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Spectropop - Digest Number 1220

               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!

There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Brian/Bach
           From: Dave Mirich 
      2. The Wilson Project
           From: Watson Macblue 
      3. Re: Worst 45 pressing
           From: Bill Brown 
      4. Re: Macarthur Park/How Sweet It Is movie/Love Generation
           From: Clark Besch 
      5. Ian & The Zodiacs (was re: Good Morning Little Schoolgirl)
           From: David Coyle 
      6. Speaking of the Knickerbockers and the Righteous Bros...
           From: David Coyle 
      7. Speaking Of Apple Records...
           From: David Coyle 
      8. Searchers' song title
           From: Ian Chapman 
      9. Re: Philles DVD
           From: Mikey 
     10. Re: Brian Wilson influence / Wilco?
           From: Peter Kearns 
     11. Re: Compatible Stereo
           From: Clark Besch 
     12. Re: MacArthur Park
           From: steveo 
     13. Re: The Transformed Shatner
           From: Rodney Rawlings 
     14. Re: Lambert-Potter productions / Magpie Stump?? / Arkade
           From: Clark Besch 
     15. Re: The Buchanan Bros
           From: Clark Besch 
     16. Re: Poor quality pressings
           From: Bill Brown 
     17. The Balllad Of John And Yoko
           From: James Cassidy 
     18. Re: Bach and Brian
           From: Dave Mirich 
     19. Dick St. John & Dee Dee
           From: Peter Lerner 
     20. Re: Medicine Man
           From: Art Longmire 
     21. Re: Answer Songs
           From: Paul Balser 

Message: 1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 06:31:07 -0700 From: Dave Mirich Subject: Brian/Bach Dave, previously: > Without Bach, would there have been classical music as we > know it? Of course, or very close to it -- it just might have > taken an additional 50 years to get there. Watson responded: > Bach is just about the worst possible choice for this sort of > analogy - or maybe he isn't. Without Bach, classical music would > look *exactly the same* - only without Bach. Bach was an > extremely conservative composer who founded no school and had no - > *no* - followers (including even his own sons, who put as much > musical distance between them and their father as possible). You are an expert Watson, I am just a student. In a book I got as a present last Christmas (which I can't locate right now) the classical composers were ranked by the author. Bach was ranked #1, Mozart #2 and Beethoven #3. This is my only reference of knowledge of classical composers. I also remember taking a good deal of grief from an ex girlfriend who berated me for my enjoyment of the BBs because "Bach had done it all before, and much grander and better" all those years ago. Watson, I was trying to make a point in my post and used Bach as the name of the person I thought was considered the greatest early composer (at least according to a published author on classical music). But did my post otherwise make sense (if the use of Bach were substituted with a composer you approved of), or do you agree that it did not as one lister argued, calling my post the "One Great Man" theory? Dave Mirich -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 05:20:35 -0800 (PST) From: Watson Macblue Subject: The Wilson Project Watson, previously: > ......a time horrifyingly recorded in Usher's diaries and > published as The Wilson Project. Paul Bryant: > I didn't know that, so thanks - can you tell me why > "horrifyingly"? Stephen McParland put together two books from Gary Usher's diaries - "The Wilson Project" and "Brian Wilson - Tape #10." These are now very hard to find, but they're absolutely vital reading for anyone seriously interested in Brian Wilson. What is horrifying - and no other word will do - is the picture that emerges of Brian's relationship with Gene Landy. "Tape #10" includes an astonishing file of documents - legal papers, song sheets and much more - showing just how crazy the whole situation was, with Landy demanding total control of *everything*, by no means confined to his patient's well-being. BUT (yes, there's a "but") there's another side to this that is usually lost in the (entirely justified )anti-Landy campaign. The tapes from the Usher sessions show Brian in a far better musical state than he is now. The vocals are clean and accurate (including the falsetto); the songs themselves have an unmistakably "Brian" sound to them that is now just not there. Something seems to have happened between then and now, starting soon after the Usher sessions, when the sessions for the first released BW solo album began. It's just possible that Usher more or less stood over Brian with a wrench until he sang in tune; the famous California producer who was first asked to salvage the "BW" album included among his grounds for turning the gig down (there were many) "I couldn't conceivably work with anyone crazy or lazy enough to let Brian sing that badly". Compare even the relatively focused singing on (shriek) "Sweet Insanity" with the barking cybernetics of the "California Feeling" remake, and you can hear that Brian has audibly deteriorated throughout the time that he was supposed to be getting "better". Food for thought. Watson -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 07:15:07 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Brown Subject: Re: Worst 45 pressing Steveo wrote: > A 45 that gets my vote for the worst pressing is the Elektra 45 > compatible mono/stereo 1967 release of the Doors "Light My Fire". > It sounded good for the first 25 plays or so, but wore out quickly, > and the grooves were so close together it started to eat up the > needle pretty quickly also becoming white as snow. Most of these > were cheap styrene plastic. There was one record that was mentioned in Billboard as being such a poor pressing that the intro wore out after only three plays. The title was not named, but it was likely either "Switchboard Susan" or "Rest Your Love On Me". -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:56:50 -0000 From: Clark Besch Subject: Re: Macarthur Park/How Sweet It Is movie/Love Generation Paul Bryant: > As for me, ("MacArthur Park" is) actually one of my all time > favourite 60s records, and I was always disappointed that Jimmy > Webb's later stuff never came anywhere near it. Orion responded: > I like this song quite a bit as well as Richard Harris's > rendition of "Didn't We (almost make it)". The title doesn't > have the parenthesis I just thought I would throw them in > since they are a current topic. :) Hi, hope you all had a Happy New Year! In the early 80s, when Lincoln did not have an oldies station that would play "MacArthur Park", I played it on my weekly 60s show. A fellow programmer who liked 60s music called and said "No, you're not REALLY playing this are you?" Hey, I don't know what Webb was trying to say, but I loved the song in '68 and I do in 2004 too! I once played "Norman" by Sue Thompson as a joke and got someone to call saying they loved it! Heck, I like it too, but I figured most people don't. So it's hokey, it's OK. More from the Webb catalog. After I read the "Mac" post, I was listening to a couple of songs from the somewhat obscure 60s movie, "How Sweet It Is" in my car. I really love "Montage" by Love Generation (by Picardy on the soundtrack LP--also a 45 on Dunhill) from the movie. It's writen by Webb and has some very strange lyrics, but the cool idea behind the words "I knew that you knew that I knew that you knew..." was a neat way to get the idea across. You couldn't resist singing that part when you heard it (if you liked it, that is). Lines like "I didn't feel like Batman anymore" or "I hit my funny elbow (?) on the door" or "The pimple on my neck began to hurt" are certainly not "normal" lyrics, yet the song is so cool (like "MacArthur") that you bypass the lyrics in these cases. If you see the movie, the lyrics work better in your mind, also. The song I REALLY like from the soundtrack is the title track. Man, a very powerful production that is a fave fer sure. It's like Spanky & Our Gang with a wall of sound production. I wish it would come out on CD, but at least we have the RCA soundtrack and the stereo is great. The Picardy version is close to the Love Generation version of "Montage", but I prefer the Love Generation on that track. Jimmy Webb wrote many a meaningful deep lyric, but also did some that were just great singalongs! Take care, Clark -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 07:38:54 -0800 (PST) From: David Coyle Subject: Ian & The Zodiacs (was re: Good Morning Little Schoolgirl) The version of "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl" by Ian & The Zodiacs was incredible. It was recorded and released around the same time as the Yardbirds version, and of course, now the Yardbirds version is better known. I was lucky to find the Zodiacs version on a Philips single, and then to find "Introducing Ian & The Zodiacs" on a Philips LP from 1965. It's a really good album, very good Merseybeat. It's a pity they weren't better known...I wasn't even aware that they had released an album in the US. Oddly enough, their version of "The Crying Game" was a hit in Texas in 1964! Then in 1966, they released an album of British Invasion covers on the budget label Wing, which is probably the album most US collectors are familiar with. It's time that someone like Repertoire put out a good Ian & The Zodiacs compilation, considering their phenomenal success in Germany (hence their records originally coming out on the German Philips label). The Star-Club LPs reissued by the label seem to be out of print or at least impossible to find. David -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 08:09:08 -0800 (PST) From: David Coyle Subject: Speaking of the Knickerbockers and the Righteous Bros... Just picked up a copy of "Flip's Groovy Guide To The Groops," 1968 edition, and in the entry for the Righteous Brothers, the Bobby Hatfield/Jimmy Walker version is pictured and profiled. Lots of cool obscure (in general) bands in this book including the Blades Of Grass, the Sunshine Company (both recently reissued groups by Rev-Ola), the Candymen, Grapefruit, the Lewis and Clarke Expedition, etc. Really nice find. David -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 08:22:42 -0800 (PST) From: David Coyle Subject: Speaking Of Apple Records... I just got the new RPM disc "94 Baker St.: The Pop-Psych Era Of Apple Records 1967-69" and it's really good. It includes rare and unreleased tracks by Focal Point, Grapefruit, John Fitch and Associates, Paintbox, Ways and Means, as well as five really nice demos by the Iveys (pre-Badfinger), including the demo of "Maybe Tomorrow." A full-length CD of Iveys demos is promised in the liner notes. The only problem is that the Misunderstood (an American band that recorded in London, and was apparently licensed through Apple) is listed on the sleeve and referenced in the notes, but the three tracks listed were left off, apparently for licensing reasons. They were previously released on the Cherry Red CD "Before The Dream Faded." Other than that, a really nice CD about an underrepresented aspect of the Beatles careers as publishers, producers and label owners. David (PS "I've Been There Once Before" by the Iveys is worth the price by itself) -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:15:07 -0000 From: Ian Chapman Subject: Searchers' song title John wrote: > Does anyone know why The Searchers' 1965 hit "Goodbye My Love" > was bizarrely retitled "Goodbye My Lover Goodbye" for the American > market? Are there any other examples of song titles being changed > for no apparent reason? John, "Goodbye My Lover Goodbye" was the song's original title, as cut in 1963 by Robert Mosley (who co-authored it) and I believe also by Jimmy Hughes. It was the Searchers' version that was retitled - maybe because the word "lover" wasn't actually sung? Ian -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:34:09 -0500 From: Mikey Subject: Re: Philles DVD Gary Spector wrote: > I actually left a message on my father's answering machine > giving my idea of selling his music not on CDs but on DVDs > with the videos of the performers so that the listener would > not only have the music but the stage show or video to keep > as a part of history. This idea was given to my father shortly > after DVDs started to catch on in the early 90s (I think) but > he has never tried it and neither has anyone else. > > I thought it would have been great if he had released a > Christmas DVD with videos. Yes, it would be just great to have a "Phil Spector Presents" disk with all the footage from Goldstar of Philles sessions, and TV shots of the Philles artists doing their hits. Nothing has ever come out like that. I'll tell you what, it would sell a bundle!! Mikey -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 14:18:26 -0000 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Re: Brian Wilson influence / Wilco? Bill George wrote: > I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Lindsay Buckingham in this > thread. He has said, and it is obvious in his music/production, > that he was greatly influenced by Brian Wilson. Well here's that 'influence' thing again. I see no residual Wilson in any of Buckingham's music. > And as someone else mentioned, many new "alternative" bands owe > Wilson a big debt. Wilco being perhaps the most successful. Also > groups like Fountains of Wayne. 'Fountains Of Wayne'? You've GOTta be kidding!!?? Those two examples owe Brian a debt just by merely presuming they can even compete in the industry. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:03:22 -0000 From: Clark Besch Subject: Re: Compatible Stereo Joe Nelson wrote: > From what I've been told, the Haeco CSG system threw the right > channel ninety degrees out of phase: this resulted in a thirty > percent reduction in the sound pressure from the centered > elements in the mix (which were coming from two sources > electronically, thus making them more prominent in a mono > dubdown). Atlantic put out a few mono singles which used the > CSG system to dub the stereo master down to mono - a handy tool > as eight and sixteen track recording made separate mono and > stereo remixes more difficult to make. Joe, I don't know how ths CSG system worked, but it was cool to get stereo 45s. One interesting example is Free's "All Right Now". The 45 mixed in CSG sounds more powerful than the better stereo sounding Lp version not using CSG. Even cooler in 1970 was the "B" side, "Mouthful of Grass". A very cool mellow instrumental, that using the CSG system, stretched the ending bass note for about 10 seconds! Really cool technique. If you had an oscilloscope built into your stereo to show stereo separation then, you saw that note make a perfect circle, when mono or slight stereo was a straight diagonal line. I was never so intrigued by a circle on a tube, and have never seen that formation since on a stereo record. Clark -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 10:15:37 -0800 (PST) From: steveo Subject: Re: MacArthur Park Thot I'd chime in here and say that MacAurthur Park is a masterpiece. One of my favorites. How do I insert the yahoo smiley with the tongue? lol Steveo -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:02:44 -0000 From: Rodney Rawlings Subject: Re: The Transformed Shatner William Shatner: > "When a cut is played without any context you'll be puzzled by > what I'm doing, but my hope is that you'll know what I'm doing > if you listen to the whole record" (c.1998). Ah! That decides it then. Thanks. I guess to be fair to Mr. Shatner, I would have to listen to the whole album to get the context. But it is hard to imagine what context would make the two cuts I heard sound anything but ludicrous! Also, by my theory, good art should have something to offer on the micro as well as the macro level. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:27:49 -0000 From: Clark Besch Subject: Re: Lambert-Potter productions / Magpie Stump?? / Arkade Glenn, I agree with you about "This Heart" and I agree that "Blood Brothers" was the better 45. I really love both songs. I remember first hearing "This Heart" when Dick Clark had Gene on a guest on Bandstand. Dick also called him Otis' son, so he was also mistaken. I always assumed he was Otis' son and wondered how he fit in with the Reddings who had a hit later on. Glad you cleared that up for me. As far as I know, "This Heart" has never been on Cd which would make it one of few top 30 hits not on Cd. I have a great copy off vinyl if needed by anyone. On the Dunhill one off 45s, Austin Roberts' "Morning of Our Lives" was used as a Bridal Fair commercial in early 70's as we've said, but another song was used here in Omaha too then. I looked for it for years and finally got it a couple years ago. The group was Magpie Stump. Was wondering if Austin had anything to do with this song, as it was on Dunhill at same time as Arkade and it was used on Bridal Fait commercials here too! The song is "The Road Ahead" and it may have been a Lambert-Potter production too. Any ideas?? -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:30:33 -0000 From: Clark Besch Subject: Re: The Buchanan Bros Austin Roberts wrote: > The Buchanan Bros. were actually Cashman and mess and me on lead > vocals. The rest we put toether in the studio. One in particular, > though I can't remember, John Tartaglia and I passed it off as > this really (model like) good looking kid as the lead singer. All > seemed well until the prez. of the label set up a big party in his > back yard to introduce the act to the press label hotshots and some > of Hollywood's pretty people. Everything was going well until the > kid started singing, got thru about a line of the song and puked > all over the mic, bass, and most of the press up front. Needless to > say he went nowhere except home and still hates parties. Another > weird story. Austin, are you saying you sang lead on their songs? If so, you had a different sound on "Medicine Man". I loved "Son of a Lovin' Man" which got a lot of airplay here in Nebraska. Clark -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 12:40:52 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Brown Subject: Re: Poor quality pressings Regarding this statement ... "The records wear out much quicker so you'd have to buy more. What better way to push a record to #1!" ... Radio airplay is just as important, or more so, in placing a record at number 1. If the radio stations receive poor quality styrene disks to play on the radio and they break or wear out, they obviously cannot play them. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:04:04 -0500 From: James Cassidy Subject: The Balllad Of John And Yoko Norman wrote: > "The Ballad of John and Yoko" borrows too much from "Little > Sister", especially the opening... If I'm not mistaken, the guitar riff on "TBOJAY" is a direct lift from "Besame Mucho" as recorded by the Beatles on the Decca audition tape. Jim Cassidy -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 13:09:28 -0700 From: Dave Mirich Subject: Re: Bach and Brian Watson stated: > Without Bach, classical music would look *exactly the same* - > only without Bach. …. His reputation had to be salvaged from > oblivion 75 years after his death, by the young Mendelssohn, > and even then he was looked back on as the paragon of a dead > tradition, not someone to be directly imitated.> Not that I know enough about the subject to really care, but when I got in my car and put on KVOD, a Bach composition was playing. I figured that every citizen on earth knows the name Bach for a reason and so I did a search to see if he is considered to be a great and influential composer (one of the greatest), or a forgotten nobody, an unnecessary piece of flotsam in the history of music. (And I want to repeat that I only ever said that Bach, and Brian, both accelerated the development of their respective musical traditions by 50 years.) I know this is Spectropop, but here I have learned about how classical music sometimes influences pop, (re: Eric Carmen, etc.) …So maybe it does apply somehow… Also, I recognize that as with any issue of importance, experts will disagree (and my search on Greatest Composers was quick) Dave Mirich -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:06:52 -0000 From: Peter Lerner Subject: Dick St. John & Dee Dee Phil Milstein wrote: > It's reassuring to hear that Dick was as nice a guy as he > seemed, although it also makes his untimely death that much > sadder. Do you know if he and Mary Lerner (I believe was her > name), the original Dee Dee, ended their collaboration as > friends or not, or remained in touch after her retirement? Can I say that I would be delighted if Dee Dee turned out to be one of the illustrious Lerner family, but I fear that from other sources I had gathered that her name was Sperling. I did find an album by one Dorothy Lerner once and I'm sorry to say it is not one I would recommend. Peter -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 20 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:25:26 -0000 From: Art Longmire Subject: Re: Medicine Man Bob Rashkow wrote: > So that's Austin Roberts singing the lead on "Medicine Man > (Parts I and II)? How I LOVE that record. I picked up a > near-mint copy of it in 1993 on the Event label at House of > Records in Santa Monica, CA. Was I excited. Junior high > comes back to haunt me again. That should have been a No. 1! > Austin--is the lyric "Come across"? (I always used to think > you were singing "Tomahawk.....cha sha cha sha....Tomahawk... > etc.!!!) Austin sang lead on this? This record is a killer! I first remember hearing it when I was living in San Diego in 1971. Even when I got a copy in the 1980's, I couldn't figure out some of the lyrics, however. I too thought that part of the lyric was "Come across"-but the lyrical mystery is part of what makes me enjoy the record. That would be a good subject for research-songs with lyrics that are nearly impossible to figure out. Another tune out I was listening to at the same time with similarly unfathomable lyrics was "Double Barrell" by Dave and Ansell Collins. I'd like to know who played organ on "Medicine Man". Art Longmire -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 21 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:42:59 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: Paul Balser Subject: Re: Answer Songs Phil: Here are a few more answer songs: I Want You To Be My Boy - I Want You To Be My Girl The Tiger's Wide Awake - The Lion Sleeps Tonight I Found My Baby - There Goes My Baby Stay At Home Sue - Runaround Sue Back To The Hop - At The Hop Can't Do Sixty No More - Sixty Minute Man I Lost My Job - Get A Job I Found A Job - Get A Job It's Me Knocking - Who's That Knocking Guy With The Black Eye - My Boyfriend's Back Go - Stay Image Of A Boy - Image Of A Girl Cholley Oop - Alley Oop Second Helping Of Cherry Pie - Cherry Pie Duchess Of Earl - Duke Of Earl Daddy's Going Away Again - Daddy's Home Goodbye Angel Baby - Angel Baby She Cried - He Cried You Blew Out The Candles - 16 Candles Sherry Stole My XKE - Sherry You Burned The Bridges - Burning Bridges Remember Diana - Diana Stay Away From Bobby - Bobby's Girl As Long As The Rose Is Red - Roses Are Red Tell Tommy I Need Him - Tell Laura I Love Her I Put The Bomp - Who Put The Bomp I Have All Of These If You Want Them Let Me Know Paul -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
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