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Spectropop - Digest Number 1229

               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Ed & Sam Chalpin, His Father the Pop Singer
           From: Michael Greenberg 
      2. Iveys
           From: Eddy 
      3. Sally Go Round The Roses
           From: John Lang 
      4. Re: Girls
           From: Paul Bryant 
      5. Re: Grapefruit; Iveys
           From: Eddy 
      6. Most Inept Hit
           From: Paul Bryant 
      7. Re: Sally Go 'Round the Roses
           From: Dan Hughes 
      8. Re: Answer Songs
           From: Paul Balser 
      9. Re: Melinda Marx
           From: Fred Clemens 
     10. Re: Words and melodies
           From: Paul Bryant 
     11. Re: Changed titles
           From: Fred Clemens 
     12. Re: Avanti
           From: Watson Macblue 
     13. Re: Walter Scott Murder Book
           From: John Fox 
     14. Re: Grapefruit
           From: Mike McKay 
     15. Re: Sally Go 'Round The Roses
           From: Albin Lindström 
     16. Re: Melinda Marx (and Bill)
           From: Tom Taber 
     17. Tim Gilbert / Austin Roberts to Musica
           From: Clark Besch 
     18. Re: Rundgren / Nyro
           From: Lou 
     19. Re: Worst 45 pressings
           From: Richard Williams 
     20. Re:  Medicine Man & the real Napoleon XIV
           From: John Fox 
     21. Re: Tuesday Weld Ya Ya
           From: Phil Milstein 
     22. Re: Answer Songs / Gerri Granger @ Musica
           From: Mick Patrick 
     23. Brian and his imitators
           From: Watson Macblue 
     24. Re: masochist lyrics AND Vance-Pockriss query
           From: Hugo M 
     25. Re: Bobby Vee "Beautiful People"
           From: Austin Roberts 

Message: 1 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:54:57 -0000 From: Michael Greenberg Subject: Re: Ed & Sam Chalpin, His Father the Pop Singer Excerpt from: > Some guy named Mick Patrick has asked me to provide a bit of > background an old LP, 'My Father The Pop Singer' by Sam > Chalpin, for which I have the dubious honor of being the > recording engineer. Dubious for sure, and not entirely accurate, > since many of the tracks we used for this travesty were not > engineered by me. But yes, I must confess, I was there, I got > the credit, and I have lived to tell the tale. > > I wrote about this album once before, to Spectropop founder Jamie > Le Page, may he rest in echo. Another contact, Michael Greenberg, > told me he actually owned a copy . . . and liked it! To each his > own, I guess. So, out of pity for his plight, I sent him one of > my last few copies of that misconceived and mistakenly released > monstrosity. Because? Because he wanted to make sure he would > always have a back-up. God have mercy! Thanks for your wonderful and informative article, Mike. I love the way you write! Yes, I admit it, I did ask you for another copy of this record - an "upgrade" of sorts - and I asked for the story behind it. Well, "be careful what you wish for", as they say! I never imagined this was someone really recording his own dad. It's a nutty record that I dug because of its incongruity, but man, what an ugly (yet very well told!) story of exploitation! Yuck! (and thanks!!) Michael -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:16:43 +0100 From: Eddy Subject: Iveys Austin Roberts Re: Ivey's; Grapefruit > Eddie, Thank you my friend. I still think about how good > "Maybe Tomorrow" was. Indeed it was ! Does anybody have the scoop on what happened to the Iveys LP ? Cancelled in the UK, no US issue or anywhere else for that matter, except an extremely limited amount of copies of Germany and Italy. Eddy -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3 Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 03:44:49 -0800 From: John Lang Subject: Sally Go Round The Roses Carl asks: > Ok, was this the pressing or just bad mastering? "Sally Go Round > the Roses" by the Jaynetts. Tuff Records was right! How could a > song that sounded this bad on 45 ever make the top 10? You have to remember that the kind of audio equipment people were listening to in those days was very primitive by modern standards. So peoples' expectations regarding the technical brilliance of the recorded product were much less acute than they are today. Not only that but most of the listening public for pop music in those days had little or no training in classical music, so the kind of offkey singing that you might find in the Shirelles for example (which in my humble opinion contributes greatly to their charm!) just didn't really register back then as being 'bad'. There are a lot of people today, even highly developed and commercially successful popular singers, who can't appreciate this. They are totally brainwashed into thinking that technical perfection is the be-all and end-all in recorded music. Give me the Jaynetts anyday over any of them. They don't understand the difference between Patti LaBelle and Whitney Houston or Mariah Carey. BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! John Lang -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:29:27 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Bryant Subject: Re: Girls Phil Hall wrote: > Tracey Dey is one of many others I've always > wondered about. Is there a subgroup within > Spectropop that specializes in the 60s girl groups? Good idea, and a sub-sub group which specialises in fantasies about The Shangri-Las. pb -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:24:40 +0100 From: Eddy Subject: Re: Grapefruit; Iveys Orion: > Aren't there at least two Grapefruit LPs? Yup, there's Around Grapefruit (1968) and Deep Water (1969). To make the story complete... there was also a 1971 "reunion" single Sha Sha/Universal party on Deram, but although George Alexander was still there, the rest of the "band" existed only of Vanda & Young. Then there was also a single Get ready for Love/Can I get to know you (Youngblood) which was released as by Paintbox. It was also produced by Vanda & Young and since it was written by George Alexander, it is assumed it was from the same Grapefruit "reunion". -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:38:13 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Bryant Subject: Most Inept Hit Carl asks: > Ok, was this the pressing or just bad mastering? > "Sally Go Round the Roses" by the Jaynetts. > Tuff Records was right! How could a song that > sounded this bad on 45 ever make the top 10? Okay - what's your choice of the most badly performed song ever to become a hit? No contest surely, it's got to be Louie Louie by the Kingsmen - the drummer loses the beat at one point. However, my pick for "worst ever guitar solo in a hit record" is "Lightnin' Strikes" by Lou Christie - a favourite of mine - but just listen again to the solo - you talk about One Note Sambas - here's the one note guitar solo. So this is also the winner of the Most Minimalist Solo of all time too. pb -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:38:49 -0600 From: Dan Hughes Subject: Re: Sally Go 'Round the Roses Re: our recent discussion of Sally Go 'Round the Roses, Rashkovsky suggested I go to the source, Artie Butler. I did, and here's his story: "Hi Dan, Since I made the record, I have heard so many strange tales about it. Everything from secret messages from Saturn in the lyric, ghosts etc. There was nothing wrong with the equipment in the studio. I was going for a very different sound. I recorded in mono one instrument at a time. I played all of the instruments except the guitars. Each time I added another layer, I went to another tape machine. I kept going from one machine to the other and changed the EQ and the reverb (echo .. as we called it back then in the Jurassic recording period) on each layer to give it the strange sound. There was not much of a song to begin with, so I felt I had to create something that would make it it's own thing. I had this sound in my mind before I started. I remember the guy who asked me to do it for him hated it and screamed that I wasted his money. He said I would never work again and all of that kind of crap that everyone new has to hear at least once. I told him I felt he was wrong, and that he should listen to it for a few days. I tried to tell him that it was a different kind of sounding record, and that the unique quality was what made it work. He thought I was a moron. I brought the record to Leiber & Stoller. They went crazy over it and offered to buy it from him and give him back all of his money. When I told him that, he had different thoughts about it. Soon after the record became a hit, I started getting calls to work for other people. The guy never paid me any money for making the record, but he did give me an arrangers credit. In retrospect, I did get paid. I have been working ever since. He asked me to complete the "Sally" album for him, but I told him he would have to pay me for the record which was already a hit, before I would work for him again. He decided not to give me any money and actually laughed in my face. I have not heard about anything that he has done after that record. He actually had people calling me to work for him using a different name. I guess everyone who starts out in the business gets screwed once or twice in the beginning of their career. In all of my years of being in the music business, that was the only time I took a hit and never got paid. I have been asked to make another updated version of it a few times. However I never tried. I did not want to piss off the ghosts on Saturn. I hope this explains the record to you. If you have any question, please feel free to contact me. Thanks. Regards, Artie Butler " He sent this immediately afterwards: "Hi Dan, I left out the fact that I recorded it at 7 1/2 IPS on 2 AMPEX 350 tape machines. Each time I added another layer, the sound kept getting more distant sounding due to the tape hiss. That is why I changed the EQ and the reverb on each layer. It let the new layer "speak" over the previous layer. The studio was called Broadway Recording Studios. It was located in the Ed Sullivan Theater building. The same building that David Letterman does his show in. The address was 1697 Broadway, located between 53rd and 54th street. How could I forget that stuff. To be real honest when I go to New York and drive or walk past the building, I do get a little sentimental. How could I not? Regards, Artie Butler" Fantastic story! So hows about some of you major league guys write Artie and invite him to join our group? He would be a fantastic addition, and I think he'd have a great time..... ---Dan, (spiffy home page) -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:27:30 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: Paul Balser Subject: Re: Answer Songs Mark: > Add to the original list of answer songs: "Got a Job" > by the Miracles (their first record, answer to--what else > --the Silhouettes' "Get a Job"). Also add "I Found A Job". by theHeartbeats -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:08:59 -0000 From: Fred Clemens Subject: Re: Melinda Marx > There are 45s by Bill Marx on Vee Jay too and something tells me > that he was a son of a Marx Brother. I'll have a look in my books. Bill Marx is the son of Harpo. Bill recorded a piano/Jazz oriented album for VJ Records in 1963, with Harpo featured on the cover introducing Bill as "MY SON, THE FOLK SWINGER". Fred Clemens -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 04:08:10 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Bryant Subject: Re: Words and melodies John Sellards wrote: > Of the two examples recently mentioned (Dylan & > Napoleon XIV), those are both examples where the > impact clearly comes from the performance and not > from the melodic worth of the music." Quite true, and we might also mention at this point the thin but persistent trickle of talking records which have been hits over the years, from Hank Williams' Luke the Drifter monologues, via "Ringo" by Lorne Greene (a No 1! the only talking No 1?) and I think "If" by Telly Savalas (eugh), and all the way through to the amazing revival of talking records called rap. From Luke the Drifter to Eminem! John continues: > The rock and roll era shifted the importance from > the composition to the ultimate performance, so after > years of hits that only really use about five notes > for melody ("Sea Cruise" comes to mind) something like > "Subterranean Homesick Blues" could be a popular record, > when a tune with such limited melody would probably not > have done much twenty years previous." I think what's missing here is the influence of the blues, a music which never claimed much in the way of melodic invention. Once blues forms were re-introduced in early rock & roll, you got "Hound Dog" and "Long Tall Sally" etc etc and you got kids buying records (performances, as John states) for entirely different reasons than their parents did. pb -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 13:32:23 -0000 From: Fred Clemens Subject: Re: Changed titles Another instance of changed titles occured when Roy Orbison wrote "Pretty Woman". The original version was written by Orbison, Joe Melson, and Ray Rush, and was recorded by Curtis Byrd on Candix Records in 1962. Keeping the same title, Orbison took the title for a second go around, this time assisted by Bill Dees. This is the one Orbison recorded himself in 1964, which would later be re-titled as "Oh, Pretty Woman". Here's a link to the lyrics of the Byrd recorded version: Note that there are very few similarities between both songs. The music is entirely different. Fred Clemens -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 05:39:14 -0800 (PST) From: Watson Macblue Subject: Re: Avanti Dan Hughes writes: > What I SHOULD have asked is "Where did Studebaker come up with > the name Avanti?" Is it an obscure Indian tribe, or a European > quadraped, or a made-up word? It's Italian for "get a move on" or "forwards!" (the exclamation is vital). You see it very occasionally as a tempo marking - I remember Benjamin Britten using it a couple of times. Watson -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 08:58:29 EST From: John Fox Subject: Re: Walter Scott Murder Book > John Fox--could you please tell me the title and author of the > book about the Walter Scott murder? Mark, The book is called "The Cheaters" by Scottie Priesmeyer, and it's on Amazon. While I'm at it, another fascinating book available on Amazon is "Before He Was Fab" by Jim Kirkpatrick, about George Harrison's 1963 2-week visit to the U. S. John -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:19:47 EST From: Mike McKay Subject: Re: Grapefruit > The Grapefruit, IMHO, were really pretty good. I liked the song > "Elevator". I have their LP and the few 45s released here in > the US. > Aren't there at least two Grapefruit LPs? In the States, anyway, there was a second Grapefruit album, "Deep Water," on RCA. I have it but haven't listened since the early 70s. My memory from one spin and other comments I've read is that it's undistinguished "heavy" rock with none of the melodic qualities of the first LP. Missing in all this Grapefruit discussion so far has been any mention of the song "Lullaby" from the first LP. It's a very conscious (and quite successful) attempt to mimic a "Strawberry Fields Forever"-era John Lennon effort -- complete with mellotron, Beatly harmonies and very Ringo-ish drums. And most of all, a dead- on Lennonesque vocal. I know that folks' views will vary on the validity of producing something that's not just influenced by another artist, but rather an out-and-out imitation. Me, I think "Lullaby" is so well- and obviously lovingly done that it succeeds, and I find it very enjoyable. At any rate, it was well-done enough to fool me. The track was given to me many years ago by a friend as a cassette dub of a bootleg he owned, with an accompanying story that it had been dug out of Lennon's trash at some indeterminate date. I went for a time believing this story, till I happened to pull the Grapefruit album out of my collection to give it a spin -- something I obviously hadn't done in some time. Imagine my embarrassment at learning that I had in fact owned this alleged Great Lost Beatles track all along! I've also heard it said that "Lullaby" fooled the compilers of that radio series done several years ago that featured a lot of unreleased Lennon tracks (the name of it is escaping me just now). Can anyone confirm that this track was indeed played on this series and passed off as genuine Lennon? Mike -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 14:32:41 -0000 From: Albin Lindström Subject: Re: Sally Go 'Round The Roses Hi, This beautiful song was also recorded in a slightly better sounding version by Queen Anne's Lace (Anne and William B. Phillips) on their self titled LP from 1969. It's one of my favourite soft pop records, with lovely versions of songs by the Beatles, Simon and Garfunkel and Burt Bacharach. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:49:41 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Taber Subject: Re: Melinda Marx (and Bill) Simon White wrote: > There are 45s by Bill Marx on Vee Jay too and something tells me > that he was a son of a Marx Brother. I'll have a look in my books. I believe he is the adopted son of Harpo, and an accomplished pianist. I strongly recommend the book "Harpo Speaks" to anyone with an interest in the entertainment industry from 1900-1960. It's just flat out my favorite book of all time. I believe Harpo was about 6 years older than he claims to be in his biography, however. Tom Taber P.S. My fellow Americans - Rite Aid stores have $5.99 headphones for 99 cents this week, and if you go through them like I do (falling asleep with them on), that's quite a bargain. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:56:32 -0000 From: Clark Besch Subject: Tim Gilbert / Austin Roberts to Musica Hi, Just posted "One Word" by Austin Roberts and "Early October" by Tim Gilbert to Musica. Will probably pull Gilbert's soon to make more space. Take care, Clark -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 10:56:58 -0500 From: Lou Subject: Re: Rundgren / Nyro > Now, here's my toss on Brian Wilson's influence: How about > Todd Rundgren? His very melodic songs, his great harmonies, > his arrangements, with separate "movements". I don't know if > Todd has ever acknowledged a debt to Brian, but I feel Brian's > stamp on Todd's writing. Anyone else see this? > I've been a fan of both Todd & Laura Nyro for over 30 years, and > only noticed 6 months ago how much Todd was influenced by her - > down to chord changes. > Which is why Todd once sang, "Laura, I caught your show in L.A." > in "Baby's Let's Swing". Now I love to shuffle so surrey on down. I'm guessing that Laura wasn't the only female influence on Todd. Over the years I've noticed how much Todd sounded like he was inspired by Carole King during the "Something / Anything" recording. Whenever there is an article on Todd the influences that get listed are The Beatles, Yardbirds, other British Invasion groups along with a few blues players but anyone who listens to Todd can hear the Brill Building touch as well. By the way Dave, if you like Baby Let's Swing (the medley version from the "Runt" lp) you should hear the complete version of the song. It really is a delightful song (or should I say a love letter to Laura). Lou -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 16:54:31 +0000 From: Richard Williams Subject: Re: Worst 45 pressings Billy G. Spradlin: > I think the worst sounding but one of the greatest early rock > recordings is Gary U.S. Bonds'"Quarter To Three" - I have it on > original 45, on a vinyl LP and Rhino CD and they all sound like > it was recorded with the microphone stuck in a closet or under > a blanket! Surely "Quarter to Three" was intended to sound "like it was recorded with the microphone stuck in a closet or under a blanket". Wasn't that the magic? Richard Williams -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:05:31 EST From: John Fox Subject: Re: Medicine Man & the real Napoleon XIV > ...and it was COME ACROSS. > ...funny, but I thought it was "Come-a Close"! This is one of the more controversial "mondegreens". I always thought it was "Common Cold" (makes perfect sense for a medicine man, no?). And on the subject of "They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha-Ha!", the most amazing thing about this song (other than its short but meteoric chart run, aided by its ban from the airways) is that it was written and performed by Jerry Samuels, the same guy who wrote the early 1964 middle-of-the-road crossover hit for Sammy Davis, Jr., "The Shelter of Your Arms". John Fox -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 11:46:00 +0000 From: Phil Milstein Subject: Re: Tuesday Weld Ya Ya lobsterman730 wrote: > Hi Y'all! FIRST POSTING! Got a question... I have been troubled > for almost two decades on this matter... Exactly, how RARE is > the TUESDAY WELD 45, "Are You The Boy" on Plaza Records? Can > anyone share some light on the value and the history of this > recording? Tuesday Weld was credited as the artist on the soundtrack theme "Lolita Ya Ya," but the wordless vocal could well(d) have been sung by anybody. Does anyone know if it really was her on that, or if not what the story behind it was? --Phil M. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 22 Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:00:24 -0000 From: Mick Patrick Subject: Re: Answer Songs / Gerri Granger @ Musica Brian Davy: > If I add Gerri Granger's "Don't Want No Letters" to the list > as the answer to "Return to Sender", it gives me the > opportunity to beg that someone with the wherewithal posts > her Elvis cover "Just Tell Him Jane Said Hello" to Musica. Steady, Davy, you don't *have* to beg. Some of us need little persuading filling musica with fab black chicks. Not that I have anything against all these mimsy white boys. Well, not much. :-) As it's not out on CD - well, not to my knowledge - Gerri Granger's "Just Tell Him Jane Said Hello" (Big Top 3150, 1963) is now playing @ musica. Gerri deserves a whole CD of her own. Fat chance, I guess. "Stick Close", anyone? Hey la, Mick Patrick -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 23 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 09:11:12 -0800 (PST) From: Watson Macblue Subject: Brian and his imitators Susan writes: >The best of it, IMHO, is that which he did with Andy Paley. >But there are many who will tell you that Andy is the best >BW mimic they've ever heard, and these sessions prove it. Ah - someone has mentioned the Elephant In The Room. The evidence and the claims do not match up. In all seriousness, beware of mines here, Susan; I've been threatened - physically - for suggesting this. And it has been going on for a lot longer than people like to think. If engineer Steve Desper is to be believed, all that wonderful Brianism on the Spring album was the work of David Sandler; Desper insisted in an interview that Brian's contribution to the album had been "minimal". Something to do with brand recognition. If we really want a classical composer to compare Brian with, let me suggest the English song composer Ivor Gurney, whose early, great promise was destroyed by being gassed in the First World War, followed by a complete nervous breakdown. Poor Gurney spent his last years in an asylum. The music he wrote there is vastly, pitifully inferior to what he wrote before the War, and in the trenches before being injured. Gurney fans - and there are many - will fight to the death over his early works, but no-one has ever seriously suggested that the post-1917 stuff is of anything other than academic interest, with the very occasional, sad glimmer of the past. I think we BW fans should take the hint. Certainly, Gurney was never subjected to the weird personality cult that surrounds Brian, or an Ivor-Is-Back campaign while he was "communicating" with the police through a radio in his teeth. Watson -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 24 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:22:26 -0000 From: Hugo M Subject: Re: masochist lyrics AND Vance-Pockriss query Sorry to revive an old thread, but I just stumbled across a record that is EXACTLY the kind of thing Julio was asking about when he first posted. One record jumped out at me during a recent cataloguing binge -- "Jackie/Four Shy Girls" by The Girlfriends (Pioneer 71833). Verse three, line three: "Go on and hurt me, Jackie, I don't care what you do..." Songwriting and production credits to Vance & Pockriss, which leads me to my next question. I've been seeing those names a LOT lately, they seem to be there every time I turn around. lounge/Bacharach/bossa stuff, girl-group, novelty songs (like the weird baby-talk/hipster lingo parody of "The Chick"...) They seem to have done a little bit of everything, and I've never seen them mentioned here -- anybody have good info or anecdotes to share about these two careerists? Cheers -- Hugo M. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 25 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 12:39:06 EST From: Austin Roberts Subject: Re: Bobby Vee "Beautiful People" Clark, Although you probably already know, Kenny wrote Next Plane To London and Behind Closed Doors. AR -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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