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Spectropop - Digest Number 678



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______________        S  P  E  C  T  R  O  P  O  P        ______________
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                        Jamie LePage (1953-2002)
                  http://www.spectropop.com/Jamie.htm
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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Their Own Covers
           From: Leonardo Flores 
      2. Re: how can they do that?
           From: Zombie7123 
      3. We miss you Claudine!!!
           From: Ken Levine 
      4. Re: Byrds
           From: Richard Hattersley 
      5. Don Ralke
           From: Paul Urbahns 
      6. Re: Artie Wayne/Freddie & The Dreamers
           From: Mike Edwards 
      7. Re: The Actionettes
           From: Phil Milstein 
      8. Re: how can they do that?
           From: bryan 
      9. Re: Their Own Covers
           From: Paul Richards 
     10. Re: how can they do that?
           From: Frank 
     11. Don Ralke
           From: Rex Strother 
     12. Re: Then He Kissed Me - official!
           From: Stuffed Animal 
     13. Continuing story of who played on what
           From: J.H. Ket 
     14. BYRDS in the studio
           From: Freeman Carmack 
     15. Re: Art for Artie's sake
           From: Artie Wayne 
     16. Re: Melody thievery
           From: Stewart Mason 
     17. re: Art for Arties' sake
           From: Artie Wayne 
     18. Re: Byrds
           From: Mikey 
     19. RIP Michael Stewart
           From: Bobby Lloyd 
     20. Re: Continuing story of who played on what
           From: Mikey 
     21. Re: BYRDS in the studio
           From: Mikey 
     22. Re: BYRDS in the studio
           From: Ron Weekes 
     23. Re: Freddie & The Dreamers
           From: Artie Wayne 
     24. Re: Copyrights
           From: James Botticelli 
     25. Odds& Sods
           From: Ken Silverwood 


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Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:47:20 -0000
   From: Leonardo Flores 
Subject: Their Own Covers

One of my favorite covers from an earlier version done by 
the same group is Flo & Eddie's Version of "Elenore". The 
Turtles version is a true pop masterpiece while Flo & Eddie's 
version is a great rock song. Dig how they mic-ed the drums 
on the stereo version on the F&E version! Both versions are 
very fun and exciting. 

I have brought this up before but I believe one of the most 
"perfect" 60s pop songs ever recorded was Gary Lewis and the 
Playboys' song "Jill".  Just an all around fantastic arrangement, 
songwriting, performance, mix, recording, etc etc. I still 
can't get enough of those flutes with the delay and what I 
have to assume are Hal Blaine's tom-toms throughout the song.  
Just seems the song was well thought out but at the same time 
didn't lose its spontaneity when it was recorded.

I'm off to see the falling stars.

Cheers

Leonardo



-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:29:14 -0000 From: Zombie7123 Subject: Re: how can they do that? David A. Young wrote: > While authorship of "Someday" is credited to the group, > its melody is 100% that of Rachel and the Revolvers' "Number > One", written by Brian Wilson and Gary Usher. Start to finish. > I'm not talking about a section or a heavy influence. I'm > talking litigation-level thievery. How is this possible? > Did they just hope that no one would notice? Hey, it happens all the time. I have a copy of Jorge Ben's 1972 Brazilian hit "Taj Mahal" which has the EXACT same melody of Rod Stewart's 1978 "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy?" Oh, did I mention that Rod Stewart is known to have visited Brazil in 1972 when "Taj Mahal" was at the top of the charts and blasting out of every radio? Coincidence? Jorge Ben didn't think so either. He sued Rod and won a huge out-of-court cash settlement; apparently the royalties from "Do Ya..." are now donated in perpetuity to Unicef. But the real question is the same: what in hell did Rod think he was doing? Did he actually think he was going to get away with it? Or was it unconscious plagiarism a la George Harrison/My Sweet Lord/He's So Fine? Rod refuses to discuss it. There are dozens of other examples as well: I listen to a very wide variety of music from a wide variety of eras and countries and I hear borrowings/rip-offs/direct copying all the time. Some are quite bizarre. (The disco hit "Do the Hustle," for example, is a 100% direct copy of a 1920s-era Louis Armstrong tune! Who would have known?) There was a brilliant "Partridge Family" episode (if such a thing is possible) that goes into this topic in some depth: Keith composes a great new song for the band, only to realize too late that it was a tune he had once heard somewhere else. Much hot water and hilarity ensues. Personally, I think someone should write a whole book on this topic. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:38:46 -0800 From: Ken Levine Subject: We miss you Claudine!!! FINALLY !!!! Just in time for winter and the ski season!!! The website we've all been waiting for. The most misunderstood woman in show business. It's time to forgive and forget and celebrate.... CLAUDINE LONGET http://home.earthlink.net/~elbroome/longet/ Ken -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:00:34 +0000 From: Richard Hattersley Subject: Re: Byrds Mikey: >Not so fast, Jackson. Hal Blaine played on "Turn Turn Turn". Is that really true? I had always thought that it was Clarke. Where did you find this info. I'll admit I've always been amazed that the drums sounded so "pro" on this track when compared to some confirmed Mike Clarke recordings like "Change Is Now". So I wouldn't be surprised if it was Blaine. Richard http://www.mp3.com/richard_snow -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:29:04 EST From: Paul Urbahns Subject: Don Ralke There's been discussion on Don Ralke. He was the musical director of the very first Mystic Moods album, "One Stormy Night". We know what a trend that started. Paul Urbahns -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 07:31:16 -0500 From: Mike Edwards Subject: Re: Artie Wayne/Freddie & The Dreamers Artie wrote: > and another song by Freddy and the Dreamers....produced > by Dennis Lambert and Lou Courtney ....for the now infamous > "Do the Freddy" album..."In my Baby's Arms" which I wrote with > Ben Raleigh." This song is now on musica, and it is a nice piece of Merseybeat. Enjoy, Mike Edwards -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:56:45 +0000 From: Phil Milstein Subject: Re: The Actionettes Delia Barnard wrote: > Hello Jimmy/Potential Actionettes... > Actionettes delights in being a sexist organization whereby > we ONLY LET LADIES JOIN! > You boys go and start your own dance troupe! > We will be happy to have joint shows with you though... > Location is not a problem as long as you don't mind travelling > to shows....You will have to learn the dances by email though! Dear Actionettes, I regret to inform you that I'll be unable to take you up on your kind offer to become the first male Actionette, due to an ongoing electrolysis appointment at precisely the time of your weekly rehearsals. And dang the luck, too, as I had prepared an absolutely splendid Actionette name for myself: Pleshette, after the glamdiferorous '60s Disneyette Suzette Pleshette. Perhaps next year. Until then, --Phil M.(ette) -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 06:50:54 -0800 From: bryan Subject: Re: how can they do that? >There was a brilliant "Partridge Family" > episode (if such a thing is possible) that goes into this topic > in some depth: Keith composes a great new song for the band, > only to realize too late that it was a tune he had once heard > somewhere else. Much hot water and hilarity ensues. I believe, if memory serves, that Keith's new song was an exact duplicate of the song that his brother Danny had written. He'd heard it performed by Danny in the next bedroom, and it seeped through the wall and into Keith's subconcious. Bryan -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:55:17 EST From: Paul Richards Subject: Re: Their Own Covers I agree Leonardo,'Jill' is such a fantastic record,I'd love to hear if Gary Lewis did anything similar from 68/69.I'll have to get out my copy & give it a spin again. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:56:45 +0100 From: Frank Subject: Re: how can they do that? Zombie7123: > But the real question is the same: what > in hell did Rod think he was doing? Did he actually think he > was going to get away with it? Or was it unconscious plagiarism > a la George Harrison/My Sweet Lord/He's So Fine? Rod refuses > to discuss it. I'd like to know where does this "unconscious plagiarism a la George Harrison/My Sweet Lord/He's So Fine?" version comes from. Was this the official explanation from George himself? If it is so, with all due respect -and I really like George Harrison- I don't believe it one second. Unconscious plagiarism may happen with an unknown previous work, but I'll never believe that with all the people who worked with George (if only during the recording session) not one of them (including George himself) recognised "He's So Fine". A million seller and a huge success in Europe too! Come on. Just as I don't believe any more that Rod Stewart was the victim of "unconscious plagiarism a la George Harrison" Frank -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:52:41 -0700 From: Rex Strother Subject: Don Ralke I noticed the name of Don Ralke pop up and I've been trying to find out anything about this 45 and the Kay Bell Singers. Can anyone help? My aunt Kay Bell had this among her personal effects, but does not recall recording it. BECAUSE I LIKE YOU (Childress) / VALLEY OF ROMANCE (Childress) Kay Bell Singers with Don Ralke Orchestra Hot Records H-4 / 45 rpm -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:55:34 +0000 From: Stuffed Animal Subject: Re: Then He Kissed Me - official! I wonder how many "takes" it took La La Brooks to get the vocals down to Phil's satisfaction? Stuffed Animal -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:31:01 +0100 From: J.H. Ket Subject: Continuing story of who played on what Bill George: >> Earlier in the book, he opens the discussion of whether >> or not the Byrds played on their own records. According to >> Chris Hillman and everyone else interviewed, "Mr. Tambourine >> Man" featured McGuinn on electric 12-string and McGuinn, >> Clark and Crosby on vocals. All the other instruments were >> played by studio musicians. But the quintet of McGuinn, Clark, >> Hillman, Crosby and Clarke played on all the other recordings. Mikey: >Not so fast, Jackson. Hal Blaine played on "Turn Turn Turn". Earl Palmer claims in his book "Back Beat" that he played drums on the "Pacific recordings" of the Byrds. Do the linernotes of one of the recent re-releases of those sessions say anything about this subject? Hans Ket -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:39:02 -0000 From: Freeman Carmack Subject: BYRDS in the studio If you listen to the hidden studio out-takes and chatter on THE NOTORIOUS BYRD BROTHERS reissue, an angry argument breaks out between David Crosby and Mike Clarke regarding his drumming. I seem to remember reading that Jim Gordon finished the tracks that David took exception to. I also remember reading that, at least on the early tracks released to radio, Hal Blaine was the drummer. Freeman Carmack -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 08:49:19 -0800 (PST) From: Artie Wayne Subject: Re: Art for Artie's sake Jan.....the Art Wayne on "Try,Try Again" isn't me. It may be a forties band singer who had the same name and passed away about thirty years ago. regards, Artie Wayne -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:38:27 -0500 From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: Melody thievery David A. Young asks: >But then track ten came on and my pleasure turned to dismay. While >authorship of "Someday" is credited to the group, its melody is 100% >that of Rachel and the Revolvers' "Number One", written by Brian >Wilson and Gary Usher. Start to finish. I'm not talking about a >section or a heavy influence. I'm talking litigation-level thievery. >How is this possible? Did they just hope that no one would notice? Probably more like they figured no one would care. The Prissteens album (which I too like a lot) probably sold about 18 copies, hardly enough to go to the expense of litigation. The last time I remember someone getting popped for melody theft was Elastica's first album, back in '95, and you might remember that Wire and the Stranglers (the UK post-punk bands who Elastica quite blatantly stole distinctive melodies from) only called foul when Elastica's album became a hit. This happens more often than you'd suspect. Late '70s UK power-poppers the Motors baldly ripped off the melody of the Grass Roots' "Sooner Or Later" for their single "Forget About You," and a couple of albums later did the same with Steve Stills' "Love the One You're With" for their song "Love and Loneliness." And check out the chorus of Madonna's "Beautiful Stranger": you can't tell me she's never heard Love's "She Comes In Colors". Stewart -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:06:18 -0800 (PST) From: Artie Wayne Subject: re: Art for Arties' sake David A Young: > I'd like to jump on the Artie Wayne Welcome Wagon with a > mention of 1963's "Where Does a Rock & Roll Singer Go?" > written and recorded by Artie on Liberty 55625. David......Thanks for remembering " Where does a Rock n' Roll singer go ?" My other solo releases were singles on Smash as Artie Wayne.....on Coed as Terry Boyd....on DCP as Neil Sheppard ......on PYE as Ace of Spades. I also had an album on Casablanca as Arthur Wayne.....and an album Tomorrow productions distributed by Roulette as SHADOW MANN [not to be confused with Shadow Morton] > The bright, punchy production and hooks simply scream Nevins- > Kirschner, even though neither they nor Aldon are present > except in spirit. You busted me!!! I was a staff witer at Nevins/Kirshner from 1959 to 1961. I was an aspiring pop singer who learned how to write songs from Carole King, Gerry Goffin, Howie Greenfield. Ironicaly, It was Barry Mann who worked on demos with and showed me how to write better hooks. regards, Artie Wayne -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:47:16 -0500 From: Mikey Subject: Re: Byrds Richard Hattersley: > Is that really true? I had always thought that it was Clarke > on Turn Turn Turn. Where did you find this info. In an interview with Hal, he talks about how the problem with recording that song was the INSTRUMENTS, how the band kept coming in wrong. If you listen to the drumming, its vintage Hal. Nobody "pops" the snare drum quite like Hal does. Your Friend, Mikey -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:16:03 EST From: Bobby Lloyd Subject: RIP Michael Stewart Michael Stewart, two-time Grammy nominee who lead the popular 1960s folk-rock group We Five and produced Billy Joel's breakthrough "Piano Man' album, died Wednesday at age 57 after a long illness. ------------------ [ The full story can be found in the articles area http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/articles ] -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:59:28 -0500 From: Mikey Subject: Re: Continuing story of who played on what Hans: > Earl Palmer claims in his book "Back Beat" that he played > drums on the "Pacific recordings" of the Byrds. Do the > linernotes of one of the recent re-releases of those sessions > say anything about this subject? Now THIS I do not believe. Maybe he played on the Beefeaters 45, but that's got to be about it. The Pacific Recordings (I assume you mean the World Pacific Recordings) were only intended as demos to get the band a record deal, and Clark is DEFINITELY on those recordings. The drumming pretty much stinks on those recordings, no way that's Earl Palmer. Also no way they'd PAY Earl Palmer to play on demos. Of course, Earl may be confused. He may have played on a later day Byrds track when Hal wasn't available. Happened a lot, that's why Earl is on "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling", Hal was doing another date. Mike Your Friend -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:03:44 -0500 From: Mikey Subject: Re: BYRDS in the studio Freeman Carmack: > I also remember reading that, at least on the early tracks > released to radio, Hal Blaine was the drummer. Yea, Terry Melcher used the Wrecking crew on most of his productions, and why not? They knew how to make the hits. The Rip Chords, The Fantastic Baggies, Bruce and Terry, The Woodies, The Legendary Masked Surfers, The Wheel Men... all TM productions, all Wrecking Crew. Mikey -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 22 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:49:08 -0700 From: Ron Weekes Subject: Re: BYRDS in the studio Freeman wrote: > If you listen to the hidden studio out-takes and chatter on > THE NOTORIOUS BYRD BROTHERS reissue, an angry argument breaks > out between David Crosby and Mike Clarke regarding his drumming. And you'll also hear producer Gary Usher trying to keep things under contol. Not an enviable job! Ron Weekes http://www.garyusher.com -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:57:54 -0800 (PST) From: Artie Wayne Subject: Re: Freddie & The Dreamers Mike Edwards: > This song [Freddie & the Dreamers' "In My Baby's Arms"] is now on > musica, and it is a nice piece of Merseybeat. Thanks Mike.........I can barely remember it. regards, Artie Wayne -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:55:42 -0500 From: James Botticelli Subject: Re: Copyrights Zombie7123: > I hear borrowings/rip-offs/direct copying all the time. Some are > quite bizarre. Personally, I think someone should write a whole > book on this topic. I heard a report on the Warner Brothers, makers of the film 'Casablanca', suing the Marx Brothers for using the word in 'Night In Casablanca'. Groucho argued that you couldn't own the rights to a country's name, furthermore that the Marx Brothers were copyrighted before Warner Brothers existed and that the Marxes would sue the Warners for using "brothers" after the Marx boys used it! JB -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 25 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:55:28 -0000 From: Ken Silverwood Subject: Odds& Sods Just a quick run through of a few ongoing threads: I always thought of Dave Clark's drumming as a wind up (key-wise) and he could out smile Mighty Max any day of the week. The Five & The Hermits were always more popular in the US than UK as a result of their constant touring in the USA, compared to relatively few jaunts in the UK. - Mr. Clark was a very shrewd businessman. The note progression used at the outset of "Then He Kissed Me" has been used on a few recordings besides "Boys Cry", it's on "If Mary's There" by Brian Hyland, which also uses a variation on the middle section of "Save The Last Dance For Me" plus Bruce Springsteen's "Racing In The Streets" Just been listening to the Paris Sisters "Always Waitin'" and picked out the line "you've lost that lovin' feeling". Is that where it comes from as I've never heard it used before or since? After the good words spoken by the good people of Spectropop I have been out and invested in a copy of John Clemente's book on Girl Groups, I have not been disappointed, thank you John. Regards Ken On The West Coast -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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