Cheers, Leonardo -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:57:14 -0000 From: Mike Edwards Subject: Mel Carter / Nick De Caro I have just posted a version of Tar And Cement by Mel Carter to musica. This version was produced and arranged by Nick De Caro. Looking at the Imperial label on which it was released, this could well have been the b-side with the a-side honors going to a revival of Adam Wade's "Take Good Care Of Her". Although the timing is close, I think this version came after Verdelle Smith's as the co-writers, Paul Vance and Lee Pockriss did the production work on most of Verdelle Smith's records. With Caroline Munro's version still up there, this may be the first time we've had a "battle of the bands" on musica! But didn't you like Miss Munro in the Golden Voyage Of Sinbad she's a missing ingredient from the recent Harry Potter fantasy films. Mike Edwards -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:05:41 -0000 From: A. Toombs Subject: Re: Hank Medress Previously: > Hey, anyone know what ever happened to Hank Medress? He was > with A & M records, and produced Tony Orlando and Dawn, right? > What's he up to now? Hank wasn't with A&M, as far as I can remember, but he did produce Tony Orlando for Bell. He did a brief stint as an A&R director with CBS Canada in the late 80's, where he signed Dan Hill and produced 2 albums, which included his hit duet with Vonda Shepard, "Can't We Try", and a few other AC hits. Most recently he was involved in Bottom Line Records (a joint venture with Walter Yetnikoff's post Columbia operation and NY's Bottom Line Caberet), but that's been over for a few years. I saw Hank the week before Sept. 11 in N.Y. and he wasn't doing too much of anything. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:09:02 -0000 From: Mick Patrick Subject: Re: Need Help to Find Song Leonardo Flores wrote: > My dear DJ friend is trying to locate a song; this is how she > identifies it: > "I was wondering if you could help me identify the singer of > a fab soul song: The song's either called "Seven day lover" OR > "Seven day woman", BUT IT'S NOT THE JAMES FOUNTAIN SONG! This > song is sung by a woman." I have a sneaking suspicion that your lovely chum's mystery record is either "Second Class Lover" by Jean DuShon (Okeh) or "Seven Day Fool" by the one and only Etta James (Argo). If not, both are fabulous records anyway. When copies of these 45s appear on the open market, they are always out of my price range. Rats! Happily, both are available on CD. More details on request. Right, back to my Girl Watchers CDR (thanks Leo). MICK PATRICK -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 22 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:18:14 -0000 From: Allan Rinde Subject: Re: Toni Wine - "He's Not You" / Dusk Jeff Lemlich: > I am a big fan of your wife's work, with my favorite song > of hers being "He's Not You". I'm wondering if she's ever > heard Gwen McCrae's 1972 version of this song, and what she > thinks of it. Also, does she remember the full line-up of > the group Dusk? Toni loves the Gwen McCrae record. She's going to try and remember more about Dusk. In those days, she was doing three or four sessions a day, including a lot of commercial work, and I think a lot of it just blended together. Allan Rinde -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:24:17 -0500 From: Mike Edwards Subject: Re: Need Help To Find Song Leonardo Flores: > I was wondering if you could help me identify the singer of > a fab soul song: The song's either called "Seven day lover" OR > "Seven day woman", BUT IT'S NOT THE JAMES FOUNTAIN SONG! This > song is sung by a woman. Hi Leonardo, From recordmaster.com there is: Raymond Smith: "Seven Day Lover" on the Nine Chains label from 1975. I do not know this title so I am not sure this helps. Searching under 'seven day' brought up a song that's not too far from my mental turntable on a Friday evening: Gary US Bonds - "Seven Day Weekend". What a song that is! I see the same title by Elvis Costello, Jimmy Cliff and Foghat. Couldn't be the same song, could it? Hope all is well with you, Leonardo, and the Knitting Factory there in Hollywood is keeping on rocking. Mike Edwards -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:39:12 -0000 From: Phil Chapman Subject: Re: Need Help to Find Song Leonardo Flores: > My dear DJ friend is trying to locate a song; this is how > she identifies it: > "I was wondering if you could help me identify the singer > of a fab soul song: The song's either called "Seven day > lover" OR "Seven day woman", Leonardo, I chased the same title after hearing an irresistible (soul night) dance floor filler. It turned out to be Etta James' "Seven Day Fool". Great record, any day of the week! Maybe the one? Phil -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 25 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:40:55 -0500 From: James Botticelli Subject: Re: Need Help to Find Song Leonardo Flores wrote: > "I was wondering if you could help me identify the singer of > a fab soul song: The song's either called "Seven day lover" OR > "Seven day woman", BUT IT'S NOT THE JAMES FOUNTAIN SONG! This > song is sung by a woman." I'm guessing Etta James "Seven Day Fool"... '...and on a monday...' JB / Soul Scholar worth Every Dollar -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
End

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