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Spectropop - Digest Number 1591



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               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!
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There are 25 messages in this issue.


Topics in this digest:

      1. '70s Reissue Series / Nina Van Pallandt / Bill Cosby's Singing / Peppermint Trolley Co / The Debs / The Candymen and Northern Soul
           From: Mark 
      2. Re: Northern Soul & Beach Music
           From: Steve Harvey 
      3. A Big Deal over Two Deals
           From: Mark 
      4. Petula Clark in French and German
           From: Mac Joseph 
      5. Re: Epic Splendor
           From: Joe Nelson 
      6. N.Y. studio musicians/ / Anne Murray/ Kerri Downs/ Shel Talmy
           From: Artie Wayne 
      7. Re: The Who Sell Out
           From: Joe Nelson 
      8. Re: recordin' in America ... not
           From: Mike McKay 
      9. Re: Bert Berns' British productions
           From: Mick Patrick 
     10. Re: two Deals
           From: Steve Jarrell 
     11. Re: Petula Clark in French and German
           From: Tom K 
     12. re: Beach music
           From: Steve Prezak 
     13. Re: Petula Clark in French and German (not to mention Italian and Spanish)
           From: Mick Patrick 
     14. Ten Years After
           From: Al Kooper 
     15. Robert John
           From: Al Kooper 
     16. Norther Soul (not)
           From: Billy G. Spradlin 
     17. Re: Beach Music
           From: Austin Roberts 
     18. Re: Beach Music
           From: Steve Jarrell 
     19. Re: Beachin'
           From: Austin Roberts 
     20. Re: Sonny Curtis
           From: Austin Roberts 
     21. Re: Beatles recordings abroad
           From: Eddy Smit 
     22. Re: D. Hess
           From: Austin Roberts 
     23. Re: Spelling lesson
           From: Austin Roberts 
     24. Re: grasping Northern Soul
           From: David Bell 
     25. Epic Splendor = Beach Music?
           From: Brent Cash 


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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 03:33:26 GMT From: Mark Subject: '70s Reissue Series / Nina Van Pallandt / Bill Cosby's Singing / Peppermint Trolley Co / The Debs / The Candymen and Northern Soul Hey Guys! Been awhile since I posted to due to my on-again, off-again health problems and occasional stormy weather, but here goes with the catch-up: Phil--another two-fer in the Sire Vintage Years series was their Impressions anthology. This one was especially interesting as it not only touched down on the Impressions' best ABC output (no Curtom songs), but it also covered the best of Jerry Butler from both Vee- Jay and Mercury, and threw in "Superfly" and "Freddy's Dead" from Curtis as well. Not many Impressions comps can boast all that! Nina Van Pallandt--She also had a hilarious part in a Taxi episode, the one where Reverend Jim, of all people, escorts Elaine to a high society affair for an art gallery. She played a socialite who comes on to the scruffy hippie. Bill Cosby--A lot was said about the "Silver Throat" LP, but Warner Brothers actually issued a follow-up album of his singing entitled "Hooray for the Salvation Army Band". A friend of mine has this and I got to hear Cosby's horrendous rendition of "I Can't Get No Satisfaction"...how did Rhino miss out on that one for the Golden Throats comp? Re the Peppermint Trolley Co.: are the Faragher brothers in this group the same guys who later recorded for ABC and Polydor? They had a hit in 1978 with a great song called "Stay the Night". I should also add that the Peppermint Trolley Company made a cameo appearance on Mannix in 1968. Mantanhatten--The Debs had at least two other singles for Mercury. I have one ("Sloopy's Gonna Hang On" b/w "Under a Street Light") and know of another one that the Northern soul folk like ("Goodbye Boy"... I've seen it on one Northern want list that I've received). Re the Candymen: Is it the same Dewey Martin that was in Buffalo Springfield? (I know it's not the same Dewey Martin that was in bad sci-fi movies of the '50s! ;) Finally, with regards to Northern soul: it's already been established that 'Northern' has nothing to do with the geographical origins of the records in the States but rather its popularity in the North of England. Allow me to confuse you even more--a lot of Northern soul isn't even soul! They've spun records by the likes of Paul Anka, Joey Heatherton, Jackie DeShannon, the Four Seasons, Charlie Gracie, and countless other pop charters...even records by the likes of Melinda Marx (Groucho's daughter) and disgraced football star Lance Rentzell! As Cat Mother and the All Night Newsboys once asked, "Can You Dance to It?"... Best, Mark -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 19:27:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Harvey Subject: Re: Northern Soul & Beach Music Andy wrote: > Myrtle Beach, SC is still a "HUGE" beach music spot. They > live and breathe this stuff. That explains why it was the setting for the film "Shag". (English readers may stop smirking now!) -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 03:41:36 GMT From: Mark Subject: A Big Deal over Two Deals Hello again! A while back on another Yahoo list, we were discussing a Northern soul/beach music-type record entitled "I Still Love You" by Harry Deal and the Galaxies. I was wondering if Harry was any relation to another beach music performer, the late, great Bill Deal. Anyone know? Austin, can you answer this one? Best, Mark -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 04:55:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Mac Joseph Subject: Petula Clark in French and German Got a question for anyone that can help. I listen to the 60's on 6 on XM satellite radio. I noticed that they play quite a bit of Petula Cark songs in both German and French. By any chance does anybody know if any of her compilations in French or German are available, and if so, what label or where they can be ordered from? Thanks much in advance! Mac Joseph -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:26:47 -0400 From: Joe Nelson Subject: Re: Epic Splendor Martin Roberts: > Regarding Epic Splendor, my picture sleeved promo :-) only lists the > A-Side "It Could Be So Wonderful" as arranged Trade Martin. "She's > High..." credits the arranger as John Boylan, who along with James > Foley produced both sides. Try pulling the record before you post old rips, Joe. My bad. Bad, BAD, Joe.... Fascinating sleeve. Pictures of all the members' faces, and you can't make out one of them. Check out the upper left hand corner for the fifth face. Clever. Joe Nelson -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:37:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Artie Wayne Subject: N.Y. studio musicians/ / Anne Murray/ Kerri Downs/ Shel Talmy How ya'll doin'? Well, I'm gonna "Country Paul" it...or play catch up with some of the posts and inquiries. to Niels... Don Thomas was a friend of mine, an excellent guitar player and songwriter ["This Door Swings both Ways" [Thomas/Levitt] by Hermans' Hermits]. I started using him on some of my sessions when his sister Jeannie Thomas [who sang background on some of my productions, including "Midnight Mary"] suggested it. Russ Savakus was one of the first bass players I used when I started out [he played bass on "Midnight Mary"]. I knew he worked with a lot of folk artists and could always count on him to play the right thing. Bob Bushnell would be the guy I'd turn to for a great RnB or Rock feel. Before I knew what the bass did, I'd come up with some lame figure that Bob would correct and "Funkify". to Tony... Thanks for telling me about the Kerri Downs record of "4,003,221 tears from now"[Raleigh/ Wayne] Could you send me an MP3 of it? to Austin... I couldn't agree with you more, Anne Murray is one of the nicest people I've met in the buisness. I've known her since "Snowbird" when I was running the professional dept. at Warner Bros. music. One of the first songs I placed with Anne was "Walk Right Back" [Curtis] which earned her a "Grammy". and lastly, to everyone who contacted me about a way to get a hold of my old friend, Shel Talmy...thanks again. regards, Artie Wayne http://artiewayne.com -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:09:07 -0400 From: Joe Nelson Subject: Re: The Who Sell Out Al Kooper: > I played on Rael from The Who Sell Out...... Bob Rashkow: > Al, that is such a great tune. In fact the entire album is one of > my favorite late 6Ts LPs ever. Does anybody EVER spin Rael anymore? After all these years, I'm still not quite sure what "Rael" was about. I always figured the word was a shortened form of Israel, but then I read somewhere that Townshend's reference to "redchins" was short for Red Chinese. Great album, but quite off base for the group. Four (count 'em) Townshend lead vocals, and out of the six tracks Daltrey DOES sing lead on two ("Armenia, City In The Sky" and "Tattoo") are noticeably sped up. One common complaint about the disc that I've never objected to was the way the Radio London parody concept breaks down halfway through side two. Often cited as proof the group could never see anything through, I saw it as an indication of the fact that the station just ceased to exist in real life. Sad. Joe Nelson (lost interest in the Who after this album, FWIW) -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 14:11:35 EDT From: Mike McKay Subject: Re: recordin' in America ... not previously: > Lewisohn's book gives you the exact details on where The Beatles recorded. > Off the top of my head, I'd say they never recorded outside of the UK, the > lone exception being the German vocals of Sie Liebt Dich & Komm gibt mir > deine Hand, which were taped in France. I believe parts of "Can't Buy Me Love" and/or "You Can't Do That" were also recorded in France. Then of course, there's the Tony Sheridan tracks, which were recorded in Germany. Even if you discount them, they did yield two true *Beatles* tracks, "Ain't She Sweet" and "Cry for a Shadow." Mike -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 19:19:04 +0100 From: Mick Patrick Subject: Re: Bert Berns' British productions Neils Chr Junker-Poulsen wrote: > It really was a shame about that CD of Bert Berns' British singles. > We could do without the Them tracks. Everybody knows them anyway, > and I got the Lulu ones, and Moses K as well. I know about Redcaps > and The Orchids, and I know about tracks with P J Proby, The > Movement and Dave Berry as well ... Dulwich calling Denmark! I was unaware Bert Berns had ever produced P J Proby, the Movement or David Berry. You obviously know something I don't. Enquiring minds neeeeeeeeeeeeed to know. Do tell. Hey la, Mick -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:27:53 -0500 From: Steve Jarrell Subject: Re: two Deals Mark wrote: > A while back on another Yahoo list, we were discussing a Northern > soul/beach music-type record entitled "I Still Love You" by Harry > Deal and the Galaxies. > I was wondering if Harry was any relation to another beach music > performer, the late, great Bill Deal. Anyone know? Austin, can you > answer this one? No, Harry Deal was not related to Bill Deal. Harry, I think is from Carolina and Bill Deal was from Portsmouth, VA but lived most of his life in Virginia Beach. There is a guy in Philly that claims to be the Bill Deal that recorded those great beach classics, but, of course, he is a phoney! Thanks, Steve Jarrell -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 18:47:15 -0000 From: Tom K Subject: Re: Petula Clark in French and German Mac Joseph asked: > Got a question for anyone that can help. I listen to the 60's on > 6 on XM satellite radio. I noticed that they play quite a bit of > Petula Cark songs in both German and French. By any chance does > anybody know if any of her compilations in French or German are > available, and if so, what label or where they can be ordered from? > Thanks much in advance! Hi there. Well, there is plenty of French Petula out there, through Sanctuary Europe/Vogue/BMG. The best place to start is probably Kaleidoscope, the double CD released on Sanctuary in 2002 (I think), which features a nice overview of her four decades of French hits. See http://www.petulaclark.net for more info and further releases. Sadly, the German situation is a little more bleak. Kaleidoscop - Ihre Groessten Hits, the equivalent to the above-mentioned compilation, was supposedly released in September 2003, but seems almost impossible to find now, if it was released at all (can't say I ever saw a copy!) Feel free to correct me, though. I can't think of any other CD releases of her German material, although the odd track is included on the excellent 1000 Nadelstice series of Brits and Americans singing in German on Bear Family records. Italian stuff seems even harder to come by. There was meant to be a similar 2-disc compilation released of Italian material late last year or early this, but it seems to have disappeared from the radar. Anyone know anything about these releases? Hope that helps a little ... Tom K -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 15:05:24 -0400 From: Steve Prezak Subject: re: Beach music Beach music continues to thrive in both Carolinas. And not necessarily along the coast. Its main purpose is to spur couples on to do a fairly straightforward dance called the "shag" -- a term having nothing to do with its British meaning, I should point out. Two old SC friends of mine started a label (Ripete Records) back in the '80s just to license and compile popular Beach tunes. It's still going great guns, apparently. A fair amount of '50s and '60s bands whose music has been appropriated as "beach" have even gone the length of totally setting up shop in the Carolinas to ride the wave, so to speak. To give you an idea of the style and "vibe" of Beach music, these tunes seem to be its standards: Chairmen Of The Board: Give Me Just A Little More Time The Tams: Be Young, Be Foolish, Be Happy Brenton Wood: Gimme Little Sign Billy Ward & The Dominose: Sixty Minute Man Temptations: My Girl Lamont Dozier: Cool Me Out O'Kaysions: I'm A Girl Watcher The Drifters: Under The Boardwalk ... you get the idea. Steven Prazak Atlanta, GA -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:40:20 +0100 From: Mick Patrick Subject: Re: Petula Clark in French and German (not to mention Italian and Spanish) Mac Joseph: > Got a question for anyone that can help. I listen to the 60's > on 6 on XM satellite radio. I noticed that they play quite a > bit of Petula Cark songs in both German and French. By any > chance does anybody know if any of her compilations in French > or German are available, and if so, what label or where they > can be ordered from? Thanks much in advance! A couple of years ago I collaborated with renowned Pet Clark expert Richard Harries on a great double CD of French language recordings, "En Vogue: Beat En Francais", released on UK Sequel/ Castle CMDDD 214. For French Pet, I'd say it was hard to beat. Well, I would, wouldn't I? To view the complete tracklist, visit: http://www.footlight.com/product.cfm?product_id=4416 And a review by Bill Reed can be found at the S'pop Recommends section: http://www.spectropop.com/recommends/index2002.htm#petula For the more adventurous, over in France the Anthology label have available the fantastic "Anthologie" CD series, encompassing (almost) every French language track recorded by Petula between 1958 and 1976. Find more details on all NINE volumes by visiting http://tinyurl.com/5tkag and searching for "Petula Clark Anthologie". ALL of Pet's German language recordings, along with ALL of those she recorded in Italian and Spanish, can be found on "The International Collection", a 4 CD box set on Bear Family. Find track details here: http://tinyurl.com/4hlgm Mind you, as a whole, Pet's German waxings are less appealing than her French. (Many of them are German originals - I think I need say no more!) I dare say a good single disc is available. Oh dear, now I have Nadelstiche! Hey la, Mick Patrick -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 16:08:44 EDT From: Al Kooper Subject: Ten Years After Previously: > I just bought a copy of Ten Years After's 1967 debut and > the album includes a track credited to "Kooper": "I Can't > Keep From Crying, Sometimes." Just curious if our Al Kooper > wrote it and if he's ever heard it. Having not climbed into a tunnel and shut both doors until 1990 I would have to say that I am well aware of that. On the Blues Project's Live At Central Park (1973) album as I am introducing the song ( by the BP) I talk about the fact that TYA covered it. "Paid for my car last year" I snapped. Instantly, a rejoinder from late bassist Andy Kulberg - "Al drives a Volkswagen!" - left that on the album! Al Kooper -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 15:55:14 EDT From: Al Kooper Subject: Robert John Previously: > ... It is Robert John's song, "Children". It was the "B" side of > his Nilsson cover, "Don't Leave Me" which reached #108 in October, > 1968. ... "Children" ... the "B" side ... was a John/Gately-written > tune ... Al produced this side only and it would have come while he > was with BS&T ... I do NOT recall "producing" this at all. It sounds like me on keyboards. I was out of BS&T by the summer of'68 BTW. Robert John & I did not get close until late 1968. We were both managed by the same guy at the time. The co-writer Mike Gately became my best friend until his untimely death in 1982. I would not have sanctioned this as a "finished" product, even in 1968 so I doubt I actually produced it no matter WHAT the label says. Al Kooper -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 23:27:48 -0000 From: Billy G. Spradlin Subject: Norther Soul (not) I guess Northern Soul DJ's in the 70's never did the proper "research" and discovered what race or any other information about the performer - if they and thier club liked the 45 they played it, which is a good thing, but confusing to people outside of the UK who are trying to nail down a proper decription of the sound. I have looked at all-nighter playlists and directories of songs and have seen white Pop/MOR performers like Bobby Goldsboro and Gary Lewis on the playlists. Joanie Sommers's great "Dont Pity Me" is more adult pop than true soul - the only thing "Soulful" about it is the backing vocals. Billy http://listen.to/jangleradio -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 00:10:38 EDT From: Austin Roberts Subject: Re: Beach Music Previously: > Beach music continues to thrive in both Carolinas. And not necessarily > along the coast. Its main purpose is to spur couples on to do a fairly > straightforward dance called the "shag" -- I grew up in Newport News ,Va. where I played `Beach Music' while in High School and College; I was fortunate to play in Bill Deal and the Rhondells off and on during that time. Va. Beach was and still is (though not as much as in the 60's), a Beach Music town. We lost Bill Deal recently to a heart attack. Bill was one of the most popular beach music of all time. For the first time in my life I have songs (2) that I wrote, on the Beach Charts and it makes me proud. I'm in a vocal group with Clifford Curry, Steve Jarrell and Johnny Cobb and it's a lot of fun. One of the two songs I talked about is our first Beach release. To folks, especially in the Carolinas, Beach Music is a way of life. They are the kind of fans that country music artists used to have; LOYAL! It's a terrific kind of music that still has it's niche in several areas of the country, and I'm glad I grew up with it as well as country, blues, rock and pop (I consider Beach Music as pop as far as most of it's hits go. Sorry to go on about it, but it's part of my musical roots and I can't help but still love it. Thanks for bearing with me, Austin Roberts PS. Incidently, many of the same musicians that played and sang this music in the 60's, are still playing it as well as making a living doing so, which brings me back to Loyalty; loyal fans. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 17:46:24 -0500 From: Steve Jarrell Subject: Re: Beach Music I would like to add to what you wrote Steve. You mentioned Ripete Records, which is a great label by the way, lots of beach music here. Also, Surfside Records has some great compilations out. There are several other beach music labels. New and old "beach" bands are constantly putting out product. There are beach music shows on the radio and on the internet, try Willie C's Beach Music Cafe. Also, an annual beach music awards ceremony in North Myrtle Beach in November. Believe it or not, if you go to Myrtle Beach proper, I doubt that you will hear beach music. However, go about 10 miles up the coast to Ocean Blvd. in North Myrtle Beach and you'll find all that you desire. Beach clubs, such as Fat Harolds, Ducks,"H's" and the Spanish Galleon will be waiting for ya! Shag on, Steve Jarrell -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 00:16:23 EDT From: Austin Roberts Subject: Re: Beachin' Steve Jarrell wrote: > No, Harry Deal was not related to Bill Deal. Harry, I think is from > Carolina and Bill Deal was from Portsmouth, VA but lived most > of his life in Virginia Beach. There is a guy in Philly that claims to > be the Bill Deal that recorded those great beach classics, but, of > course, he is a phoney! Steve Jarrell knows more about Beach Music than anyone I know. He's absolutely right in his answers to your questions. Steve still plays in a great Beach band here in Nashville, known as the Sons Of The Beach -- great group! Austin R. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 00:44:23 EDT From: Austin Roberts Subject: Re: Sonny Curtis Artie Wayne wrote: > I couldn't agree with you more, Anne Murray is one of the nicest > people I've met in the buisness. I've known her since "Snowbird" when > I was running the professional dept. at Warner Bros. music. One of the > first songs I placed with Anne was "Walk Right Back" [Curtis] which > earned her a "Grammy" Hi Artie, It's great that you pitched Walk Right Back to Anne. Sonny Curtis is not only a great friend and co-writer (and, of course, a member of the Crickets), but also the writer of many great songs (I Fought The Law, Mary Tyler Moore theme, and countless other familiar songs). Artie, ain't it a small world, especially for those of us still alive and still in this business since the '60s. What's great about Spectropop is the vast amout of knowledge that its members possess. They know more, in some ways, than those of us that made and still try to make music that people will like and feel close too. Ain't it cool, Austin Roberts -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 07:45:22 +0200 From: Eddy Smit Subject: Re: Beatles recordings abroad Mike McKay wrote: > I believe parts of "Can't Buy Me Love" and/or "You Can't Do That" were > also recorded in France. I pulled out my Lewisohn to make sure this time. The session took place on January 29, 1964 at the EMI Studios in Paris, where the following was recorded: * Komm, Gib Mir Deine Hand -- 11 takes, German vocals only * Sie Liebt Dich -- 14 takes, German vocals + new rhythm track * Can't Buy Me Love -- 4 takes and the song was actually finished right there and then! A second session booked for January 31 was cancelled. Eddy -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 22 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 01:44:16 EDT From: Austin Roberts Subject: Re: D. Hess Tony Baylis wrote: > I have a US red vinyl promo of "4,003,221" by Kerri Downs (Epic > JZSP 76387), arranged by Ray Stevens. The flip, "Don't Cross > Over (To My Side Of The Street)," is by another artist, Linda > Brannon, and was written by D. Hess and C. Monte. Both sides > shoulda been hits! Is D. Hess the same guy that wrote one of Elvis' hits? If so, I met him in NYC in the late '60s. He was a real different kind of guy. Austin R. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 01:48:22 EDT From: Austin Roberts Subject: Re: Spelling lesson Al Kooper wrote: > When one works with Bill Szymczyk (somebody buy this guy a vowel!), > as I have in the past, one is taught by the master himself that it's S, zy, > mc, zy, k. The memory trick is the mc surrounded by zy(s). Al, you're so strict. Let's all call him Bill. Austin "Scottish Spelling Champ" Roberts P.S. Sweet Home Alabama is one of my favorite records. Thanks for making it. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 04:10:09 EDT From: David Bell Subject: Re: grasping Northern Soul I've never properly understood the Northern Soul scene, except that it seems to be a 100mph dance scene. The first time I saw anyone dancing in the Northern way I thought immediately of whirling dervishes. The record that's getting many plays up North, I've been told, is Connie Francis' "It's Gonna Take Me Some Time," the B-side to Vacation. As much as I love Connie, I never thought she'd be considered Northern Soul. I remain confused ... which pretty much describes my mind 100% of the time these days. David -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 25 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 11:06:26 -0000 From: Brent Cash Subject: Epic Splendor = Beach Music? Two current threads makes me think that the Epic Splendor's "A Little Rain Must Fall" would totally work as Beach Music. Try playing it next to "Be Young, Be Foolish, Be Happy", "With This Ring" (Platters), or "Give Me Just A Little More Time" -- it fits like a glove. However, the B-side "Cowboys And Indians" might not "cut the mustard" in South Carolina ... Best to all, Brent Cash -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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