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Spectropop - Digest Number 1983



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               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Carole King versus the Honey Bees
           From: Mick Patrick 
      2. R.I.P. Obie Benson /  Luther Vandross
           From: Artie Wayne 
      3. Re: Mike Smith
           From: Steve Harvey 
      4. Re: "Happy Together," the gift that keeps on giving
           From: Steve Harvey 
      5. Re: "Phil's Spectre II: Another Wall Of Soundalikes"
           From: Peter Lerner 
      6. Re: "Morning Girl"
           From: Skip Woolwine 
      7. Talentmasters Studio photos
           From: S'pop Projects 
      8. Re: "Morning Girl"
           From: Nick Archer 
      9. Re: "Morning Girl" / Luther Vandross R.I.P.
           From: Bob Rashkow 
     10. Re: Philly acts post-1963
           From: S.J. Dibai 
     11. Re: "Morning Girl"
           From: John Fox 
     12. That Thing They Did
           From: David Coyle 
     13. Al Kooper in the NY Times; Brian "Smile"s; RIP Carson Parks; "event records"
           From: Country Paul 
     14. Re: "Susan"
           From: Bob Rashkow 
     15. Re: "Morning Girl" / Tupper Saussy
           From: Frank J 
     16. Re: Luther Vandross / Superstar
           From: Richard Havers 
     17. Re: "Superstar"
           From: Andrew Hickey 
     18. Re: Burdon in Boston
           From: Phil X Milstein 
     19. Re: "Superstar"
           From: Eddy 
     20. Re: "Superstar"
           From: Richard Havers 
     21. Re: "Superstar"
           From: Stanley Hartman 
     22. Re: That Thing They Did
           From: Rat Pfink 
     23. Re: "Superstar"
           From: Dave Heasman 
     24. "Too Much Talk"
           From: Bill Mulvy 


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Message: 1 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 19:57:50 +0100 From: Mick Patrick Subject: Carole King versus the Honey Bees Peter Andreasen: > Can anyone help me regarding a single released on Tomorrow 7502 > from 1966? On one side is "The Road To Nowhere" performed by > Carole King. On the other side is a recording of "Some Of Your > Lovin'". I only have this track on a bootleg CD, but no artist > is listed, and I can't tell if it's the same as the Honey Bees' > (Cookies) version from their Fontana 45. I am confused. I don't have the bootleg CD to which you refer, but I'm told it contains the Honey Bees' version of "Some Of Your Lovin'". However, I do have 45s of their version and the one by Carole King, so I've posted them both to musica for comparison. Details are: The Honey Bees "Some Of Your Lovin'" (Fontana 1505, 1965) Carole King "Some Of Your Lovin'" (Tomorrow 7502, 1966) Find musica here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/files/musica/ Of course, the song was written by Carole King and Gerry Goffin. Both versions were produced by Gerry Goffin. In fact, they share the same backing track. Btw, on this particular record, the Honey Bees were not the Cookies. Don't ask me who they were, though! Any questions/theories? Hey la, Mick Patrick -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 11:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Artie Wayne Subject: R.I.P. Obie Benson / Luther Vandross I was saddened to hear about the passing of Obie Benson of the Four Tops. I didn't know him, but like for many of us, their hits played strong in the soundtrack of my life. From their Holland/ Dozier/ Holland groundbreaking days at Motown to the Lambert/ Potter epics at ABC Dunhill...Obie was part of a group that was as comfortable with a song with social significance as they were with a romantic pop ballad. I was also deeply affected by the passing yesterday of my friend Luther Vandross. Everyone thought he was recovering from a stroke so nicely...but it's all in Gods hands. I became friendly with Luther when he was a loyal customer at Allan Rindes' Genghis Cohen, a Chinese restaurant and Hollywood hangout, which I hosted. Luther would come in, sit and eat a couple of Peking ducks for dinner and order one of my hand painted shirts for dessert. Sometimes he'd bring in old music buisness pals of Allan and mine and we'd all have a good old time! I was impressed with his artistry from his first album, which my friend, Jerome Gasper, who signed Luther to Epic played me. He wrote most of the material he recorded and hit the heart everytime out. I told him, with every new album release how much I admired him maintaining an evolving level of musical excellence, while the R and B genre all around us was all but disappearing. Just as their music has transcended generations...I'm sure it will continue to emotionally influence us for years to come. Rest in Peace, Artie Wayne http://artiewayne.com -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 08:45:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Harvey Subject: Re: Mike Smith Clark Besch wrote: > A little surprised by the outpouring of UK acts, as I always heard > the DC5 were not well liked by their fellow English rockers. Before he released the double DC5 Dave said he was just too busy making money (his musical, Time, etc.) to be bothered listening to the old stuff. He did release the double CD, but seems busy with personal and financial things to be bothered with the past. Guess he's given up being a stuntdouble too at his age. The anti-DC5 mentality is alive and well on the Mojo4Music messageboard, however. Steve Harvey -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 08:48:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Harvey Subject: Re: "Happy Together," the gift that keeps on giving James Cassidy wrote: > Alan Gordon will be pleased to know that the Turtles' version of > "Happy Together" is used (apparently intended to be ironic) in the > US trailer for the Isabelle Huppert film "Ma Mere." Not to mention that the Aramingo Diner in New Jersey uses it in their commercial too. Alan should be entitled to a few, free pieces of cheesecake next time he passes through. Steve Harvey -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 20:46:22 +0100 From: Peter Lerner Subject: Re: "Phil's Spectre II: Another Wall Of Soundalikes" Ray: > I can hardly wait for ("Phil's Spectre II: Another Wall Of > Soundalikes") to be released!!!! Volume I is still on heavy > rotation on my CD player. The Reparata track will be the highlight > for me...but I'm looking forward to all the selections. Any word on > a release date????" I've had mine for a week, courtesy of Swift Mail Order in the UK. Let me know offline if you need their details. It's very good indeed by the way. Especially Reparata. Peter -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 15:42:58 -0500 From: Skip Woolwine Subject: Re: "Morning Girl" John Fox wrote: > Reading about the "long" version of Susan by the Buckinghams > reminds me of this: Has anyone ever heard the "long" version of > Morning Girl by the Neon Philharmonic? Nick Archer wrote: > The extra stuff was the last cut on the LP, "Morning Girl, Later". > The stations that I worked for crossfaded the two tracks to make > something around 5 minutes long. Actually, Nick Archer probably means the Neon Philharmonic LP, "The Moth Confesses". There is a second, hard-to-find LP called simply "The Neon Philharmonic" also on Warner Brothers. The Neon Philharmonic story in itself is a treat: yet another example of non- country musical wizardry emanating from Nashville. I've come to communicate with the enigmatic Tupper Saussey over the last few years. (He was an acquaintance of my parents and their friends.) Virtually all of the Neon Philharmonic catalogue has been re-issued as a 2-CD set on Rhino Handmade, including a substantial amount of historical info and previously-unreleased tracks. It is said that there is a fine line between genius and madness, and that's the only way one can describe the incredible arrangements that Saussey threw at the musicians on these sessions. They were all recorded in a tiny studio with 2 x 4-track Ampex recorders at Acuff-Rose music publishing company... It was their demo studio... Used by folks like the Everly Brothers and Mickey Newberry. Saussey did almost everything: words and music, all the arrangements, all the keyboards. He told me that engineer Glen Snoddy would record 4 tracks on Ampex- A, then would playback Ampex-A, mixing with it yet another set of live musicians from the Nashville Symphony while recording to Ampex- B. They would do this a couple of times, and somehow never had any hiss buildup on the final versions. Now THAT was a clean studio! Put on the headphones and listen to all the hard-left-hard-right separation... Then ask yourself "what kind of madman arranged all this?" And it works...with "Brilliant Colors". Skip Woolwine -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 21:52:24 +0100 From: S'pop Projects Subject: Talentmasters Studio photos Chris Cotie wrote: > In Spectropop's web site was a question about Bob Gallo and Robert > Harvey of Talentmasters studio in New York. It is my understanding > Bob Gallo is in Canada still recording. Bob Harvey wrote articles > for Rolling Stone Mag in mid 1970s-1980s, but not sure of name he > used. A kid Bob Harvey brought over from England and knows a lot > about Talentmasters is Chris Huston who was in group Undertakers > and knows a lot about the period at Talentmasters from James Brown > through Led Zeppelin and is doing studio design today. I think Bob > Harvey has passed away but not sure. Chris Huston has a lot if you > do a google search and you will hear his influence on a lot of > great recordings. Will send some photos of Talentmasters in > separate post. The shots to which Chris refers have now been uploaded to the S'pop Photos Section: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/spectropop/lst Enjoy, The S'pop Team -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 18:50:10 -0500 From: Nick Archer Subject: Re: "Morning Girl" Skip Woolwine wrote: > Actually, Nick Archer probably means the Neon Philharmonic LP, "The > Moth Confesses". Sorry for the wording of my original message. "Morning Girl, Later" is the last cut on side 1 of the LP "The Moth Confesses". Nick -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 21:15:01 EDT From: Bob Rashkow Subject: Re: "Morning Girl" / Luther Vandross R.I.P. When Neon Philharmonic's "Morning Girl" was on the charts in spring '69 I always felt there was more to the record than was being spun. Kind of like Richard Harris' "MacArthur Park", I always had the idea that the brass and string section could go on for 4 or 5 minutes, creating the same kind of dramatic, profound effect. The 3-minute version stands on its own merits and is certainly one of the more memorable 1969 "almost-smashes." Luther Vandross, while not always someone I would die to listen to, did a remake of "Superstar" (Nichols and Williams?? Leon Russell??) by The Carpenters around 1984 that I believe is one of the most stunning remakes ever. It's as if the song was MEANT to be an R&B tune, and it was always one of my favorites by Karen and Richard too! We're sorry to see you go, Luther, and thanks for bringing that tune to a new height. Bobster -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10 Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:08:03 -0000 From: S.J. Dibai Subject: Re: Philly acts post-1963 Country Paul, responding to my inquiry: > The Four J's {"Here Am I Broken Hearted"} and Ernie & The Halos > {"Angel Marie") had Philly hits in the mid 60s. I looked up "Angel Marie" and the date was 1963. Subject to further research. As for the Four J's--well! I oughta be ashamed of myself! I think I forgot that they were popular in that era because of their sound. It's amazing how straight doo-wop records kept hitting in Philly into the mid-60s. Another goodie in this vein is Billy & the Essentials' "Babalu's Wedding Day," which was a big local hit in 1966. That one was originally by The Eternals.....right? > Also, was bandleader Bobby Gregg a Philadelphian? "The Jam" (Cotton > records) was a national hit. He was from Philly, and "The Jam" was recorded here. However, it is from 1962, thus not part of what I was asking about. Great record, though. S.J. Dibai -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 01:07:46 EDT From: John Fox Subject: Re: "Morning Girl" Nick Archer writes: > The extra stuff was the last cut on the LP, "Morning Girl, Later". Makes sense, since there is some "dead air" between where the single version we're all used to ends and the new stuff starts. Thanks for the info. I don't know how to do Musica, but someone asked me to send them the mp3 of this long version, which I will do and they can post it. John Fox -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 18:18:20 -0700 (PDT) From: David Coyle Subject: That Thing They Did Long story short: The Wonders songs, all written or cowritten by Adam Schlesinger of Fountains Of Wayne, and about half of them sung by Mike Viola of the Candy Butchers. Before the movie came out, the FsOW had an album out and the CBs had recorded a live EP. Both thought that their involvement with the soundtrack would lead to bigger and better things after the movie took off. Before that they just thought of it as some quick work for a quick paycheck. The end result wasn't quite what either party hoped for, although it probably did help pay for their groups' followup recordings. The Candy Butchers really didn't get anywhere and eventually split but the Fountains Of Wayne had a hit with "Stacy's Mom" from their third album, appeared as the Hollies on "American Dreams" and have just released a 2-CD set of b-sides and live cuts. They've done pretty well and their albums have consistently been good. I know that after the movie came out, Mike Viola tried his best to make his band's records as un-Wonders-like as he could, which was probably not a help. Their Christmas EP, with its pop-punk overhaul of Mariah Carey's "All I Want For Christmas Is You," is probably my favorite CBs recording. David -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13 Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 22:50:47 -0400 From: Country Paul Subject: Al Kooper in the NY Times; Brian "Smile"s; RIP Carson Parks; "event records" New news - nice article, including 1/3-page photo, of Al Kooper in Sunday (July 3)'s New York Times Arts & Entertainment section. Way to go, Alfonts! Catching up, briefly.... Florence Gray wrote: > I'm new here, so please forgive me if this is an old question BUT > ...has anyone attended any of Brian's SMILE performances? Welcome, Florie. Yes, many of us. My reaction to the Carnegie Hall Smile concert: Wow! Or, quoting Phil Milstein, "I think you are in for one the great musical events of your life!" (I couldn't have said it better.) But on the Pet Sounds symphonic tour, which I also saw at the Garden State Arts Center in New Jersey, I thought he was transcendant, too. Phoning it in, as you suggest? Well, he barely moved, but I felt it to be total concentration - and his voice was smiling, even if his face wasn't. It was as though you could watch him fighting his demons - and winning. I was so overwhelmed to be in attendance that I had tears in my eyes for a good portion of the event. Your comment, "it was amazing just to be breathing his air," leads me to believe you've found a good place to be here at Spectropop. Florie, later: > Clarence Carson Parks II, Brother Of Van Dyke, Passed Away This > Morning Ouch - sadly disturbing. I was recently playing some of his works, and thinking how under-rated he was. The Carson & Gaile version of Something Stupid remains my favorite, totally transcending Ol' Blue Eyes on that one. My sympathies to his brother and family. Phil M., interesting theory about "event records" vs. "simple hits." I'll go with most of your theory, although I question that "Achy Breaky Heart" had a complex or novel structure; it was just a two- chord wonder, catchier than a fly fisherman's armamentarium, but with a highly-satirizable title and - ultimately - artist (mullet and all, including a country name in a crossover world. Point of reflection: how come northerners seldom if ever have double micknames for first names, i.e., "Billy Ray," "Bobby Joe," "Billy Bob," "Joe Bob," etc.?). Who knows why certain phrases, people, songs, etc., catch on and inspire satires? They just do. (If I did know, I'd be writing the next one right now!) Country Paul (now less than a week behind - how long can this last?!?) -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 20:50:43 EDT From: Bob Rashkow Subject: Re: "Susan" "Susan" by the Buckinghams, like "Too Much Talk" by Paul Revere and the Raiders and many other late 6Ts oldies, is a victim of oldies- station editing. Anything that sounds period-piece, such as the hysterical crescendo of noise that provides such a intriguing counterpoint to Dennis Tufano's confessions of love in "Susan", or the psychedelic-flower-sunshine-optimism of "Now's our chance to change the world, change the world with love, with loovvvvveeee..." in "Too Much Talk", long ago was rendered obsolete and dispensable by stations eager to slice everything to the barest in order to run as many commercials as they could get away with. Don't be surprised-- next to go might be the phasing at the end of "The Letter", the persistent car horns in "Expressway To Your Heart", the effects in "Green Tambourine", Arthur Brown's "Fire"--oh, for God's sake. They even took some music in Janis Ian's "At 17" (1975) and re-edited that for some silly reason. And let's not forget Louis Armstrong's original recording (1967? '68?) of "What A Wonderful World", brought out practically from Sixties Cemetery after "Good Morning, Vietnam" was released. All of a sudden there's this Kenny G style horn in the middle interval that wasn't there before, spoiling the entire effect of the song at least IMHO. Musical segments that could only enhance these recordings at the time of their release, rendered perfectly harmless (as well as disposable) and thereby offending less listeners (supposedly) and turning records like "Susan" into just pleasant little pop songs about love. One gets the idea--dated as the Buckinghams' basic sound may be--that anyone under the age of say 35 wouldn't be able to tell the difference between "Susan" as played on WLS in January '68 and "Susan" as butchered by (the late) WJMK-FM in January 2000. Only WE know the difference and that's why we're here! Bobster -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:00:40 +0200 From: Frank J Subject: Re: "Morning Girl" / Tupper Saussy Skip, totally agree with you. Tupper really is a genius. Maybe you can ask him about the singles that appeared in the mid 70s under the Neon Philharmonic name. I'm not sure what Tuppers involvement was. And I wouldn't say it's Don Gant singing on them. Or his voice has changed significantly over the years. The engineer though is still his brother Ron Gant. Can find only one of the two singles I have at the moment. It was released on Hickory Records in 1975 but has the London Records logo above (maybe they picked it up nationally??). Producer was David Kastle. A-side "Long Distance Love" is an enjoyable though lot more commercial song then Tuppers oeuvre in the 60s. It's written by Ray Williams. The b-side "Makin' Out The Best I Can" is written by Tupper Saussy. More about the fascinating character Tupper Saussy at http://www.tuppersaussy.com/ Frank J. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:36:25 +0100 From: Richard Havers Subject: Re: Luther Vandross / Superstar Bob Rashkow wrote: > Luther Vandross, while not always someone I would die to listen to, > did a remake of "Superstar" (Nichols and Williams?? Leon Russell??) > by The Carpenters around 1984 that I believe is one of the most > stunning remakes ever. It's as if the song was MEANT to be an R&B > tune, and it was always one of my favorites by Karen and Richard > too! Bob, I'm with you on both counts! I loved the Carpenters version when it first came out, when it was very uncool to admit to liking them (is it still that way?). There's also the 1971 Spring version of Superstar, co-produced and with vocals arranged by Brian Wilson. Anyone know which version was recorded first? Richard -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:10:03 +0100 From: Andrew Hickey Subject: Re: "Superstar" Richard Havers wrote: > I loved the Carpenters version when it first came out, when it was > very uncool to admit to liking them (is it still that way?). > There's also the 1971 Spring version of Superstar, co-produced and > with vocals arranged by Brian Wilson. Anyone know which version was > recorded first? I remember reading an interview with the person who arranged the backing track for that (IIRC Rick Henn of the Survivors, but I could be wrong there) and him saying he'd been given a copy of the Carpenters' version to copy in his arrangement. -- http://dumbangel.keenspace.com A webcomic about Smile returns as soon as the phone company stop messing me about and connect me. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18 Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:02:36 -0400 From: Phil X Milstein Subject: Re: Burdon in Boston Bill Mulvy wrote: > Did Eric Burdon do "Sky Pilot"? He did indeed. Nice version, too. --Phil M. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:22:34 +0200 From: Eddy Subject: Re: "Superstar" Richard Havers: > I loved the Carpenters version when it first came out, when it was > very uncool to admit to liking them (is it still that way?). > There's also the 1971 Spring version of Superstar, co-produced and > with vocals arranged by Brian Wilson. Anyone know which version was > recorded first? As far as I can tell the Spring album wasn't released until July 1972, over a year later than the Carpenters album feat. Superstar. Maybe not the final word on a recording date, but at least an indication. Eddy -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 13:40:17 +0100 From: Richard Havers Subject: Re: "Superstar" Andrew Hickey wrote: > I remember reading an interview with the person who arranged the > backing track for that (IIRC Rick Henn of the Survivors, but I could > be wrong there) and him saying he'd been given a copy of the > Carpenters' version to copy in his arrangement. Thanks Andrew, and Eddy too. I would have guessed the Carpenters if pushed. The lyrics are just so perfect. I always figured that it somehow inspired Bread's Guitar Man. How many songs are there about musicians? Richard -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 05:51:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Stanley Hartman Subject: Re: "Superstar" Eddy: > As far as I can tell the Spring album wasn't released until July > 1972, over a year later than the Carpenters album feat. Superstar. > Maybe not the final word on a recording date, but at least an > indication. The Carpenters was released first. It was co-written by Leon Russell, who actually played piano on the Pet Sounds sessions. Stan -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 22 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 10:04:57 -0400 From: Rat Pfink Subject: Re: That Thing They Did David Coyle wrote: > The Candy Butchers really didn't get anywhere and eventually split. Actually Mike Viola is still using the Candy Butchers name. He released "Hang On Mike" under the group moniker last year. RP -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:19:27 +0100 From: Dave Heasman Subject: Re: "Superstar" Richard Havers: > Thanks Andrew, and Eddy too. I would have guessed the Carpenters if > pushed. The lyrics are just so perfect. I'm sure you know it was originally sung by Bonnie Bramlett, and the lyrics were changed for Karen C from "sleep with you again" to "be with you again". Dave, long ago & oh so far away in London. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:50:30 -0500 From: Bill Mulvy Subject: "Too Much Talk" Bob Rashkow: > "Susan" by the Buckinghams, like "Too Much Talk" by Paul Revere and > the Raiders and many other late 6Ts oldies, is a victim of oldies- > station editing. While I agree with most of what you said, I have to differ regarding "Too Much Talk". The version you quote from was an album version, which differs substantially from the single version which was played on the radio. They both have their place but I don't believe the version you quoted was ever indeed shortened. It was just a long different version, from the original 45 rpm version, which has a middle part that is different (and missing) from the "long version". -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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