The Spectropop Group Archives presented by Friends of Spectropop

[Prev by Date] [Next by Date] [Index] [Search]

Spectropop - Digest Number 1211

               SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop!

There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Stereo pressings
           From: Michael Fishberg 
      2. Arkade
           From: Mark T 
      3. Re: The Bayou, DC.
           From: Jeff Lemlich 
      4. Question for Austin
           From: Mark 
      5. Re: The Avantis
           From: Tom 
      6. Re: "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl"
           From: Richard Havers 
      7. Re: Stalker rock
           From: Chris 
      8. Selling Out The Hits
           From: Steve Harvey 
      9. Jan & Lorraine info needed
           From: JJ 
     10. Ron Dante Interveiw <> Great Pic
           From: charlieberg123 
     11. "Wouldn't It Be Nice"
           From: Watson Macblue 
     12. Re: Grass Roots / Hamilton, Joe Frank & Reynolds
           From: Glenn 
     13. Re: If I Were the Carpenters. . . .
           From: Jeff Lemlich 
     14. Re: (Why) Brackets
           From: Stewart Mason 
     15. Re: (Why) Brackets?
           From: Gary Spector 
     16. Re: Kim Fowley
           From: Peter Kearns 
     17. Re: Ron Dante
           From: Laura Pinto 
     18. Latest Lance Monthly
           From: Mike Dugo 
     19. Re: Left Banke
           From: Tom Taber 

Message: 1 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 05:40:12 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Fishberg Subject: Re: Stereo pressings Billy G.Spradlin wrote: > I have read Mercury's pressing plant was ran soooo cheaply that > when the mono mother plates (made to press LP's) wore out they'd > just switch to the stereo mother plate instead of making another > mono mother and press "mono" albums with it. So mono buyers got a > bonus or a LP that wore out very quickly on a cheap mono phonograph. > I have a Walker Bros album on Smash where the first side is mono, > the second side is Stereo! You're right about Mercury being cheapo. I have several LPs that purport to be mono (including most on the Fontana imprint, actually a subsidiary of Dutch Philips in the UK). Examples are: The Reg Guest Syndicate "Undergound" and both Blossom Dearie LPs. Incidentally the Left Banke LPs on Mercury were not true stereo, so it didn't matter anyway! Michael Fishberg -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 2 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:13:42 -0000 From: Mark T Subject: Arkade Just curious as to what you guys chose to record instead of "Don't Pull Your Love." By the sounds of it, it seems like Arkade was an actual group as opposed to a studio group. Austin, how many of those groups that you recorded under were actual groups and how many were just studio bands? -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 3 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:42:25 -0000 From: Jeff Lemlich Subject: Re: The Bayou, DC. Austin Roberts: > Finally, my buddy from Cheverly, Md. reminded me it was the > Telstars that I liked so much at the Bayou. More mid 60s, I > think. Yes, definitely mid-60s. The Telstars recorded "Hold Tight"/ "Keep On Running" on Columbia 44141 in May 1967 -- plus an earlier single, "Love Is A River"/"Sweet Young Angel," on Monumental 517 in 1965. Jeff Lemlich -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:53:56 GMT From: Mark Subject: Question for Austin Hi Austin! I was just wondering - what did you think of Dickey Lee's cover of your hit "Rocky"? I thought it was pretty good. Best, Mark -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 20:44:34 -0000 From: Tom Subject: Re: The Avantis I wonder if they took their name from the legendary Studebaker Avanti. I think it was introduced in '62. It's certainly a cool name for a group. Sounds much better than The Studebakers. LOL. Tom -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 6 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 13:50:43 +0000 From: Richard Havers Subject: Re: "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl" Richard Williams wrote: > "Good Morning Little Schoolgirl" was written by John Lee > Williamson, the first of the two bluesman to be known as > Sonny Boy Williamson (the second was born Rice Miller). > My favourite version is on the Chess album "Muddy Waters > -- Folk Singer". Muddy was 48 years old when he recorded > it in 1963; further comment would be superfluous. Rod > Stewart, by contrast, was barely out of his teens when he > covered it quite effectively as the A-side of his first > solo single, for Decca in (I think) 1964. Richard, totally agree with you about Muddy's version. I would urge anyone who hasn't heard it to seek out Muddy's 'Folk Singer' album. It is stunning. A little bit more history on 'Schoolgirl'. The song that we all think of today as 'Good Morning Little Schoolgirl' was first released as 'Good Morning School Girl'. Recorded at Sonny Boy Williamson’s first recording session for RCA's Bluebird label on May 5th 1937 at the Leland Hotel in Aurora Illinois, accompanied by Big Joe Williams and Robert Lee McCoy on guitars. Later versions have not only been confused about the title, the writer's credit has also been given to the second Sonny Boy Williamson (Rice Miller). The song became staple diet for both Chicago Bluesmen and British Blues bands in the 1950s and 60s. It has even been called “the first rock and roll record”, but then again so have many others (not a call to reopen the debate!). Whatever the case, Good Morning Little School Girl can certainly claim to have been at the birth. In September 1959 Alan Lomax was travelling through the South with a reel-to-reel recorder, much like he did with his Father two decades earlier. Lomax had been directed to Fred McDowell's house in Como, Mississippi, Fred being well known in the area from his playing at weekend fish fries and parties. Lomax recorded 14 tracks with Fred, including 'Good Morning Little Schoolgirl', most considered these seminal recordings to be amongst Fred’s best. This pre-empted McDowell's ‘discovery’ by the ‘folkies’. The song actually made the British charts, although it has not charted in the USA by any artists. The Yardbirds made No.44 in November 1964 and spent a month on the charts. Their version has lyrical similarities to the original but it is in fact melodically different. The writers credit on some Yardbirds records is Demarais, although on others it is credited to Williamson - despite being the melody used on their version credited to Demarais. This was the original line-up of the Yardbirds, featuring Eric Clapton on lead guitar and Keith Relf on vocals. The SBW version became the A-side of 19 year old Rod Stewart’s first ever single for the Decca label in October '64 . After busking in Europe teenager Rod returned to the UK and joined Jimmy Powell and the Five Dimensions. He then moved to London becoming the harp player with John Baldry’s Hoochie Coochie Men, before recording Good Morning Little Schoolgirl as his Decca debut. Richard -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 08:40:23 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Chris Subject: Re: Stalker rock Stewart Mason wrote: > ... "One Way Or Another" (just about the most blatant song about > stalking ever to become a big hit) It's funny that I should be reading this, and Phil M.'s reply, at the same time that my CD of "Red Hot + Blue" was playing the U2 version of "Night and Day." Talk about "Stalker Rock"! Of course, that version always struck me as *deliberately* creepy, as turning the singer into a figure out some '70s nightmare like Abel Ferrara's "Fear City." If you can't be sublime like Astaire in "Gay Divorcee," after all, you might as well be creepy ... Chris -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 8 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:27:47 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Harvey Subject: Selling Out The Hits Mark Frumento wrote: > I always thought "Someday My Prince Will Come" would have > made a great commercial for a one-hour photo operation... > "some day my prints will come..." How about a bank commercial that uses the marginally influencial Brian Wilson's "Time To Get A Loan"! -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 9 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:04:13 -0000 From: JJ Subject: Jan & Lorraine info needed **Can anyone CONFIRM that the girl duo, JAN & LORRAINE, who rel one LP on US ABC, early 69, "GYPSY PEOPLE", were in fact from the US? I´ve read that they toured the States and that they might be from the Detroit area?? Any info, MUCH appreciated! -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 18:26:28 -0000 From: charlieberg123 Subject: Ron Dante Interveiw <> Great Pic > New @ S'pop > THEN & NOW: A RON DANTE RETROSPECTIVE > by Laura Pinto > "Ron Dante is best known as the lead singer for The Archies, > but that's only a single entry in his show-business resume. > Ron was multitasking well before the word made its way into > the vernacular - his career has more facets than a five-carat > diamond..." (Laura Pinto) > For the full story, click here: > Great pic of Ron Dante & Donna Marie performing in the only live Archies appearance I've seen!!!! -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 11 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 11:12:03 -0800 (PST) From: Watson Macblue Subject: "Wouldn't It Be Nice" Paul Bryant writes: > There's a section in the brilliantly researched "I Just Wasn't > Made for these Times: Brian Wilson and the Making of Pet > Sounds" by Charles Granata dealing with this, called "The Song > that Didn't Make It". Brilliantly researched up to a point. Long-term listers here and elsewhere will know that this is a personal bugbear of mine, but I think a serious point lurks here. The Granata book is great - really very good indeed - on the history of the sessions and the complex circumstances surrounding the creation of this wonderful album, but it falls heavily flat on its face once it starts talking about the music itself. Then, the text descends into the worst pseudo-musical babble. Words like "tonalities," "harmonics" and "dynamics" fly around with no conceivable attachment to what they actually mean. At one point, we're told Caroline No is in either C or C sharp, depending on which speed the master is played. It's in neither. The whole musical force of the song rests on its alternation of the major and Lydian forms of *F*, which is all of a fourth higher. The lack of a key signature doesn't automatically mean C: look at the *music*. Similarly, we're told elsewhere that the bass is playing in a different key in God Only Knows, which is, well, bizarrely untrue. The one truly huge musical difference between Brian Wilson and just about everyone else in rock at the time - his penchant for 6/4 chords in what can only be called the High Noon of the Root Triad - is never even touched upon. Chuck Granata never descends to the near-surreal musical gibbering of David Leaf (who once famously, revealingly and meaninglessly described a single chord as having a "fugue-like feel" - and *no- one edited this out*!), but a genuinely musical analysis of Brian Wilson's music would be very valuable. Granata is also the only mainstream writer I know who comes close to admitting the melancholy truth that when we talk about Brian Wilson's genius, we're talking in the past tense. To grimly paraphrase Nietzsche (now, *there's* someone you don't see often in Spectropop!), the rest is cowardice. Watson -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 12 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:41:42 -0000 From: Glenn Subject: Re: Grass Roots / Hamilton, Joe Frank & Reynolds Well, Austin, I was actually going to bring most of this up to *you*, since I am a big fan of the Grass Roots, and I am quite familiar with your very close associations with them. So thanks for taking care of most of the verbiage for me! One thing you said that I did NOT know was that Arkade was also offered "Don't Pull Your Love". I spoke extensively with Price and Walsh, and that was one little fact they never mentioned to me. (Perhaps they were embarrassed?) Also, the Roots' lead singer, Rob Grill, told me that after the Grass Roots turned down the song - and Rob made very clear that HE was not responsible for turning down the song - he wasn't present at the time that Steve Barri played it for two other members of the group, who thought it was "too light" for the Grass Roots - Rob swears he would have green-lighted the song had he heard it - Barri offered the song to Hamilton, Joe Frank & Reynolds. I guess Rob just didn't know that Arkade had had a shot at it, too. Rob told me that the first time he heard "Don't Pull Your Love" was on the RADIO, and he instantly thought it was a smash, and knowing that Barri was working with H, JF & R, his first reaction was to get very upset, and he called up Steve Barri and asked him, "Hey, why didn't we get a shot at that song first?" At which point Barri told him, "Well, you did. I played it for Warren and Dennis, and they didn't like it!" So, if it's any consolation, you weren't the only singer upset at having passed on "Don't Pull Your Love (Out)". But, hey, you certainly have my sympathy, and I even share your disappointment, as I thought Arkade had the potential for big things. Of course, as you said, when the guy who was nicknamed "The King Midas of AM Pop" of the late 60's and early 70's (you can read my bio of him at rolls his eyes when you turn down a song, yes, you guys just might have been able to get a clue at that point. But I still understand where you were coming from, and remain sympathetic. On the other hand, that cockiness you spoke of, while it might have cheated you out of a hit, was also fully understandable. As you pointed out, Price and Walsh had already written some tremendous smashes for the Grass Roots, as well as your first charting song as Arkade, and had every reason to believe they were capable of writing more hits. And as far as I'm concerned, their song "Sing Out the Love (In My Heart)", which you recorded with them under the Arkade moniker, had all the earmarks of a smash hit, as well as a good dose of that catchy Grass Roots sound. It's simply inexplicable to me why that single didn't make it. You did a great job on the lead vocal, and Dan Walsh, who was also a very good singer, contributed some nice ad libs. Plus you had the same team in place as the Grass Roots and H,JF&R: Steve Barri co-producing; Sid Feller, who often worked with Jimmie Haskell and the Roots, arranging; and, I would guess, the very same studio musicians such as Hal Blaine, Joe Osborne, etc. But, you may be forgetting this: Arkade also had the seeds of its own doom in place whether they scored a hit or not. Because unlike you, Price and Walsh were not willing to tour to support the group. They didn't want to uproot themselves from their homes and families in L.A., and were really content to stay behind the scenes. You, on the other hand, had much stronger ambitions of being a pop star, and were willing to put the energy behind it. And fortunately for you, and for all of us fans of yours, you eventually made that happen. Now, before I get to the songs you wrote for the Grass Roots, I'd just like to mention a personal favorite of mine of one of your songs, released under your name - and that is "Life Is For Living", which was also released on Dunhill, also produced by Steve Barri (and ditto etc. etc. for all the other Grass Roots credits), with the exception being that the song was your own composition. And except for the female backing vocals, "Life Is For Living" practically sounded more like the Grass Roots than the Grass Roots themselves! Those HORNS, man!!! And such a catchy, upbeat tune! I think that may be my favorite thing you ever did. Now, on to the songs you wrote for the Grass Roots. As the curator of the world's premiere Grass Roots site (all modesty aside), I can tell you not only that your song with Chris Welch, "One Word", was on the Grass Roots' "Move Along" album, but is also one of the most beloved songs on that album by many, many fans. It is the song I probably get the most comments about from that album, and also the one song about which, more than any other Roots album track, a lot of people ask, "Why on earth wasn't this a single?" Had it been a single, you may have secured yourself a very significant hit with the Grass Roots. It's a shame that it wasn't put out as a single, because I am very much with all those other fans who feel that "One Word" was a great song! I know that you did release your own version of it as a single, on Chelsea, I believe, and that, unfortunately, it didn't make it. I felt that the Grass Roots' arrangement of it was a little "punchier" than yours, but you did fine work on the lead vocal. Speaking of "arrangement", I'd just like to happily note here that it was the very same Jimmie Haskell who arranged all of the Grass Roots hits that arranged the strings on your own smash, "Something's Wrong With Me". And he did, I think you'll agree with me, a very exceptional job. Finally, on to "Stealing Love In The Night", which, with all this talk about parenthetical titles we've been having in the group, you might be able to explain to me why it was released as "Stealin' Love (In the Night)". As you said, it was the very last thing the Grass Roots released on Dunhill. Now, once again, you have informed me of a situation I didn't know about. It was always my assumption that the Grass Roots were dropped from Dunhill BECAUSE that song was their third single in a row that wasn't a hit, and that they then signed with Haven. But your information about them having already signed to the new label when the single was released puts it in a very different light. So, with no hope of an album to follow the single, I guess Dunhill dropped all promotion. And with the Grass Roots on a two-year losing streak, their single certainly needed the promotion at the time. Haven certainly went all-out on getting behind their first Grass Roots single, "Mamacita", which managed to chart but was stopped cold when it was banned by about half the pop radio stations in the U.S., something that no amount of promotion could fight. But back to "Stealin' Love" - damn - that really was an unlucky break for you! IMO, the song had much of the charm and appeal of some of the Grass Roots' biggest hits, and certainly would have had a good chance of being a hit had it been pushed. I even tried to convince Gary Stewart of Rhino Records to include it on their Grass Roots Anthology set, but he was of the opinion that nothing on Dunhill after "Love Is What You Make It" (by our old friends Price and Walsh) was worth including. For the record, I strongly disagree. So, yes, I feel really bad for you that the events at the time precluded "Stealin' Love (In the Night)" from getting its shot at becoming a bona fide hit. As the old boxing saying goes, it "coulda been a contender". And you thought YOU were verbose? Then again, I'm a songwriter, too. Just not a pro. And a very Happy New Year to you and everyone else at Spectropop. Glenn Golden Grass - The Grass Roots Fan Page -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 13 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 19:47:25 -0000 From: Jeff Lemlich Subject: Re: If I Were the Carpenters. . . . Frumento wrote: > I always thought "Someday My Prince Will Come" would have made a > great commercial for a one-hour photo operation... "some day my > prints will come..." I was waiting for some loan company to rewrite "Alone" by Heart as... (drumroll)... "how do I get you a loan"... Jeff Lemlich -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 14 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 11:53:39 -0800 (PST) From: Stewart Mason Subject: Re: (Why) Brackets Glenn writes: > Fact is, songwriters have a right to call their songs > whatever they want, and copyright them that way. And > get PAID for them that way. So, in most cases, record > companies DO NOT have the right to change a song > title, without specific permission from the songwriter > and/or publisher, but they have a right to append > parenthetical phrases to them, or even to put the real > title in brackets and substitute a more easily-recognized > title. During his Monkees days (and after), Mike Nesmith was fond of putting random titles on his songs, evocative phrases that don't actually appear anywhere in the lyrics ("Tapioca Tundra," "Papa Gene's Blues," etc.). The folks at Colgems apparently used to get rather honked off at this practice, and according to himself, once lectured him that hit songs had titles which appeared regularly in the chorus and lyrics that were "good clean fun." His response was the song "Good Clean Fun," which doesn't even have a chorus and the title of which, naturally, never appears in the lyrics. S -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 15 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 14:36:06 -0700 From: Gary Spector Subject: Re: (Why) Brackets? Hello PB, Interesting question (certainly for me). I too have wondered why they were used but never knew who to ask (until now). Looking back, I guess I could have asked my father since he was very big in the 60's and still very well known today (for other reasons now). I am sure you'll remember these titles: (The Best Part Of) Breakin' Up - The Ronettes Woman In Love (With You) - The Ronettes He Hit Me (It Felt Like A Kiss) - The Crystals (Today I Met) The Boy I'm Gonna Marry - Darlene Love (I Love You) For Sentimental Reasons - The Righteous Brothers A Love Like Yours (Don't Come Knockin' Everyday) - Ike & Tina Turner As for the best answer (so far), I think Glenn has the answer that makes the most sence (to me). Specter Not just another P.S. fan.... -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 16 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:19:19 -0000 From: Peter Kearns Subject: Re: Kim Fowley S'pop Projects wrote: > New @ S'pop Recommends > 'Impossible But True: The Kim Fowley Story' (Ace CDCHD 888) > "Parents, lock up your daughters -- Kim Fowley is back in town. > ... The fact that he was, either variously or simultaneously, a > rock'n'roll anarchist, Dadaist, hustler, B.S. artist, Sybarite, > namedropper and foole should not deter us from the realization > that Kim Fowley was also one talented mofo." (Phil Milstein) > For Phil's full review, click here: > Haha. Kim certainly was/is a personality; no doubt about it. Some of his 60s tracks are fascinating and the arrangements are great. 'Stranger In The Sky' is a good example. He's actually a very interesting lyricist too. We wrote a bunch of songs together in the 80s; the lyrics of which I'd describe as kind of bent cliches - wordy, but colourful. Peter. -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 17 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:57:59 -0000 From: Laura Pinto Subject: Re: Ron Dante Joe Nelson wrote: > About a year and a half ago, I'd seen a message in the S'pop > archives indicating that Ron was the lead singer on the Definitive > Rock Chorale's great "Mirrors of Your Mind". I contacted Ron > through a mutual friend and he said he was sorry, but he couldn't > remember the record. Damn. Hi Joe, I'm not personally familiar with that track nor have I ever seen it listed on any Ron Dante discographies, but that doesn't mean anything, nor does the fact that Ron couldn't recall it. This man literally did so much recording under so many different names (many times he didn't know what name the record[s] would be released under) that it's possible he's simply forgotten. I once sent him an MP3 of a song that obviously had him on leads, and until he heard it, he hadn't remembered it existed. Ron was a busy bee in the 60's and early 70's! Laura -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 18 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:08:41 -0600 From: Mike Dugo Subject: Latest Lance Monthly If you'd like to check out the now-posted January 2004 issue of "The Lance Monthly" that contains a lot of rare '50s and '60s photos of The Crickets, Bobby Vee, et al, in the Jerry Naylor interview, swing by IN THIS ISSUE: - Up Close with Jerry Naylor (Vocalist for Crickets in Early ‘60s; major ‘50s rock ‘n' roll pioneer – Up Close with Larry Knechtel (High-profile L.A. sessionist; past member of Bread and Duane Eddy band - An Interview with Robert Stevenson (Performed with one of Columbus, Ohio’s premier bands during the ‘60s) - Paterson’s Jump, Jive, and Harmonize (Reviews of releases by Gandalf the Grey, Massimo Aiello, The Prisoners, Blue Max, The Vivisectors, The Astroglides, and Various Artists) – The Lance Monthly Pick of the Month ("Channel Surfin with . . . The Astroglides"). Mike Dugo -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
Message: 19 Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:17:05 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Taber Subject: Re: Left Banke Michael Fishberg wrote: > Incidentally the Left Banke LPs on Mercury were not true > stereo, so it didn't matter anyway! My college roommate had a "mono" 1st Left Banke lp. about the only album he owned, and he had played it repeatedly on his parents' 1955 console with a 7 pound stylus. I discovered while listening to it on headphones that, beneath the tons of crackle, it was really stereo, and I'd swear on the beauty of "Pretty Ballerina" that it wasn't reprocessed mono. Tom Taber -------------------[ archived by Spectropop ]-------------------
SPECTROPOP - Spectacular! Retro! Pop! End

Click here to go to The Spectropop Group
Spectropop text contents © copyright 2002 Spectropop unless stated otherwise. All rights in and to the contents of these documents, including each element embodied therein, is subject to copyright protection under international copyright law. Any use, reuse, reproduction and/or adaptation without written permission of the owners is a violation of copyright law and is strictly prohibited. All rights reserved.