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Spectropop - Digest Number 627



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______________        S  P  E  C  T  R  O  P  O  P        ______________
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                        Jamie LePage (1953-2002)
                  http://www.spectropop.com/Jamie.htm
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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. John Carter/Flower Pot Men/Koki Emura
           From: Mark Frumento 
      2. Re: A Big Thank You to Spectropop members
           From: Terrie Neilson 
      3. Re: American Dreams...
           From: Dave Swanson 
      4. Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder
           From: Robert 
      5. The Monkees
           From: Guy Lawrence 
      6. Stranger on the Shore
           From: Doc 
      7. Commercial freakout
           From: Phil Milstein 
      8. The Teen Queens and Sherrill Rocker
           From: Brian Ferrari 
      9. I Wonder
           From: Keith Beach 
     10. Re: American Dreams...
           From: Louise Posnick 
     11. Re: Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder
           From: Phil Chapman 
     12. Re: Commercial freakout
           From: Tim Looney 
     13. RE: Commercial freakout
           From: Louise Posnick 
     14. Brand New Cadillac
           From: Hans Ket  
     15. Standing In The Shadows Of Motown
           From: Eric Charge 
     16. Re: 60s garage songs
           From: James Botticelli 
     17. Re: American Dreams...
           From: Phil Milstein 
     18. Re: Commercial freakout
           From: Patrick Rands 
     19. Re: The Monkees
           From: Denise 
     20. Re: Commercial freakout
           From: james botticelli 
     21. Commercial freakout continued
           From: Neil Hever 
     22. Re: The Monkees
           From: richard hattersley 
     23. Re: The Monkees
           From: Jeffrey Mlinscek 
     24. Looking for help (Christmas Songs)
           From: Tim 
     25. Re: Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder
           From: Billy Spradlin 


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Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 20:57:13 -0400
   From: Mark Frumento 
Subject: John Carter/Flower Pot Men/Koki Emura

The Flower Pot Men question reminded me to comment 
on/ask about John Carter related releases on CD. 
Listed below are the CDreleases I know of. Can anyone 
add to this list... I would love to hear from you...

1. Flower Pot Men - Let's Go to San Francisco - 
Repertoire (Germany) 
2. Flower Pot Men - A Walk in the Sky - RPM (UK) 
3. Flower Pot Men - Peace Album/Past Imperfect - 
Repertoire (Germany) 
4. Stamford Bridge - 2fer CD - See For Mile (UK) - 
Out of print 
5. First Class -  2fer CD - See For Mile (UK) - 
Out of print 
6. Kincade - Best Of - Repertoire (Germany) 
7. Ivy League - Major League - Sequel (UK) 
8. Carter/Lewis and the Southerners - ?? (UK)
9. John Carter - As You Like It Vol 1- Westside (UK)
10. Band of the Black Watch - The Sands of Time - 
GNP (UK?)
11. John Carter - The Essential Works in the Studio 
1963-1982 - EM (Japan) 
12. First Class - Essential Collection of - EM (Japan) - 
I NEED THIS!  Anyone have a tip as to where to get it!!!

Despite all of these CD releases I seems as if John Carter 
really hasn't had the attention he deserves. I suppose that 
is to be expected with a song writer who has used so many 
names. It would be wonderful to see a renewed and more 
comprehensive reissue program on bands like First Class and 
Stamford Bridge.

In connection with this: does anyone know how to reach Koki 
Emura of EM Records? The email address I have is out of date.

Mark



-------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2 Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 22:11:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Terrie Neilson Subject: Re: A Big Thank You to Spectropop members Here I am - I made it! I am the allegedly famous Terrie that Richard Tearle speaks of. Thank you Richard for passing things along to me. Freeman has since joined my Smothers Brothers group and posted some great stuff. I have to say that, likely because I came so late to the 60s (December 1968), there were a lot of things I missed - as are well illustrated. If I seem like a lurker, it may only be because I'm taking in all this stuff. Terrie -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:04:00 -0500 From: Dave Swanson Subject: Re: American Dreams... Like I said, nostalgia is a cheap whore, but I never said we all don't crave a cheap whore now and again. And by the way, Motown isn't my main floozy, it's just that I happened to be listening to Marvin Gaye while typing. I also, obviously, thought it somewhat ironic hence the mention of it at the end of my message. My problem with these kinds of shows are they cheapen everything. They make it all sanitized and lame. I have no problem with enjoying the music and memories of the past. God knows I listen to plenty of old music, more than new stuff usually. That is not the point. The point is this constant media push for the generic story of the past whether it's in a show like American Dreams or has-beens pushing "Hits Of The 60s" cds on TV infomercials. There is so much more to the past than what is delivered on radio, TV, print etc. This is beyond obvious. I guess the bottom line of all this is why are all forms of media dragged down to the lamest forms. I know there is no answer for that question that hasn't been answered a million times. I ain't lookin' for an answer. The 60s were an important time in history for many many reasons, music being among the first and foremost. Shows like American Dreams serve their purpose, but they are still lame as hell. I have nothing against "your generation", and when I said it's over let it go, I was refering to the media. We all have memories we want to hold on to, but these kind of shows are just so damn corny. Kids'll find out about stuff and yeah TV helps. Hell, Nick Drake sold more records after his music was used in a car commercial than probably ever before that. It's a bit unsettling a head turn every time I hear T.Rex blaring from the TV and realize it's another commercial. But that's what it's all come down to. And no, I don't want to see shows like Fear Factor either, personally if that's the choice, I'd rather not watch TV. But that's another pit of worms to gnaw on. Hendrix huh. OK, but I don't wish I was there. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:13:01 -0000 From: Robert Subject: Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder I have just found and joined this group today, having been a Crystals fan since 1963. La La Brooks has the greatest voice of all time. Two questions: On CD "Then He Kissed Me" sounds slower, lower pitched, and with far less treble than on my 38 year old 45, as well as an EP and LP from the mid 80s. Did they speed up the tape to make the records or slow it down for transfer to CD? The records sound much better, the CD version is very disappointing. Secondly, what is the refrain in the Crystals' version of "I Wonder"? I've heard various explanations, all quite different, but can't work out La La's words in the third line of the chorus. Many thanks, Robert (in Australia, where THKM got to no.1 in Nov 63) -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5 Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:53:46 -0700 From: Guy Lawrence Subject: The Monkees Anyone know of a Monkees website that features hard facts about their recordings, session musicians, songwriters etc (kind of like the stuff we discuss here) rather than just fan club type stuff and what they're up to at the moment? Regards, Guy Lawrence. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6 Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 19:41:11 -0400 From: Doc Subject: Stranger on the Shore As I recall, this song originally had a different title, a woman's name. Anyone recall that? Doc -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7 Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:43:33 +0000 From: Phil Milstein Subject: Commercial freakout As long as we're discussing the use of cool music on TV, I thought it not inappropriate to bring up the topic of cool music used in TV ads. I am of two minds on this myself -- on the one hand, the use of a great song to help sell a new mouthwash or laundry detergent inevitably trivializes that song; but on the other hand, such usage does enliven an otherwise-dull commercial, plus it's heartening to see (or at least assume to see) our heroes receive a tidy and wholly unexpected payday. When I'm merely reacting and not thinking about it, I generally enjoy hearing a groovy tune come on the TV once in a while, albeit truncated and talked over. Cool songs were used in commercials when I was kid, too, but back then they were always adulterated: rerecorded in tamer arrangements, and with the lyrics altered to suit the product in question, usually awkwardly so. Now, not only are the original versions used, but the selections are getting more and more obscure, and more and more extreme. I was surprised, for instance, when I first heard Iggy Pop's Lust For Life in an ad (the first of many, as it turned out), and shocked when I heard The Stooges' Raw Power. But tonight I heard a song, in a car ad, that left me dumbfounded: The Stooges' LA Blues, the insane, freeform freakout that closed their Funhouse LP. Music this severe has rarely been heard on any television broadcast, in any context. I tip my hat to the hepness of whoever is choosing these things, and, beyond that, to the agencies and sponsors who agree to their use ... while reiterating that, at the same time, I'm not entirely comfortable with it. If there's a lesson to be learned from this trend, it's that it represents a tacit agreement that a mass audience can sit still for small bits of good, and even extreme, music, and indeed that such pieces can even compel their attention. However, the state of commercial radio indicates that those same sponsors do not expect that same audience to sit still for steady doses of it. Interesting that trends in the two situations seem to be moving in opposite directions. --Phil Milstein -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8 Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 23:34:41 EDT From: Brian Ferrari Subject: The Teen Queens and Sherrill Rocker Hello I have been listening to the Poodle Skirts and Poni-Tails Vol. 3 CD (Babe 2007). I have a couple of questions about two excellent tracks on this collection. As this series doesn't have any type of liner notes whatsoever, I thought I'd throw these questions to all of you. The track "Promises, Promises, Promises" is credited to the Teen Queens. I have never seen this included in discographies. Besides, it sounds like a solo singer here. Any info? The other track is "Don't Say Nothin'" - credited to Sherrill Rocker and Group. It sounds like it was recorded down the hall, under a blanket. I'm not sure if it originally sounded this way, or if it happened in the transfer to CD. Even so, it's an infectious little ditty. The only thing these two have in common, besides being very catchy tunes, is that they both fall into that "is it a guy or a girl singer?" category. Of course the label states that they are women... if so, they are tenors. Thanks for your help Brian Ferrari -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:16:34 +0100 From: Keith Beach Subject: I Wonder Sitting at my office desk...incoming email re Crystals "I wonder"...screw doing any work, I have to answer this email query Chorus is, to the best of my memory, humming it in my head, AND I WONDER WHO HE'LL BE WONDER IF HE'LL BE GOOD TO ME WONDER...GOSH OH GEE WONDER IF HE'LL LOVE ME FOR EVER This may be a pile of cack, but it's what I singalong to keith beach -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:03:37 -0400 From: Louise Posnick Subject: Re: American Dreams... Dave: > My problem with these kinds of shows are they cheapen > everything. They make it all sanitized and lame. I > have no problem with enjoying the music and memories > of the past. Your response is appreciated...I still think that you have mixed emotions about the OLD DAYS..like you want to reap the benefits of the music, but don't don't wish to be cluttered but the events ...lots of the music, especially Marvin Gaye (What's Goin' On), Curtis Mayfield, and so many others, created their music based on the important events...the events were the catalysts for great writing and protest...you say the music was the most important thing..it was the messenger for the most important thing..human and Civil Rights, womens' rights, childrens' rights, etc,......but again, the important messages will get out to those who chose to check it out.. (I mentioned Marvin at the end of the message for no other reason than I mentioned it at the end..when I re-read what you had written...I am at work and get distracted)...anyway ...I think this is a good dialogue...you know, Father Knows Best was a real show on during the 50s and early 60s and it was sanitized and representative of what some people thought to be the life of the times...so this new show is not all that CHEAP in its representation of some of the population at the time...Leave It to Beaver, My Three Sons, and I could go on..did exist and were not far from the American Dream Scenario...the difference is that because this is a lookback, more messages can be given to our youth - messages that had not yet been resolved or even discussed during the early 60s.. abortion, interracial relationships, working poor, class distinctions (in America - pray tell)...so this show, if it lasts, may serve up more than some music - but the music makes it palatable for some of us, because not all the memories of those times was wonderful. Just more food for thought. The ED SULLIVAN SHOW, was lame too, but everyone from Bill Haley and the Comets, to Aretha was on that show.... we were LAME by today's standards...can you get that, and it was real.....so the representation should present as lame... to be HIP was to be a rebel and TV didn't like to put that on in those days....so sit back for a moment and do a time warp in your mind and maybe you will realize that to represent the 60s has to include a certain amount of anal retentive behaviors, 'cause that is who white America was....and for the most part.. still is; it just wears Gucci....Thanks for this banter..it is healthy to remember. Louise -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:28:49 -0000 From: Phil Chapman Subject: Re: Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder Robert wrote: > Two questions: On CD "Then He Kissed Me" sounds > slower, lower pitched, and with far less treble > than on my 38 year old 45.... "Then He Kissed Me" is in the key of E major. I've never noticed any variation in pitch between CD and the vinyl issues (just checked to be sure). However, the CD is theoretically from the master tape, and, like so many of our favourties from the time, lacks the punch of the 45. It's long been a fad with contemporary recording technique to recreate the '60s vinyl' effect. But there's nothing like the real thing, and I'm continually entertained by the use of actual 60s rhythm samples, complete with over-modulation, in modern dance records. > La La Brooks has the greatest voice of all time. "I Wonder" is an all-time fave, checkout the power of La La in the backing vocals and lead on the end choruses. I used to sing along with something quite incomprehensible, but phonetically pleasing, long after I worked out that the 3rd line was "Gosh Oh Gee"... It's not something we Brits say very often:-) Phil -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:08:29 -0400 From: Tim Looney Subject: Re: Commercial freakout on another list that I am on, the subject of music we love appearing in commercials came up (a number of times now) and the most relevant comment made was "why is it that we are more likely to hear our favorite songs in a Gap ad rather than on the radio?" As mentioned, I think it is a good thing that Nick Drake was introduced to a whole new generation thanks to VW. On the otherhand, I don't think I could ever take James Brown's 'I Feel Good' seriously again. If I hear it I am getting in line to buy something. I find it more disappointing when these artists write and perform songs for the commercials (Ray Charles comes to mind) than when one of their great songs is co-opted by Madison Ave. But when it comes down to it the commercials will sometimes bring these artists a paycheck. tim -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:06:44 -0400 From: Louise Posnick Subject: RE: Commercial freakout Phil Milstein re. songs used in commercials: > ...I tip my hat to the hepness of whoever is choosing these > things, and, beyond that, to the agencies and sponsors who > agree to their use ... while reiterating that, at the same > time, I'm not entirely comfortable with it. If there's a > lesson to be learned from this trend, it's that it > represents a tacit agreement that a mass audience can sit > still for small bits of good, and even extreme, music, and > indeed that such pieces can even compel their attention. > However, the state of commercial radio indicates that those > same sponsors do not expect that same audience to sit still > for steady doses of it. Interesting that trends in the two > situations seem to be moving in opposite directions. Phil, I like what you are saying.....interesting. Louise -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:56:20 +0200 From: Hans Ket Subject: Brand New Cadillac Dan Hughes wrote: > I've never heard of Brand New Cadillac! It did not make > the charts in the USA. Who did it originally? According to my information Vince Taylor and the Playboys was the original (1958?) They even had a hit with it in France. In the sixties the song was quite popular among Scandinavian and Dutch groups. Some additions to the list: De Maskers (1965) Dutch The Renegades (1965) Scandinavia The Shamrocks (65/66) Scandinavia Hans Ket -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:14:32 +0100 From: Eric Charge Subject: Standing In The Shadows Of Motown The film is on at the London Film Festival. They say: "I can confirm that this will be screened as part of the London Film Festival on the following dates: Fri 15 Nov 15.30 Odeon West End Sat 16 Nov 18.30 Odeon West End Please contact our box office for more details on 0207 928 3232" -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:03:20 -0400 From: James Botticelli Subject: Re: 60s garage songs Don Underwood wrote: > ....some of the Rock "n" Soul and Rock "n" Roll songs that > I heard a lot during this time....(including).... > Time Won't Let Me (so popular we hired the Outsiders for our > 1969 prom) That, I would have liked to have seen, but of COURSE, I'm way too young - I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Lenny Kaye's 1972 collection "Nuggets". That was Garage 101 in a nutshell--or maybe, more accurately, a vinyl sphere. It's been reissued by Rhino as one of four CDs in the garage package likewise referred to as "Nuggets". A year or two ago they also reissued "British Nuggets". "Nuggets" of course led to "Pebbles", "Boulders", "Back From The Grave", Arf-Arf Records, the 80s Nouveau-Garage sound of Chesterfield Kings, The Cynics, The Lyres, and the like.....and on it goethe. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:55:48 +0000 From: Phil Milstein Subject: Re: American Dreams... I apologize in advance for veering the discussion further off-course, but I would like to insert my observation here that even under the best of circumstances, historical dramas (in any medium) tell us more about the era in which they're presented than about the one they're assuming to represent. No matter how well-intentioned the production may be, its creators still need to try to garner an audience, which invariably causes them to conform the historical "facts" to present-day dramatical fashions. And TV, with its need to reduce issues to fit neat time constraints, as well as to neatly resolve each episode, is usually the worst offender. --Phil Milstein -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:46:04 -0000 From: Patrick Rands Subject: Re: Commercial freakout Phil Milstein wrote: > As long as we're discussing the use of cool music on TV, I > thought it not inappropriate to bring up the topic of cool > music used in TV ads. Check out this article for some interesting points to ponder. http://robwalker.net/html_docs/clash.html -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:18:58 EDT From: Denise Subject: Re: The Monkees Guy writes: > Anyone know of a Monkees website that features hard > facts about their recordings, session musicians, > songwriters etc Try this site: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/3152/ And if that doesn't meet your needs check all over http://www.monkees.net which is the most comprehensive Monkees website available with links to just about anything dealing with the Monkees. Denise (Rob's wife) -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:17:46 -0400 From: james botticelli Subject: Re: Commercial freakout Phil Milstein re. songs used in commercials: > ...I tip my hat to the hepness of whoever is choosing these > things, and, beyond that, to the agencies and sponsors who > agree to their use ... while reiterating that, at the same > time, I'm not entirely comfortable with it. If there's a > lesson to be learned from this trend, it's that it > represents a tacit agreement that a mass audience can sit > still for small bits of good, and even extreme, music, and > indeed that such pieces can even compel their attention. > However, the state of commercial radio indicates that those > same sponsors do not expect that same audience to sit still > for steady doses of it. Interesting that trends in the two > situations seem to be moving in opposite directions. A few electronica artists I know or know of are continuously trying to get their music INTO commercials as the radio refuses to take it commercially seriously enough. Nicola Conte, who blends real life players with pieces of electronica to form a modern Italia-Bossa Nova sensibility, scored last year with "Bossa Per Due" which made it into an Acura commercial. It is strong enough to stand alone, as is much electronica, a sadly maligned and disrespected (by older folks) new music. More recently Ursula 1000 from NYC was included in a commercial I have yet to hear with (I think) his "Beatbox Cha Cha". For a primer on some hip electronica mixing, listen to Ursula 1000's mega-mix called "All Systems Are Go-Go", which features primarily the new German, Danish, Japanese, and Italian artists mixed for your listening and dancing pleasure.(http://www.ursula1000.com) Click Discography, then the third album cover from the left...... JB/no commercial connection, but a friend and fan of "Ursula" -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:50:03 -0000 From: Neil Hever Subject: Commercial freakout continued Folks, How about "London Calling" by the Clash used to sell Jaguars? At least "Lust for life" makes sense to sell travel. "London calling" is about the apocolypse!!! Here are some lyrics: "the ice cap is melting, the sun is zooming in, a nuclear era but I have no fear 'cuz London is drowning and I...live by the river!" I think all of these more extreme choices fall under the mnemonic category - a device with words or sound that get your attention. There is another terrible use of a song for jeans. Perhaps you have heard the song "Fortunate Son" by CCR used out of context to sell pants. They use the line "some folks were born to raise the flag, ooh the red, white and blue!" and conveniently leave out "and when they play hail to the chief, ooh they point the cannon at you!" I wonder, does anybody else think about the irony of this stuff. A song about global warming used to sell cars? A song that questions patriotism used to sell flag-waving jeans? What an offense! Neil Hever -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 22 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:52:07 +0000 From: richard hattersley Subject: Re: The Monkees Guy, This is a pretty good Monkees site http://members.tripod.com/~colli/monkees.html It has session dates for the songs on each album and unreleased track details. With regard to the session guys who play on their tracks, the booklets in thr Rhino CDs are very informative giving details of who plays what when known. Here is another good page that I have just found: http://www.esoteric-solutions.co.uk/monkees/recordinginformationselect.htm This is a page from: http://www.themonkees.co.uk/ hope they help all the best richard http://www.mp3.com/richard_snow -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:53:12 -0400 From: Jeffrey Mlinscek Subject: Re: The Monkees Check this [Monkees] site out. http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/3152/ Jeff -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 23:08:20 -0000 From: Tim Subject: Looking for help (Christmas Songs) For the past two years I've been making christmas CDs for my friends during the holidays... this year I'm running out of material, so I'm soliciting any help. This is one of the few groups where I feel like I can get some good, less-conventional suggestions. I'm looking for unheralded gems here, but I'll take what I can. Any songs spring to mind? Thanks in advance, Tim -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 25 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 00:17:06 -0000 From: Billy Spradlin Subject: Re: Then He Kissed Me, I Wonder Phil: > "Then He Kissed Me" is in the key of E major. I've > never noticed any variation in pitch between CD and the > vinyl issues (just checked to be sure). Phil are you comparing the UK (London) or USA (Philles) 45 to the CD? (BTW I wish I could find a CD changer that had a pitch- control knob) Just curious! Billy -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
End

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