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Spectropop - Digest Number 1433

               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: 60s Girly Sounds A-go-go! Saturday 17th Aril Brighton
           From: Chris King 
      2. Frank's bottom
           From: Chris Schneider 
      3. Re: Artists who do covers in concert instead of their own songs
           From: James Botticelli 
      4. Re: "Happy Together"
           From: Karen Andrew 
      5. Bobby Vee & Jan Berry  Photo
           From: Bob Celli 
      6. Re: Joe Saraceno
           From: Mac Joseph 
      7. Sha Na Na
           From: Karen Andrew 
      8. Re: Frank's bottom
           From: Paul Bryant 
      9. Re: commercially speaking / Happy Together
           From: Mark A. Johnston 
     10. Re: Ringo records
           From: Artie Wayne 
     11. Re: Artists who do covers in concert instead of their own songs
           From: Al Kooper 
     12. Re: Artists who do covers in concert instead of their own songs
           From: David Ponak 
     13. Dual 45s
           From: Joe Nelson 
     14. Howard Kaylan autobiography?
           From: Dan Hughes 
     15. Paris Sisters new Cd on Eric
           From: Clark Besch 
     16. RIP, actress Carrie Snodgress
           From: Country Paul 
     17. Re: Edison Lighthouse & Wrecking Crew
           From: Leslie Fradkin 
     18. Re: Latest fanzine available!
           From: Jeff Lemlich 
     19. FGG; Chartbusters
           From: Country Paul 
     20. Artists doing covers; LA Weekly article
           From: Country Paul 
     21. Artists who do covers in concert instead of their own songs
           From: Alan (Albabe) Gordon 
     22. The Liverpools - Beatle Covers
           From: Paul Urbahns 
     23. Re: The Portraits
           From: Gary Myers 
     24. Comfortable Chair now on musica; Chordettes; Paul Simon; "So Fine"
           From: Country Paul 
     25. Re: The Paul Simon Songbook CD
           From: KB 

Message: 1 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 07:13:25 +0100 From: Chris King Subject: Re: 60s Girly Sounds A-go-go! Saturday 17th Aril Brighton Dear South Brit-based Spectropoppers - Da Doo Ron Ron - the one & only 60s girl group club - return for our monthly sashay through the femme-centric side of the 60s on Saturday APRIL 17th @ the Sussex Arts Club, 07 , Ship St, Brighton, BN1. Doors 9pm to 2am. Admission:-5 if names are reserved by e-mail:- / 6 on the door on the night. Alternatively, you can phone reservations via Tel:-01273-778020/727371. Established in October 1998 (in North London), Da Doo Ron Ron is a 60s orientated club night with a unique slant. In a tribute to original 'girl power', DDRR DJs Chris 'Da Doo' King & Simon Bridger (Brighton Northern Soul All-dayers) only spin female-fronted tracks from the swingin' sixties. You will never hear a male lead vocal at DDRR! The club's musical menu is a femme-centric celebration of 60s girl groups such as The Ronettes, Marvelettes, Shangri-Las, Supremes, Chiffons, Crystals, Angels etc, sassy soul sisters like Aretha, Dusty Springfield, Maxine Brown, Brenda Holloway and playful popstrels in the vein of Petula Clark, Lesley Gore and Helen Shapiro. For further info. please check the Da Doo web-site:- "Da Doo Ron Ron - A 'femme-centric' selection of back-combed harmonizing". The Guardian - Number 1 Clubs 'Pick Of The Week' November 2003 Many thanks indeed for your indulgence, Kindest regards, Chris Da Doo -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:26:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Schneider Subject: Frank's bottom Dave Heasman on Sinatra singing "Downtown": > a cry of "mop mop" was popular among the jump blues fraternity in > the late '40s, where Sinatra lived. It's all before my time -- honest! -- but I got to know the term "mop" through the Duke Ellington/Sid Kuller song "Bli-Blip," which dates from around 1941. There, it's used as a monosyllabic exclamation of astonishment. Sort-a like "PLOTZ!!" (Or am I using "plotz" correctly? You'll have to advise me on this, Rashkovsky.) In any case, that's how it sounds on my recording, which comes from the Ella Fitzgerald/Duke Ellington Songbook. "My Love To You I Bring On Account-A You Can Sing ..." Chris -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:44:28 -0400 From: James Botticelli Subject: Re: Artists who do covers in concert instead of their own songs Steve Harvey wrote: > You're not alone on this issue. Miami Steve Van Zandt did a similar > bit about seeing Solomon Burke and how he hated seeing acts ignore > their own material for other artist's stuff. Point taken, but Van Zandt is on a hefty payroll in two arenas. Is Burke? I don't THINK so... > I think it was "Cry To Me" that Steve wanted to hear for the encore, > but got "Proud Mary" instead! What was he thinking? Who? Steve? or Solomon? Because in these cases its always a risk for the hitherto unknown suddenly catapulted into the media spotlight as an icon, a true representative of a 'real' past hitherto unexplored, to boldly venture where no shoe has trod. What would a Solomon Burke, probably not swimming in the excesses of wealth, do given 'alf a chance? He'd do the safest most advisable thing to do. He'd dance with the gal that brung him. He'd offer the 30ish crowd, who would be most responsive to catching a taste of 'real' history, an array of personal favorites and self-crafted chestnuts to assure posterity in every mindset. And it would be the right thing to do for him. JB -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:34:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Andrew Subject: Re: "Happy Together" Re: Great article - had me laughing but also got me to thinking. These commercial types don't give a hoot about all of the original people involved in a popular song so Flo and Eddy are insulted and worried about their reputation. Afraid fans will think they sold out. I can't blame them for thinking this! I love what he quoted Alan Gordon as saying: "What it evolved into," he added, his voice trailing off. "I get religious. It's been such a gift from God. It's hard to put into words what that song means to me. I know I wrote it, but it's taken on . . . it's hard to explain. You're driving down the highway and you hear your song coming out of someone's car. The angels heard me praying the day I wrote 'Happy Together.' " Wow! KA -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:10:03 -0000 From: Bob Celli Subject: Bobby Vee & Jan Berry Photo I posted a photo I took of Bobby Vee & Jan Berry at the Ohio State Fairgrounds in Columbus, Ohio I believe in 1991. Jan was in great spirits and looking well at the time. This was a great show which included The Everly Brothers, and Dion, along with Jan & Dean and Bobby. Bob Celli -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 04:37:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Mac Joseph Subject: Re: Joe Saraceno Dear Martin, Thanks for the input about Joe Saraceno. I will definitely check out Gary's website. Sounds like interesting reading. See another gentleman wrote back and stated that Bones Howe had been the engineer on those great records. I had "No Matter What Shape" by the T-Bones, (Liberty Records as I recall, and Bones Howe's name is listed as engineer, but I thought that Joe Saraceno was the producer. Anyhow, thanks again for the info. Take care, Mac Joseph -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:48:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Karen Andrew Subject: Sha Na Na Clark Besch wrote: > Hi, was digging in th vinyl again last night. I realized our > Artie Wayne and Alan Gordon both had ties to Sha Na Na in 1974/5! Is this the same Sha Na Na that had the TV program in the 80s (I think)? If so, what a great show! "Acting" out the songs really made me appreciate some of those doo wop oldies and was also an intro. to the doo wops. But, they also sang other types of pop music and it was a lot of fun. KA -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 01:35:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Bryant Subject: Re: Frank's bottom Simon White on Sinatra's "Downtown": > It goes: > "When you're alone > and life is making you lonely > you can always go > "Eeeughh" > Downtown". > It is hilarious. This is a New Jersey term of approbation and affection, as in "Hey, Frankie, you lookin', eeeughh, great!" pb -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9 Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:35:32 -0400 From: Mark A. Johnston Subject: Re: commercially speaking / Happy Together I am a long-time Turtles fan and I think Mark should be happy people even take notice. I am sure it will sell more records in the end, as people want to search out the Turtles version after being reminded on major commercial television. I also think it is funny, as Mark doesn't own the song. I also think artists should be paid and make some money for their works. I hope this influx of cash helps you to be more comfortable or do something you really enjoy for you or your family members. The change of lyrics has not tarnished the song - it is brilliant pop and always will be. I need a new Porsche and I know I would be getting on my publishers to place some more commercials post haste :-) Last time I checked, you couldn't take it with you. MAJ -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:26:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Artie Wayne Subject: Re: Ringo records Clark.......Eddy.......Phil M......How ya' doin'? You might want to add a record I wrote and produced, "You Can't go Far....Unless You're Ringo Starr" by Neil Sheppard. I sold it as a master to Bernie Lawrence who put it out on his brother Steve Lawrences' label, he had with Don Costa. I swore to Bernie it wasn't me singing and even introduced him to Canadian singer Neil Sheppard who was. Then we had a problem..... ......there was a word in the song that sounded like F*#% and for one reason or another, Bernie wanted it changed before they released the record. Unfortunately, Neil was back in Canada...... but since we sounded alike I decided to go into the studio myself and punch in another word. As we were trying to make it work..... the engineer erased three good lines!!! Now I had a choice to make.....kill the engineer or replace the entire vocal [who would notice anyway....since we sounded so much alike?] As I was finishing up the last line of the song, Bernie, Steve Lawrence and Don Costa walked into the studio. It was one of the few times in my life I was at a loss for words. regards, Artie Wayne -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 10:06:49 EDT From: Al Kooper Subject: Re: Artists who do covers in concert instead of their own songs Steve Harvey: > You're not alone on this issue. Miami Steve Van Zandt did a similar > bit about seeing Solomon Burke and how he hated seeing acts ignore > their own material for other artist's stuff. I think it was "Cry To > Me" that Steve wanted to hear for the encore, but got "Proud Mary" > instead! What was he thinking? Solomon was thinking he was doing HIS version of PM which was released about 20 or so years ago. Al "Keeps On Turnin'" Kooper -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:07:00 -0400 From: David Ponak Subject: Re: Artists who do covers in concert instead of their own songs The same thing happened to me a couple of years ago when I went to one of those doo-wop shows at the Univeral Amphitheater here in Los Angeles. The Tokens performed, and they were simply amazing vocally; however, they did very few Tokens songs. I felt like I was watching a well honed wedding band! (To their credit, they did do a short set of songs they wrote or produced, so we ended up hearing nice versions of a couple of Happenings songs.) Conversely, I saw Gene Pitney at the same venue about 7 years ago, and his set list was a hardcore fan's dream. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:26:06 -0400 From: Joe Nelson Subject: Dual 45s Clark Besch: > After that, in 1975, they released "Shanghied" (KA 604) co-written > by Artie Wayne. It's a small Sha Na Na world, after all! Funny > that in 75, they were still putting "Dual 45" on their labels. How > many still had mono players in 75? Always wondered what "Dual 45" meant, and I'm still not sure. May I beg for clarification? Joe Nelson -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:48:13 -0500 From: Dan Hughes Subject: Howard Kaylan autobiography? Yo Alan--my wife heard on an oldies station this morning that Howard Kaylan is coming out with his autobiography. Wonder if you'd heard anything about this, or know how to get a copy? Okay, a SIGNED copy?? Thanks, ---Dan ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit to sign up today! -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 00:38:18 -0000 From: Clark Besch Subject: Paris Sisters new Cd on Eric Hi, was talking to Bill Buster today at Eric and he was telling me about his upcoming Cds. For anyone interested in the Paris Sisters, Eric will be releasing their one Reprise Lp, "Sing Everything Under the Sun", in stereo from the master tapes with a fabulous booklet and of course, Tom Daly doing the sound on this Jack Nitzsche and Jimmy Bowen production. Both it and Vol 3 of his Teen Time series (including more first time domestically released on Cd songs) will be released in May. Vol 3 said to include one of my faves, Mark Dinning's "Top 40, News, Weather & Sports"! Check out Vol 1 & 2 at Clark -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 16:29:57 -0400 From: Country Paul Subject: RIP, actress Carrie Snodgress Excerpted from the AP, and touching on the lives of people of interest to this group: Actress Carrie Snodgress, whose 40-year career included an Oscar nomination for "Diary of a Mad Housewife" and memorable roles in "Pale Rider" and "Wild Things," died of heart failure at age 57 on April 1 in Los Angeles...."Her son, Zeke, by rock star Neil Young, was at her side.... "Despite critical acclaim for her role in "Housewife," Snodgress turned her back on Hollywood in 1971 to live with boyfriend Neil Young on his northern California ranch and care for their son, who was born with cerebral palsy. "She spent more than seven years with Young before she left and returned to Los Angeles, later suing him for child support. "In 1979, her ex-boyfriend, songwriter Jack Nitzsche, was charged with threatening to kill her after he barged into her home and beat her with a handgun. He pleaded guilty to threatening her and was fined and placed on three years' probation. "Picking up her career after a long absence wasn't easy, Snodgress later said. She was initially tapped to star opposite Sylvester Stallone in "Rocky" but lost the role over a salary dispute." Country Paul -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 15:11:43 -0600 From: Leslie Fradkin Subject: Re: Edison Lighthouse & Wrecking Crew Eddy: > It is my pleasure to announce that Les Fradkin will be releasing a > NEW CD by Edison Lighthouse called "Perfect World". It will feature > both new material and re-do's of "Beach Baby", "Love Grows (where > my Rosemary goes)", "My Baby Loves Lovin'", "Funny How Love Can Be", > and "Smile A Little Smile For Me." > > The new single (recorded in 1996 in California) will be "God Bless > California" which, although an old melody, has been re-done with > new sunny California words and incredible Beach Boys harmonies. It > sounds like "Help Me Rhonda " meets "California Girls." It features > the LAST ever session of Phil Spector's "Wrecking Crew": > The musicians on the session were: > Drums: Hal Blaine > Bass: Carol Kaye > Piano & Organ: Don Randi > Rickenbacker 12-String: Les Fradkin > Rhythm Guitars: Mitch Holder, Eddie Bertrand & Les Fradkin > Mellotron & Synths: Les Fradkin > Engineered by Larry Levine and Les Fradkin > Produced by Les Fradkin > Lead Vocals by Les Fradkin > This looks like it's gonna be a smash !! Dear Eddy, Don Randi verified yesterday to me by phone, that "God Bless California" was, indeed, the LAST session the "Wrecking Crew" recorded together as an ensemble. The CD will be released at the end of April. Love continues to grow, Les -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 20:38:13 -0000 From: Jeff Lemlich Subject: Re: Latest fanzine available! Howard wrote: > Just to let anyone know who may be interested, Soul Up North #43 > is now available. This issue includes a great article from > 'Spectropopper' Jeff Lemlich on the Sandpipers along with Howard > Priestly's lowdown on GC Cameron -- plus there are loads and loads > of vinyl reviews ranging from 60's -- Northern soul, Chicago Soul, > R&B etc.... I should mention this is not the "Guantanamera" Sandpipers, but the group of 13 & 14-year-olds that appeared on Tru-Glo-Town. They were Florida's answer to the Shangri-Las, and the reason I was asking those Trude Heller questions earlier :) Jeff Lemlich -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:17:25 -0400 From: Country Paul Subject: FGG; Chartbusters Tom Adams, I finally got to check out the Bob Feldman interviews at Great stuff; thank you. All the pictures are very cool, too! Mick Patrick: > The Pin-Ups "Lookin' For Boys" (Stork 1, 1964). Written by > Martine, Feldman, Goldstein and Gottehrer. Arranged by Leroy Glover. > A Feldman/Goldstein/Gottehrer Production. F/G/G's revenge on the > Angels: Great fun. The background voices sound like they're about 12 or 13! But as Bob Feldman said, it was a 3000-mile roadtrip with jailbait. And the Santells version of "So Fine" is interesting - a bit like the Fiestas on speed! :-) Clark Besch: > A great example of how strange these songs got in imitating the > Beatles was the kinda hillbilly "She's the One" by the Chartbusters. > It went into the top 40, and I really like it, but it's funny to > think people thought this to be the Beatles. I don't think people thought they were the Beatles. Remember that, at that time, every second band in America was trying to "get" the new sound; for a while, in some circles (quite a few, actually), there was nothing more dated than early 60's pop. The best of the groups trying on the new sound came up with their own versions of it. I happened to see the Chartbusters live when "She's The One" was hitting. No confusion with the Beatles; rather, they were a really good rock band in their own right - from the Philadelphia area, I believe - with high energy, a driving beat, and (under the Beatle influence) longer hair (but still greased into a pompadour, at least on the bass player). Country Paul -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:34:50 -0400 From: Country Paul Subject: Artists doing covers; LA Weekly article Mike McKay on artists who do covers in concert instead of their own songs: > I think the answer to your question is that the acts you've gone to > see have gone from artists to entertainers. Their audiences are > composed mainly of people for whom music is a casual diversion rather > than a passion, and audience members such as you and I are few and > far between. Agreed - it's forgiveable in a second-level hotel lounge; but for a gathering of afficianados, like the UGHA meeting/concert I previously mentioned where the Edsels only did two of their own songs - it's pretty much unforgiveable. And yes, they *knew* the make-up of that audience. The Passions - who shared the bill - did about half covers, but they did all their own songs that this knowledgeable audience would remember as well. Bryan, Re: L.A. Weekly article about session musicians in L.A. > I'm gonna need an hour just to read it and all the related articles. Thanks for the link! Country Paul -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:06:58 -0700 From: Alan (Albabe) Gordon Subject: Artists who do covers in concert instead of their own songs Hall and Oates almost always do a 60's or 70's cover tune every time they tour. Their version of "Me and Mrs. Jones" is amazing. ~albabe -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 22 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:23:24 EDT From: Paul Urbahns Subject: The Liverpools - Beatle Covers Mark Hill wrote: > This was just in our local paper "40 Years Ago" column: March 13, > 1964: The Buckeye Mart discount department store, offered the album, > "Beatle Mania" for 87 cents. It had Beatles hits performed by The > Liverpools. Mark, Believe it or not there were two albums of songs issued under the name "The Liverpools" both on the Wyncote label. You can get a general idea of this label by looking at the discography at website. Looking at the cover I think I have that album, but not handy. W/SW-9001 - Beatle Mania! in the U.S.A. - Liverpools [1964] She Loves You/Be My Girl/I Want to Hold Your Hand/Hey Quiet Down There/Did You Ever Get My Letter//I Saw Here Standing There/Never Mind/Please Please Me/Chuck's Monster/Whenever I'm Feelin Low W/SW-9061 - The Hit Sounds From England - Liverpools [1964] House Of The Rising Sun/Be My Girl/Don't Throw Your Love Away/He/Quiet Down There/Did You Ever Get My Letter/I Like It/Never Mind/She's Not There/ Chuck's Monster/Whenever I'm Feelin Low You will notice the original songs are repeated on both albums and these were used as filler. Those songs were:Be My Girl; Hey Quiet Down There; Did You Ever Get My Letter; Never Mind; Chuck's Monster; Whenever I'm Feeling Low. Now to answer a question from someone on the list as to why these albums were issued. They were "promotionally priced" albums. They were usually sold directly to stores in an assortment of titles. Probably the store paid 50 cents for new albums and they could sell them for anything they wanted. They would advertise these albums in the newspaper ads to get people into the store so they will buy something else. These are not industry "cutouts" which are discontinued albums. The cut out market drove these type albums out of business. One interesting sidelight on the Wyncote label. It was a division of Cameo Parkway and reissued many of the Cameo Parkway artists and albums in a low priced format. If the original album was mono on Cameo Parkway then it was rechanneled stereo on Wyncote. But If it was an original Wyncote album it was usually in real stereo. So Cameo Parkway was issuing mono Lps on their full priced label and stereo and mono releases on its dollar label. I have never understood that. Paul Urbahns -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:13:20 -0700 From: Gary Myers Subject: Re: The Portraits Martin, thanks very much for your continued interest in the Portraits. :-) Here's a little more Jerry Tawney info that might be of interest: Jerry was originally from West Virginia where another singer friend of his was Turley Richards. When the Portraits did our Shafer Beer commercial (4/68), Richards was in NYC, Jerry contacted him, and he came down to the studio. I located Richards (who is now blind) a few years ago for some discography questions. gem -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:41:46 -0400 From: Country Paul Subject: Comfortable Chair now on musica; Chordettes; Paul Simon; "So Fine" I took Bernie Schwartz's "Follow Me" down from musica, and have played a gorgeous earlier effort, The Comfortable Chair's "Some Soon, Some Day," Ode ZS-105, 1968. This gorgeous B-side of their 45 was also on their lone album. It's produced by Kreiger and Densmore of the Doors - but I promise you this is very un-Doors- like. I also posted a track to Harmony High - the Chordettes "A Broken Vow" (rec. 1960, rel. 1961), a beautiful and sweet song which was a very small hit toward the end of their career on Cadence, and an all-time favorite/guilty pleasure of mine. It was originally written and recorded by the Bush Boys (no relation to the US political family) on Capitol in 1960. It can be found at: Speaking of musica, The Caper Brothers is quite interesting - but it cut out abruptly at 1:44. Is it my listening device, or did it do that when played to musica? Al Kooper, thank you for the background on the Paul Simon Songbook. Your notes convinced me to put buying it on my to-do list for tomrorow. Mick Patrick: > The Santells "So Fine" (Courier 115, 1964). Written by Jim Gribble > (it says here). Gribble also gets writer credit on my original Fiestas pressing on Old Town. Country Paul -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 25 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:03:56 -0700 From: KB Subject: Re: The Paul Simon Songbook CD "The Paul Simon Songbook" was also (re)released in the mid-70s as part of a Columbia Records 4 or 5 vinyl LP set. The box set included all of Simon's solo albums up to that point. I purchased the set (used) for a friend of mine years ago. The set must have been part of some Columbia Record Club deal or a way to capitalize on Simon's surge in popularity after the huge success of "Still Crazy After All These Years" Does anyone else have any details on this box set? I've always assumed it was an American release, but it might have come out of the UK. By the way, "The Paul Simon Songbook" is great. It's a perfect way to hear classic Simon songs in their true, unadorned state(s) - KB -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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